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Around SBN: Are The Orioles Bad Or Unlucky With Their Young Pitching?

The team offered Todd Coffey $1.7 million - he's seeking $2.45 million.
They offered Corey Hart $4.15 million - he's seeking $4.8
They offered Dave Bush $4.125 million - he's seeking $4.45
They offered Carlos Villanueva $800,000 - he's seeking $1.075 million.

Also - Carlos Gomez's deal is worth $1.1 million.

about 2 years ago Newavatar_tiny Kyle Lobner 40 comments 0 recs  | 

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Reading the comments on the JS Blog. Made it to #4. need a drink

Follow: @mykenk. Read thoughts: http://mhenk.blogspot.com.

by Mykenk on Jan 19, 2010 3:58 PM CST reply actions  

Why would you do that?

They’re so easy to avoid…

That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.

by Kyle Lobner on Jan 19, 2010 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

But if you're looking for a good laugh

the JS comments are the best place to go

"A D+ Grade? That must have been a Wittardo grade"- @73_MC

by BrewHaHeather on Jan 19, 2010 8:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh man....

You aren’t kidding, the first 3 so no one else has to go over there:

“Not Good”
“Why even let Villanueva pitch in a Brewer uniform ever again, he’s terrible.”
“Corey Hart REALLY believes he deserves a raise over last year?”

And then a debate about capitalism breaks out. Good times.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Jan 19, 2010 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Based on those submissions ...

I don’t think anybody’s going to a hearing.

by Rubie Q on Jan 19, 2010 4:00 PM CST reply actions  

Probably not.

I always underestimate the power of the FA market to cancel out actual performance. In my head, I imagine a club making a “this guy sucks!” argument, and I never bother to think it through to the part where the arbitrator thinks: “yes, but you offered him arbitration, so must not suck that much, and even if he does, sucky RF make 4.5 million in this league.”

Think Hart’s wife ever tells him he’s s dumbass for turning down the multi-year contract offer he got from the Brewers before they found out that he had an aversion to trying to improve himself as a ballplayer? I suppose without knowing the figures, we’ll never really know if it was a dumb decision.

What begins in fear usually ends in folly.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 19, 2010 5:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Not too bad

I had guessed:

Coffey: $2M
Bush: $4.25M
Hart: $4M
Villanueva: $1M

I’m guessing tcyoung will stop over here—if you do can you post a link to your estimates? I thought I had it bookmarked, but I guess I don’t.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Jan 19, 2010 4:12 PM CST reply actions  

I just updated the numbers in this link, but I believe this is what I had previously:

Gerut: $2MM
Weeks: $3.5MM
Gomez: $1MM
Hart: $4.5MM
Bush: $4.5MM
Coffey: $2MM
Villanueva: $1MM

So, I was high on my original projections for Weeks and Bush, but that was kind of the idea when i made these predictions. I didn’t want to overestimate the amount of money we’d have available this offseason.

Overall, I’d say we both did a pretty good job. You were damn, near perfect, nice work.

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Jan 19, 2010 4:21 PM CST up reply actions  

As far as that link goes,

Here it is

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Jan 19, 2010 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Excellent, thank you sir

I really need to put my info into a googlesheet.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Jan 19, 2010 4:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Only reason I did it was so other people could play around with open spots

at SP, C, CL, and OF. It was pretty interesting when people started adding Schilling..

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Jan 19, 2010 4:25 PM CST up reply actions  

And to you as well!

I’m a little shocked that the Hart number is as high as it is on the club’s side, though.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Jan 19, 2010 4:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Thoughts

Todd Coffey better not end up getting north of $2 million, especially since the team has Hawkins to fill the durable 8th inning guy role and a bullpen that is already overcrowded.

If the Brewers are seriously banking on adding another starter (Davis/Washburn type) should they just get rid of Bush? You know they’re going to keep Suppan in the rotation, and Bush hasn’t been worth even $4 million in years.

Hart/Villanueva I’m fine with.

