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Around SBN: Sixers Vs. Celtics: Countdown To Game Seven

Wednesday's Frosty Mug

Some things to read while spinning.

Well, we have a new Brewer this morning, although it's probably not the one any of us were hoping for. The team has signed catcher Wil Nieves, recently non-tendered by the Nationals, to a major league deal (FanShot). Nieves appeared in 59 games for the Nats last season and hit .203/.244/.310. All told, he's a 33 year old with a .227/.273/.297 career slash line. Jaymes Langrehr of The Brewers Bar may have been understating it by calling him "a terrible catcher." I have no idea what the Brewers see in him, but I guess you can pencil him in to the competition for the backup job.

Elsewhere, reaction to the Marcum/Lawrie deal continues to trickle in:

Time is starting to run out for the Brewers to acquire a second starting pitcher this week. Wisconsin Sports Tap makes the case that going all in for Zack Greinke makes sense, and puts together a package of five prospects to offer.

By the way, WST also has a guide to this week's Winter Meeting lingo, if you're having a hard time keeping up.

Elsewhere in rumors, there's a report out there that the Brewers and Rays have discussed a deal that would bring pitcher Matt Garza to Milwaukee (FanShot). Garza was arbitration eligible for the first time in 2010 as a Super 2, which I believe means he's under team control for three more seasons. He's made 30 or more starts and posted an ERA under 4 for the Rays each of the last three seasons.

Meanwhile, Doug Melvin is slowly backing away from the cavalcade of injury reclamation projects. While admitting that he could come back to them later, he told Adam McCalvy he's not pursuing Jeff Francis, Brandon Webb, Chris Young, Rich Harden or Brad Penny at this point. Jaymes Langrehr seconded the team's apparent lack of interest in Harden.

Ron Roenicke's turn at the podium came up yesterday, and he told reporters he anticipates having Prince Fielder with the team this spring. John Steinmiller has the full transcript, if you're interested.

Here's some other winter meeting minutiae:

In the minors:

  • Marc Hulet of FanGraphs posted his ranking of the top ten prospects in the Brewer organization, and has Jake Odorizzi replacing Brett Lawrie at #1.
  • Minor League Baseball Prospects unveiled their list of baseball's top 2000 prospects for 2010. Jake Odorizzi is now the top Brewer at #124, and Scooter Gennett, Caleb Gindl, Kentrail Davis, Cameron Garfield, Jeremy Jeffress, Hunter Morris, Cutter Dykstra, Tyler Thornburg, Jimmy Nelson and Cody Scarpetta are also in the top 500, with 42 more Brewers ranked between 501 and 2000. Brett Lawrie was ranked #9 overall.
  • Cody Scarpetta is likely headed to AA to start 2011 and could be in line for a big season. He told his hometown paper (the Rockford Register) that a mid-season mechanical adjustment helped him regain his control in 2010. (h/t Battlekow)

Around baseball:

Cardinals: Avoided arbitration with infielder Ryan Theriot, who will earn $3.3 million in 2011.
Cubs: Reportedly signed first baseman Carlos Pena to a one year, $10 million deal.
Dodgers: Signed outfielder Tony Gwynn Jr. to a one year, $675,000 deal and pitcher Vicente Padilla to a one year, $2 million deal.
Indians: Signed catcher Paul Phillips to a minor league deal.
Mets: Signed reliever D.J. Carrasco to a two year deal and catcher Ronny Paulino to a one year, $1.3 million deal.
Padres: Signed pitcher Dustin Moseley to a one year, $900,000 deal.
Pirates: Signed outfielder Matt Diaz to a two year deal.
White Sox: Re-signed first baseman Paul Konerko to a three year, $37.5 million deal.

Today in former Brewers:

We're living in the golden age of sabermetric concepts made easier to understand via well-drawn graphics, folks. Beyond the Box Score has the latest: a visual representation of the change in run expectation in various base/out conditions.

On this day in 1991 the major league career of Brewer reliever Julio Machado came to a sudden and surprising end, as he was arrested for murder in Venezuela. Machado served 12 years in prison for shooting a passenger in the other car following an accident.

On this day in 1997 the Brewers traded pitchers Ben McDonald, Ron Villone and Mike Fetters to the Indians for pitcher Jeff Juden and outfielder Marquis Grissom.

