Tuesday's Frosty Mug
Some things to read while living up to predictions.
Corey Hart got off to a hot start in the Home Run Derby last night, leading after the first round and even becoming a trending topic on Twitter. With that said, the extended wait between rounds in one of the game's most drawn out events took its toll on Hart, who went homerless in the second round and failed to advance to the finals.
Other notes on Hart in the derby:
- Corey Hart and Sandy Guerrero had a plan to keep Hart fresh for later rounds, but apparently it didn't work out so well.
- Hart, David Ortiz and Hanley Ramirez each hit a dozen home runs in one of the derby's first two rounds, making it the first time three players have done that in the same event.
- Hart led all hitters in homer distance in round 1, at 5642 total feet.
- Wezen-ball estimates that it would've taken Hart four minutes and 34 seconds to run out his shots.
- Hart is also the first hitter to get blanked in the second round of the derby since 1995.
- SgtClueLs noted that Hart's second half regression may already have begun.
- Hart was given 11-2 odds to win the Derby, the second most favorable odds behind Miguel Cabrera and the event's eventual winner, David Ortiz.
- Bernie Brewer was in attendance, but that didn't keep Lincoln Hamilton of Project Prospect from imagining him going down the slider over and over again in an empty Miller Park.
- Hart was the seventh Brewer to compete in the Home Run Derby. You can follow this link to see the list or this one to try to name them all on Sporcle.
- Hart's walkoff home run on Sunday was Wezen-ball's Tater Trot of the Day.
Now, our attention turns to tonight's game. Ryan Braun and Corey Hart are batting sixth and eighth for the NL, respectively, and playing left and right field. There had been some speculation that Hart would end up playing center, but NL manager Charlie Manuel opted to start Andre Ethier there instead. If you're looking to plan tonight's TV viewing, here are a few quick notes:
- The game *broadcast* starts at 7 on Fox, but there's no way they'll get to the first pitch before 7:30.
- Unless the NL rallies in the first inning, Braun and Hart likely won't hit until the top of the second at the earliest, at roughly 7:45-7:50.
- If you're looking to get to bed early having Braun and Hart in the starting lineup is good news: They'll both be done by the fifth inning, which might wrap up before 11.
Yovani Gallardo is missing this year's game as he continues to rehab his oblique injury, and it's possible he'll miss next year's contest too: Gallardo told reporters he would boycott the 2011 game in Arizona as a protest against Arizona's new immigration laws. (h/t Jordan Schelling)
Off the field, Scott Boras made headlines with comments about Prince Fielder and the Brewers' chances of re-signing him, saying Fielder compares favorably to Mark Teixeira (FanShot). It's more or less a confirmation of what we already knew: Boras intends to play the market with Fielder, and the Brewers stand virtually no chance of convincing him otherwise.
Boras told reporters that Fielder could be the difference between 2.4 million and 3 million fans in attendance at Miller Park. Even if Fielder really is responsible for 25% of the Brewers' paid attendance, In-Between Hops suggests the revenue gain wouldn't be enough to pay his contract.
On the other end of the spectrum, Corey Hart told reporters he'd like to stay in Milwaukee and would be open to an extension. Hart is in the middle of a career year, so the fact that he'd like to cash in on it is less than surprising. Pat Andriola of FanGraphs listed Hart as one of four sell high candidates.
But, maybe it's not a career year after all. The B-Ref Blog breaks down the numbers and makes the case that Hart may actually have had more value in 2007 when he grounded into fewer double plays and was more valuable running the bases and on defense.
Ryan Braun is back near home in Anaheim, and told Tom Haudricourt it's a special experience to be able to share the festivities with his friends and family.
If you had told me before the season that Gregg Zaun would be at the All Star Game, I would have been pretty excited. If you'd told me he'd be there as a correspondent for Rogers Sportsnet, less so.
Zaun was actually one of the better grades on Brewed Sports' report card for Doug Melvin's offseason acquisitions. Melvin escaped with a 1.66 GPA overall.