Ryan Braun: He loves it.

by SRB on Jan 19, 2010 5:00 PM CST reply actions  

Yes, if they get another starter, then I think they can get rid of Bush.

There won’t be room on the 25 man anyway, and Parra/Bush are out of options. Sure, you could get rid of Suppan, but that doesn’t save you any money.

I like Bush, but if we can get a better pitcher they should drop Bush. They have to, however, hold onto him as long as possible in case there is an injury in ST.

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Jan 19, 2010 5:13 PM CST up reply actions  

It might not save them money

but I would rather have the best pitcher on the team, whoever that is. Suppans contract is wasted money either way.

by NoahJ on Jan 19, 2010 5:45 PM CST up reply actions  

That's not the point. We'd all love to have all the best players if cost isn't an issue.

I’m not saying a DD or a Washburn is a ton better than Bush, but if we have the option to go out and get, say, Ben Sheets, and we need $4MM, I think it’s worth it to drop Bush and keep Suppan around.

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Jan 19, 2010 11:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Bush

Bush was worth $4 million in 2008 and 2006 for sure and probably even in 2007 (he had some real bad luck on hits that year). I’m not sure why everyone underrates him so much. He’s not even close to being as bad a pitcher as Suppan.

by kingcharlesxii on Jan 20, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

HART

 hello brew crew posters. a giants fan, and 1st time poster here, i’m wondering why all the negativity towards hart. i get that last year was a bad year statistically and injury wise. i believe he’s still only 27, right ? is it an attitude thing , or an effort thing ? also feel free to ask anything giant related, if at all interested. thanks.

by giantdonkey on Jan 19, 2010 8:15 PM CST reply actions  

I think it's a regression thing.

All of sudden, every single pitcher started exploiting the exact same hole in Hart’s hitting game – the slider away. And even though he had to have seen it coming pretty much every at-bat, he failed to adjust, even given a year and a half.

by Cheeseandcorn on Jan 19, 2010 8:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Couple things

I don’t think most people on this blog are all that negative towards him, rather disappointed that he has fallen off as a player the last two years since a promising start to his career.

Any additional animosity is likely stems from his decision to complain about the fans in September 2008, a month when he put up a .173/.192/.245 line, helping fuel a Brewers collapse down the stretch


“Actually, it felt more like a home game than playing in Miller Park,” said Hart. "We didn’t hear the boos that we sometimes here at home. That’s the way it goes. Everybody’s expecting (the team) to win. I guess they have a reason to be frustrated because we haven’t been winning.


“It’s not a lack of hustle or effort. A guy makes an error, a guy strikes out and you hear your home town booing you. It makes you ready to get out of there and go somewhere else for awhile. I think we’re all looser here.”

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Jan 19, 2010 8:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Don't forget the crack he made about the fans not coming out to support the team during Cubs series...

… and worst of all, his disdain for the notion that he should occasionally take a walk if they won’t pitch to him.

What begins in fear usually ends in folly.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 20, 2010 7:08 AM CST up reply actions  

I keep trying to think of a way to add to what Supertramp said,

but I can’t. He summed it up perfectly. Hart got off to such a good start to his career, tanked at the absolute worst time and hasn’t really recovered.

Personally, I try very hard to not be too negative about Hart. He was breaking into the majors just as I was becoming a Brewers fan and he became one of my favorite players. But waiting and hoping for him to return to his former level of play is frustrating.

"A D+ Grade? That must have been a Wittardo grade"- @73_MC

by BrewHaHeather on Jan 19, 2010 9:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Not a big Hart fan..

Full disclosure. He was better then the junk we had in the outfield, but I’ve grown sour on him.

1) When he has plate discipline he’s a pretty decent batter. But he likes to hack.. at everything. Just throw him 3 sliders low and away he’ll chase a lot of them. By a lot, I mean all of them. Then he’ll fail to adjust for it for months.

2) For as fast as he is, he sure doesn’t seem to have great instinct on batted balls. He should be a great RF with great range, but he kind of stands like a Deer in a headlight before figuring it out where it was hit.

3) For as fast as he is, he sure kind of sucks on the basepads.

