Luis Cruz plays the race card
Here's a quote from Luis Cruz, passed along by CBS Sports:
"The truth is that he [Macha] is very dry, very lethargic, a bit racist…but that’s all passed,"
Clearly, racism is why he only appeared in seven games in September. The fact that Cruz is a career .253/.290/.375 hitter in the minors had nothing to do with it.
over 1 year ago
Kyle Lobner
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Bad baseball players are constantly discriminated against.
wasn’t aware they were technically a “race” though.
Twitterize me: @mykenk
not really
if someone organizes a lynch mob against blacks, they’re very very racist
if they participate in a lynch mob, they’re very racist
if they refuse to hire anyone for a position because they just get black applicants, they’re racist
if they refuse to hire you with exactly equal qualification in favor of someone else, they’re a bit racist
if they refuse to let you have playing time over other people of the same minority class, they’re not racist.
if they refuse to let you (latino) have playing time over someone of a different racial minority all other things equal, they may be a bit racist
That being said, I didn’t know 15 year MLB veteran was a recognized minority class.
Probably just a semantics argument, I guess.
I would say that the difference between “organizing lynch mob racist” and “giving Latino players a short leash racist” doesn’t really matter, because both are racists.
Not that I think Macha is actually racist. An old guy who doesn’t get along very easily with anyone, sure, but not a racist.
I don't think it qualifies as a hate crime
to make a racistly-motivated HR decision. Whereas, it can get you the death penalty or tack on a bunch of years to violent crimes. So, I’d say that the legal system thinks it really does matter
15 year MLB veteran?
I think you have the wrong “Luis Cruz”.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
in that article it was saying that the other people ahead of him in the pecking order are either Latino
(Escobar), black (Weeks) or 15 year vets (Counsell)
thereby invalidating his racism claim.
any chance of a poor translation?
or the word “racist” has a different diction/context in his culture?
It's quite possible that Macha might be racist
but I don’t think it has anything to do with Cruz not playing.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Poor translation was my first thought, too
I never use a big word when a diminutive word would suffice.
Generally, it works like this:
“Hey, that [person of another ethnicity] doesn’t like me” => “Hey that [person of another ethnicity] doesn’t like [people of my ethnicity]”
Twitterize me: @mykenk
Wow
It’s too bad guys like Turnbow couldn’t use this technique.
Turnbow: Yeah, I know I am as likely to hit a guy in the head as I am to throw a pitch in the strike zone but come on, obviously I’m not the closer anymore because Yost is prejudiced against weird looking dudes who can’t throw strikes!
For your health!
hey rip van winkle
it’s no longer 2006-2008
by PagsBrewCrew on Nov 5, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
There you go
Or maybe Macha is prejudiced against players that are always injured which is really what’s been impeding Gamel’s career.
For your health!
On another subject...???
How the hell can they possibly quantify a statement like this:
“But Peterson had something to do with the emergence of young bullpen arms like John Axford and Zach Braddock, and with the second-half resurgence of veteran starter Randy Wolf. And the Brewers had Major League Baseball’s third-best ERA (2.96) in September and October. Only the Giants and the Angels were better over the final month.”
Does this mean that he is also responsible for how horrible the pitching staff was for the first 2/3 of the season?
For your health!
If you're referring to my post...nothing
I was just wanting some opinions on that quote from Brewers.com on Peterson.
For your health!
probably right
But it’s not like this thread won’t get completely off topic if people keep posting on it for more than a half hour anyway.
For your health!
So you want to be the Pied Piper and lead all the children away?
I’m having fun with the children’s story analogies today
So who gets the credit then?
Must be Mike Maddux, since we’re still living in 2007, right?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 5, 2010 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
No, I was referring to you
I think you know that, though. But let me go ahead and make it a lot more clear for you:
At least 90% of the posts I’ve read by you have something to do with the 2006-2008 Brewers and/or their affiliate teams.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 5, 2010 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not relevent to bring up past moves that the Team has made?
Those don’t offer any insight or impact on the current team make-up?
