Thursday's Frosty Mug
by Kyle Lobner on Sep 17, 2009 9:21 AM CDT
in News
85 comments
Dave Bush will take the mound in a few hours in the finale of a four game series at Wrigley, but once that's over the starting rotation is in a pretty thorough state of flux. Manny Parra's MRI came back inconclusive, so Chris Narveson will start tomorrow, and will presumably fill Parra's spot until he's ready to return. Mike Burns has also been recalled to provide an extra arm in the bullpen.
That arm, as it turns out, may be needed sooner than later. The Brewers are considering shutting down Yovani Gallardo, who has already thrown over 180 innings this season, about 160 more than he threw last season (FanShot). Gallardo doesn't seem to like the idea, but the team is discussing it with his agent, former MLB starter Bobby Witt. If Gallardo is shut down, either Burns or Josh Butler could be called upon to start Sunday.
Meanwhile, Braden Looper didn't pitch well but got enough run support to win anyway last night. After the game, he mentioned getting hit in the back by a line drive during BP on Tuesday, and said it started to tighten up around the third inning. Looper allowed another home run last night to bring his season total to 35, and now stands just one behind Wayne Franklin for the franchise record.
We got a brief glimpse into the job security of Brewer management yesterday, as Mark Attanasio said speculation that Doug Melvin could be fired was "ridiculous", and said Melvin will make the decision on whether or not to retain Ken Macha for 2010. If the team isn't winning, they're probably both gone around the All Star Break next season.
When discussing the Brewers' options with Prince Fielder, we tend to stick to two possibilities: trade now or lose him later. MLB Trade Rumors takes a look at the third possibility: a long term deal, and suggests that a deal wrapping up Fielder's age 26-32 seasons might not be a bad idea. Off the top of my head, I'd guesstimate that Fielder would want around $100-105 million to sign a six year deal at this point, assuming $10 million for 2010, $15 for 2011 and $18-20 for the four remaining years.
By the way, Fielder is featured in a pretty cool graphic as part of Beyond the Box Score's Graph of the Day.
Speaking of contracts, Jon Heyman talked to an unnamed major league GM and an unnamed agent, and they all expect Trevor Hoffman to get a one year deal worth between $7 and $8 million this offseason. I was more interested in their expectation for Mike Cameron, but he wasn't mentioned.
Meanwhile, Alcides Escobar will still be cheap next season and he showed Brewer fans a lot to be excited about last night. On top of picking up career highs in hits (4) and RBI (3), Escobar was also exceptional defensively. Here's a video highlight of the double play he turned in the eighth, if you missed it or just want to see it again.
Let's check in with the Baseball World Cup:
- Nick Bucci started and pitched 4.1 shutout innings for Team Canada yesterday as they beat Mexico 4-2. Bucci has yet to allow a run in 9.1 innings of World Cup action. The Canadian team takes on Japan today in what could amount to an elimination game: The top four teams from their pool advance to the next round, and Canada, Japan and Mexico are all tied for fourth at 1-2.
- 2009 Huntsville Star David Welch is also having a pretty good tournament for the Australian team. He's struck out 17 batters in 12 innings of work and a poll on the World Cup home page lists him as a candidate for the tournament's most outstanding pitcher.
- For a whole lot more World Cup stuff, you can check out The Daily Report.
Just one transaction note to pass along today:
White Sox: Released Bartolo Colon.
Beyond the Box Score is working on a pretty cool feature: DiamondView Composite Player Evaluation is designed to project a player's abilities into a single image that's accurate and easy to read and understand. They've still got some bugs to work out but it's a fascinating idea, and looking at pretty graphs beats actually working most days.
As I've mentioned previously, last night was Hal McCoy Night in Cincinnati, celebrating the long career of the Hall of Fame beat writer as he heads into retirement. Here's the video package the Reds prepared for the occasion, and Reds Internal Affairs has pictures of the festivities.