Happy birthday today to 1992-95 Brewer coach Tim Foli, who turns 60.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm headed off to a vintage furniture store three states away. (h/t @Massaconsin)

Drink up.

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10 million bucks for a guy who batted under the Uecker line...

The Cubs are insane to make that deal if you ask me.
I hope he continues to suck that bad for them.

For your health!

by menchkins on Dec 8, 2010 11:00 AM CST reply actions  

Thank you Jim Hendry

He is the gift that just keeps giving…

by Saberilliterate on Dec 8, 2010 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

I just wish it was more than a 1 year deal.

But thank you Alfonso Soriano and Milton Bradley, your work is appreciated.

Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.

by Yar Nivek on Dec 8, 2010 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

The reason it's not more than 1 year

Is they are almost assuredly going to be going after Fielder / Gonzalez / Pujols next year.
Pujols isn’t going anywhere and I’d bet that the Sox lock up Gonzalez so it’s entirely likely that Fielder will end up on the Cubs. They are really good at overpaying for players so my bet is, they win the sweepstakes on him.

For your health!

by menchkins on Dec 8, 2010 11:42 AM CST up reply actions  

No, that's not why this is a 1 year deal

Its a 1 year deal because Pena’s agent is Scott Boras, and this is what Boras does. He gets the best possible 1-year deal for someone who had a ‘down year’, hopes for a turn-around, and then the following season looks for 3/50.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2010 3:52 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Right

See Adrian Beltre

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Dec 8, 2010 3:59 PM CST up reply actions  

He's kind of a special case

His on base percentage and power numbers more than make up for his average. His defense is also really good. For one year, I think its a great deal for them.

by Mr. Saturn on Dec 9, 2010 2:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Right?

It’s unreal. Ten Million. I would be sooooo pissed if Melvin did that (ahem Gagne)

The Cubs would have been better off going with Branyan. They’s likely get more production for less than half the money.

Craziness.

For your health!

by menchkins on Dec 8, 2010 11:06 AM CST reply actions  

Wil Nieves!

We’re saved!

"Special teams means special times, bros"

by schmita91 on Dec 8, 2010 11:08 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

Report that Braves and Brewers still talking trade

Brewers want Minor for Cain, Braves say “humbug!”, Brewers say “Gomez?”, Braves say “eh, maybe…” (not for Minor, someone else)

If the Braves will give up anything decent for Gomez, Melvin should dance around for 10 minutes then call him back.

"I signed with the Milwaukee Braves for three-thousand dollars. That bothered my dad at the time because he said he didn't have that kind of dough." - Ueck

by GormanBraun28 on Dec 8, 2010 11:11 AM CST reply actions  

Good point

Then he needs to say “no givsies backsies!”

"I signed with the Milwaukee Braves for three-thousand dollars. That bothered my dad at the time because he said he didn't have that kind of dough." - Ueck

by GormanBraun28 on Dec 8, 2010 11:20 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

haha rec

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2010 3:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Unless what they offer is totally useless.

In which case I think Gomez should spend the year at AAA.
You never know, maybe he can figure something out.
We was pretty much rushed to the majors, maybe he just needs more time to work on his hitting in a lower pressure situation.

That’s me being very optimistic.

For your health!

by menchkins on Dec 8, 2010 11:28 AM CST up reply actions  

That something useless is also probably cheaper.

Since Gomez is in his arbitration years and will probably get around $1.5MM

by Noah Jarosh on Dec 8, 2010 11:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Is that you Mykenk?

You know Ryan Braun had 864 PAs in the minors before being called up, Carlos Gomez had 1134?

Just sayin’.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2010 3:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2010 6:35 PM CST up reply actions  

I dont see the Braves taking on Gomez

But Cain for Minor is a nice trade. All in all it would probably a wash as far as overall effect on the w-l record though.

by backtocali on Dec 8, 2010 11:38 AM CST up reply actions  

You may not see it...

But Wren is considering it.

"I signed with the Milwaukee Braves for three-thousand dollars. That bothered my dad at the time because he said he didn't have that kind of dough." - Ueck

by GormanBraun28 on Dec 8, 2010 12:15 PM CST up reply actions  

If not for Minor why do it then?

Minor or Lowe are about the only two guys the Braves will probably give up that are worth something, and if they dont like Cain for Minor, they probably dont want Gomez for Minor either.

