Wednesday's Frosty Mug
by Kyle Lobner on Jan 6, 2010 8:58 AM CST
in News
66 comments
Some things to read while getting thirsty.
The Brewers named their minor league staff yesterday and Tom Haudricourt has the full rundown, if you're curious. There's not a lot of note, but Adam McCalvy has a look at the biggest moves: the additions of former big leaguers Darnell Coles and Reggie Williams to the player development staff, the hiring of former Red Sox pitching coach Rich Gale to fill the same capacity in Nashville, and the decision to switch managers Mike Guerrero (Brevard Co. to Huntsville) and Bob Miscik (Huntsville to Brevard Co.).
Yesterday, I mentioned predictions that the Brewers would sign Jarrod Washburn, Doug Davis or Jon Garland before spring training. If it's going to be Washburn they're going to have to hurry, as he's reportedly received an offer from the Twins and is expected to decide by the end of the week.
In the minors: Minor League Baseball Prospects ranked three Brewers among their top 100 prospects for 2010: Brett Lawrie (19th), Alcides Escobar (23rd) and Mat Gamel (77th). I'm not sure if people are high on Lawrie or low on Escobar, but that's the second time I've seen Lawrie ranked above him this week (John Sickels was the other).
Speaking of prospect rankings, we're just about ready to launch the 2010 BCB Community Prospect Rankings. Check back at 4 today to cast your vote for prospect #1. In the meantime, don't forget to vote for the final pitcher on our BCB All Decade Team.
Around baseball:
Astros: Signed pitcher Josh Banks to a minor league deal.
Braves: Signed Eric Hinske to a one year deal.
Cardinals: Signed Matt Holliday to a seven year deal worth $120 million.
Mariners: Signed outfielder Franklin Gutierrez to a four year deal worth $20 million, buying out his three arbitration seasons and his first year of free agency, and acquired Casey Kotchman from the Red Sox for Bill Hall and cash.
Indians: Signed Austin Kearns to a minor league deal.
Reds: Signed outfielder Josh Anderson to a minor league deal.
Twins: Released reliever Bob Keppel.
The BBWAA's Hall of Fame voting results will be announced at 1 pm today. Five Journal Sentinel employees had votes to cast, and you can see their votes here. Here's a quick summary:
| Player | Votes (of 5) |
| Bert Blyleven | 5 |
| Roberto Alomar, Andre Dawson, Barry Larkin and Tim Raines | 3 |
| Edgar Martinez, Mark McGwire, Jack Morris, Lee Smith and Alan Trammell | 2 |
| Don Mattingly and Fred McGriff | 1 |
One voter (Michael Hunt) cast a ballot with just one name on it (Blyleven), but at least none of them did this: Jay Mariotti cast a blank ballot. Sometimes when we discuss BBWAA votes, we act like the worst days will soon pass, and that the worst voters are nearing/past retirement and will soon be replaced. Jay Mariotti is 50, so we'll likely be waiting a while for him to leave.
Here's a scary story, thankfully with a happy ending: Reliever Luis Ayala was unharmed when armed gunmen invaded his home and attempted to kidnap him yesterday in Culiacan, Mexico. Craig Calcaterra says Culiacan is "ground zero for the current offensive by the Mexican government in its war with the cartels." If you've been following the Winter League Updates, you know it's also home to new Brewer Luis Cruz's winter league team.
If you're looking for a reason to dread the coming decade in baseball, Tim Marchman has the most pessimistic post you'll read today, listing reasons to "think the coming decade is going to be a crashing bore." If you read that and want to feel better afterwards, Jonah Keri's response is the way to go.
Happy birthday today to Scott Thorman, who was briefly a Brewer last spring and turns 28 today.
Our condolences go out today to the family of Rory Markas, former Brewer TV announcer who passed away yesterday at the age of 54. Markas had most recently worked for the Angels, and Halos Heaven has collected some of his colleagues' memories.
It has nothing to do with baseball, but the prospect of NBA Jam for the Wii might be the most exciting NBA news in decades (h/t Hyatt).
That's all I've got for you today, unless you wanted to sing the national anthem in Nashville.
Drink up.