On this day in 1976, the Brewers celebrated Hank Aaron Day at County Stadium. Aaron, who went 0-for-5 in the game, would appear in five more games as a Brewer before retiring after the season.
Happy birthday today to Thad Bosley, who appeared in 42 games for the 1981 Brewers and turns 53 today.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
Drink up.
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TH/CC
The Hardicort/Cappy thing is just hilarious… great find
by Saberilliterate on Sep 17, 2009 9:36 AM CDT reply actions
Good story Rubie --
clap… clap…. clap..
Taking Shallowness to New Depths...
by Fatter than Joey on Sep 17, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
I only knew of Blefary because he had a BABIP of .198 in 1968
The lowest ever by someone with 3.1 PA/G (modern batting title qualifier). Looking him up is when I noticed he moved to catcher mid-career.
You know me Al.
Oh, so that's why you knew of him? Because of an obscure BABIP record?
I guess you’re not so terrifying after all. Everyone knows that.
More Blefary
AL Rookie of the Year. Also caught a no-hitter. I remember him for his ROY. And because he wore eye black.
Awesome Stuff!
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
your requested analysis is posted
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Fielder
I would be willing to buy out the first 2 years of FA – not sure about 4 years of FA though
by Saberilliterate on Sep 17, 2009 9:36 AM CDT reply actions
If
Teixiera can get $180 Million, Fielder should be able to get????
Take away the defense, the fact that hes almost assured of being a DH, Id say hes in line for at least $140 million over 7 years.
Can you imagine what Fielder puts up in that band box in NY? I wonder if the Yankees make a big push this offseason to trade for him, or if they just wait out his FA years.
Who would accept Austin Jackson/Phil Hughes and a lower level prospect (maybe Andrew Brackman) for him? Yankees wont give up Montero or Chamberlain (might not even let go of Jackson).
Maybe
You add another player. Hughes has actually had a nice year this year out of the pen. The thinking being that the Brewers would bring him back to the rotation. If only they hadnt dropped Bill Castro!
so you would like to send fielder to the Yanks for
an outfield prospect, a back-end rotation guy, and a low minors pitching prospect? No. Not enough return
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Just throwing out ideas
Unlike other analyses, this is one that I have not fully thought out. But I think that if Hughes were moved back to a starting rotation he could be a #2 type of guy.
Yes there is a reason -
Their names were CC Sabathia and AJ Burnett
by Saberilliterate on Sep 17, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
on the plus side
we wouldn’t have to hear about those nonsense Joba rules anymore. Should we call them the Gallardo Rules here?
The expected return for prince should be Teixeira-trade like, and I’m not sure there is a fit in the majors there.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
It was a while ago
But I had posted something along those lines. The tricky part is that when that trade was made, the Rangers recieved 4 B graded prospects for Tex. So even though 3 of those guys have turned out huge, none of them were big time, top 10 prospects at the time of the trade.
Taken away whats already been said about the defensive issues (percetption vs reality), I think it could be done with 3 B graded and one othe player for Fielder.
I think the Braves fit well, Hanson/Freeman/one other pitcher would do it, but they wont bite from that apple twice, or part with Hanson.
why would the brewers settle for less return?
I’m confused. the trade when it went down for Tex was a mid-season deal. Why would the Brewers send Prince for two years to a team and not get a similar package back? The Braves gave up their top 3 prospects (though yes, not elite at that time) for Tex along with a good low level prospect (that turned out to be the best player they got back) and a minor league reliever. I say nothing less than that is fair.
And if no team meets the demand, then you have prince in the 4 hole for at least the next 2 years.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
There is
A slight difference in money still owed. To the tune of about $7 million depending on what Fielder is going to be able to get in that 3rd Arb year.
The Tex trade, apart from Saltamacchia, all had guys at least 2 to 3 years away. And Salty has turned out to be the worst piece of the deal.