He’s got tools, but he seems to not be able to put them together very well. And for the price/performance question, he better start to turn it around. Fans voting him into the 07 AS game kind of borked us now. And yes, I voted like nuts for him.

by SgtClueLs on Jan 19, 2010 9:42 PM CST up reply actions  

"but he kind of stands like a Deer in a headlight"

I see what you did there. Nice.

Get out of my dreams and into my Chuckie Carr
-Molitorfan 12/23/09

by Michael M on Jan 19, 2010 11:47 PM CST up reply actions  

thanks

 sounds like he’s falling into the same batting habits of a guy we’re familiar with here, named rowand. what the hell happened to swinging at strikes ? at least hart is 27, and not 33 or whatever rowand is. anyway, i hope he gets it going again, he should be a really good player.

by giantdonkey on Jan 19, 2010 11:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Now, onto the part where we ask you questions about the Giants:

1) Barry Zito seemed to have a much better year last year than the past few. Do you think that will continue?

2) Will Barry Bonds ever get into the Hall of Fame?

3) Does Tim Lincecum ever come over to your house just to hang out and teach you some new pitches?

4) How deep is the water in RF?

5) Will the Giants win the NL West?

6) If you’re named the Giants, why aren’t the players bigger? Are they just wearing baggy clothes to make themselves look normal sized? Do they get to use bigger bats?

7) Travis Ishikawa: Is he as racially confused as his name suggests?

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Jan 20, 2010 12:08 AM CST up reply actions  

Travis Ishikawa:

Best name since Vladimir Guerrero.

by Rubie Q on Jan 20, 2010 9:13 AM CST up reply actions  

zito

 think of him as the left-handed suppan, with a worse salary.

by giantdonkey on Jan 20, 2010 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

I thought Zito

was pretty decent in 2009 — certainly nowhere as bad as Suppan

Taking shallowness to new depths -- FtJ's blog

by Fatter than Joey on Jan 20, 2010 12:23 PM CST up reply actions  

he was..

 suprisingly decent in 09. read down below to my other giants comments, you’ll see i expect him to return to his previous level of suck.

by giantdonkey on Jan 20, 2010 12:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Forgot to mention

He has the worlds worst at bat music. And it’s even worse then Jody Geruts.. that’s saying something.

by SgtClueLs on Jan 20, 2010 8:17 AM CST up reply actions  

Jody Gerut has sweet at bat music, and you know it, Sarge!

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Jan 20, 2010 8:19 AM CST up reply actions  

Fine fine..

Then Suppan? Some how we have to make fun of Rush.. and Canada…

by SgtClueLs on Jan 20, 2010 9:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Didn't Suppan use The Who for his music?

I recall Baba O’Riley

"A D+ Grade? That must have been a Wittardo grade"- @73_MC

by BrewHaHeather on Jan 20, 2010 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

He probably recycled something from the 60s 70s or 80s

I think it’s in his contract

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Jan 20, 2010 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, we know he can't work in the 90's...

That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.

by Kyle Lobner on Jan 20, 2010 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

lol...

1. i expect zito to be awful this year. last year, he trained with brian wilson all off season with px90, or whatever that is. this off season, he’s already been seen by other fans as “soft around the middle”. i see 10 wins with a 4.85 era.

2. bonds will get into the hall. not on the first ballot, but considering he had hof credentials BEFORE even messing with the juice, i don’t see how he or clemens can be kept out. it isnt like mcgwire or sosa is a comparison. bonds has 500 sb and 9 gold gloves ?

3. timmy spends all of his time at home( or in court) in washington, or making video game covers.

4. no idea… 40 ft maybe ?

5. not unless j.sanchez and bumgarner take leaps forward, which makes the staff almost unhittable (sans zito). the bullpen will be solid. wait til the NL gets a good look at runzler, who has b. wagner like stuff.

6. you gonna tell me molina is not giant ?

7. i have no explaination. i could go biography surfing, but i’m too lazy.

by giantdonkey on Jan 20, 2010 1:29 AM CST reply actions  

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