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Thanks for the shout out
but why must you infuriate me so early in the morning by mentioning Jay Mariotti? guys like him, Michael Hunt, and Bill Platchke are responsible for the explosion of Sports Blogs to begin with. Their only purpose is for the fan base to feel good about themselves by making them think, “Hey, I’m smarter than this asshat.” And those people that think that are correct. My impending kid thinks that, and his brain isn’t fully developed yet in the womb.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Just think
Someday, Anthony Witrado might get a HOF vote. :)
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
And on that day
He’ll learn that writing Manny Ramirez on his ballot ten times still only counts as one vote.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
That day will also probably be...
Sunday, December 23, 2012
"At least we still have math on our side" - Ned Yost
Follow me on Twitter @Findthedog
Anthony Witrado is capable of learning something in the course of one day?
Don’t you think it will be like 5 years of voting before he figures that out?
Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.
Plaschke
Funny. You know, I actually went to HS with Bill Plaschke and often shake my head that a guy who even then we said “has never played the game” could end up at the LA Times and be voted national sportswriter of the year. The kid knew what he wanted…he’d sit by himself at basketball games and call play by play into a cassette recorder. But I still see the nervous nerdy kid who is more in awe of the players than anyone who possesses insight into the game. I suppose his, and those like him, have opinions as relevant as the average poster, but it amazes me that it’s their ticket to a good living.
Interesting, though one aspect scares me a little
But I still see the nervous nerdy kid who is more in awe of the players than anyone who possesses insight into the game
This is what leads the Theismans, Salisburys, and Faulks into the analyst role, and that is almost as bad.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
I'm pretty sure
he’s more hurt by this
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
That's true too
On the baseball side I’m not sure if I’m just tired of the McCarvers of the world of if they too are awful.
But NFL guys like Collinsworth and to a lesser extent Aikman (on days he has a clear head) I do respect.
For every Collinsworth and Aikman
there is 3 Merill Hodges and Mark Schalreths
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
What?
Who doesn’t like a tie knot the size of a watermelon.
Factorback!
I wish I could slap him.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Jan 6, 2010 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
Hunt
I stopped reading the JS because of him
I still play NBA Jam: Tournament Edition on our old Genesis from time to time.
Ah, the days of Penny Hardaway, Nick Anderson, and Dennis Scott. Good times.
if anyone is curious/nostalgic
Here is a listing of the old NBA Jam Rosters
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
by Hyatt on Jan 6, 2010 9:16 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's it
You may have just inspired a Sporcle quiz.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jan 6, 2010 5:19 PM CST up reply actions
Already been done.
I’m pretty sure I’ve taken that quiz.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
Yup.
I realized that as soon as I went to make it.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jan 6, 2010 9:43 PM CST up reply actions
Ditto
On SNES…it brings back the grade school memories of when I unlocked the expanded rosters.
BCB, the preferred above replacement level sarcasm supplier.
by MadJimiBrewha on Jan 6, 2010 9:42 AM CST up reply actions
another article worth reading
i don’t much care for the nba, but definitely enjoy nba jam. i geeked out on the nymag article yesterday. (not quite as much as i geeked out on nba jam, though, back in the day.)
also, this espn article is worth reading on the subject . It also suggests Jordan was in one version, which seems right because I could’ve sworn I played a version that had him in it. The wikipedia article implies it was only for him (and Payton).
by Capt Science on Jan 6, 2010 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
Huh
The Petrovic note at the end is a little creepy.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
Both Toejam and Earl disagree with you
When there is a scuffle in Ireland, there’s no need to specifically mention in the news story that alcohol was involved
by Getting Yosted on Jan 6, 2010 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
I miss Toejam and Earl
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Could I make a request
that you DON’T include Alcides Escobar in prospect voting, please? I mean he’s going to be the starting SS, I’d prefer to just rank the minors.
But, its not my ship, I’m just along for the ride.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
Agreed.
I was just about to type something similar. How can anyone possibly rank Escobar as a prospect when he’s no longer one? Maybe that explains the drop in ranking… some people aren’t voting for him anymore because they know he’s already the starting SS for the Brewers.
I'm planning on including Escobar, because he still has his "rookie" status.
I’m not planning on including Gamel for the same reason. I understand your issue with it, certainly, but technically he’s still a prospect.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
So is the working definition of prospect going to be rookie status or not?
