Rumorville: Corey Hart
by roguejim on Jul 4, 2009 12:33 PM CDT
25 comments
Busta Olney takes a look at possible Atlanta trade partners.
If the Braves were to market [Javier] Vazquez, they could just deal with the Brewers directly. Milwaukee has no need for Escobar, because the Brewers have Alcides Escobar on the rise. Milwaukee would not consider trading Ryan Braun in any deal, and more than likely Prince Fielder would be out of the question (he's a Boras client and the Braves have already been down the path of a Boras-client-type of rental with Mark Teixeira, a situation that didn't pan out).
Hart would be the natural fit, although it's unclear whether he would necessarily be a significant upgrade over Francoeur, given the streaky nature of his offense. "There are times when he just looks like he has no clue," said one longtime talent evaluator. "I've seen him this season when he's looked absolutely lost." Hart, 27, is hitting .246 and nine homers, and if Milwaukee talked about a possible Hart/Vazquez swap, the Brewers would obviously have to include another really nice piece in the deal.
Corey Hart's stats are here. Javier Vazquez's stats are here.
I'm not totally convinced the Braves would require "another really nice piece." For one, Vazquez, like Doug Davis, is pitching out of his mind right now. Before this season, though, only once in Vazquez's post-Expo career had he put up a season ERA less than 4.42. For two, Vazquez is owed roughly $17 million over the rest of this season and 2010. If the Braves are getting another really nice piece, I should hope they're kicking in some cash. (If you're wondering, Hart still has 2 years of arbitration before free agency in 2012.)
In any event, I don't see a move like this particularly likely, as we would be without a right fielder, assuming Gamel can't learn right field over the all star break.
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There's a huge difference between Davis and Vasquez
not everybody that pitches really well is getting lucky. Vasquez is pitching really, really well, his ERA actually might be higher than it should be— his FIP is 2.6. He’s been really, really good for 4 years now. I’d trade Hart and something significant for him.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Jul 4, 2009 1:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Isn't Vazquez kind of like Dave Bush (only better)
In that he always underperforms his peripherals?
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Jul 4, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
C'mon
I mean, yes, his WHIP has always been good. However, under no circumstances would I call ERAs of 4.84 and 4.67 “really, really good.”
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Jul 4, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His FIPs those three years with the White Sox were (rounded) 3.8, 3.8, and 3.8
He was playing in a hitter’s park with a pretty bad defense behind him. You can choose to just look at the ERA and WHIP and deem him average but guys with extremely consistent 8:2 K:BB ratios are very rare. When I look at a pitcher, I usually go directly to the “advanced” section of his fangraphs player page, and avoid reading too much into the ERA (a lot of a pitcher’s ERA is way out of his control). I just checked out his tRAs, too— and he’s been in the very low 3s, consistently. And his stuff is even better this year, a lot more Ks.
Those two years with the Sox he had really low LOB rates. I don’t know what that’s about. I guess maybe he struggles from the stretch, but this year it’s normal.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Jul 4, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vasquez is a conundrum
His FIP suggests he’s a very good pitcher, but he has been under performing his FIP’s for so long that it might just be a “skill”.
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 5, 2009 3:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d assume they’d probably bring one of the Sounds OF’s up, platoon Gerut and Cat (blech) and send Gamel down to try to figure RF out as fast as he possibly can.
by warwick5s on Jul 4, 2009 2:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Gillespie could work
I think his rightfield throwing arm would be an issue, tough. I think Gillespie is going to be similar to the way Hart has been the past year and a half. I wish someone would tell Brendan Katin that he should walk.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Jul 4, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if the Braves would do this, I think it’s a no-brainer, even if we included some upper-level prospect not named Alcides. i think it’s becoming more clear that we’re going to keep Prince around and try to win before he’s a free agent, and with Braun, Prince, Gamel in the middle of the order, we can get by without Hart’s league average wOBA. seems like he’s the kind of player that Atlanta loves.
"Nothing is working right now with a lot of the guys. We're trying to see pitches and see what we can do. ... I'm not going to sit there and walk, though. I'll eventually find it, and hopefully we'll still be in it." -Corey Hart
by baumann on Jul 4, 2009 4:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How much of a prospect would we have to include with Hart to get Vazquez?
Would Irabarren be about right or are we going up to Taylor Green or even Salmone level before the deal gets done?
Personnally I think that Vazquez is worth going for even if it takes Salmone and Hart, Combined with Gallardo he would give us a 1-2 at the top of the rotation that would allow us to compete with anybody in the NL.
by Saltire on Jul 5, 2009 7:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I've been wondering that, as well...
I suppose Iribarren is a bit too non-prospecty by now, but I also don’t have a good feel for how much it would take – the aforementioned Gillespie perhaps, on the theory that he’s still got upside and might graduate to becoming Hart’s successor for Atlanta eventually? (We could use him, too, of course, but we’re probably still fairly strong in bats that could be converted to OF duty even without him.) Or if they want a pitcher in return – Wily Peralta maybe? Or not advanced enough? Of course we’re pretty bare in upper-minors pitching prospects right now…
I definitely agree with the posters in the other thread that Vasquez for Hart straight-up would be the type of deal you do immediately.
by Zeyes on Jul 5, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I'd trade just about any other pitcher in the system before Peralta
It was a great selection of awesome.
by battlekow on Jul 5, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would you do Hardy AND Hart for Vazquez and, say, Francouer?
by warwick5s on Jul 5, 2009 12:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
if they wouldn't just take Hart and wanted someone else that was major league ready or close, that is...
by warwick5s on Jul 5, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they were picking up much of Vazquez's salary (instead of sending Francoeur, that is), perhaps.
From what I recall reading earlier in the season, the Braves are pretty close to budget already though, so I’m not sure if that would be a go.
by Zeyes on Jul 5, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Francouer adds nothing to the deal
In fact, he detracts value, because he’ll cost $3M next year while being below replacement level.
It was a great selection of awesome.
by battlekow on Jul 5, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guarantee the Braves would
It is what it is.
by coolig on Jul 5, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Francouer is really, really bad
The Braves don’t really need Hardy because of Escobar at short.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Jul 5, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny how that sentence applies to both the Braves and Brewers
It was a great selection of awesome.
by battlekow on Jul 5, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oddly enough, that goes back to the original blurb
I probably wasn’t the only one to think Olney had mistakenly typed “Escobar” when he meant “Hardy” here:
Milwaukee has no need for Escobar, because the Brewers have Alcides Escobar on the rise.
And even after skimming TFA it took me a moment to register that somebody actually proposed trading Yunel Escobar to us…
by Zeyes on Jul 5, 2009 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
St. Louis
|
91 | 71 | .561 | 0 | Lost 6 |
|
Chicago
|
83 | 78 | .515 | 7.5 | Lost 1 |
|
Milwaukee
|
80 | 82 | .493 | 11 | Won 3 |
|
Cincinnati
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78 | 84 | .481 | 13 | Won 2 |
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Houston
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74 | 88 | .456 | 17 | Lost 3 |
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Pittsburgh
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62 | 99 | .385 | 28.5 | Lost 2 |
(updated 11.7.2009 at 4:17 AM CST)
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