Wednesday's Frosty Mug
by Kyle Lobner on Nov 10, 2010 9:57 AM CST
in Milwaukee Brewers News
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PrintSome things to read while waiting it out.
It's speculation season, but there's a reason it's also called "silly season." Yesterday Peter Gammons reported that the Brewers could consider trading Ryan Braun this offseason, and listed the Red Sox as a potential destination (h/t Jeff Sherman). There's next to no chance the Brewers would ever consider such a deal: Braun is under team control for five more years and makes $12 million or less each season. Jaymes Langrehr of The Brewers Bar says this rumor is "The Stupidest Thing You'll Hear This Winter," and as long as you steer clear of the JS comments he's probably right. Adam McCalvy is also skeptical.
It's actually probably more likely (maybe 1% vs .1%) the Brewers will sign Cliff Lee than trade Ryan Braun. In-Between Hops says the Brewers should go for it, and "signing Cliff Lee would immediately make them a top contender in the NL Central." At Pocket Doppler Brian Carriveau listed ten pitchers the Brewers could potentially acquire this winter, including Lee.
Elsewhere on the free agent front, Derrek Lee's name continues to come up and I'm still not sure I understand why. Toby Harrmann says he could live with a contract for Lee if the Brewers were certain his laundry list of injuries had healed, but that seems unlikely. And, of course, the Brewers would have to have traded Prince Fielder for any deal with Lee to make sense.
Here's some news on the Brewers' outgoing free agents:
- Jeff Passan of Yahoo ranked this offseason's free agents from 1-164 and Chris Capuano (#91) is the only Brewer to crack the top 100. Dave Bush (102), Craig Counsell (106), Gregg Zaun (113), Trevor Hoffman (156) and Doug Davis (162) were all in the bottom 64. (h/t Howie Magner)
- Trevor Hoffman told Barry Bloom of MLB.com he's going to weigh his options before deciding if he'll retire this offseason. It still seems likely he'll hang up his spikes but there's an outside chance he could end up closing in Arizona under former Padres GM Kevin Towers.
- Gregg Zaun, meanwhile, is interested in returning to the Rays.
Looking further ahead, the Brewers unveiled their spring training schedule yesterday. I'll likely finalize my plans for my first-ever trip to Arizona this week.
Ron Roenicke continues to settle into his new office, and Adam McCalvy has another look at the new manager and the tree he was plucked off of. Roenicke also continues to work on filling out his coaching staff and had interest in former Mariners manager Don Wakamatsu before he decided to take the bench coach job in Toronto.
Elsewhere on the coaching front:
- We don't know if former Orioles interim manager Juan Samuel is a candidate for any of the Brewers' vacancies, but it likely won't matter: He's believed to be close to a deal to coach first base for the Phillies.
- Ditto for former Orioles manager Dave Trembley: He's taken a job as the Braves' Minor League Field Coordinator.
- Meanwhile, Willie Randolph is one of three coaches with Brewer ties believed to be candidates for jobs in Baltimore.
Awards week got underway yesterday with the announcement of the AL Gold Gloves, and continues today with the NL's fielding awards (Spoiler alert: There won't be any Brewers.). Looking ahead to the MVP race, though, J.C. Bradbury of Sabernomics ranked Ryan Braun and Prince Fielder as the NL's 11th and 16th most valuable position players, respectively.
Alcides Escobar may win a Gold Glove someday, but today likely will not be that day. Lee Panas of Tiger Tales averaged four defensive metrics and estimated Escobar's defense at +2 runs this season, tied for tenth among 22 shortstops studied.
Elsewhere in statistics: Yesterday I mentioned that Bill James' 2011 projections are now available at FanGraphs. Jaymes Langrehr of The Brewers Bar has a look at some of the more notable Brewer results.
And elsewhere in sabermetrics: Every now and then we have a conversation about the somewhat false notion that Miller Park is a hitter's park. At the new Roto Hardball site, Jack Moore has a graph comparing wRC+ (runs created) to wOBA that shows Milwaukee as tied for baseball's third most pitcher-friendly environment.
In the minors:
- Minor League free agency officially opened this week. Baseball America has the full list of 533 players that hit the market, including Chuck Lofgren, Angel Salome, Norris Hopper and 14 other Brewer farmhands.