It makes sense to make it so, but I’m in the camp that at this point I still classify Gamel as much of a prospects as Escobar in the terms of potential benefit to the team down the road. I think most people would agree that Gamel deserves prospect status and that the organizations poor use of him last year isn’t necessarily justification for removing him from consideration. I guess I would rather have our own definition of prospect than just using MLB’s rookie status or not, something along the lines of games started, yatta yatta yatta…
BCB, the preferred above replacement level sarcasm supplier.
by MadJimiBrewha on Jan 6, 2010 9:50 AM CST up reply actions
I could spend all day kicking this around in my head
But since they’re the Community Prospect Rankings, I’m going to put it to a vote. Check the front page in a few minutes.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
Posted
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
Escobar/Lawrie
In response to the question of over or under rating…
I think Lawrie is being over rated and Escobar under rated. Lawrie still has to prove himself at an advanced level. If he does well this year in AA I definitely think he is a top 25 prospect in the game. As it stands right now, he is probably in the mid 50’s to 30s range for top 100 prospects.
Escobar, on the other hand is a top 20 guy no doubt. I saw a lot of the discussion involving him on Sickels’ site, and the questions about his bat are pretty unmerited. He is an elite defender at a defense first position, and has proved he can hit at advanced levels. He is definitely the Brewers top prospect.
Agreed on both players
Lawrie might earn that that ranking later, but a year of good but not great numbers in the low minors doesn’t really warrant such a high ranking. The only reason I could see ranking Lawrie above Escobar is if Escobar is being downgraded because he is basically already a major leaguer.
"A D+ Grade? That must have been a Wittardo grade"- @73_MC
by BrewHaHeather on Jan 6, 2010 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
That depends
on whether you stress a prospect’s potential ceiling or minor league accomplishments. If you are one who tends to weight a player’s potential more heavily, I think you can make an excellent case to rank Lawrie above Escobar.
It has to be a balance between the 2
Personally, I think Escobar is one of the top prospects in the game, and if he turns out the way some think, is a perennial all star. Not much higher of a ceiling than that.
Lawrie has tons of potential because of his bat, but there are questions. Can he stick at 2B? Thats a huge if. He remains at 2B and can be slightly below average to average defensively, and his bat is what has been expected, he’s a 5 WAR, all star type player as well. But if he has to move to the OF, then his value decreases.
If youre going on upside alone Kentrail Davis, D’Vontrey Richardson or Jake Odirizzi are the top prospects. A perfect example of the big upside question is Jeremy Jeffress. Even before he laid heavily on the weed, his performance never really matched his potential, and thus he started to drop in prospect rankings.
Lawrie move to the OF
Actually, his value kinda increases. Considering that teams start 3 OFs, and there were only seven 5 WAR players last year, or a little under 8%. 2B had three 5 WAR players, a total of 10%.
I know it’s nitpicky, but it’s there.
I’ve never been too big of an Escobar fan, and I see him being a Royce Clayton type in the future. That does not scream franchise player potential, but it is a very valuable piece. Lawrie does have the potential to be a franchise type player in the Jeff Kemp mode, which is much more valuable. That’s why he’s getting my vote for #1.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
dont forget positional adjustment
If Lawrie has to move to the OF, he might not be a 5 WAR player, but a Braun like 4 or so. He definitely wont be a CF.
I wouldn't be crying over another Ryan Braun
Unless the kid decides to launch Canada’s answer to Remetee. Then there will be the opposite of rejoicing.
When there is a scuffle in Ireland, there’s no need to specifically mention in the news story that alcohol was involved
by Getting Yosted on Jan 6, 2010 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
Wouldnt it be called Remeteh then?
by backtocali on Jan 6, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
I know I did.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Agreed
It should always be a balance between the two unless you are Brian Sabean, but everyone who does evaluations are going to bring their own biases to the table when it comes to rankings. With so much subjectivity in play, you can make reasonable cases for all sorts of rankings and that’s great for discussion.
True
Building on what backtocail said above, there has to be a balance between both. I tend to value minor league accomplishments over potential, but still take both into account.
But like you said, based on potential alone, Lawrie is a better prospect than Escobar.
"A D+ Grade? That must have been a Wittardo grade"- @73_MC
by BrewHaHeather on Jan 6, 2010 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
I'm glad to see that (most of) the JS writers have some sense when it comes to Rock Raines.