And if it is Gomez, it wouldnt be him alone, and it would probably have to include a decent prospect along with it, so why do it at all? The team only has one premium prospect left in its system, and if you give him up (if it hasnt happened already) they are looking at one of the worst farm systems in the game (bottom 10).

by backtocali on Dec 8, 2010 12:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Any one of them come to mind

If it were anything but Odirizzi I would be fine with that.

I would even accept a Gomez/Rogers/Heckathorn type deal for Minor, although thats a bit of an overpayment probably

by backtocali on Dec 8, 2010 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Not to press the panic button

But I’d be surprised if the minor league system isn’t in the bottom ten right now, even with Odorizzi. The FanGraphs link listed above has them at #24.

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Dec 8, 2010 2:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Probably true

But I figured that the depth of arms in the system, although almost devoid of impact talent would put them in the 18 or 19 range. Kind of a scary thought.

by backtocali on Dec 8, 2010 2:49 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't read too much into that

You never know who’s going to blossom and who isn’t. There are some mighty good players out there who were drafted very low, and took a few years in the minors to develop. I’m sure the “experts” ranked the Angels’ draft in ’84 pretty low, and their #1 Erik Pappas ended up playing 7 years in AAA – but tucked back in rounds 15 and 17 were a couple of unheralded players in Chuck Finley and Dante Bichette. We drafted a whole bunch of tall pitchers this year – 28 pitchers – a couple of them will probably turn out to be players.

by nullacct on Dec 8, 2010 4:03 PM CST up reply actions  

The draft isn't what ranked #24

The entire Brewer farm system ranked #24.

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Dec 8, 2010 4:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I feel like we all sort of knew that was the State of the Farm

which is primarily why I am not a big fan of the Lawrie/Marcum trade.

I can be objective enough to say that I think its rather fair, slightly favoring Toronto, but that doesn’t mean I think it was the smart thing to do. The team is immediately better, that’s good.

Hopefully 2 picks in the top 16 this year will be very, very good.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2010 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Based on the value of all the prospects

Of which we only have an estimated value, based on college performance and competition among each other, while they continue to develop. It’s an educated guess. It directly affects our ability to trade using prospects, but how all the players turn out is completely unknown.

by nullacct on Dec 8, 2010 4:11 PM CST up reply actions  

I wanted the Brewers to trade Escobar a couple of years back and hold onto Hardy

I think Escobar was a top 15 or even top 10 prospect at that time. Hasn’t worked out all that well so far.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2010 4:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Hardy is of course the better player and still under team control for a little bit, but the savings on his salary plus the non-resign of Cameron were what the Brewers needed to sign Wolf. Looking back on it, though, it sucks that Hardy hit so poorly right before we traded him otherwise he could have actually netted a decent return. Ultimately, the money-bind made it necessary to trade him then instead of keeping him for one more year and letting him rebound, upping his value.

by Mr. Saturn on Dec 9, 2010 2:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Cain for Minor? There’s absolutely no way in hell that deal gets done. Minor was the #8 pick two years ago, is a top-50 prospect, and is under control for 6 years.

"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel

by Scott Coleman on Dec 8, 2010 2:03 PM CST up reply actions  

so you are saying you want Gomez right?

BCB: Pointless Exercises in Devils Advocacy

by Jeo on Dec 8, 2010 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Have you seen what Cain has done so far?

At the very least he is going to be an average defender and bat in CF, and if not for injury would be a top 50 prospect right now as well. At the very best he is probably an above average CF/OF compared very well with Minor for the same length of team control and production.

by backtocali on Dec 8, 2010 2:47 PM CST up reply actions  

What changed with your evaluation of Cain?

Not too long ago you said Cain’s defense was better suited for a corner OF position or 4th OF – now he’s going to be average at the very least, possibly above average and a top 50 prospect?

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Dec 8, 2010 3:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I do still feel

That he is probably better suited as a plus RF, than average CF, but of course there is more value in the latter. I dont think he is ever going to have a ton of power, but if he can hit .270 with line drive power and get on base at a nice clip he winds up being a nice player. The reason I would perhaps call him a 4th OF is that those corner spots usually require average to plus power and I dont think he has that, although his defense is plus there.

Cain I believe was on track for a latter half of the top 50 ranking the season after he was injured in AA (Cant exactly remember what level he was at) but that lost year and his age kind of drop him off of those types of lists.