For your health!
Seriously?
The past moves of the team are what make the team is what it is today.
How could you say they don’t offer insight into the current team make up?
I’m not saying we need to dwell on everything little thing but they clearly have an impact.
The question I posted was totally valid. Why does Peterson get credit for the success of the pitching staff for the last third of the season but there was no implied blame for the pitching staff’s failures for the majority of the season.
Why would he get credit for guys like Axford? Shouldn’t that credit go to the minor league system?
I was just wondering what people’s take on that was.
For your health!
Who says there was no implied blame for the first half of the season?
Just because the article doesn’t say it, doesn’t mean it’s not there. The article doesn’t say he wears his pants too tight, but everyone knows he does.
Twitterize me: @mykenk
Haha
First of all, I think he’s trying to set a trend.
Everyone will be rocking the curly mullet and wearing their pants too tight soon.
Seriously though, the position of the article seems to be apologetic for Peterson. I’m not saying he did a bad job or a good one. It’s impossible to know with the staff he was given.
I just thought it was stupid that they credited him with Axford’s success when clearly there was a lot more work done with him in the minors than at the Major League level.
For your health!
Yeah, everything starts from zero
When a new coach takes over, its a blank slate, none of the credit goes to the previous regime. The same is always true for Governments. Also business. Never is there a carry-over from the way things were previously done.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 5, 2010 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I posted a question about a statement that is on the official site right now
But then I’m told I’m stuck in 2007.
I’m not telling anyone off… what are you even referring to?
For your health!
Actually...
you posted a question about a statement that has nothing to do with this thread.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Wow
All apologies, I’ll keep my posts related to mouth-blown glass from now on.
I did preface the post with “On another subject”
no one is required to respond to it.
For your health!
I can see the transition from Cruz to mouth-blown glass
I don’t see any transition besides your preface. BTW, your preface was “On another subject… ???”, which is kind of confusing since you weren’t really asking if it was on another subject.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
After reading the post was it still confusing that it was on another subject?
Or do you just want other people to stay out of your threads?
The ellipses and 3 question marks were indicating that there was a question inherent in the post. Sorry if that was confusing but again, you read it and if you didn’t want to talk about it then why not just ignore it rather than making an issue of it?
For your health!
blog ettiquitte
I know you’re new here, but off-topics are welcome in the mug (and also game threads) but other posts are typically single-topic only. This is mostly so if someone wanted to see if someone had made mention of Peterson they could easily find that out by reading a single thread or two and not the entirety of our blog. ie, if someone posts something in the uniform notes or minor league notes, chances are most people here wont’ bother to read it.
Your comment may have flown a bit better in the Mug, but you’ve rubbed me (and probably Charlie and others) the wrong way over the past few days, so you’re likely to catch some flak regardless of where you put it.
Yes
I found it very confusing that you’d bring up a discussion point from a completely different article that you didn’t even bother to post a link to.
I don’t think anyone wants to prevent anyone from posting in any threads… but they should at least be relevant. The blown-glass thing was humor that was somewhat related to this thread.
Would you prefer that no one reply to your posts instead of telling you that you’re posting in the wrong area?
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Actually, the mouth blown glass story included Mexican and/or Spanish newspaper
which is clearly relevant to race when Luis Cruz is talking.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 5, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Absolutely
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 5, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
telling us off
former managers have no relevance to what should be on the blog
new managers for a team like milwaukee aren’t news in baseball unless it’s someone that’s famous on ESPN
trying to troll with Kremblas and other news-of-years ago and telling us that we’re not giving you good counters to your agument that K was fired because Yost (who was on the outs himself) wanted him gone.
You live in a strange time-warp alternate reality and seem to have been taking a holier-than-thou attitude at least over the last week.
You are taking all of those things out of context
1. The Manager having no relevance comment was in response to my being told that stuff from the past has no bearing on current team events, it was also a sarcastic comment, not to be taken literally or seriously because any team news has relevance on a team based site.
