Gamel has torn Lat Muscle, Out 6 Weeks
EDIT: Adam McCalvy is calling the tear "slight," but it remains to be seen what the treatment/recovery plan will look like. - KL
Edit 2: Updated to include recovery time per mccalvy
almost 2 years ago
Mykenk
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This sucks
Guess I’ll have to put my “Free Mat Gamel” t-shirt order on hold for a little while
Get a ife broseph
Booooo
I guess we really need to count on Casey now
Only if you were assuming Gamel was going to make the club out of ST, which I don't think he was.
Counsell and Inglett are still gonna be the backup infielders, just as it was before this news (IMO, of course)
Shruggity
Agreed.
I didn’t think either would make the roster. My point was that this probably means that Heether plays 3B in Nashville to start the season. If he tears it up, it might actually mean that they move Gamel somewhere else… like RF.
It would be pretty stupid to trade him now...
… but it may happen before the end of the year.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Mar 18, 2010 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions
(Can you even trade a guy on the DL?)
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Or a guy who struggled the last few months of last year...
… or a guy whose manager would rather eat feces than give the guy playing time, and whose blocked by a former rookie of the year candidate, and who hasn’t played another position because the team won’t consider him elsewhere (so far).
I’m not blaming the injury on Macha (really, I’m not :) ), but you could make an educational video on how not to develop a player and maximize the use of your in-house talent based on the way Gamel’s been handled in the last year. He may be immature and bad at defense, but he’s been handled like they want him to fail.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Mar 18, 2010 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Uh, had in what?
Lineups? First I’ve heard it suggested that Macha was instructed to play Counsell (for example) over Gamel on days where McGehee had off.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Mar 18, 2010 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions
so, what, those 10 games are an indictment?
I didn’t have a problem with COunsell over Gamel. I had a problem with the fact that Gamel was on the roster to begin with, which isn’t Macha’s fault. I was wondering how much control he had over who was on the roster, and whether or not playing counsell over gamel was his way of passive-aggressively telling upper management that Gamel had no business being on the roster.
Shruggity
Not by themselves.
My issues go beyond that. I was just trying to guess what you meant since you didn’t say. But I’m not going to argue with you about it.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Mar 18, 2010 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I can't imagine Gamel moving for Heether.
Especially since Heether already has some positional flexibility.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
that's not true at all
(based on the stats I’ve read here but I don’t have presently to totally rebutt your argument!)
Get out of my dreams and into my Chuckie Carr
-Molitorfan 12/23/09
Here's what I have from B-Ref
Gamel
Minors: 5 seasons, 156 errors, .883 fielding pct
MLB: parts of 2 seasons, 7 errors, .885 fielding pct
Braun
Minors: 3 seasons, 47 errors, .899 fielding pct
MLB: 1 season, 26 errors, .895 fielding pct
I have Gamel's wrong
He played 1B a few games, which I inadvertently included. His correct minor league stats for 3B are:
155 errors, .881 fielding pct.
Errors and fielding%
are a terrible way to measure defense. Errors are a grey area even with MLB scorers. At least compare Total Zone for the 2.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
Terrible?
I don’t think it’s that bad. I don’t think the scorers had it in for Gamel so much that they gave him 53 errors in 2007.
I’m not familiar with some of the more complex stats discussed around here, so you’re going to need to help me with the TotalZone. I found projections for both for this season, but since Braun doesn’t play 3B anymore, I’m not sure how to compare them.
(really really anecdotal)
the one time I saw Gamel at Huntsville, the 1B was throwing infield practice and Gamel booted a ball. Then Michael Garciaparra hit on my friend. So, Gamel == terrible in the field and M. Garciaparra == lecher.
Awesome.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Mar 19, 2010 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions
IIRC
Heether actually is pretty good defensively.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Plus
He’s got that whole “walking on water” thing going for him, which is nice. :-)
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
Yeah, he's been banned from water polo for nearly 2000 years.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Only if we have problems with the roof again :)
If it makes you feel better, he doesn’t seem to have much power, isn’t terribly fast, and (AFAIK) hasn’t played much second base. Plus he’s old.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
As much as I want to believe it
I don’t think Gamel getting hurt helps The Heether make the team.
That said, I really hope the Brewers aren’t planning to rely on Inglett on the left side of the infield.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Sure
I’d assume Counsell is the backup for 2nd, 3rd, and shortstop.