I like the kid. I think if you can get 2 to 3 WAR type of production out of him while he is here it will be right on track with what I think about him currently. I do still believe, though, that if Gomez learns how to effectively use his bat at least to average ability, he is an all star production player (4+ WAR simply because of his defense).

by backtocali on Dec 8, 2010 3:24 PM CST up reply actions  

So does this mean Tampa Bay takes a closer look at Fielder?

Not saying they would bite on a one-year rental, but might they think a little more about sacrificing a little pitching for an upgrade at 1B for 2011?

"Sometimes I feel like an idiot...but I am an idiot, so it kinda works out."

by Mr. Funk on Dec 8, 2010 11:12 AM CST reply actions  

They would have last July probably

and flipped him this offseason, but I just dont see them taking on a contract that big. The better bet would be getting Garza or Shields for Cain or a Gamel/someone else package.

by backtocali on Dec 8, 2010 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

No THAT would be the way to go.

If we can trade Gamel and a few other prospects (without losing any of our top pitching prospects) and pick up a guy like Garza…. I think this team would be playoff bound.
(assuming health obviously)

For your health!

by menchkins on Dec 8, 2010 11:44 AM CST up reply actions  

the rays are slashing payroll,. so the only way that happens is if we eat a nice chunk of fielder's salary.

I would think that if they can get fielder for relatively cheap, he looks very attractive to them.

http://www.mlbsoup.com

by tcyoung on Dec 8, 2010 12:33 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Probably would have to send at least $8 million over to make it work for them

And then you still only get Garza or Shields. But this way you get a decent prospect as well, which from the Rays would be a nice thing to have.

by backtocali on Dec 8, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Same here

they have about 3 different pitching prospects that would probably slide in as the #1 prospect in the Brewer system if that were to happen.

Alex Torres and Alexander Colome come immediately to mind.

by backtocali on Dec 8, 2010 1:00 PM CST up reply actions  

From MLBTR
Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports speculate that it could make sense for the Angels to sign Lee and then trade one of Jered Weaver or Ervin Santana to acquire some offense and help offset Lee’s salary.

We have offense! I was looking more at Weaver. Maybe the Angels need an upgrade at 1B?

"Special teams means special times, bros"

by schmita91 on Dec 8, 2010 11:25 AM CST reply actions  

I see

Weaver made 4.25 million in 2010, and certainly pitched well enough to earn more in arbitration in 2011 and 2012. However, I wouldn’t mind getting Weaver for 6-8M a year for 2 years if we have to move Fielder for him. What do you think?

"Special teams means special times, bros"

by schmita91 on Dec 8, 2010 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd probably do that.

It would be great to have Weaver in the rotation and that would make this team a contender for sure.

Though we might want to have a back up plan for first base in case Gamel sucks so much he can’t play third… or first…. or the outfield.

I think if we are able to add another good starter WITHOUT losing Fielder though, this team has a serious chance of contending.

For your health!

by menchkins on Dec 8, 2010 11:39 AM CST up reply actions  

I dont think Fielder's $16 million is really going to offset much if that is their goal

They might like McGehee though, now a McGehee for Weaver or Santana deal would be very nice as a sell high proposition. Dont forget they still have Kendry Morales to play 1B.

by backtocali on Dec 8, 2010 11:45 AM CST up reply actions  

DH

Fielder could presumably DH for them though. What about packaging Fielder and Gamel for Napoli and one of the pitchers maybe we pick up a little salary?

by Trent Durrington on Dec 8, 2010 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

The big problem with that

Is that I dont think any team wants to pay $16 million for a DH. If they Angels are looking to alleviate some salary pressure, and they pick up Cliff Lee, they most likely would move Ervin Santana.

If the Brewers sent say Fielder and $8 million over to the Angels, I dont think it would be too much to expect to ask for Santana and Napoli.

by backtocali on Dec 8, 2010 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Not to pile on you

But I’m dead set against any Fielder trade that nets a first baseman in return. I’d much rather spend that return value on something usable and play Gamel/McGehee/Hart/Braun at first.

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Dec 8, 2010 2:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm with you.

I want Gamel to play first base when Fielder leaves.

by Noah Jarosh on Dec 8, 2010 3:28 PM CST up reply actions  

What happens to Kendry Morales, then?

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2010 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

No, I thought the Brewers were

Trading Gamel, Odorizzi, and a bunch of shit to the Royals for Greinke. Since apparently two B-ish prospects, and a bunch of throw-in guys will get it done.

