Macha wonders if Hoffman is tipping pitches

by WSB Chris on Apr 13, 2010 8:53 AM CDT

The other night I wondered out loud here, if Hoffman was tipping his pitches since his last 4 blown saves were at the hands of the Cards. This morning on his little radio blurb on AM620 Brewers Manager Ken Macha actually put that theory forward. I wonder if Ken reads BCB ;) I now know that my theory is totally wrong. No way I can be on the same side of the fence as Macha ;) It will be interesting to see how Trevor does next time out. Oh and before I forget Gregg Zaun sucks.

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Interesting.

I don’t think he’s tipping pitches, just making bad pitch selection, at least in Sunday’s game. Although, that may be because he’d been tipping the changeup, and didn’t want to use it until he fixed it?

Hmm.

Shruggity

by Mykenk on Apr 13, 2010 10:00 AM CDT reply actions

Zaun mentioned after yesterday's game that Davis wasn't hitting his fastball, so he stopped calling it.

I would hope that Zaun woudln’t stop calling Hoffman’s changeup. A poorly located Hoffman Change is still better than a perfectly located Hoffman Fastball… not that he’s been locating his fastball.

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by tcyoung on Apr 13, 2010 10:18 AM CDT reply actions

so far I am not impressed with anything Gregg Zaun does

I really though Hart would be my new Cammy but I think Zaunny is the front runner for my rage ;) As for not calling Davis fastball the first home run was a curve that was hung. Nice job Zaunny

Did I mention Gregg Zaun sucks, golly this one of those times I would love to be able to swear here ;)

kumbaya my lord kumbaya :)

by WSB Chris on Apr 13, 2010 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions

And..

Where were you saying that he sucks when he was mashing in ST?

0 – 18 is bad.. very bad news. But he can’t stay that bad forever…

by SgtClueLs on Apr 13, 2010 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions

I ignore ST since it is meaningless on so many levels

so I said nothing I assumed he had to be an improvement over Kendall but I might be proven wrong on that point.

“But he can’t stay that bad forever” famous last words you may live to regret that statement ;)

kumbaya my lord kumbaya :)

by WSB Chris on Apr 13, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions

You are over reacting. Prince started slow last year. Strung together 16ABs with out a hit. He strung together an 0 – 14 the year before that.

Yes Zaun has had a really really bad start, but before we all wig out and jump to conclusions lets give it some more time. I talked myself off the ledge with Hoffman, you need to give Zaun a game or two more before we assume it’s a long term trend instead of a really small sample size.

by SgtClueLs on Apr 13, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions

ME OVER REACT HOW DARE YOU

I HAVE NEVER OVER REACTED TO ANYTHING IN MY LIFE JUST ASK EVERYONE HERE.

kumbaya my lord kumbaya :)

by WSB Chris on Apr 13, 2010 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Let's be honest

Gregg Zaun was nothing more than a replacement level catcher as a backup, and he couldn’t really ever hope to do better as a full-time starter. So…really…does it matter if someone ‘called it’ in ST? Hardy hit like .475 last year…

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Apr 14, 2010 2:52 AM CDT up reply actions

Or it could be that he's not throwing his best pitch

25 pitches in his last save opportunity by my quick count:
19 fastballs
5 cutters
1 changeup

Call me crazy, but you don’t need to be tipping pitches if you’re throwing out 80% fastballs at 85 mph and your cutter is going out at 81 mph.

by ecocd on Apr 13, 2010 12:56 PM CDT reply actions

there's his problem

now they just need to figure out why he’s not throwing it. If the catchers aren’t calling it, why? (Kottaras caught him on Sunday, BTW.) Are they calling it but he’s not throwing it?

(I’m suspecting he’s injured, but that’s merely conjecture.)

by morineko on Apr 13, 2010 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions

My thought

is that if he thinks he’s tipping his changeup, he’s not going to throw it, and that might explain Sunday. Maybe not, though.

Shruggity

by Mykenk on Apr 13, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions

For all intents and purposes, he is a two pitch pitcher.

So if he’s tipping his change-up, then by the process of elimination, he is tipping his fastball. In which case, I think it makes more sense to throw the change-up regardless.

Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.

by Yar Nivek on Apr 13, 2010 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Maybe he didn't have a feel for the change-up on Sunday.

It seems to me that, if you’re going to be a change-up specialist, you have to trust that you’re not going to leave that pitch up — because, if you do, Very Bad Things are going to happen.

by Rubie Q on Apr 13, 2010 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions

even if he tips, does it do any good?

