Hart wins arbitration case, will earn $4.8 million.
Sometimes, there are no words.
about 2 years ago
Kyle Lobner
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Face Palm
I look forward to his quotes about how “The fans suck” and “It’s hard to play at MP”. That’s because we remember things like this Corey, and your play doesn’t deserve the raise.
I normally don’t boo the team at all, even when deserved. But I might boo Hart. He can take that raise and go to therapy..grow a bit of a thicker skin.
Who needs thicker skin
The guy who made one (not unreasonable) comment about fans booing at Miller Park, or the fans who are still complaining about it two years later?
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Feb 12, 2010 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
really?
you’ll boo him over a couple hundred thou? A panel of judges, who usually have backed the teams’ price, ended up backing the player’s price in this circumstance.
Boo the team for not having a powerful enough case in arbitration. Or boo the judges for finding the way they did given the evidence they had. Don’t boo the player that figured out his submitted dollar amount was closer to what an arbitration panel would find his value as than his team.
I’ll boo Hart if he a) does super poorly or b) takes a I-hate-Milwaukee attitude even if he gets what he wanted. I won’t boo Hart because he won a court case against his employer that both sides agreed to go to court for (the Brewers could have signed him at his $ amount, they could have refused arb and sent him packing, or they could have potentially bargained him down a bit from his spot).
by PagsBrewCrew on Feb 12, 2010 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
Really though what's he supposed to do, argue against himself?
I don’t blame him at all for this. Blame the system.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Feb 12, 2010 5:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes it is decided Hart will be this years Cammy
Going to be on him like white on rice. I cannot believe this A-hole won his hearing the system is broke.
Moving on ready look forward not backwards The 2009 season is over it never happen as far as I am concerned so lets boldly look forward to the 2010 season
Great, I'll look forward to constant ripping on Hart
Because your constant ripping on Cameron really made this blog enjoyable.
Get a ife broseph
Hardly a surprise
The team was willing to give him a $1 million raise anyway. Kind of undercut the “he doesn’t deserve that much” argument, especially when it’s over $650k, a drop in the bucket in baseball terms.
Maybe it will help?
Give him a better attitude going into spring training? Probably not, just searching for positives here.
Also, I don’t know how people can get mad at him or think that they need to be harder on him because he played within the system to get as much money as possible for his family. If you want to boo him, boo him for making comments 2 years ago, his awful facial hair or whatever, not for this.
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Feb 12, 2010 8:30 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
Agreed, to a point
Except he just moved from the “disappointing” category and into the “overpriced AND disappointing” one.
He reminds me a bit of the first time you see Dorn in Major League:
“I thought you said this team doesn’t have any high-priced talent?”
“I forgot Dorn, because he’s only high-priced.”
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
Except
If the Brewers thought he was overpriced they shouldn’t have signed him. I don’t get mad at Jeff Suppan for signing a huge contract, I get mad at Melvin for offering it to him.
Get a ife broseph
Did the Brewers actually sign him?
Just because the Arbiters ruled in favor of Hart, doesn’t mean that the Brewers have to sign him… or even keep him.
My understanding of the arbitration rules are that the Brewers have Hart for 1 yr/$4.8M. The contract is NOT guaranteed.
Here’s what I found here:
http://baseball.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_baseball_arbitration_works
“If the player is cut within 16 days before the season begins, he is entitled only to 30 days’ termination pay. If the player is cut during spring training but after the 16th day before the season begins, he is entitled only to 45 days’ termination pay.”
I'm assuming they won't cut him
I don’t think Melvin has made any moves to get a full time RF to take his place unless Gamel has been secretly working on his OF skills the past few months.
If its all about saving money I’d assume Bush would be the guy to go since Hart really doesn’t have a replacement.
Get a ife broseph
Agree
My response was to your statement:
“If the Brewers thought he was overpriced they shouldn’t have signed him.”