Actually, I’m not sure what role Inglett and Heether are vying for. Inglett plays 2nd and all 3 OF spots, though I can’t see him getting much playing time in the outfield. Heether plays 3rd and short. I guess, pinch hit duty?
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
That'd be my guess as well
PH mostly with the occasional game playing in the IF.
The OF will be likely covered by Gerut and Edmonds.
I don't think Gamel was ever in the opening day roster plans.
I would like to think that if they don’t plan on starting him in the big leagues, the’ll at least want him getting playing time every day in AAA, rather than rotting on the bench.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
I don't either
Frankly, I don’t think they know what to do with Gamel. They didn’t seem to have a clue last season, and that doesn’t seem to have changed.
I wonder if they’re waiting to see what happens with Prince and Corey first.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Nope.
The plan is to do everything they can to destroy him as a player, trade him to the Twins for peanuts, say nice things like “change of scenery”, “great kid” in the press conference introducing the noodle armed junkballer they get for him and then sign a 35 year old who used to be good and who now has an OPS of .500 to play right field or third base.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Mar 18, 2010 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm starting to suspect
you think Gamel wasn’t handled well.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Yeah, well...
… mostly I’m just frustrated for Gamel right now.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Mar 18, 2010 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd blame Melvin for that, not Macha.
He had zero business being up before September last year. Zero.
Shruggity
To each his own view, I guess.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Mar 18, 2010 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions
so...
given that he finished the season on the MLB roster, that means he’s got to be on the big league DL and collecting MLB pay? Does he need to be recalled (even transiently) to the big league club after coming off the DL, or can he go straight to AAA if the team sees fit? In other words, will our 25 man roster be temporarily 24 men (for like an hour), but necessitating sending someone down to AAA to make room for Gamel, then recalling Gamel, then sending Gamel down to AAA, and then moving a THIRD player up (b/c you can’t recall someone for 6 days/games or something after sending them down unless someone GOES ON the DL). Or are things a whole lot simpler – ie, he’s not on either MLB or AAA club and we can put him where we want when he gets well?
Just a guess
I believe that Gamel got called up in September last year so wasn’t on the 25 man roster to end the year — thus having the ability to start the year on the AAA DL.
I’m sure TheJay or someone more knowleadgable on roster issues can correct me if I’m wrong.
Get a ife broseph
I think he'll open the season on the big league DL.
But he can be activated and immediately optioned.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
He's in big league camp
He was hurt in big league camp, so he’ll be on the MLB DL.
Failure is just success rounded down.
I do hereby solemnly swear...
… that I will never buy another Brewer jersey, jersey-t, or t-shirt with the number and/or name of an active player currently on the Brewers roster.
I bought a Gamel t right around the time he tomahawked that HR against the Cards last season and he’s staggered from one disaster to another ever since. Not the first time I’ve cursed a Brewer like that. I’m sorry for my selfishness and will work to be a better person going forward.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Mar 18, 2010 4:35 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Do you always create an injury?
If so I think a few people here would donate some money to you to buy a certain pitchers t-shirt
Only when I don't want the player to get hurt.
Otherwise Favre would have gotten hurt in his first game as a Viking last year.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Mar 18, 2010 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions
To clarify...
… I never rooted or wanted Favre to get hurt, I just didn’t wish him well. And of course my buddies, who truly enjoy tweaking this bitter old ass, bought me a Favre Viking jersey about 2 weeks after he turned up in Minnesota.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Mar 18, 2010 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions
so...do you have to make the purchase in question for the curse to take hold?
by PagsBrewCrew on Mar 18, 2010 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Hadn't thought of that.... perhaps.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Mar 18, 2010 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions
The other #4
That’s why I wear my Molitor jersey. That being said, I did buy a Braun jersey since he will be here for a few more years. Wonder what tight fitting player T-Shirt all the hotties will be wearing now that JJ is gone.
Well, this is unfortunate.
It shouldn’t effect the major league roster much – even if McGehee flounders they would have given him a couple months to play his way out of the starting job anyways – but it sucks for Gamel.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
I wonder if this will make Macha stop hating Gamel and talking shit about him
All he’s EVER done with Gamel, is talk about how he doesn’t try, doesn’t want to, wishes he’d work more, etc etc. It goes back to spring training last year. Look I don’t give a shit if you come late to camp, you at LEAST deserve to not have your manager drive a bus over you.