/sarcasm

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2010 4:11 PM CST up reply actions  

i know you're joking

but the royals have a some 1B-DH types, so they’d probably shy away from such shenanigans.

by Capt Science on Dec 8, 2010 4:29 PM CST up reply actions  

love jered weaver

good pitcher for my fantasy team last year, not to mention he is well above the height requirements to be a brewers pitcher.

by BrewerBlue87 on Dec 8, 2010 6:16 PM CST up reply actions  

wow

All of the top 6 (and 8 of the top 10) prospects in our system are pitchers. I know that part of it is just a general depletion of bats, but it’s a pretty nice change. Probably no real #1’s, but I’d guess we’ll get at least two solid mid rotation or backend starters from that list (which doesn’t even include another option, Amaury Rivas) to supplement Yo over the next few years.

by rob deer's moustache will destroy us all on Dec 8, 2010 12:03 PM CST reply actions  

McGehee

Casey McGehee wins for earliest player to be “in the best shape of his life” this off season.

by Trent Durrington on Dec 8, 2010 12:09 PM CST reply actions  

Saw that = )

He really wanted to get that in there before anyone else apparently.

For your health!

by menchkins on Dec 8, 2010 12:25 PM CST up reply actions  

In the Brewer organization, yes

But Calcaterra’s been making a point of noting every “best shape of his life” this offseason, and McGehee is about the 4th or 5th.

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Dec 8, 2010 2:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Kottaras had about the same stat line as Nieves last year

Nieves actually had a better caught stealing % then Kottaras.

Nationwide Writer for SBNation's Nascar Ranting & Raving (www.4ever3blog.com)
"A ringing single for David Eckstein who, in my view, is the perfect size for an American male." -Bob Costas

by Troy J. on Dec 8, 2010 12:25 PM CST reply actions  

I know

That’s scary

For your health!

by menchkins on Dec 8, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Huh?

203/244/310 < 203/305/396

by klwillis45 on Dec 8, 2010 12:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Caught Stealing % is the main thing you look for in a catcher

Batting Average and OPS is great, but sadly it’s not the main thing that most GMs look for. A slugging Catcher is hard to find.

Nationwide Writer for SBNation's Nascar Ranting & Raving (www.4ever3blog.com)
"A ringing single for David Eckstein who, in my view, is the perfect size for an American male." -Bob Costas

by Troy J. on Dec 8, 2010 2:17 PM CST up reply actions  

agreed

Nationwide Writer for SBNation's Nascar Ranting & Raving (www.4ever3blog.com)
"A ringing single for David Eckstein who, in my view, is the perfect size for an American male." -Bob Costas

by Troy J. on Dec 8, 2010 2:21 PM CST up reply actions  

We sure hear a lot about it though!

Nationwide Writer for SBNation's Nascar Ranting & Raving (www.4ever3blog.com)
"A ringing single for David Eckstein who, in my view, is the perfect size for an American male." -Bob Costas

by Troy J. on Dec 8, 2010 2:20 PM CST up reply actions  

No

What is the caught stealing % of the tool that catches Tim Wakefield?

by Saberilliterate on Dec 8, 2010 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

never underestimate the power of defense

Kottaras can hit for more power than Nieves, sure, but if you’re looking for a backup catcher the wee difference in OPS may not make up for said better-hitting catcher being a defensive black hole.

by morineko on Dec 8, 2010 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

147 points is not a wee difference.

And WN may suck less on D than GK.

But he still sucks.

by klwillis45 on Dec 8, 2010 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

That's for sure

Neither are all that great. Although, Kottaras is still young, so he could improve on the hitting.

Nationwide Writer for SBNation's Nascar Ranting & Raving (www.4ever3blog.com)
"A ringing single for David Eckstein who, in my view, is the perfect size for an American male." -Bob Costas

by Troy J. on Dec 8, 2010 2:19 PM CST up reply actions  

OK, let me re-state this

the Brewers need a backup catcher who isn’t Kottaras or Nieves. Nieves, on further investigation, isn’t that much of a defensive improvement. Roenicke is probably frustrated as heck that the Brewers, unlike the Angels, don’t really have a proper backup catcher.

by morineko on Dec 8, 2010 12:53 PM CST reply actions  

Doumit is available

Doubt he’d accept a back-up role but he’s pretty good and pretty affordable.