- Dan Merklinger had a pretty good day in the AFL yesterday, starting for Phoenix and posting three hitless innings. Danny Wild of MLB.com has quotes from Merklinger on the outing and switching AFL teams.
Around baseball:
Reds: Outfielder Laynce Nix was removed from the 40 man roster and is now a free agent.
Twins: Signed pitcher Eric Hacker to a major league deal.
It wouldn't be award season if we didn't have a terrible decision to discuss. Derek Jeter won his fifth Gold Glove yesterday despite ranking 46th out of 47 shortstops in fielding runs this season, according to Baseball Reference.
For teams looking for a middle infielder this offseason, the market might be about to present another interesting option: Japanese 2B/SS Tsuyoshi Nishioka may be posted this week.
The Wisconsin Timber Rattlers are expected to unveil their new logos later this week, but the bar has been set pretty high: For my money, these new Asheville Tourists logos are the best I've seen this offseason.
On this day in 1964 the Braves signed a 25 year lease for Atlanta's new Fulton County Stadium. They went on to play one more season in Milwaukee before departing for the south.
Happy birthday today to:
- Brevard County Manatee Dexter Bobo, who turns 23.
- Madison native and 1964 Milwaukee Brave Bill Southworth, who turns 65.
- 1954-58 Brave Gene Conley, who turns 80.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some shopping to do.
Drink up.
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Dumbfounded
Gammons isn’t a moron, right? Was that just a move for publicity? “Look at me! I’m Peter Gammons!” I agree that this will be perhaps the dumbest thing mentioned. Can anyone think of a package they’d be willing to do for anything? His value is 40 bajillion dollars. Just dumb.
Good luck on the Arizona trip! Do you really have to book 5 months in advance to find a hotel and reasonable airfare?
"Just one more turn." - The Civilization addict's motto
I would say definitely not on the reasonable airfare
My family lives there, and I usually fly back every spring to visit. No idea about hotels, though, but I doubt it.
Speaking of which, I would tell Kyle (and anyone else who’s planning a visit) to have lunch at YC’s Mongolian Grill, which is actually right next to the new D-Backs spring training stadium they’re opening up. It’s about the only Arizona-specific food place I can tell people to go to. Of course, if you’ve never been to an In-N-Out, you gotta do that, too.
I had a link here to my blog, but it's now defunct and I guess I've lost the URL. Currently taking suggestions for a new signature.
"if you’ve never been to an In-N-Out, you gotta do that, too."
I thought those were near Vegas
I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful
They started in SoCal
They’ve since expanded to NorCal, Vegas, and AZ
I had a link here to my blog, but it's now defunct and I guess I've lost the URL. Currently taking suggestions for a new signature.
comment goes well with your signature
by PagsBrewCrew on Nov 10, 2010 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Everyone needs to do In-N-Out
too far?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 10, 2010 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
I'm staying with a friend, so I have no idea on hotels.
As for airfare, I’m not sure if there’s an advantage to booking early. I just like having it done.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Nov 10, 2010 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
I think Peter Gammons is the Sid Hartman of the national media
Thats a Minneapolis star tribune reference for those of you who dont know. He was more of a rumor monger and old school guy who had a column in the Minneapolis Star Tribune, he may still have Im not sure, that would say things like “I’ve heard that Kirby Puckett likes to eat at the Lincoln Del every Thursday morning for breakfast and this is the source of his amazing speed”. Just crazy, crony stuff like that.
I responded to that Braves fan a few days ago who asked about Braun by saying that Braun’s surplus value is over $50 million by itself, but that with any premium involved, probably approaches $75 to even $100 for any trade that would have to be pulled off. For purposes of the Braves, something along the lines of Jason Heyward and Julio Teheran or Tommy Hanson would be the package needed to land Braun.
Would be the exact same thing for the Red Sox. It would have to start with Clay Buchholz and also include Casey Kelly, Jacoby Ellsbury and one more big offensive piece. If Ryan Westmoreland hadnt had brain surgery he would be the type of player to fill in that gap, but the Sox dont even have the last big player to pull off a move for Braun.
Braun isnt technically “untouchable” but the package it would take to get him would cripple any team, and in the end they get one player worth about 4 wins a year and have to give up 3 or 4 really high upside, hig productive players. Its just not worth it for the other team to land him.