Im not saying what the Brewers could get, if a similar deal is done, would be worth less than the Tex deal. But were kind of rose colored glasses by the deal right now because Feliz looks to be an elite level closer, Andrus looks to be a solid SS, and a bottom of the rotation SP, as well as a C who had tons of potential. But at the time, all 4 of those guys were B graded prospects.
A lot of times those guys in A ball arent really in a lot of top 100 lists because they still have a ways to go. Would it make you any happier if this trade were made with a team that had 3 guys in A ball right now, with a lot of potential coming to the Brewers, as well as one MLB ready pitcher?
I would be extremely pleased with a deal like that, even if it takes 2 years for those other pieces to materialize.
Chamberlain?
Why not throw Sudetenland in as well?
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Sep 17, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I lol'd
Brewers Baseball and other assorted nonsense (mostly the assorted nonsense) at my blog, What's a Tararrel?
You dont think the Yankees
Would trade a hard throwing pitcher who has yet to prove himself, for a guy that hit for power like Fielder?
He thinks the Yankees have given up on peace in our time
Brewers Baseball and other assorted nonsense (mostly the assorted nonsense) at my blog, What's a Tararrel?
It's all apart of the mis-use of the DH in the AL
I posted this at faketeams in a similar discussion…
Let’s go over the main DH for the AL teams with Batting runs (10 runs = 1 win) as their measurement of how good they are (I’ll throw in OPS as well)
Yankees- Matsui, 18.8 Batting Runs, .875 OPS
Red Sox- Ortiz, 2.6 BR, .767 OPS
Rays Burrell, 3.7 BR, .707 OPS
Blue Jays Lind, 26.5 BR, .901 OPS
Orioles- Scott, 7.4 BR, .815 OPS
Tigers- Thames 1.1 BR, .790 OPS
Twins- Kubel 24.8 BR, .914 OPS
White Sox- Thome 13.5 BR, .864 OPS
Indians- Hafner 8.6 BR, .837 OPS
Royals- Jacobs 6.1 BR, .714 OPS
Angels Vlad 6.7 BR, .816 OPS
Rangers- A Jones, 2.9 BR, .803 OPS
Mariners- Griffey, 2.1 BR, .714 OPS
A’s Cust 6.4 BR, .766 OPS
So to review, there are only 4 teams whose DH is worth more than 1 win with his bat, and their sole duty is to hit. Parking a veteran who can’t play the field anymore is NOT an effective use of the position. So yes, in my opinion, they do not utilize their DH properly.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Actually...
Fielder rates better than Tex when it comes to fielding runs.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
And...
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Thats only because
Tex doesnt even take his glove out there with him to the field, instead opting for one of 7 different guys on the team hititng 3 run HR all day. Who needs defense with that offense?
so because his team builds leads
he’s chosen not to be good at fielding? Really??? That’s the argument you are going to go with?
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Sarcasm/Dry Humor
Comprehension fail.
God I cant believe Ive become one of those guys that types “fail” in a response.
dude
with your reputation, and woody paige-like ability to suggest ridiculous trades, yes, there is little leeway for when you are being sarcastic or serious. May I suggest the /endofsarcasm tag.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
by Hyatt on Sep 17, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Never heard of this one...
We were awarded a base last night, and the announcer said it was an E2, the catcher trapped the ball with his mask. Macha had to come and point it out to the ump. Since the invention of the Jumbotron hasn’t reached the north side of chicago I didn’t see a replay. What was up with that?
by thefreewheelin76 on Sep 17, 2009 9:56 AM CDT reply actions
It basically the equivilant of throwing your glove...
You can’t use your uniform or chuck your glove at a batted ball – runners are awarded bases – fielders are awarded errors…
Taking Shallowness to New Depths...
by Fatter than Joey on Sep 17, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Rule 7.05(j)
I posted the text in the gamethread but Fatter than Joey has the gist of it.
You know me Al.
It's one of the only pieces of baseball rules trivia that I know:
If a fielder throws his glove at a fair ball and makes contact, you get three bases. I’d imagine that dates to the days when the outfield walls were 500 ft away, and the ball would roll forever if it got over the outfielder’s head.