2. What I said about managerial news is true. I don’t like it but it’s true. ESPN and most of the major sports media only cover large market teams, that again was a piece of an entire conversation.
3. I never said, your arguments weren’t good ones, I just don’t happen to agree. I thought and still think that Sandberg would be a viable coach and was defending my position. As were you.
4. The Kremblas thing, was based on memory of my feeling at the time and my dates were wrong which I noted.
Just because I don’t agree with everyone else on everything makes me holier than thou? that’s kind of circular isn’t it?
All I did today was post a question and was then lambasted for it.
I don’t see why I would have rubbed anyone the wrong way just for having an opinion.
The whole thing started when I posted a thread about whether or not Sandberg should be considered for the Managerial job. 74% (last time I checked) voted yes but the entire thread is filled with the vocal minority basically telling me how stupid an idea that is and calling me a Troll.
As for Off-Topics, these threads are filled with them, always, and again, if no one wants to talk about it, then don’t respond to it.
For your health!
I didn't read your Ryne Sandberg thread
because I didn’t give a damn. It wasn’t ever going to happen. I wasn’t interested in it. So I didn’t look.
I was confused why you would begin bringing up Kremblas in another thread years after he’d been fired.
And then, several other times, you bring up players from the 2006-2008 era. And then again today. Not really a big deal. But you seem to have an agenda that you’re trying to push, and it seems like its:
1) I wanted Ryne Sandberg as a manager, and I’m annoyed it didn’t happen.
1a) I’m annoyed everyone doesn’t think the same way, and I won’t buy anyone’s reasoning why he shouldn’t be an MLB manager.
2) I don’t like the coaching staff, and I’m going to blame everything on the 2010 staff.
3) I’m generally going to post things that I have an opinion on, and then get a little ass-chapped when someone disagrees, even if its a valid, supported point.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 5, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions
That's funny...
Obviously a communication issue here because that’s exactly how I feel.
I feel like no matter what I post, it will be shot down.
The Kremblas thing was part of an entire conversation that I don’t remember the order of.
1. My only argument for Sandberg was that he should be considered. Not necessarily given the job. I just think he may have value and should be considered.
2. When did I blame everything o the coaching staff?
I said specifically that I don’t know if Peterson did a good job or not because it was impossible to tell with the pitching staff he was given.
3. I don’t mind people disagreeing with me at all. I enjoy discussion on these topics which is why I’m here. I’ve been reading this blog for years but only recently started to post anything.
Just because people disagree doesn’t mean that my points don’t have validity though. I was sticking to my opinion on Sandberg just like everyone else was.
As for the what I posted today all did was ask for people’s thoughts on the subject.
For your health!
I thought I gave you my thoughts
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 5, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions
You just chose not to respond to them
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 5, 2010 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't see them if you did...
I would love to hear anyone’s thoughts on that, that’s why I posted it in the first place.
For your health!
Here, this is the last time I'll copy and paste something for you.
Next time you can go find it on your own. I admit, the tone is sarcastic. I certainly hope you were able to pick up on that, and thus, the main thrust of my point:
Yeah, everything starts from zero
When a new coach takes over, its a blank slate, none of the credit goes to the previous regime. The same is always true for Governments. Also business. Never is there a carry-over from the way things were previously done.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 5, 2010 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Ah, ok sorry I missed that
My main thought on the subject (or issue with the article rather), was that they would mention his successes and credit him with the development of Axford (and others) when he clearly spent very little time with Axford. Axford was successful right away, coming straight from the Minors so it seems to me that the credit for Axford should go to the Minor League coaching staff, not Peterson.
That’s all I was saying.
Again, did he do a good job? I have no idea. With the staff he was given, it’s impossible to tell.
For your health!
And instead start this dramatic posting war
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 5, 2010 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions
#2
It seems a bit contradictory to name someone you think should be considered, but not necessarily given the job. Why should they consider someone if they’re not going to give them the job?
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
My whole post question was "should he be considered?"