And its continued this season. Obviously Macha doesn’t like Gamel. I think its unfortunate, and I have zero business knowing it. Kenneth needs to realize there’s this thing called “The Internets” that people use, and its updated 24 hours a day with things he says.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
Clearly Melvin was making Macha talk badly about Gamel.
:)
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Mar 18, 2010 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess that's one way to look at it
Although I’m going with what I’ve read and seen. I’ve read comments that lead me to believe that Macha does not like the young man. I’ve seen him sit him for an unnecessarily long period of time. I have NOT seen Doug Melvin say that he told Kenneth to start anyone over Gamel. Nor have I seen anywhere Melvin stating that he told Macha to make negative comments about Gamel to the press.
But, some folks like their conspiracy theories.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Mar 18, 2010 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually, I was trying to be funny.
I failed.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Mar 18, 2010 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions
You didn't fail.
The smily face was a dead giveaway.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Oh I know
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Mar 18, 2010 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions
When has he said stuff like that about Gamel?
I’m not saying he hasn’t, I just don’t remember that at all.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
Are you asking me to find the quotes on the JSonline because you don't want to?
Also last year he made comments about how he needed to keep himself on the field, put in more work, etc.
I said above when he said them. Feel free to look up comments he’s made.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Mar 18, 2010 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions
No need to get snippy
If you’re going to claim that Macha somehow hates Gamel, you should be the one to produce the evidence. Because I don’t recall ever seeing any quotes to that effect.
If part of your evidence is that Gamel didn’t start much last season, I would argue that McGehee just outperformed him and earned the spot. I would have preferred to have Gamel starting in AAA in that case, rather than sitting on the bench, but a dumb management move doesn’t necessarily indicate any ill will towards the guy.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
there were quotes for sure
i just don’t remember them exactly. But macha threw gamel under the bus once or twice.
by PagsBrewCrew on Mar 18, 2010 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Its hard not to be snippy with you
You’ve proven that you like to challenge nearly everything I say, though you’ll give passes to other folks.
Its been well documented, and I honestly don’t feel I need to ‘prove’ anything to you. If you’re really that interested, you’ll find them yourself. I’m sure many other folks have read the articles with the quotes in them. And I’m not the only person who seems to have gotten the idea that Macha does not like Gamel.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Mar 18, 2010 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually, I'm kind of curious about these quotes too.
It was a simple question. Since he’s not sure what quotes you’re talking about, he probably wouldn’t know where to look. Since you brought them up, is it that big of a deal to back up what you said?
He’s not challenging you, he’s just curious what you’re talking about. And frankly, so am I.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Here's a couple.
“I do have a level of concern about Gamel,” Macha said. According to Macha, Gamel has not been impressive in batting practice. In games, he’s struggled to catch up to opponents’ fastballs.
“Last time I started Gamel down there, they hit a couple of ground balls to him that he didn’t get to. His at-bats weren’t very good. I don’t want to put somebody down there and have them not be ready to go out and play and not have success. That’s the way I feel about that.”
“When you’re breaking in young kids, you just don’t throw them to the wolves,” Macha said.
“He had some firsts — his first homer, his first major league start, his first error and my first gray hair with him.”
There may be more I just didn’t find. I remember being bothered by some of the comments as they were made, due to the context in which they were made, which largely consisted of Gamel riding the bench ad nauseum (and not just in September either) and then Macha complaining about his lack of productivity in the limited opportunities he did get. I had no problem with McGehee getting most of the time at 3rd in the 2nd half. He earned it and by that time Gamel’s season had already been torpedoed anyway. I just don’t think Macha (or the organization in general) handled him very well last year. The comments in the press were just a small part of the basis for that opinion. At least for me.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Mar 18, 2010 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't see those comments as being out-of-line or particularly spiteful towards Gamel.
I share the same opinion with Mykenk… the Brewers should’ve never brought him up if they weren’t planning on giving him more playing time. His development would’ve been better off leaving him in Nashville so that he could continue getting regular playing time.
That's fine.
I disagree, but it’s not unreasonable to see things either way. I certainly don’t think that Charlie was suggesting that Macha went all Ozzie Guillen on the kid.
I didn’t cut and paste them up there, but in the same articles I found those quotes, Macha talked about not bringing Gamel up to sit the bench. And he said that when Gamel first came up, and not in September. Melvin said similar things when Gamel was called up prior to interleague play, before saying when and how much Gamel played was up to Macha. We all know what happened.