Morgan Ensberg was interviewed in the Hardball Times over the weekend, and he was asked about tipped pitches. He said (paraphrased) the one time he noticed it, he was unable to convert his knowledge into productive hitting. Admittedly Pujols and Holliday are an entirely different class of hitter than Ensberg was, but Stavinoha on the other hand…. Also slow fastballs over the plate are slow fastballs over the plate, and a major league hitter should be able to convert bad pitches into hit baseballs.

by morineko on Apr 13, 2010 1:24 PM CDT reply actions

Stavinoha was a fluke

It was a great pitch, Stavinoha was fooled and probably pulled off the luckiest win anyone in the NL Central will have for the entire season.

by ecocd on Apr 13, 2010 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions

I wouldn't say it was a great pitch

You’re being too much of a homer.

It was a great piece of hitting on a good pitch.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Apr 14, 2010 2:54 AM CDT up reply actions

You'll have to school me on the changeup

He caught the inside bottom corner of the strike zone with a changeup. I don’t remember Hoffman spiking his changeup ever so I don’t think it’s the kind of pitch that needs to be out of the strike zone to be effective. Where could he have thrown it that was better?

by ecocd on Apr 14, 2010 6:56 AM CDT up reply actions

I don't think he caught the strike zone wiht that pitch.

I think he was trying to get Stav to chase. He did that. Stavinoha just somehow made really, really good contact with a pitch that he had no business swinging at. It looked like more of a curve than a change, though.

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by tcyoung on Apr 14, 2010 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions

Sorry I said you were being a homer

That must be what’s gotten you all sarcastic in the above post.

Interestingly, there’s not pitch/fx data at fangraphs for the game on Saturday night.

But I think tcyoung does a good job explaining everything in his response.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Apr 14, 2010 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions

I was being entirely serious

I don’t know about change ups or where they’re supposed to be located.

I was referring to Gameday. Gameday shows he caught the corner which is why I said he made a great pitch. I don’t think he would’ve put it somewhere else if he had the choice. If he didn’t actually catch the corner, it was close enough to make Stav chase which also makes it a great pitch.

by ecocd on Apr 14, 2010 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions

Ahhh, sorry I misunderstood

I honestly thought you were just being sarcastic.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Apr 14, 2010 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions

Stavinoha's pitch wasn't a fastball over the plate.

It was some off speed pitch thrown down and in. As ecocd said, it was a fluke that he hit that home run. If that ball doesn’t go over the fence, we’re not even having this conversation.

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by tcyoung on Apr 13, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions

Not true at all

He walked the leadoff batter, then gave up two LONG flyball outs before giving up the lucky HR to Stav.

And then he gave up back-to-back HR to Pujols and Holliday the next night, after giving up a double to Lopez on 5 straight fastballs.

Anyone who couldn’t see this coming the last two days has some blinders on, in my opinion. Sometimes regression comes in huge, fat doses, and then evens out quickly. Look at his FB rate in 2008—its not something that you’d want to see in Miller Park.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Apr 14, 2010 2:57 AM CDT up reply actions

Nobody remembers long flyball outs if no runs are allowed.

All I’m saying, is if he doesn’t blow the save on Friday, we’re not talking about how much he’s regressed now. Instead, we’re saying,
‘Gosh, that was an awful outing against the Cardinals on Sunday. Better luck next time.’

http://www.mlbsoup.com

by tcyoung on Apr 14, 2010 4:22 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

True

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Apr 14, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions

The main point being

EVERYONE remembers them when you give up 3 HR in 2 days.

And its something you could see coming.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Apr 14, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions

First of all, he had a couple of decent appearances in the Colorado series…nothing that gave cause for panic. All of a sudden there is a fluke HR, and a bad game his next time out, and suddenly he’s injured, tipping pitches, or toast?

Injury doesn’t seem that likely to me right now.

Tipping pitches…maybe. But I’m assuming the tipping would give away the fact that he’s throwing a change-up or fastball. If you’re tipping pitches, you had better throw your BEST pitch. His change-up can make hitters look foolish…his fastball can make him look foolish. If he is not throwing the change-up because he thinks he’s tipping hitters to when it’s coming, then that’s not wise.

Toasted? Could be. He wasn’t effective in ST, and even his COL appearances weren’t dominant, but I’m going to reserve judgment until we’ve seen some more. I think he’ll work it out soon and we’ll be back along our merry way.

Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.

by Yar Nivek on Apr 13, 2010 2:16 PM CDT reply actions

How about Gregg Zaun?

He’s suddenly awesome because of his ST performance? How about J.J. Hardy last year? Corey Hart this year?

Sample size is everything. I think Kyle has a point about his conditioning. And you can NEVER discount age. I don’t care who you are, at 42, you lose something. Shit, I’m 30, and I couldn’t go out and compete with some 20 year old kid right now.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Apr 14, 2010 3:00 AM CDT up reply actions

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