Pujols does not win NL MVP
That Joey Votto guy won. I thought that would make some people around here happy. :)
over 1 year ago
roguejim
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Speaking of the birdos
There is a thread on VEB about bringing Soup back. Most agree that it’s a bad idea, but there are a select few who think it could be a decent idea.
VIVA!
http://www.mlbsoup.com
if they're that interested in incompetence
why don’t they advocate bringing Wellemeyer back? He’s awful for sure but at least he’s more interesting than Suppan.
It would hav been criminal to give Pujols the MVP this year. Really glad he didn't get it.
For your health!
I thought it was pretty close. I’d have voted Pujols if given the vote although Votto’s deserving as well. They’re both from rivals anyway.
Playoffs matter
There would be a big uproar if Pujols won it on a team that didn’t make the playoffs. Pujols had a great year, but the rest of the Cards let him down. Votto had the better team around him.
Nationwide Writer for SBNation's Nascar Ranting & Raving (www.4ever3blog.com)
"A ringing single for David Eckstein who, in my view, is the perfect size for an American male." -Bob Costas
MVP is an individual award though, right?
I think they already have an award for the guy who has the best team around him called the World Series championship.
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Nov 23, 2010 8:24 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Playoffs don't matter.
At least, they shouldn’t. The team shouldn’t matter, not one iota.
Twitterize me: @mykenk
by Mykenk on Nov 23, 2010 8:57 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
But they do. I wasn’t saying it’s right, but in every sport the team around the guy matters. Look at the NFL. Two years ago Drew Brees had better stats then almost every other QB, yet played on a 8-8 team. He probablys should have won the MVP, but didn’t. Veterans actually tell free agents not to sign with the Packers unless you don’t want to go to the pro bowl. In terms of the best player in the league, you can make a very big case for Pujols, but remember, this award is given out by a panel of voters, not by sheer numbers. Most people won’t even consider a guy unless his team made the post season.
Nationwide Writer for SBNation's Nascar Ranting & Raving (www.4ever3blog.com)
"A ringing single for David Eckstein who, in my view, is the perfect size for an American male." -Bob Costas
so what you're saying is the system is broke
but why bother fixing it?
And lets just pretend there’s not a problem.
I guess you’re all for not talking about the Loxodonta in the abode
by PagsBrewCrew on Nov 23, 2010 9:34 AM CST up reply actions
What?
I swear dude, sometimes it’s like talking to a bunch of women on this site. Where in my response do I say don’t bother fixing it? Yes, the system is broke. I stated that. But I never said we should never try to change it. The problem is, there is no easy fix, and anything you do, there will always be a handful of guys who deserve to win, but do not. Votto and Pujols were both very deserving. If Pujols had won, people would say that Votto led his team to the playoffs and should have won.
Nationwide Writer for SBNation's Nascar Ranting & Raving (www.4ever3blog.com)
"A ringing single for David Eckstein who, in my view, is the perfect size for an American male." -Bob Costas
by Troy J. on Nov 23, 2010 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
talking to women is the analogy you make for something being bad?
You definitely win the award for sexist comment of the day. Nice work.
Too close for missiles, I’m switching to Ueck.
Thank you
I like to thank all the women in my life who take everything I say and twist it. Also God, for giving me no remorse.
Nationwide Writer for SBNation's Nascar Ranting & Raving (www.4ever3blog.com)
"A ringing single for David Eckstein who, in my view, is the perfect size for an American male." -Bob Costas
Its times like these
that I just think “idiot doesn’t have a clue”, and just walk away.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 23, 2010 8:14 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Is this really true or are you just making this up?
Veterans actually tell free agents not to sign with the Packers unless you don’t want to go to the pro bowl.
The Packers have had plenty of players go to the Pro Bowl.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Does anyone actually want to go to the Pro Bowl?
Unless it triggers some incentive clause in a contract of course…
For your health!
It was a story that broke a few years ago.
I think Woodson broke the story.
Nationwide Writer for SBNation's Nascar Ranting & Raving (www.4ever3blog.com)
"A ringing single for David Eckstein who, in my view, is the perfect size for an American male." -Bob Costas
Yes and No
The playoffs don’t matter because they aren’t part of the regular season. We don’t include preseason games either. I think the team matters because at the end of the season the only thing that matters is wins. And no matter how well a player hits, if his team loses 100 games then the whole roster was a waste of money.
But the team's results do matter
Wins to get into the playoffs are more valuable to a team than those that keep the team’s losses under 100 or 82. Given that, why isn’t a player who helps a team get into the playoffs more valuable than a similar player who didn’t?
I never use a big word when a diminutive word would suffice.
Is this true?
Wins to get into the playoffs are more valuable to a team than those that keep the team’s losses under 100 or 82.
I would guess guys can bring value to the team many ways. I’m assuming that Pujols is really valuable attendence driver for STL. If he has a great stretch and keeps them in the race for a month longer than they should be – draws thousands more to the park, drives revenue, gets young players experience in close games, etc, isn’t that pretty valuable?
If a player on the Royals has a fantastic year and helps them stay under a 100 wins, keeps the fan base from revolting and helps ticket sales possibly bring more value than a guy who helps his team win their division by 5 games instead of 1?
Get a ife broseph
It's possible
But I don’t see a reason to exclude the player’s team and its results from the discussion.
I never use a big word when a diminutive word would suffice.
