Brewers Advent Calendar #5: Prince Fielder
by BrewHaHeather on Feb 15, 2010 4:00 PM CST
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PrintAnd behind door number five who do we find… why it's Prince Fielder!
We've all heard numerous times about the relationship between Prince and Cecil Fielder. But did you know that Cecil not only stole his son's money, he also thinks much more highly of his own baseball skills than his son's? Its true, just take a look at this video. According to Cecil, the only thing Prince does better than him is run.
But hold on now. Let’s take a look at their career numbers through 675 games.
| Cecil | Prince | |
| BA | .256 | .284 |
| H | 566 | 675 |
| 2B | 88 | 139 |
| 3B | 3 | 8 |
| HR | 157 | 160 |
| RBI | 460 | 453 |
| OPS | 854 | 934 |
While their home run and RBI totals are fairly similar, it is quite clear that Prince is a better overall hitter than Cecil. Prince is also outplaying his father at a much younger age.
Now lets take a look at another Brewers legend: Robin Yount. Let's compare their numbers through 675 games
| Yount | Fielder | |
| BA | .273 | .284 |
| H | 697 | 675 |
| 2B | 113 | 139 |
| 3B | 23 | 8 |
| HR | 23 | 160 |
| RBI | 240 | 453 |
| OPS | 670 | 934 |
And while Yount was much younger that Fielder through 675 games, many of their numbers are similar, with Fielder being the obvious winner in the power department. The big man is already tied for 8th on the Brewers all time home run list. If he is retained through the 2011 season, there's a good chance he could surpass Yount (251 HR) and take over the number one spot. A record that took Yount 20 seasons to set could take Prince a mere 6 full seasons. While I understand that Prince and Yount are completely different players, and I am in no way trying to say that Prince is a better overall player than Yount, we are watching one of the greatest players to ear Brewer blue.
So enjoy watching him while you still can Brewers fans, because your time to do so is probably running out.
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Let's not forget the most important stat of all
In the park home runs
Steve
http://nohuddleoffense.blogspot.com
Cecil was right
Prince does run better than him.
"A D+ Grade? That must have been a Wittardo grade"- @73_MC
by BrewHaHeather on Feb 15, 2010 4:22 PM CST up reply actions
That makes one of us
"A D+ Grade? That must have been a Wittardo grade"- @73_MC
by BrewHaHeather on Feb 15, 2010 4:46 PM CST up reply actions
Well, setting aside whether it's a good idea strategically or not
It just seems like the Brewers management would let the rest of the team disintegrate before letting Fielder or Braun walk. Even after a lousy 2009 the team still almost set a record for ticket sales, and I think they know that people aren’t lining up to see Gregg Zaun.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
Not yet!
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Feb 15, 2010 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Just wait for the Double D to Triple G ad campaign starts.
On the Border teams with the Brewers.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
I see it as a possibility
No Suppan+Fielder’s current salary=$22 MM… and then we still have $10 MM+Open from loosing the Bill Hall remainder and Riske’s salary, of course you have to add in arb cases, if memory serves me it’s Yovanni’s first arb year, but Gregg Zaun could be replaced by Lucroy or Salome, or both if we take an approach like the Rangers, but that’ll clear some money. Or Prince leaves and we sign a couple of big pitchers to make up for it
Don't forget that Braun's salary begins to escalate.
Gallardo will probably be locked up long term if Prince leaves, too.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
$22M will get you Fielder for one season.
Don’t forget, as time goes on, all the young guys on the team will start hitting arbitration, so their pay is going to go up as well. There’s also Braun’s salary too, which goes up $3M next season and about $2M every year after that.
If Fielder wants to stick around, he’ll take less money, but with Boras as his agent, that’s already an indication that he’s looking for a big payday.
There's quite a bit of payroll flexilibity if they want to use it
For example, in 2012 the team already will have 5/8 positional players, 3/5 starters, and a lot of the bullpen covered with less than $16 million committed and only four players later than their first year of arbitration (not counting whatever they decide to do with Gamel or minor leaguers like Lawrie who could be major league ready by then)
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
It's entirely possible that they could have all their money put into Braun, Fielder, Gallardo, and another big SP
and fill the rest of the hitters with young guys, for pennies. I’m gonna do a post about this sometime this week. We’ll shoot for Thursday.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
What are the PA comparisons through 675 games
for Prince, Cecil, and Robin?
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
They'll find the money
The Brewers are consistently 9th in attendance. They’re consistently 6th in group sales (which means more money committed earlier, which means more earning power for that money). In a year when many teams saw as much as 1/3 decrease in corporate sponsorships, the Brewers grew by 10% (Source? Tom Hecht, VP of corporate marketing). This team knows how to manage their money. Business-wise, this is one of the most expertly run franchises in not only MLB, but all professional sports. Considering some of the players due for free agency along with Prince (Ryan Howard comes to mind), His Majesty might just find that the Brewers have the best offer to keep him around at least as long as Ryan Braun is on the team.
Mike Bischoff
Milwaukee, WI
Other potential 2012 FAs first basemen...
Pujols (2011 option)
Berkman (2011 option)
Gonzalez (2011 option)
Helton (2012 option)
Helton will be 38 at the start of the 2012 season which means probably a 1-2 year bargain deal ala Mike Cameron’s deal with the Sox. Probably something similar for Berkman who will be 36 going into 2012. I would be pretty shocked if Pujols didn’t resign with the Cardinals. That leaves Fielder, Howard and Gonzalez. The Yankees have Teixeira so they probably dont’ need a 1B. Fielder is set to make some big money in my opinion.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
I could really see Fielder signing a 2 year ($25-$30M) deal next off season.