I've seen someone do it recently, but I don't remember when.
"The reports are that he is getting better. The definition of better is nebulous."
by Kyle Lobner on Sep 17, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
That double play clip was nice...
Lopez actually showed some good range by getting over to it. I guess last night was one of those nights he decided to show some hustle in the field.
The Ivy
The highlight after the double play (thanks for the link KL!) is Lopez hitting a double over Fukudome’s head and having it role into the ivy. If it were any other ball park, Escobar wouldn’t easily scored having rounded third. Instead, the ivy eats the ball and Escobar is sent back to 3rd base. Do the umpires have the ability to award home plate in that case and chose not to or is it a hard-fast rule like the ground rule double?
Seems to me like they should just cut down the ivy and play in a baseball stadium and not an arboretum.
Correct me if I'm wrong
But I’m pretty sure any ball that bounces on the field and then becomes unplayable (bounces into the stands, gets stuck somewhere, taken by Nicholas Cage) is a ground rule double.
"The reports are that he is getting better. The definition of better is nebulous."
by Kyle Lobner on Sep 17, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Surprisingly there are specific rules for what's in-play and what's not for each stadium...
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/umpires/ground_rules.jsp
For Wrigley…
Chicago Cubs – Wrigley Field
OUTFIELD AREA
* Fair bounding ball striking railing or screen attached to bleacher wall and rebounding onto playing field: In Play.
* Fair bounding ball lodges in screen attached to bleacher wall: Two Bases.
* Fair batted ball lodges in vines on bleacher wall: Two Bases.
* Fair ball enters vines on bleacher wall and rebounds onto playing field: In Play.
* Fair ball lodges in or under grates in left or right field: Two Bases.
BULLPEN AREA
* Ball lodging on, under or in the bullpen seating area: Out of Play.
* Ball enters the bullpen seating area and rebounds out of the seating area: In Play.
Right
They’re specifically laid out, but you could generalize it with what I said: If a ball bounces in play and then is no longer playable, it’s two bases.
"The reports are that he is getting better. The definition of better is nebulous."
by Kyle Lobner on Sep 17, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
how dare you
wrigley is a HISTORIC MONUMENT TO BASEBALL
/concrete falls on head, killing instantly
/is dragged into the darkness by a swarm of 50lb rats
by warwick5s on Sep 17, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
2B Felipe Lopez
RF Jody Gerut
LF Ryan Braun
1B Prince Fielder
CF Mike Cameron
3B Mat Gamel
C Mike Rivera
SS Alcides Escobar
RHP Dave Bush
replace Lopez with Weeks
and Cameron with Hart (Hart in RF, Gerut in CF) and I’d bet that’s 2010’s lineup
Possible April 9, 2010 lineup??
One of many, many possibilities, but after Hart, Hardy and McGehee get traded for pitching, this is your regular lineup, with Bush being your #4.
Maybe a long shot, but it could happen.
Hey, a Mat Gamel sighting.
Guess that means he’s found his groove in BP. Or that Macha let Randolph make out the line-up.
With the way Escobar has been hitting...
you’d think they’d move him to the #2 spot. Then again, maybe they want to keep him in the #8 spot to continue getting production out of the bottom half of the lineup… or maybe they just want to let him stay where he is… why mess with success?
He is providing protection for Mike Rivera
by Saberilliterate on Sep 17, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I was thinking...
I can’t see Moustache trading McGehee. Be it Scottie Po, Turnbow, or whoever else we catch lightning in a bottle from, we tend to trade them a year or two too late.
Counterpoint: Nelson Cruz, our erstwhile minor league player of the year, is OPSing .883 for the Rangers, with 32 home runs and 19 stolen bases (!) thus far.
So maybe it’s just the we suck at evaluating talent.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Cruz did jack until his age 27 season...
are we supposed to keep everyone around in case they at some point decide to live up their potential? We already had that spot taken on the team with Weeks.