Comparing Gammons to Hartmann
is wildly unfair to Pete. Hartmann is a doddering old namedropper and nothing more.
I’m not smart enough to look at the other stuff and do anything but drool and mumble.
by Rubie Q on Nov 10, 2010 10:55 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Is Sid even still alive?
I just remember listening to the KQRS morning show in the 90s and how they would lay into him incessantly.
Yes.
He wrote a column just last week saying the Vikings’ problems weren’t caused by his friend Chilly.
I’m not smart enough to look at the other stuff and do anything but drool and mumble.
by Rubie Q on Nov 10, 2010 11:52 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Probably would be something like
that scene in one of those Star Trek movies where Mr Scott picks up the computer mouse and starts talking to it
“computer…..computer!…..”
Coming back to earlier
would you say that Hartman was the original Nick Cafardo?
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
I'm not very familiar with Cafardo
But reading Hartman is an experience.
Its not just reporting rumors per se, but he does things like what have been posted here, such as subtly printing his subjective thoughts to make it seem objective.
I remember he would have his column and at the end it was filled with tid bits, little one liners, and they were often bizarre things, maybe a little Larry King like in the observation style, but sports related.
Cafardo is the boston.com guy that throws stuff out there to see what sticks
Any big name guy, or any guy goes on the block, he links with the Sawx. It’s really annoying.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
sort of but nobody takes him seriously
his column (and there’s a guy with the St. Paul paper who does the same thing) is more the society pages of the sports world.
Earlier in the month
He said Tim Brewster (6-21 record in 3+ years in the B10) wasn’t the problem with the Gopher football team being really, really bad after a decent run with Glen Mason
Get a ife broseph
Doesn't every paper have a guy like that?
A guy who embraces and embellishes massively unpopular opinions so people will talk about him?
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Nov 10, 2010 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
True
I would argue the difference is that Hartman is 90 years old and has gotten more and more extreme (and weird) the older he gets because he honestly doesn’t care. Other writers are at least somewhat concerned about keeping their job and making sure they’re marketable when they need to find their next opportunity.
Definitely makes for fun conversation.
Get a ife broseph
They do, but that's not Hartman's schtick.
Hartman’s thing is to make friends with the heavy hitters — he used to mention his friendship with George Steinbrenner constantly, for example — and then defend them at all costs.
He’s also a relentless shill for the home teams. His argument for why the Twins needed to build a new stadium remains one of my favorite pieces of shitty journalism. An actual line from the column:
And how would you vote if you knew the addition of a baseball stadium downtown [Minneapolis] and 81 game dates would create big crowds and help solve the great amount of crime going on now in downtown Minneapolis?
I’m not smart enough to look at the other stuff and do anything but drool and mumble.
I've never heard of stadiums as crime prevention before, but in a way it makes sense.
Having a venue like that forces the city to make the neighborhood safe or risk no one going. Stadiums are built in crappy parts of towns all the time, and the only case I can think of where it hasn’t improved the neighborhood is US Cellular in Chicago.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Right, except:
the existing stadium in Minneapolis was/is located downtown.
I’m not smart enough to look at the other stuff and do anything but drool and mumble.
by Rubie Q on Nov 10, 2010 1:43 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
also
during the middle of games is an excellent time to break into cars
by PagsBrewCrew on Nov 10, 2010 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
Not only this
But its Minneapolis, not a ton of “inner city” type of crime in downtown Minneapolis. I dont know what its like there now, but when I lived there in the late 80s and 90s it was one of the safest and cleanest cities I have ever seen.
As for US Cellular, from what I hear the neighborhood is starting to change, at least in the immediate vicinity. Lots of condo and town houses going up near by. From what I have seen, its more industrial near there than anything.
I remember I think a Sports Illustrated story
Saying that he once had a phone radio interview with Spud Webb and continually referred to him as Spider Webb.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
Sid Hartman is crazy
I love Gammons and would feel bad ever ripping him. I will say he’s been limited since his health problems and isn’t exactly the best source for rumors.
With that said, he’s still more reliable than Nick Cafardo.