Jim Edmonds might not be in Anaheim this week, but that didn't keep him from making Jeff Pearlman's "all-shitheel" interview team (h/t BBTF). Braves organist Matthew Kaminski is already working on walkup music for Edmonds when the Brewers are in town this week. He also has ideas for Carlos Gomez and Rickie Weeks.
Looking way ahead: The Brewers open the second half with four game sets in Atlanta and Pittsburgh, then face the Nationals for three games at home July 23-25. Jordan Schelling notes that Washington has set their second half rotation and the Brewers will likely miss Stephen Strasburg.
In the minors:
- Just one day after representing the Brewers at the Futures Game in Anaheim, Brett Lawrie was back in Huntsville and struck out in a pinch hit appearance in the Southern League All Star Game last night. Lawrie took a moment to discuss the double All Star appearances with John Turner of the Huntsville Times. Michael Bowman also pitched a perfect third inning in the game.
- MLB FanHouse has video of Lawrie from the Futures Game.
- Amaury Rivas was also selected but did not appear in the SL game: As Battlekow noted, he's apparently nursing a minor injury.
- The AAA All Star Game is also this week, and reliever Mike McClendon and infielder Luis Cruz will represent Nashville.
- In games that actually count, the affiliates went 2-2 last night. The game of the day was played in Appleton, where the Timber Rattlers 4-6 hitters (Kentrail Davis, Khris Davis and Hunter Morris) combined to go 9-for-12 with three walks, two doubles, a triple, a home run and eleven runs scored in Wisconsin's 15-12 win over Burlington. You can read about that and more in today's Minor League Notes.
- Baseball America is reporting the Brewers have released Kristian Bueno, a 2007 ninth round pick who had struggled through four minor league seasons, posting a 6.86 ERA in 102.1 innings and failing to advance past Helena. The team has also moved outfielder Chad Stang and catcher Kevin Melillo to the 60-day DL. Stang was an 8th round pick in 2009, and Melillo was selected in the 31st round in 2010.
- Wisconsin Sports Tap has a look at what's become of several Brewer farmhands traded away over the last few seasons.
Here's something I would not have suspected: A recent Harris poll shows that the Brewers are baseball's 11th most popular team, up from 14th last season. The poll shows them as being more popular than the Tigers, Mariners, White Sox and Angels, among others.
On power rankings:
- MLB FanHouse has the Brewers at 15, up one spot.
- ESPN has the Brewers at 22, down one spot.
- Craig Calcaterra has the Brewers at 24.
If you weren't around early this morning, you might have missed an important announcement: The Brew Crew Ball Trade Deadline Primer is out and ready for your purchase (check out the comments of that post for pictures from ecocd). A compilation of efforts from writers covering every major league team, it features over 180 pages of essays, player profiles and more on the Brewers, their NL Central rivals and potential trade partners. It's only $9.95, and you can purchase and download it at this link.
Here's something I should've mentioned in the first post this morning: major credit is due to the guys over at TwinsCentric for putting this project together: They've been great to work with through the whole project. They also have their own version of the book, as do friends of the site Crashburn Alley, The Crawfish Boxes, It's About the Money and others.
If you weren't around yesterday, you might have missed a guest post from Lar of Wezen-ball on Brewer home run trots. Do yourself a favor and go back and read it, if you haven't already.
Elsewhere in shameless self-promotion: If you haven't yet, please take a moment to vote in this week's BCB Tracking Poll. The poll will remain open until noon today and results will be posted tomorrow.
Around baseball:
Dodgers: Released pitcher Jesus Colome.
Pirates: Acquired infielder Brian Bixler from the Indians for a PTBNL.
Can you name the best season ever by a Brewer who wasn't an All Star? At Wezen-ball, The Daily Something makes the case for Mike Caldwell, who had the sixth best season ever by a non-honoree in 1978.