Exactly.
The deal was…
Cordero, Mench, Nix and Julian Cordero
for
Lee and Cruz
At the time of the trade, very few people thought that it was an unfair trade. If Mench’s production didn’t take a nosedive, it wouldn’t look nearly as lopsided.
The trade itself is a different subject altogether
Although, I think I recall some transcript of Texas saying that if we wanted Mench, we’d have to give them Cruz. I think DM getting Mench was his attempt at “buying low” that totally, totally backfired.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Did jack?
He hit all throughout the minors, including the MLPOY in 2005. After 442 ABs in the majors, when a lot of players take time to figure things out, he starting tearing the cover off the ball.
If you have a track record for hitting in the minors, then yes, you get the benefit of the doubt. (By contrast, Bill Hall was well-rewarded for his breakout season, but I don’t think he had the track record in the minors to suggest that was his true ability.)
Or, be it through skillful evaluation or luck, Texas has certainly been rewarded for keeping him around.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Cruz was on waivers last spring...
any team in baseball could have picked him up for nothing.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
Stop raining on my parade.
Also, Manny Parra is a horrible pitcher and the Brewers should trade him right away. :P
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
And it wasn't a normal, out of options waiver thing
They booted him off their 40-man roster. Until the end of last year, there was nothing to show he was more than one of those guys who mashed in AAA and couldn’t translate it to MLB production. Granted he had only 500 PA in the majors at that point, but they were not very promising.
You know me Al.
But, while Podsednik wasn't very good his second year ...
He still netted Carlos Lee in a trade. That was pretty good, wasn’t it?
Ummmm
Sure, but from a selling-high perspective, he sure had more value after 2003 than in 2004, when his OPS plummeted 150 points. (Add those 150 OPS points, maybe we get more than El Caballo, or cash thrown in, etc.).
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
That would mean that the trade would have had to happened a year earlier...
which I think is a pretty big assumption that either franchise was ready to make that trade.
no, that's true
This is assuming that there was a market the previous year. I’m assuming there was, but who knows?
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Too late?
How was the Podsednik trade made too late? Heck, it got Lee… doesn’t seem too bad.
Turnbow? I don’t think anyone expected him to go off the rails as badly as he did. In the end, he wasn’t traded… he was released. He’s not even in baseball anymore after getting shelled with the Rangers Triple-A affiliate earlier this season.
Sure
It got Lee, though what you get back in return probably isn’t the best way to judge a player’s worth on the market. (After all, Carlos Lee was making some pretty good coin then; salary surely came into play when the trade went down.)
As far as Turnbow goes, Milwaukee was his third organization, and he was released by Anaheim before we got him for nothing. I guess there are stories about castoffs being picked up for free and then becoming perennial all-stars and having productive careers, but it seems far more likely that you’re getting an aberration, and you should capitalize accordingly, if you can.
I picture DM getting an email about a princess of Nigeria and her fortune, and Doug leans back in his chair and thinks, “hmmm, maaaybe….”
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Now that would be an interesting list...
players that were released by a team, then went on to having productive careers.
BTW – You could also include Bill Hall.
Yeah
Hall would be a great example - it’s hard not to root for him, and I know I was caught up in his success after his big season, but yeah, if you’re a GM, you have to be equal parts pleased and skeptical.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
It would be
How many Joe Winkelsases are there out there, who might have retired a year or two before hitting it big?
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Cincinnati
|
57 | 46 | .553 | 0 | Won 2 |
|
St. Louis
|
56 | 46 | .549 | 0.5 | Lost 1 |
|
Milwaukee
|
48 | 55 | .466 | 9 | Lost 2 |
|
Chicago
|
46 | 56 | .450 | 10.5 | Lost 2 |
|
Houston
|
42 | 59 | .415 | 14 | Won 2 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
36 | 65 | .356 | 20 | Lost 1 |
(updated 7.30.2010 at 4:51 AM CDT)
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