Unlike Jon Heyman, who left Raines off his ballot but then wrote:
The numbers people will point to Raines’ gross totals of 808 stolen bases, 1,571 runs and 1,330 walks but especially to his .385 career on-base percentage, and I may not be able to ignore those figures in coming years. Several very worthwhile points were made and heard in the case of Raines, so worthwhile in fact that I could see myself voting "yes’’ on Raines in the future.
I just don’t understand this: “those numbers aren’t good enough this year, but they might be in future years” line of thought.
His brain will be more smart in the future.
Taking shallowness to new depths -- FtJ's blog
by Fatter than Joey on Jan 6, 2010 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
But, remember:
it’s called the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Numbers.
… because those two things are mutually exclusive, apparently. Except when it comes to Rock Raines, at some as-yet-undetermined point in the future.
I agree to a point
But why is there a 15 year window for players to get voted in then? If their numbers are good, they should get in in the first year, correct?
I think Raines is a HOF guy, but that his “numbers” relect that of a guy who has typically had to wait, and build a case.
But why is there a 15 year window for players to get voted in then?
Because people like Jon Heyman and Jay Mariotti and Michael Hunt are entrusted with votes.
by Rubie Q on Jan 6, 2010 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
I can see a few years -- as some years there are a lot of candidates.
Taking shallowness to new depths -- FtJ's blog
by Fatter than Joey on Jan 6, 2010 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
The only argument for waiting a few years is ballot strength and weakness.
This year, for example, Bert Blyleven was clearly the most popular holdover. As such, endless stuff has been written about him, and he’s been the focal point of balloting. Once he’s in, Raines may become the next “most qualified guy.”
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
Thats why there are 10 spots.
What really infuriates me about Mariotti’s comments are that there is supposedly a distinction between a 1st ballot guy, and a guy that gets into the HOF after a couple of years. As far as I know, there is no place on their HOF busts that distinguish this.
The reason for the 5 year waiting period is to put his career into proper perspective. If people don’t think that Raines, Big Mac, or Dawson aren’t HOF-ers, then don’t vote for them. But don’t tell me they are deserving, just not this year. That’s classless and minimizes their accomplishments.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Haudricourt, for one, agrees with you:
I don’t consider the Hall of Fame a fraternity that you have to pledge. In other words, if you belong in Cooperstown, you should go on your first ballot. I know many other voters don’t feel that way, but if you’re a Hall of Famer, you’re a Hall of Famer. Why some players have to wait years to get in, I don’t quite get.
awww crap
it’s the end of the world as I know it.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Michael Hunt is an idiot.
He probably put about .5 seconds of thought into his ballot.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 6, 2010 11:06 AM CST reply actions
There was probably a hanging chad on it too
who knows who he actually meant to vote for
Shane Reynolds?
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
just booked my spring training flights!
this might be the furthest ahead i’ve ever planned for anything, but had to get flights for a bachelor party in new orleans the weekend beforehand, so i just tacked this onto the end.
bachelor party, then spring training? yes, please.
maybe i’ll see some of you there?
When?
I’ll be there with ewizabeff 2nd week of March.
Cubs SS tickets are way more expensive then I would have thought, coming out to 29 bucks a seat.
2nd week of March as well
So that’s March 8-13. I like to go early, see some of the young guys and maximize the temperature difference between Phoenix and New York.
I was debating on going to the Cubs-Brewers at HoHoKam, but I’m pretty sure traffic there is just a mess.
I get bored with the Mug during the day
but when I remember to check it at home after work, its always so damn FANTASTIC
I was drunk. Sue me.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Jan 6, 2010 7:52 PM CST reply actions
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Cincinnati
|
57 | 46 | .553 | 0 | Won 2 |
|
St. Louis
|
56 | 46 | .549 | 0.5 | Lost 1 |
|
Milwaukee
|
48 | 55 | .466 | 9 | Lost 2 |
|
Chicago
|
46 | 56 | .450 | 10.5 | Lost 2 |
|
Houston
|
42 | 59 | .415 | 14 | Won 2 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
36 | 65 | .356 | 20 | Lost 1 |
(updated 7.30.2010 at 4:51 AM CDT)
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