Our condolences go out this morning to Yankee fans and the friends and family of longtime Yankee owner George Steinbrenner, who suffered a massive heart attack and passed away early this morning. Steinbrenner was 80.
On this day in 2008, CC Sabathia pitched a complete game and hit a home run in the Brewers' 3-2 win over the Reds.
Happy birthday today to:
- Helena Brewer Tyler Cravy, who turns 21.
- Huntsville Star Bobby Bramhall, who turns 25.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have Micro Machines on pause.
Drink up.
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Comments
First comment on the all-shitheel team:
How about the all-shitheel interviewER team? Because I have a nomination.
http://www.mlbsoup.com
by tcyoung on Jul 13, 2010 11:28 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Arizona Law
Not trying to single out Gallardo here, but if a player is willing to boycott the All Star game next year because of the new immigration law, why arent they willing to boycott the 3 games (or 10 if in the division) they will play there in regular season games? The answer is pretty obvious.
It just seems like a shallow protest.
I think it's a measure of exposure
Though I pretty much agree with you. ASG game is a national story, Brewers vs. D-Backs is a story that the 2 teams fans barely care about (at least this year).
Shruggity.
My guess...
And I have nothing but pure speculation, their contract.
All Star Game is opt-in opt-out type thing, while if they skipped regular season games they may be liable for action. While you get a nice bonus for a all star selection, you wouldn’t be giving up money by not going.
by SgtClueLs on Jul 13, 2010 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
This.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Jul 13, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Thats exactly my point
If you want to boycott the ASG because its more prominent thats great. At the very worst he might be out some bonus money. But the revolutionary in me would rather see him also boycott those MIL vs ARI games and if the Brewers dock his pay, then he’s really saying something.
I’m willing to bet that the Players Union would be there with him on the issue and could probably then turn it into a big revenue issue for the state. I love the fact that he is doing “something” on the issue, I would just rather see it go further, not only for him but for anyone who has stated this intent/belief.
Remember when "Montreal" played half their home games in Puerto Rico?
They could force the Dbacks to do that just so players would participate. Or have the games in Mexico, that would truly be ironic.
Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.
i disagree
i don’t have any problem with what yovani is saying. besides, boycotting a brewers series in AZ doesn’t impact the state of arizona. the games will be played. the brewers get hurt in that instance and the diamondbacks get an advantage.
however, if cactus league teams move to the grapefruit league or players refuse to report to spring training (and instead practice elsewhere), then that would have an economic impact on arizona.
frankly, economics are the only thing arizona is going to listen to, as once you start piling on them, they get defiant. MLK day was an issue forever until the NFL just up and said “you’ll never get another superbowl again” and then they added it. if MLB really wanted to make a big deal out of this and threatened to move spring training or the AFL and the all-star game, things are more likely to happen.
to me, though, the biggest deal is in the enforcement of the law. it’s one thing if it’s like most seatbelt laws (they can’t pull you over for it, but if you’re pulled over for something else, they can add it on), but if they can just stop people and ask for papers, that’s different. my understanding is that it’s more like the seatbelts.
by Capt Science on Jul 13, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sadly, its sort of like the seatbelts, but far more pervasive
shortly after it was passed I was reading an article about a trucker who was stopped at a weigh station. He had his drivers license, but no birth certificate/passport/etc. and had to wait there for his wife to bring it bc the authorities were keeping him there.
The law has not gone into effect yet, IIRC.
Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.
No idea.
I just looked it up, the “effective date” is July 29th.
Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.
it was a linked story
from a basketball blog article about the suns, iirc
Just lost a lot of respect for Yo
Nice how he is assuming he will be there. Since the AZ law is a carbon copy of the Federal law shouldn’t Yo be boycotting every game played in the United States?