Get a ife broseph
It's still irresponsible
Gammons has to know that. He’s not dumb. I really really don’t think he’s dumb, anyway. Why would he bring that up? He has to be in the game long enough to know that if anything Melvin holds players too long.
No, Braun isn’t “untouchable” and I doubt anyone here would argue that point as a technicality – even Kyle gave it a 0.1% chance – but Gammons can’t say it as if it could happen.
"Just one more turn." - The Civilization addict's motto
I don't think its irresponsible at all
He was reporting what he heard, and let people interpret how they want.
Get a ife broseph
Guys have to have a filter if they're to be taken seriously
"Just one more turn." - The Civilization addict's motto
Right
Its nothing to take seriously, but its not some irresponsible act of journalism or a “look at me!” grab for attention from Gammons – he was just reporting what he heard.
Perhaps you could blame NESN for taking a throwaway line on their show and putting it up on the blog to get lots of hits and generate ad revenue.
Unless there is a blatant agenda like Heyman with Boras, I’m fine with reporters telling me what they’ve heard, I think I can handle the filter part OK myself.
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Nov 10, 2010 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well said.
I’m not smart enough to look at the other stuff and do anything but drool and mumble.
by Rubie Q on Nov 10, 2010 11:45 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Except that Gammons
ALWAYS HAS said crap like this. Every damn year he picks some star or another form the midwest under a team friendly contract and says that the Red Sox will trade for them. This is nothing new, and I have to believe is all Gammons. I am utterly stunned anyone is shocked and or standing up for Gammons on this. The man is an unabashed peddler of BS.
by Braunstalker on Nov 10, 2010 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
He didn't say that the Red Sox would trade for Braun
He said people in Milwaukee have told him that Braun may be available this offseason.
Are you claiming he made the entire thing up and that no one told him that Ryan Braun might be available in the offseason?
Get a ife broseph
Could it be something that originated from AW?
He’s been kind of quiet lately.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
My guess
Is that someone in the Brewers org was having a conversation with Gammons, probably about Prince. Gammons probably asked about other players that were available and was told “anyone is available for the right price.”
He then drops one line on a NESN show about how Braun may be available if the Sox are looking to make trades. NESN posts it on their blog with the title: Peter Gammons Says Boston Could Be Landing Spot for Ryan Braun If Brewers Deal All-Star
Blog gets 10X as much traffic, Gammons didn’t say anything false, anyone with half a brain knows that this idea is never going to happen, lots of people get pissed at Gammons for saying something that they already know is false.
Get a ife broseph
Ueker
takes sly pokes at Gammons when he can fit it in. He went on a tirade about him in 02 (?) when he said something about Sheets being traded for some non-prospect to the Sox.
by Braunstalker on Nov 10, 2010 3:54 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not claiming he made the entire thing up
I’m claiming that he called them to talk about it and when they flatly denied it and thought the concept was insane and would only part with Braun under overwhelmingly rewarding circumstances, Gammons said “AHA! So you’re saying it’s possible,” and it was in print before his conscience could kick in.
As someone once put it...
Braun’s contract is one of the most mutually beneficial deals in baseball. Apart from it being a major blow to the offense, it would be PR suicide for the Brewers to do this.
No player is untouchable, but Brain is as close as you can get. I feel like someone fed Gammons this rumor just because he’s Peter Gammons and any rumor he reports kicks up at least a little bit of dirt.
I find it VERY hard to believe that Braun is “on the block”.
"I signed with the Milwaukee Braves for three-thousand dollars. That bothered my dad at the time because he said he didn't have that kind of dough." - Ueck
by GormanBraun28 on Nov 10, 2010 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
I just posted this at the bottom of yesterday's Mug thread
But I’m pretty sure I know how the Braun-to-Red Sox rumor got started:
Gammons and Epstein are sitting together in Epstein’s office.
Gammons: So we’re losing Beltre next year – wouldn’t it be awesome if we traded for Ryan Braun?? We could totally make that work!
Epstein: Wait, wha … who’s we?
Gammons: (Tapping on iPhone) Shut it, Theo. I’m rolling. Aaaaaaaaannd … filed to NESN.
by Cheeseandcorn on Nov 10, 2010 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
Lester, Buccholz, and Bard for Braun
:)
"I signed with the Milwaukee Braves for three-thousand dollars. That bothered my dad at the time because he said he didn't have that kind of dough." - Ueck
by GormanBraun28 on Nov 10, 2010 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
I think that would prompt another LOL from Theo
Probably a fair deal, but Red Sox would be nuts to pull that deal off.