I was just clarifying that the Brewers didn’t sign him… the arbiters awarded Hart a 1 yr non-guaranteed contract. The Brewers are free to sign him to a bigger contract… it just has to meet that minimum amount.
Edmonds
I know it may sound crazy, but if Jim Edmonds has a stellar spring training and doesn’t mind playing right, we could dump Hart and stick with Jimmy Boy.
by rootsmaneuver on Feb 12, 2010 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
No
I don’t think Edmonds is an everyday option at 40.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
by Kyle Lobner on Feb 12, 2010 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
Lefties
They’re both left-handed hitters who do significantly worse against left-handed pitching. There’s no platoon there and they both could use a righty platoon partner.
by kingcharlesxii on Feb 12, 2010 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
Do the arbitrators issue a formal decision?
I’d sure like to read it, if they do. I’m available if the Brewers want to / can appeal …
Not surprised
Hopefully he can rebound this year and earn it
"A D+ Grade? That must have been a Wittardo grade"- @73_MC
I think he'll need to if he wants to stay in Milwaukee
If he has another down season, I don’t think DM will put up with potentially going into another hearing next year.
So, what is hart gonna buy me for fan appreciation night with all this extra cash?
I hope it’s a beer or two.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy."
-Sheriff Melvin
by sowingwildoats on Feb 12, 2010 8:34 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I like how our reaction is equal parts surprise and not surprised.
Follow: @mykenk. Read thoughts: http://mhenk.blogspot.com.
No surprise for me on this
I felt that he earned his money last year, and if projections for him hold true this year, this $4.8 million amount is a bargain. I don’t really understand the anger over this decision.
If we put this situation into our own personal terms, at our jobs, if you do your job and earn your pay, then you are probably due for a raise. If there is a value that is placed on your performance, you should be due that value. Overall, Hart has been underpaid. So this reward isnt too surprising and not too upsetting.
If we put this situation into our own personal terms, at our jobs, if you do your job and earn your pay, then you are probably due for a raise.
Agreed, but if we suck at our jobs, a 50% raise is probably out of the question.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
by Kyle Lobner on Feb 12, 2010 9:04 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Define "suck"
Yes I get it that he cant hit the outside pitch, that he has been a bit unreliable at times, and has not really been very happy the past couple of seasons in Milwaukee.
But if you agree with sabermetric values placed on a win, Hart’s performance last year, as bad as it was, was worth what he was paid.
Of course a player in his first 6 years is going to be underpaid according to those values, and the time to make up for that is in free agency where overpaying is the norm.
My guess is that the arbitrators figure he was soooo overpaid in his previous years, that the amount he was asking for was merited.
"a 50% raise"
To be fair, the Brewers gave most of that raise before the hearing began. It’s more like a 16% raise over what the Brewers wanted to pay him.
The flip side, though.
By siding with Hart, the arbitrators agreed that $4.8 million is fair market value for Hart’s services, or at least closer to fair market value than the $4.15 the Brewers offered.
If Hart had been a free agent this offseason, does anyone think he would have found $4.8 million on the open market? Have any free agents with Hart’s projected level of productivity made that?
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
I think the key phrase is...
“closer to fair market value than the $4.15 the Brewers offered”
My guess is that if the Brewers went into arbitration with a slightly higher offer, they might have won.
They've been watching
But they’ve been drinking everytime an old person commercial comes on.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
wrong game
Hart overbid, but he still got the prize. Everyone knows if you offer too much on price is right, even by a buck, you lose.
by PagsBrewCrew on Feb 12, 2010 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
Is that the point of the arbitration system though?
You can’t really get mad at it when the salaries of all minor leaguers (except the first rounders), and the salaries of major leaguers in their first three years of service, are artificially suppressed to help the teams.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
That's a strange way to look at it
Really, it’s just the difference between a 48% raise and a 28% raise. I think that’s the most fair way to look at it.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
agreed
I’ll take a 1% raise per day otherwise. That’s gotta be good for about 400% per year.