For your health!

by menchkins on Dec 8, 2010 1:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Yikes.

Doumit wishes he was as good behind the dish as Kottaras.

by klwillis45 on Dec 8, 2010 1:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Braves

I don’t see Frank Wren giving up Minor for Cain, and they will shy away from Gomez’ OBP shortcomings.

So, if forced to choose, would you prefer:

Cain for Beachy. Straight up.
OR
Kawakami 1 year rental at $3 million for an A ball prospect / bag of balls.

by infield fly on Dec 8, 2010 1:11 PM CST reply actions  

If Gomez counts as a bag of balls

I think I’d be happy to trade him for Kawakami; this is a gut feel response, though, so I’d be happy to hear arguments to the contrary.

I had a link here to my blog, but it's now defunct and I guess I've lost the URL. Currently taking suggestions for a new signature.

by Lefti on Dec 8, 2010 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Who is Beachy?

Kawakami doesnt do much for me. I see him as a swingman/#5 at best, so why waste any money or a prospect on a guy you can pick up from the AAA roster or scrap heap?

If Beachy is Mike Minor, I dont mind the deal, I think its a pretty even trade slightly favoring the Brewers. I think Gomez still has some hope left in him. for a guy to give you over 1 WAR in only half a season while not hitting at all, he will give you at least average for a full season of defense, and an improvement in his batting ability a Franklyn Gutierrez 09 type of season.

by backtocali on Dec 8, 2010 1:25 PM CST up reply actions  

I believe that's Brandon Beachy

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players//b/beachbr01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=beache001bra

I don’t know enough about him (and don’t have time to research him just yet) to have an opinion on trading him, but I am loathe to trade Cain. I’m probably overvaluing him, but I’d really want a lot for him.

I had a link here to my blog, but it's now defunct and I guess I've lost the URL. Currently taking suggestions for a new signature.

by Lefti on Dec 8, 2010 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Brandon Beachy was an undrafted free agent in 2008.

He’s 24, pitched pretty well in three starts in the majors last year and has a very, very good minor league track record. There’s a good write up on him here. Sounds like he’s more of a Marcum than a Gallardo. I wouldn’t mind trading for him at all.

by Noah Jarosh on Dec 8, 2010 1:40 PM CST up reply actions  

You lost me at undrafted free agent

Lefti, I’ve got Cain’s value at about $15 million surplus, which isnt bad, not all star, not horrible, but solid for 5 years of control. I think it would be silly to give him up for anything less than a quality pitcher for 5 years of control

by backtocali on Dec 8, 2010 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Sure.

But there’s been new data since his (non)draft.

Adjust your numbers, scouting reports can & do change.

by klwillis45 on Dec 8, 2010 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

This is true

But, Sickels tends to rely a bit too much on numbers in his scouting reports, and does tend to over value a guy with great results but has bad opinion from scouts on mechanics, etc….even so, calls him a #4 or reliever.

Cain is worth a heck of a lot more than him.

by backtocali on Dec 8, 2010 2:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Bayesian Analysis...

Consider using it.

Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.

by Yar Nivek on Dec 8, 2010 7:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Using that logic

The Brewers should go hard after Brian Bullington, Tim Beckham and Matt Bush because #1 overall draft picks have a high rate of being impact players in the majors.

I ultimately don’t even care, it just seems bizarre that you would dismiss a guy’s scouting report and minor league stats because of where he was or was not drafted.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Dec 8, 2010 2:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Cain for Beachy seems very fair.

"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel

by Scott Coleman on Dec 8, 2010 2:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Probably not Schafer, but a decent C-level guy or two could probably be had.

"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel

by Scott Coleman on Dec 8, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions  

and the other 29 teams in baseball don’t?

"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel

by Scott Coleman on Dec 8, 2010 3:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, they do

why would we want yours? You don’t want ours…

Twitterize me: @mykenk

by Mykenk on Dec 8, 2010 5:49 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

best shape of his life...

I’ve been going after spherical. It’s the perfect shape. I happen to be a long way from obtaining it though

by PagsBrewCrew on Dec 8, 2010 1:27 PM CST reply actions  

Minor League Baseball's top 2000 prospects

At which point in the list do you think they just gave up arguing over the exact position of each player? Considering Brent Brewer is number 1985…

"I hope your name is Rick"

by MrLeam on Dec 8, 2010 2:52 PM CST reply actions  

As this is the only real baseball blog I read

I’ll assume that they’re all similar to BCB, and therefore, there’s constant fighting, down to the 2000th spot, followed by debate on who got left off and who was misranked.