Any fair, or overvalued deal done for the Braun would help the Brewers by a huge margin and kill the other team.
Yep
Sure it would probably be value for value, but there’s no possible way. With Beckett’s struggles and Dice-K’s continued ineptitude, Lester’s the ace and Buchholz is really the number 2 ahead of Lackey.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 10, 2010 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
It's pricey to go to Spring Training
Four years ago I looked at taking our family of 4 to spring training in Phoenix. I ended up in Waikiki because it was cheaper to get a condo there for 5 nights!
I dunno about that
we stayed last year at a Super 8 for like $25/night
it was a little in the middle of nowhere, but only 4 mins from an In-n-Out which, you must go to and order a 4×4 animal style extra toast…
mmmm
::drools::
by BEARDEDJEFF on Nov 10, 2010 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
I'll have my wife with me
So I’m pretty sure anything I can find for $25 a night will be resoundingly rejected.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Nov 10, 2010 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
Understood
though there was a nice park/vacant land across the street that we played some ball on.
Either way, as a first timer last year it was a blast and if my wife didn’t get knocked up this summer i’d be going again in a heartbeat!
ENJOY!
by BEARDEDJEFF on Nov 10, 2010 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
I appreciate that when KL objected to the Super 8 your first counterpoint was that there was a vacant lot across the street.
I’ve never been down to spring training, would love to at some point in the next few years.
Get a ife broseph
Something about $25 a night
Vacant lot, and Arizona screams “Front Page news story involving homicide”
Hey, it's Arizona
It’s not like it’s West Virginia or something…
I had a link here to my blog, but it's now defunct and I guess I've lost the URL. Currently taking suggestions for a new signature.
We rented a house for the week
I’d have to get the link from Liz, but you can rent condos/houses for a week and the rates are pretty reasonable. That’s what we did.
It’s fun, what week are you planing on heading down? I hope the weather is better then it was for us, and I highly suggest going to Pizzaria Biancha. But get there early, the wait is killer.
Yeah, I'm tempted to get one too.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Nov 10, 2010 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
Gene Conley
Only player to win a championship in MLB and the NBA.
I never use a big word when a diminutive word would suffice.
Tired of the Cliff Lee talk.
He will never sign here. Melvin just needs to sign Kuroda and give JD and Webb invites with incentive contracts.
by Mr. McGehee on Nov 10, 2010 11:39 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Agreed on Lee
But disagree on the other guys. No need to put up the money needed for Kuroda if the Fielder trade is done right.
DM and MA have both stated that they are not going to enter the FA market this year. Time to give up on that though for OV and everyone else who thinks that because money is coming off of the books, its a good idea to tie it all up on one player that doesnt get you to the promised land by himself.
What are you talking about?
Once they trade Fielder for Greinke they won’t need to sign Lee.
"Just one more turn." - The Civilization addict's motto
LOL
sorry, channeling my inner Theo.
However, if they signed Lee AND traded for Greinke, they MIGHT have a shot this year. Although you would also have to trade FIelder in order to make room for both of those contracts, and then in 3 or 4 years you probably have a very, very bad team.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 10, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
There is no way they win a world series, even with Lee and Greinke.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 10, 2010 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
They wouldn't be front runners,
but it is not out of the realm of sound possibility.
by Braunstalker on Nov 10, 2010 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
Lee and Greinke don't make them instant top contenders?
not even with Gallardo and Braun alongside them?
http://www.mlbsoup.com
Lee, Greinke Gallardo is better than Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, and our offense is at least as good, even without Fielder.
http://www.mlbsoup.com
I don't think so
Maybe. But I don’t think so.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 10, 2010 3:32 PM CST up reply actions
If you look at only last season's WAR
and you’re replacing Parra and Bush with Lee and Grienke, and trading FIelder, you net +7.7 WAR. That’s assuming everything is 100% constant, and they completely replicate their 2009 numbers. Obviously, that’s not going to happen—Fielder will put out more than 4.1 WAR, probably closer to 5.1, Lee probably won’t put up another 7.1, and Greinke will probably stay around 5. You still come out ahead, and WAR =/= wins, but I don’t think that’s going to be enough to win the World Series, let alone be instant top contenders.