From my perspective and my read of the stories on the subject Melvin brought him up and he and Macha talked and agreed the kid had to get regular at bats, and then Macha left him sit. I attribute that to Macha, you and Mykenk put it on Melvin. In the end it doesn’t much matter whose fault it was because Gamel was mishandled and it pretty clearly got into his head. That’s a failure of leadership, period.
But this is all pretty old news…
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Mar 18, 2010 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I can see the argument from both sides, really.
I just think that there’s a difference between Macha hating Gamel, and Macha not thinking he’s ready for the big leagues, yet.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
FWIW regarding the first call-up
Gamel appeared in all but two games from the first interleague game on May 22 to the last one on June 25, and started 21 of the 31 games. He then started only 7 out of 20 games over the next month before being optioned down. Calling him up in September ended up being pointless.
He hit .238/.315/.350 in the “interleague month.”
Failure is just success rounded down.
With those stats
combined with McGehee and Counsell’s overperformance, is it really that surprising that he didn’t get a lot of playing time? Especially at that point in the year when the Brewers thought they were gonna do something with their season?
Shruggity
"Calling him up in September ended up being pointless."
Much like this conversation.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Mar 19, 2010 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions
since when do we need to have a point?
There’s been like 2 meaningful conversations in the history of the internet.
Shruggity
Maybe so, but...
I just wanted to point out that Macha or Melvin could say today that Gamel didn’t sit on the bench after being called up for interleague play, and they would not be wrong. July and September, different story.
Failure is just success rounded down.
Thanks for sharing then...
As long as we’re picking nits, we might as well point out that he got 1 start out of the 9 games he spend on the big league club from May 14th tot he 22nd, which was before interleague play started. And McGehee hit .233/.324/.300 in May while Gamel “acclimated” himself to the big league club by sitting on his ass, FWIW Mykenk.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Mar 19, 2010 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed. Gamel shouldn't have been on the bench
He should have been starting every day at AAA.
So McGehee and Gamel both played like crap that month. Just means Counsell should have been starting more.
Shruggity
"He should have been starting every day at AAA."
I’m not sure if you meant to annoy with that, but I agree with you. I just think Macha had something to do with that decision, and had complete control the decisions that came after.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Mar 19, 2010 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Wasn't trying to annoy, that's my belief re:Gamel
And there’s our disconnect. I don’t think Macha had anything to do with him getting called up, and was put in the position of having to choose between wasting the guy away on the bench and putting him in when he wasn’t ready.
Not sure we have any evidence either way, he was mishandled, doesn’t really matter who you blame, doesn’t change anything.
Shruggity
Fair enough.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Mar 19, 2010 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Edmonds hungry
Edmonds eat Gamel arm
Gamel go on DL now
by nullacct on Mar 19, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
AWESOME
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
See -- It does look like Edmonds.
One time I was watching Edmonds and I swear his eyes were pure black even the sclera.
Taking shallowness to new depths -- FtJ's blog
by Fatter than Joey on Mar 20, 2010 7:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Gamel wasn't eve late last year.
He showed up on time. I think he did the right thing by sticking around his fiance and his unborn child. Unless you meant the once or twice he overslept.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
It was a combination of the two.
I didn’t see a problem with him arriving to camp “on time,” even though everyone else shows up early, and I don’t think anyone really did. But when you couple it with him oversleeping, it starts to look worse. They’re small things, but they reflect negatively on your work ethic when you’re trying to make a first impression on your bosses.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Agreed
Guys who are hungry show up to ST early, take extra reps in the field and in the cage to show the coaches that he’s serious about playing. Granted, Gamel may not be as motivated since he knows he’s likely to start the season in Nashville, but you’d think he’d want to make a good impression.
He compounded the problem, though
By showing up on time, when everyone else was early, and having an undisclosed injury.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
I wouldn't hold that injury against him.
You get a sore muscle and want to give it a little time to see if it gets better. His fiance was die at any time so sticking with her as long as possible was the right thing to do in my opinion. If showing up on time for camp isn’t the issue, why does it keep getting brought up as a problem instead of focusing on what he actually did wrong. He overslept a couple days. He had a sore muscle he didn’t think was really an injury. The oversleeping is the only real issue in my opinion.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
I don't think anyone was suggesting that the injury was his fault.
What it does do however, is further hurt his chances of making the team. There’s not one particular thing, but rather all the little things are adding up.
No, when you're paid to do something, and there's something that's preventing you from giving it your all,
you need to tell them, especially if they have a large team of people whose only job it is to keep you in peak physical performance.
Shruggity
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