That doesn’t mean that he should definitely get the job, he certainly doesn’t have the most experience and there were more “qualified” candidates but I thought that he should be at least considered for the job.
When there’s rumors about them possibly hiring Brenley or Melvin, It seemed like a fair question to me whether or not he should be considered.
For your health!
Right
This is confusing to me.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 5, 2010 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions
There will always be multiple candidates for Managerial jobs
Some of them will have certain qualities such as experience that make them worth considering but there are others who have other qualities who may not have the experience but I think should also be considered.
As with any job he would have had to go through the interview process and everything and maybe at the end of the day he wouldn’t be a good fit for Milwaukee. My contention was simply that they should take a look at him.
Again, I was never saying they should just hand him the job, just that he should be considered. You never know, maybe in interviewing him they would decide that he would make a good first base coach or bench coach or something else within the organization.
Since my post Sandberg has basically told the Cubs to suck it and left their organization, I think he has qualities that should at the very least be investigated by the team if for no other reason than to do their due diligence.
Does that make sense?
For your health!
Since my post Sandberg has basically told the Cubs to suck it and left their organization,
So he decided 4 years was the most he was willing to put in at the minor league level? Some dedication there.
Get a ife broseph
My understanding is...
there was more or less a gentleman’s agreement between him and the club that he would be the next manager.
He got passed over so he’s pissed and moving on.
I don’t know that for sure but that’s what a friend of mine said that’s been a Cub fan forever an follows everything they do. (take that for what it’s worth… it is coming from a Cub fan)
For your health!
I think
He would probably accept a Minor league job with another organization, he’s just pissed at the Cubs.
I could be wrong about that though.
For your health!
we'll see, I hadn't heard that at all
Seems like a slap in the face to guys who have spent 10-20+ years working their way up the ladder hoping to get a chance that Sandberg would quit when he wasn’t given the MLB job after only 4 years.
Get a ife broseph
Yeah...
the fact is though that HOF players get special treatment and I think that’s what Sandberg was expecting.
Again, I don’t know that stuff for sure, that’s just what I was told but you could understand his frustration if he was led to believe that he would be the next manager and then got passed over.
For your health!
Can we be done talking about Sandberg now?
The point was relevant to nothing the first time we spent 100 comments on it.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
They were interviewing for a manager
Even if they thought Sandberg would make a good coach, they aren’t going to bring him in for an interview if they don’t think there’s even a slim chance they’d hire him.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
See, you CAN be a bit racist.
Twitterize me: @mykenk
by Mykenk on Nov 5, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Aside
We have these margarita glasses at work, they’re handblown glass. Back in the day, they used to come from China. On the side of the box it said “Mouthblown glass”. I thought that was funny. Even funnier, the glasses inside had shredded newspaper to help cushion them during transport. Oddly, it was Spanish, not Chinese.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 5, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
interesting that they would ship newspaper from mexico (or spain?) to china just to serve as packing paper
no spanish colonies in that area, are there? mostly dutch and english, right?
I suppose its possible it ships to Mexico, and then is repackaged.
and/or Spain. And/or Venezuela. Etc.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 5, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
It is possible the pieces were made in seperate locations
and assembled in a Spanish speaking county. Hence Made in America is sometimes really, Assembled in America with foreign parts.
BCB: Pointless Exercises in Devils Advocacy
by Jeo on Nov 5, 2010 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Thus Hyundai
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 5, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't know hyundais were made with mouth blown glass
that explains a lot:P
by PagsBrewCrew on Nov 5, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Recity
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 5, 2010 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions
and Yovanni Gallardo
BCB: Pointless Exercises in Devils Advocacy
by Jeo on Nov 5, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Ramalamarec
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 5, 2010 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Due to the Mug
Comment withdrawn
BCB: Pointless Exercises in Devils Advocacy
by Jeo on Nov 5, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I take it he wanted the 3 Sept. starts at SS that went to Counsell
And maybe Inglett’s one start at second.
I never use a big word when a diminutive word would suffice.