Maybe I’m too pessimistic. This is all really just cloud chasing anyway, since neither Greinke nor Lee are going to be playing for the Brewers in 2011.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 10, 2010 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
DONT CRUSH MY DREAMS
Too close for missiles, I’m switching to Ueck.
You gotta remember
Brewers=/= Yankees
The Yankees can spend a boatload AND sell out their farm system and still be successful. The Brewers cannot
by ilikeburritos on Nov 10, 2010 3:36 PM CST up reply actions
The Brewers currently have $32M tied up for 2011.
Even with guys in arbitration, they would be able to keep Fielder and have Lee and Greinke’s contracts on the team for 2011. So there wouldn’t be a need to trade Prince. The Brewers obviously couldn’t even try to re-sign him after 2011, but there is money to house all three for a year.
Fielder, Greinke and Lee together
Would put the number at $80 million alone, and then you would have to enter in the numbers for the arb guys like Weeks for instance.
does that $32 number include the buyouts that have been done? Obviously its possible, but going forward it would cripple the team financially in that it wouldnt be able to extend Weeks or Fielder (which we already knew) and when guys like McGehee become arb eligible, and Braun and Gallardos contracts begin to grow, just puts the team in a bad financial position going forward.
Not to mention the complete loss of players to fill gaps from the farm system when departures occur since they are all playing for KC.
It certainly wouldn't work after 2011, but we're only talking about next year.
And technically, you could trade away Greinke after the year to reload the farm system.
http://www.mlbsoup.com
You could try to trade Lee after the season, too, provided he doesn't have/excersize a full no-trade clause.
What an interesting strategy that would be!
Flawed logic
The Yankees can sign him for less per year than the Brewers would have to. The sheer size of the contract is going to dramatically lower his actual value in trade after ONE year with the Brewers.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 10, 2010 4:48 PM CST up reply actions
Also
Greinke can block trades to 20 clubs in 2010 (not sure if that’s calendar year, or baseball season, and whether that carries over into off-season or not) and 15 in 2011. So, here’s to hoping Milwaukee isn’t on that list for this whole thing to even be considered.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 10, 2010 4:51 PM CST up reply actions
It does include the buyouts.
You’re right, after 2011, the Brewers would be pretty much crippled. I was just pointing out that, for one year, it would be possible to have all three guys in Milwaukee.
See below.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 10, 2010 4:48 PM CST up reply actions
Have you looked at my roster construction and estimates thread?
I think the estimates are relatively conservative. Including Fielder and raises to everyone, you’re looking at just under $63MM in payroll. Greinke is making $13.5MM in 2011, so that brings payroll up to $76.5, conservatively. I’m guessing Cliff Lee will get around $18MM per anum, and the Brewers may have to pay him $22 or $23 just to get him to come to Milwaukee. Even best case, then, payroll would be at $94.5MM, and more likely around $98 or $99. That’s a dangerously high level to be at for baseball’s smallest market. I don’t think that even if the Brewers made the playoffs, per what Mark Attanasio says, they’d turn a profit on that payroll.
So in short, no, I don’t think they can do it without trading Fielder.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 10, 2010 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
Then trade him when his salary dramatically increases?
Interesting idea…
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
The Doug Melvin special
So, you want to make it even harder to trade him after his one year in Milwaukee?
OK, so…what? $16MM in 2010? So the payroll is at $92.5M? Conservatively. You’re saying you think that’s a likely or you’re saying its possible, no matter how utterly slim a possibility it is? Because its also possible that the Brewers swing trades for Sabathia, Lincecum, AND Greinke, sign Cliff Lee and keep Prince Fielder as well.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 10, 2010 4:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think anyone's arguing that it's likely.
You created this scenario.
We argued that if that was indeed the scenario, we could win a world series.
Now you’re trying to make us feel stupid for talking about that scenario?
http://www.mlbsoup.com
by tcyoung on Nov 10, 2010 6:02 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Yes
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 10, 2010 6:42 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not advocating this.