Pujols always has a good year
but for him it was a down year and Votto was definitely the “most valuable” player on his team. As is stated below, the playoffs matter.
As is stated below that, they shouldn’t.
As is then stated ….but they do.
It’s true, they do matter and I agree that they shouldn’t but without Votto, the Reds don’t make the Playoffs.
….pretty sure Andre Dawson won an MVP for the Cubs once even though they were in last place but that certainly doesn’t happen very often.
For your health!
It takes a monster year
When you have a few guys who are real close in your mind, having a playoff team will always make you lean more twords one dude. But if no one is close to another player, it’s an easy choice, no matter what the final record is.
Nationwide Writer for SBNation's Nascar Ranting & Raving (www.4ever3blog.com)
"A ringing single for David Eckstein who, in my view, is the perfect size for an American male." -Bob Costas
Well, the way I look at it is
This is the time when wins matter, and I’d look for the team with the best record first, and see if they have a clear-cut favorite. Philly had 97 wins, and they had a clear MVP, but it was Halladay. Unless the guy is having a historic year I don’t believe in giving a pitcher MVP votes. So on to the next team(s), which is the group of ATL-CIN-SFG-SDP together (a win or two difference doesn’t matter). Of the players in that group, Joey Votto had by far the best season, then Adrian Gonzales. They would have been my 1-2.
If there were no clear candidates among the playoff teams, then I’d consider runners-up like poo holes.
Why shouldn't a pitcher be considered?
I know there hasn’t been an NL pitcher MVP since Eckersley in ‘92, but do you say that just because pitchers have the Cy Young award? I don’t think there’s a good reason why someone like Halladay shouldn’t get votes for MVP.
Too close for missiles, I’m switching to Ueck.
Most closers pitch around 70 innings
I don’t understand the “pitchers don’t play as often” argument – hitters get 600-700 plate appearances each year. PItchers face around 900 batters each year.
Its refelected in the WAR statistic and often times in real life trades.
Get a ife broseph
A position player can affect 150+ games
A closer can affect 60+ games.
A starter can affect 30+ games.
I never use a big word when a diminutive word would suffice.
Can affect vs do affect
A pitcher has a direct impact on every single game that they pitch. If they pitch terribly, the team has an extremely small chance to win.
Teams can easily win if a position player goes 0-4.
Get a ife broseph
Pitcher have the Cy Young
But tune into ESPN and around 80% of the time, you’ll see hitters getting all the glory, and none of the blame. Pitchers often are the unsung heroes. You’ll hear about a pitcher who throws a shutout, but in a 2-1 game, the guy who scored the winning run will be credited as the reason they won, not the pitcher who only gave up one run. I do think that guys like Halladay should be getting more votes, you can score all the runs you want, but unless your pitcher keeps the other team in check, you ain’t winning. But the same goes the other way. A pitcher can have a monster game, but if he gives up just one run, he needs the bats to score so the team can win.
Nationwide Writer for SBNation's Nascar Ranting & Raving (www.4ever3blog.com)
"A ringing single for David Eckstein who, in my view, is the perfect size for an American male." -Bob Costas
That's an interesting point
Not to mention the physical strain of pitching is much greater than the physical strain of hitting.
For your health!
No one cares about 10-win players on 5-win teams
Especially not the players themselves. Winning is everything.
why the f*ck should wins matter?
unless they are CC or YG and pitch a 9 inning shutout and hit a homer for the only run, other players around a player always contribute to either + likelihood of a win or – likelihood.
That affects wins, but not how valuable the one player was to the team, much less the league or the game of baseball as a whole. Why should the value of someone be diminished by those around them? Is this the bad apple theory?
by PagsBrewCrew on Nov 23, 2010 9:31 AM CST up reply actions
it's not the regular season yet
I’ll be in full blown red hate then
by PagsBrewCrew on Nov 23, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
They're the defending champs and probably the current 2011 favorites.
They’re the enemy.
Twitterize me: @mykenk
So we can want to beat them.
I still see no reason not to like them. Both the team and their fans seem like a pretty likable bunch, unlike Chicago and St. Louis.
And talk about the travesty that is Corey Hart getting an MVP vote at any level.
Twitterize me: @mykenk
Meh
He had a good year.
Someone tossed him a vote.
He was never in danger of winning the award.
For your health!
Places 6-10 exist on the ballot to reward good seasons by players who won't win.
Once you get past the two or three favorites, what else is the ballot for?
I never use a big word when a diminutive word would suffice.
Also, there's this:
Every award that’s voted on is stupid. Subjectivity shouldn’t come into play when there’s millions of dollars at stake. Make all the awards stat based, and everyone can be happy.
Twitterize me: @mykenk
I'm not sure what part of that is sarcastic and what isn't.
Twitterize me: @mykenk
by Mykenk on Nov 23, 2010 11:56 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
subjectivity is a fact of life and it is what it is
no reason to get worked up about this either way. yount probably didn’t deserve to win in ’89, etc.. shrug.
there’s millions of dollars at stake all the time in more capricious systems, too. not that i’m saying that’s right. heck, look at the vote for president. you could argue there’s trillions (or more) at stake.
i’m not really making a point here and question why i continue to write this entry.
by Capt Science on Nov 23, 2010 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
MVP awards are for fans.
Not like the players have any say in them.
Twitterize me: @mykenk
by Mykenk on Nov 23, 2010 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
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| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
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