That would buy out 1 year of free agency for the team, and avoid him becoming a FA with those guys. (isn’t Ryan Howard in there too?)
Scott Boras may be a jacka$$ but he isnt an idiot and Prince will make the most money if he is the only premier first baseman/DH on the market.
by BrewCrewBrian on Feb 16, 2010 7:46 AM CST up reply actions
On Prince making more money in 2013, not necessarily.
If the big spender teams go out and get Howard and Gonzalez, the demand may well go down in 2013. And, if supply and demand both decrease, the effect on price is indeterminate.
Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.
2 years $25-30M is probably really low. Fielder should make $12M this year alone. He is probably looking at a minimum $15M in arbitration for 2011.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
Fielder makes 11M this year, so the 30 M was low (maybe wishful thinking).
by BrewCrewBrian on Feb 16, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
You are right $11M
For some reason I was thinking Fielder had a base pay of $11.5M not $10.5M.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
$20M
He’ll be a $20M a year guy, no doubt, but if the Brewers found that kind of money to offer Sabathia (5 for $100M), they’ll find it for Prince, with maybe a little extra tucked in there. Prince loves having Braun in the lineup with him, and he wouldn’t go to a team that didn’t have another A-list hitter like that. This is a guy that wants to win ballgames, and he knows to do that he needs other guys around him. If Milwaukee can show him that they’ll be fighting to compete every season that he’s here, then I think that escalates our opportunities, because there’s a matter of pride for some of these guys that they’re making Milwaukee a winner. Anyone can win in New York or Boston or wherever, but this is Milwaukee. It takes something special to have this kind of team here. I’m not suggesting Prince will retire a Brewer, but I do think he’ll last longer than popular opinion believes.
And if I had to pick a team he’d end up on, it would be San Francisco. He loves those splash-shots, and they love spending for superstars.
Mike Bischoff
Milwaukee, WI
There's a pretty significant difference between the Brewers offering Sabathia 5/$100MM
and them offering Fielder the same.
Going in, they knew the Yankees offer was going to blow 5/$100 out of the water. You don’t know that with Fielder. I still find it naive to think that the Sabathia offer was much more than a PR ploy.
I’m not saying that the Brewers don’t have the money to lock up Prince at $20/year, but I don’t think Sabathia is a fair comparison.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Not how they do business
The Brewers don’t offer contracts on speculation, or because they’re counting on it being turned down. If they offered the contract, then they found the money. There is no difference.
Mike Bischoff
Milwaukee, WI
Do you work in the front office?
If not, how can you make a statement like that?
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
I agree that it's not a fair comparison...
but not for the reason you mentioned. I think ace-caliber starting pitchers are worth much more than power-hitting first basemen… particularly to a small-market team like the Brewers.
In other words, I’m not sure if the Brewers are willing to give over 20% of the team salary to a first baseman… starting pitching maybe.
Like any responsible journalist, my cources are confidential. ;)
Cheekiness aside, it doesn’t take long to realize Doug Melvin doesn’t omit much from his post-script. When he says his offer is serious, and stands by it, I find it difficult to question his credibility.
Now, whether he really believed Sabathia would accept the contract is debatable—I’m sure none of us did—but to simply offer that contract is indication enough that the money was there. Mark Attanasio, specifically, isn’t one to horse around with money like that; to quote: “We did have a plan for CC,” he added. “The natural question is why didn’t you just do that for whoever else? It had to be a CC Sabathia-type player.”
Prince is a CC Sabathia-type player.
Mike Bischoff
Milwaukee, WI
Now, whether he really believed Sabathia would accept the contract is debatable—I’m sure none of us did—but to simply offer that contract is indication enough that the money was there.
You’re right, none of us did. The only people that thought he might accept were the ultra-casual fans. I have to assume DM and Mark A. didn’t think he would sign either. That means it was strictly a PR ploy. Sure, if he would have signed, they would honored the contract, but changes would have to have been made.
But think of the backlash the fans would have had if no offer was made whatsoever.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
The Old Days
It would have been like when players disappeared for no reason other than because the team didn’t want to pay them. We call these the Sal Bando years (as GM, not 3B). They lasted for an eternity and took the team from perennial hopeful (we did win 92 games in 1992, afterall) to the basement dweller the national media became accustomed to ridiculing.
Yes, they would have honored the contract. Yes, changes would have been made. The point remains that the latitude existed to retain a game-changing player up to a certain dollar amount—in this case, $20M a year. The Brewers have two imperatives regarding Prince, hopefully in this order: sign him through 2015 and make that the internal target date to begin rebuilding after he and Braun’s contracts expire, or trade him for maximum value. Both are going to be difficult, probably equally so, since it’s debatable what fair value may be.
If someone drops a 5 year $140M contract offer on Prince, more power to them. That’s a phenomenal amount of money that’s normally reserved for starting pitchers. I don’t see the bidding getting that high for a 1B in a market containing Ryan Howard and Albert Pujols, especially while average MLB salaries continue to decline.
Mike Bischoff
Milwaukee, WI
A quick piece of advice
We call these the Sal Bando years (as GM, not 3B).
Remarks like that aren’t going to win you many fans here.
This is a Brewer site, populated by some pretty smart Brewer fans, a fair number of whom probably follow the team closer than you do and have followed them for longer than you have. You don’t need to teach Brewer 101 here and when you try (or when you make absolute statements like your “Not how they do business” comment above), you come across as a condescending know it all.
I don’t mean to be rude about this, but you’ve only been around the site for a little while and you’ve already inserted your head into a few lions’ mouths. I’d advice toning it down a bit.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Chicago
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
Cincinnati
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
Houston
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
Milwaukee
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
St. Louis
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
(updated 2.16.2012 at 1:03 PM CST)
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