Nor am I looking at future years after 2011. I am saying that, were the Brewers to make a (near definitely) stupid decision to mortgage the next ten years for next year, it would certainly be possible to have Greinke, Lee, and Fielder all on the roster given the payroll constraints that Milwaukee faces.
Ah
Well, agree to disagree, then? Since you didn’t actually address any of the points I made?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 10, 2010 6:43 PM CST up reply actions
maybe other teams would be willing to pay for lee and greinke
so we can take on the evil east coast empire for a year
by PagsBrewCrew on Nov 10, 2010 7:19 PM CST up reply actions
Not Greinke
or anyone whose contracts are going to run out in the next 3 years or so. Greinke is a great pitcher but his contract runs out after 2 years and the Brewers are going to give up 100mil plus an arm and a leg to sign him long term, which they probably aren’t gonna be able to do. Otherwise they’re gonna get outbid by the big-market teams just like when they were bidding for Sabathia. I’d rather see DM make an effort to trade for Jacob Turner, Andy Oliver, or Julio Teheran(I think Teheran’s gonna be a stretch, though). Mainly because they have bright futures and are going to be under team control for a long time
by ilikeburritos on Nov 10, 2010 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
NL Gold Glove winners
Arroyo, Molina, Pujols, Phillips, Rolen, Tulowitzki, Victorino, Bourn, CarGo.
Not sure why Braun doesn’t get any respect in LF, he must has just missed getting the award this year. Oh well.
Get a ife broseph
I think my sarcasm detector is fixed, because it's going off.
BTW – Oddly enough, when I read CarGo, I though of our CarGo.
AL winners (not sure if it’s been posted already, but I didn’t see it anywhere):
Buehrle, Mauer, Teixeira, Cano, Longoria, Jeter, Suzuki, Crawford, Gutierrez.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
average
my guess he doesn’t get respect is because he is about an average left fielder
Tim Bring back the chalet,frank charles at the wurlitzer organ, bob betts at the mic, and the barrell man logo!!!!
I wish Braun was average in the field.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
I think he may get there
Seems like he takes it pretty seriously.
For your health!
by menchkins on Nov 11, 2010 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't.
He has been out there 3 years and isn’t getting better. He also looks pretty lackadaisical a lot of the time in LF.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
2008, 2009, 2010
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
In other, frightening news, Brian Bannister is officially a free agent
He’s the kind of guy Doug would try to bring in. Scary.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
He'd be a minor league deal, right?
Like his views on sabermetrics – his pitching…not so much.
Get a ife broseph
Sure
but then there’d be the whole “with a chance to compete to be in the starting rotation” thing.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 10, 2010 4:49 PM CST up reply actions
If they have to put him on the major league roster out of spring training, no thanks
He could however, be good AAA depth
Get a ife broseph
as assistant to the GM?
I’d be for that.
It’s kind of sad about Bannister. He has immense artistic and mathematical talent; it’s a shame it didn’t extend to the pitching.
I don't have a link
but my ESPN fantasy baseball sidebar says that Kendall is expected to be starting catcher for the Royals again next year. How depressing.
Too close for missiles, I’m switching to Ueck.
Kendall is starting for a team that's not the Brewers
I don’t see how that’s remotely depressing.
I had a link here to my blog, but it's now defunct and I guess I've lost the URL. Currently taking suggestions for a new signature.
by Lefti on Nov 10, 2010 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Well, I just feel bad for Royals fans
Too close for missiles, I’m switching to Ueck.
Fair enough
I think the schadenfreude overwhelms the pity for me, though.
I had a link here to my blog, but it's now defunct and I guess I've lost the URL. Currently taking suggestions for a new signature.
The whole McGehee to the A's thing
is getting more and more far-fetched I think with the A’s trading Vin Mazzaro and a prospect for David DeJesus.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Cincinnati
|
25 | 19 | .568 | 0 | Won 6 |
|
St. Louis
|
25 | 20 | .555 | 0.5 | Lost 1 |
|
Houston
|
21 | 23 | .477 | 4 | Won 3 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
20 | 24 | .454 | 5 | Lost 2 |
|
Milwaukee
|
18 | 26 | .409 | 7 | Won 1 |
|
Chicago
|
15 | 29 | .340 | 10 | Lost 9 |
(updated 5.25.2012 at 3:41 AM CDT)
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