Raises over a period less than a year shouldn’t be considered incremental, but rather cumulative.
by PagsBrewCrew on Feb 12, 2010 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
also...
a pay raise is probably out of the question even if we do our jobs adequately, because our employer is having a tough time raising capital.
by PagsBrewCrew on Feb 12, 2010 3:50 PM CST up reply actions
Speak for yourself.
/Getting paid less to do the same work than when I started at this job four years ago
OK, done complaining.
by Cheeseandcorn on Feb 12, 2010 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
Dont get me started on that issue
Same thing going on here at my work….no raise for 2 years, increased work load, and the management response is “just be happy you still have a job”
in CA
I would have been furloughed…which theoretically means
a) I would have more (unpaid) holiday time
b) would get paid the same per hour
Practically, it meant I would still be working 50-60 hours per week, but rather than getting paid for 40, I’d get paid for 35 or so.
by PagsBrewCrew on Feb 12, 2010 5:12 PM CST up reply actions
Also not surprised
I am not surprised he won the hearing since most of the time the player wins, but based on that fact I am dissapointed in Corey Hart. This is because almost every player knows this yet most settle at a mid point. Not exactly what I call a team player, but he has made it well known all along that he isn’t interested in agreeing to any sort of deal with the Brewers. Having said that I hope he returns to the pre 2008 all star break Corey Hart.
The owners/teams actual hold the edge in "wins"
Going into this year it was 280-207 to the teams.
As TheJay says the difference of $650,000 is probably not going to make any difference to things over the course of the season. I am slightly surprised that Hart won the case but all that I hope for is a return to the 2007 version of Corey which is needed to help replace the lost of hitting from Cameron.
The Brewers should have used TSSC on as their lawyer.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Yeah
I considered mentioning that in the Mug, but I don’t know how long the KY ads will run.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
You gotta get one with the "Corey Hart Wins Arbitration Case" headline.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Good Job
Not having some inappropriate window up in your task bar…although I could’ve used such a laugh.
BCB, the preferred above replacement level sarcasm supplier.
by MadJimiBrewha on Feb 12, 2010 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
Whoaaaa...
SBnation has really sold out on the ads. Use firefox Adblock. You don’t even get background ads like that.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
Can we agree to hate the system on this one
instead of Corey or Melvin.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
I dont understand why everyone is mad at Hart
According to the economics of baseball Hart will be making exactly what his production in past years have been worth. He asked for an amount and got it. If it was too high the Brewer front office number would have been used.
Just saw TC’s post( as I was typing) and agree
How do you define what his "worth" is?
If you compare him to other players with the same service time, you could either state that he’s being overpaid or the others are being underpaid.
Here’s an interesting quote I found:
“Moreover, his filing figure of $4.8 million was the second highest of all outfielders with 4 years of service time behind only Shane Victorino.”
Honest question
If the Brewers had won the hearing, would anyone be complaining about Hart getting a raise?
I was just thinking about that.
I don’t think Hart winning this case changes people’s opinion of him – or at least mine. Even if he had lost the case, the fact that he asked for (what I would argue is) too much, refused to settle in the middle and took the team to arbitration is more important than the $650,000 it’s costing the team.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
I agree --
However, Hart may get non-tendered next year, pocketing that extra $650K may help him out when he is kicked out into the real market.
Taking shallowness to new depths -- FtJ's blog
by Fatter than Joey on Feb 12, 2010 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
Do we even know that the Brewers offered him the middle?
"You are only a success at the moment that you do a successful act"
-Tex Winter
No specific amounts were ever published
But it seems likely that the Brewers were willing to go higher, since that’s what happened with the other players who avoided arbitration.
Also, I found this on MLB.com (by McCalvy):
“The Brewers wanted a deal by the end of business Friday (1/29), and club negotiator Teddy Werner and Hart’s agent, Jeff Berry, had a series of discussions this week but were unable to reach an agreement.”