Maybe he should talk to Gamel about losing playing time to Counsell.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
i want to see nullacct photoshop
of the Luis Cruz race card.
Wait…maybe it’s a poor translation and he’s got Macha confused with NASCAR racecar afficianado Yost.
cmon
if he was white and had a good month, he’d be willie bloomquist.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Is it possible for Macha's response to not be, "POPPYCOCK!"?
Cruz added he was not aware that Bobby Valentine is a top candidate to replace Macha, stating, "It’s not known yet. Hopefully he’ll like Latinos and give me an opportunity." Cruz came to the Brewers last winter after being waived by the Pittsburgh Pirates.
The first story doesn’t give the quote where he implies that he didn’t play because Macha’s racist. They link to a story about the article that gives the above quote. So, when i was reading it, I thought.. maybe Macha actually said racist things to him, and Cruz wasn’t basing the claim off of playing time at all. But that quote above seems to clear it up.
What an idiot. Does he not know how the major leagues work? He also said something about having his best season in the US and then coming up and getting dragged around in the majors for a month. That’s how it works. When you’re a September callup, you should only be expecting to get garbage time. Especially if the starter at your position is a rookie and the team’s future at said position.
http://www.mlbsoup.com
Does he not know how the major leagues work?
You’d think he would considering he’s been a professional ballplayer for 10 years and has been with four different organizations.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Dear Luis Cruz
I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
I think we're overlooking something
Cruz hadn’t been with the club that long, and he was on the depth chart behind another Hispanic at SS – this is probably something that was being talked about between players. And let’s go back to the talking point earlier that there were no Spanish-speaking coaches on this club – sometimes basic exclusion and/or poor communication can create all sorts of issues.
It would definitely be a good idea to have some Spanish speaking coaches on the staff...
There’s obviously no way of knowing exactly why he accused Macha of being racist. I think we’re assuming it was because he didn’t get much playing time but it’s certainly possible that that isn’t what he’s referring to. Who knows, maybe he is racist, I don’t think any of us would be in any position to know one way or the other.
Has anyone tried a search to see if that’s something Macha has been accused of in the past by his players?
I remember reading that Kendall didn’t like the guy but I never heard a real explanation as to why that was. I thought it had more to do with his managerial style. Not that Kendall is a minority but he still may have seen or heard things he didn’t approve of coming from Macha in that regard.
For your health!
GRIT is a minority
discuss.
Too close for missiles, I’m switching to Ueck.
There could be other reasons.
Cruz added he was not aware that Bobby Valentine is a top candidate to replace Macha, stating, “It’s not known yet. Hopefully he’ll like Latinos and give me an opportunity.” Cruz came to the Brewers last winter after being waived by the Pittsburgh Pirates.
But he’s clearly implying that he thinks he didn’t get playing time as a direct result of Macha’s racism. Macha might be a card carrying klan member. He might have pictures of Hitler in his wallet. But he definitely doesn’t determine playing time by the color of a player’s skin, or the level of English that he speaks.
http://www.mlbsoup.com
I hadn't read that
That’s just stupid.
No way Cruz can expect to be given much if any playing time in the Majors when he can’t even perform in the minors. Maybe he should try his luck with a different sport or at least a different team.
For your health!
Let us be very clear on one thing.
Cruz sucks. Cruz has sucked and will continue to suck. His “big” year this year was a .281/.309/.414/.723 line as a 26 year old in his 5th partial season in AAA. His career AAA numbers make Carlos Gomez’s MLB numbers look good. Sorry dude you suck. Please do us all a favor and retire so we don’t have to deal with your ungrateful ass.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
by cooper82 on Nov 5, 2010 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
To be fair
He’s an excellent defender who plays multiple positions. But he is absolutely worthless offensively, and by getting one September PA he got one more than he deserved.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
If he played for an AL team they would DH for him instead of the pitcher.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
by cooper82 on Nov 6, 2010 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rec-a-saurus
Too close for missiles, I’m switching to Ueck.
I am aware that you can't DH for a position player.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
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