Twitterize me: @mykenk

by Mykenk on Dec 8, 2010 2:58 PM CST up reply actions  

I am fine with the comment

I just think it should be in a different spot.

BCB: Pointless Exercises in Devils Advocacy

by Jeo on Dec 8, 2010 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

You're spelling is a off

Cause it’s not the interwebs without some douche nitpicking grammar.

When there is a scuffle in Ireland, there’s no need to specifically mention in the news story that alcohol was involved

by Getting Yosted on Dec 8, 2010 4:13 PM CST up reply actions  

you're right

he meant “your bath wong”

by PagsBrewCrew on Dec 8, 2010 4:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Is this
You’re spelling is a off

sarcasm?

I can’t tell.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2010 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

You know who else couldn't discern sarcasm?

Hitler.

I read it once on Wikipedia, so it has to be true.

When there is a scuffle in Ireland, there’s no need to specifically mention in the news story that alcohol was involved

by Getting Yosted on Dec 8, 2010 4:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe this has been hashed out previously

But why isn’t the most likely Greinke trade proposal(at least for the Brewers) a Fielder plus Cain deal, with Fielder going to a third team and the prospects going to the Royals?

When there is a scuffle in Ireland, there’s no need to specifically mention in the news story that alcohol was involved

by Getting Yosted on Dec 8, 2010 4:18 PM CST reply actions  

Three team trades are increasingly rare.

I suppose it’s possible, but it’s too much of a long shot to be considered “the most likely.”

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Dec 8, 2010 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd agree here

and I’m not sure that even gets it done. If I was the Royals, I’d want 5 pitching prospects for Greinke—at LEAST 1 A or 5 star, if not 2.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2010 4:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Although to be fair Dayton Moore runs the Royals

so its possible that the Brewers could send Fielder+Cain, a third team could send a prospect or two, and the Brewers could end up with Greinke and Kila Ka’aihue and Alex Gordon.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2010 4:24 PM CST up reply actions  

I guess I thinking “most likely to assemble a package to actually get Greinke, as opposed to the assemblage of fringy toolsy guys the Brewers have above AA”. I refuse to believe the Royals are dumb enough to take a package centered around High A guys for Greinke, no matter how much all actual evidence shows that they are that dumb.

When there is a scuffle in Ireland, there’s no need to specifically mention in the news story that alcohol was involved

by Getting Yosted on Dec 8, 2010 4:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Dayton Moore just signed Jeff Francoeur

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2010 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Matt Klaasen over at Fangraphs

has a good story on Moore.

Here’s the meat and ’taters:

First, the four worst hitters hitters (by wOBA) among qualified players from 2008-2010.

127. Pedro Feliz, .284 wOBA
126. Jason Kendall, .288 wOBA
125. Yuniesky Betancourt, .291 wOBA
124. Jeff Francoeur, .298 wOBA

Now, the least valuable three (qualified) position players by FanGraphs WAR, 2008-2010:

127. Jose Guillen, -1.1 WAR
126. Yuniesky Betancourt, -0.8 WAR
125. Jeff Francoeur, 0.0 WAR

It makes you think anything is possible if Dayton Moore is involved.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2010 4:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not sure if this was in reply to my comment

where i said:

at LEAST 1 A or 5 star, if not 2.

if it is, then I think you’re misunderstanding “1 A”. Not as in, “A ball”, as in “A grade”.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2010 4:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Cain

I think Cain for Beachy straight up or Cain + another prospect for Minor are both good deals. Other than probably Garza, it’s the only realistic option they have at getting a good pitcher. Cain hasn’t proved enough for me to say he’s a legit major leaguer. Beachy seems to me to have more upside than the pundits give him credit for. Minor has had his control issues, but still projects pretty high. My only concern with him is can he be successful in the league as a left handed control pitcher? He doesn’t have blow you away stuff and he could either be very successful and fool hitters, or he could just get lit up against major league bats. For my money, I’ll take the risk on a left handed SP as a opposed to a right handed CF.

I still do like Cain, just if you can get something good for him than do it.

by jmeks23 on Dec 8, 2010 6:24 PM CST reply actions  

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