I would think that if the Brewers weren’t willing to budge from their number, there wouldn’t have been any additional discussions.
No, he wasn't offered a salary in the middle.
The midpoint of the figures was $4.475 million, which the Brewers thought was high and didn’t offer to Hart in negotiations
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
that doesn't mean anything
it just means the brewers weren’t willing to go exactly to the halfway point.
by PagsBrewCrew on Feb 14, 2010 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
What to do now?
Worse yet, the $650,000 this year means he’ll be getting a raise next year based on his “extra” $650,000 this year. The arbitration decision is going to cost the Brewers at least $1.3 M over this season and next. This lowers his trade value a notch which wasn’t terribly high in the first place. I don’t see the Brewers being able to trade him for anything worthwhile.
According to sjlee, the Brewers are on the hook for 30 days of Corey Hart’s contract if they cut him which equates to about $890k. That makes his asking price to other teams around $3.9 M for the year which quite a few teams would likely consider so the Brewers probably can’t cut him and resign him for less than $4.8 M.
So this begs the question, could the Brewers get someone this year for less than $9.4-$10 M over the next two years to replace his production? Probably not, but it’s worth looking around, right? Are there any free agent outfielders people would favorably look upon at 2 years at $9.5 M?
Yeah I did some research
Before the White Sox and Tigers got into a peeing match over Damon, he probably could’ve been signed for $13-$13.5 M over two years. Now it would be at least $15 M.
Not sure if you can look at it that way
Your point about the arbitration costing the Brewers at least $1.3M this year and next isn’t quite accurate. You’re assuming that they’re going to have to sign him next year as well.
It’s possible that the Brewers trade him during the season (if nothing else, for a couple of low level prospects). Who knows… maybe the Twins want to reunite Hart with Hardy so they can dye each other’s hair black when they struggle at the plate.
I think at this point, the Brewers are moving forward with Hart starting in RF this season. This does not mean, however, that they don’t start looking around for a replacement for the following season.
I am a bit disappointed by this.
Not that I don’t think Corey Hart is a terrible player, he is not. He just doesn’t deserve nearly 5 million for sub-par performance. He had one really good half season in a situation free of pressure. Now that he has to play like a 5 million dollar player, I can’t fathom the outcome.
With that said and what others have alluded to, there are still remedies to this situation. Brewers do not have to keep him during spring training, they can cut him within a certain time frame to minimize the damage.
But what I would like to see are opinions on players like Prince Fielder going into arbitration. He has to be drooling at the bit here seeing this outcome. If the Brewers don’t meet his numbers, he may have a field day at arb. Certainly Prince deserves a significant payday, but will the Brewers be able to afford it!
Looking to buy: General Manager Deputy Badge
by Bush League All Star on Feb 12, 2010 2:31 PM CST reply actions
I don't think the outcome of this particular hearing will impact Fielder very much.
Just because the arbiters sided with Hart, doesn’t automatically mean that they’ll side with the player every time the Brewers go to arbitration. It still comes down to which amount is closest to what the arbiters think is “fair”.
Fielder’s current contract goes through the 2010 season. If he has another season like last year or even one that comes close, he’ll probably get something in the neighborhood of $15-20M (close to what Ryan Howard is making).
I think Hart's a douche-bag.
But I hope he has a huge year. I’m not going to boo the guy for making more money, but I might boo him when he flails at pitches way out of the zone.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 12, 2010 6:32 PM CST reply actions
Hot Start
I believe Hart needs to get off to a very hot start more than any other player because of the arbitration, and the crappy season he had last year. Milwaukee will give this guy a chance because we are the most knowledgable and want our team to compete. If he swings at the slider 2 feer outside consistently he will get booed and deserve it. If he struggles early does Maccha have the balls to play Gerut or Gamel (if he tries the OF in spring training) I doubt it myself. I was hoping Gamel would switch to the outfield it didn’t seem to hurt Mr. Braun.
Rick Lang
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