I wonder if Yo could even tell you what the AZ law actually said or if the MJS Baseball writers would have the balls to ask him if he has even read the law
Up yours Yo
"It's a joke. It's all a joke.
by WSB Chris on Jul 13, 2010 11:57 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Just another issue that celebrities feel like they need to lend their support to like Tibet, Darfur, The Oil Spill, The Cubs etc…
"I agree but dont agree"
by juggernaut400 on Jul 13, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Fine
then donate some money. No one’s boycotting games in Houston because of the oil spill.
Shruggity.
This isn't a massive tragedy like those other examples,
I’ll give you that. Nor is it inhumane treatment of people like some of them
Shruggity.
Ok, I used poor judgement when I listed the examples
Nor is it inhumane treatment of people like some of them
Isn’t “inhumane treatment” the basis for the opposition of the national Arizona law? Apparently its inhumane to make people carry around proper identification. .
I just hate when celebs try to be the general public’s moral compass. I guess my main problem with the baseball side of this is that many players who are outraged by the Arizona law are not even citizens of this country but are allowed to play ball here and make millions of dollars that they cant make in their home countries. Many of us don’t agree 100% with the opinions of our bosses but we still go to work.
"I agree but dont agree"
by juggernaut400 on Jul 13, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd rather have informed and vocal players, and occasionally disagree with them.
Than ignorant ones.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Jul 13, 2010 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed, 100%
Do your job. Don’t use the celebrity we give you to shove your opinion down our throat.
Shruggity.
Disagreed, 100%
Nobody’s shoving their opinion down anybody’s throat. Just because someone’s a prominent athlete shouldn’t mean they cease to be a citizen who’s free to express their opinion on issues they’re passionate about.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 13, 2010 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Especially when they're asked for their opinion.
SRS BSNS
by Rubie Q on Jul 13, 2010 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wait what?
I’m not sure where you get the fact it’s a carbon copy of the federal law. IIRC Federal Law doesn’t require proof of citizenship be carried on you at all times, while the State law does. You can’t detain someone for simply not having ze papers, while AZ basically says they can detain you if they suspect you are not legal if you don’t have ze papers on you.
He can express his dislike of the law in any form he wants. It’s not going to hurt our club at all if he avoids the all star game. It’s a joke of a game anyways.
by SgtClueLs on Jul 13, 2010 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And that's fine
But don’t spread half truths as fact.
by SgtClueLs on Jul 13, 2010 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
right there is no illigal problem in AZ they are all just a bunch of racist asshole
that kind of fact is ok right
"It's a joke. It's all a joke.
by WSB Chris on Jul 13, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did I ever say there wasn't a problem?
There is..
But I value my civil liberties more. And being detained for simply not carrying your wallet with ID on you is a civil liberty I’m not willing to give up.
by SgtClueLs on Jul 13, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I hope
he doesn’t get that bonus money if he boycotts.
Carry ID, it’s not that hard, I do it every day. Or don’t break the law, that’s even easier.
Shruggity.
Says...
A white male who probably will never be asked to prove citizenship.
Forget your wallet, enjoy detainment.
by SgtClueLs on Jul 13, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Probably not
but if asked, I could. It’s not hard to carry a piece of paper with you. Is it? Maybe it is. Maybe Arizona has a pocket-shortage I was unaware of.
Shruggity.
You are missing the point
You are automatically assumed guilty instead of innocent in matters of citizenship if you forget your wallet and look foreign. Doesn’t that go against it..
by SgtClueLs on Jul 13, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Who forgets their wallet? Ever?
I guess there’s more forgetful people than I thought. Maybe this law will help peoples memory. Also, if you obey the laws, this doesn’t ever become an issue. So, obey the laws, and there’s zero problem. Don’t obey the laws, suffer the consequences.
But, as Chris said, no place for this here, not even remotely baseball related (which is why the boycott is silly)
Shruggity.
"So, obey the laws, and there’s zero problem."
I think there is definitely a problem with that logic.
by MillerParkSouth on Jul 13, 2010 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sure have.
But people who “civilly disobey” are still breaking the law, and people are going to have a problem with it. So, I’m not sure what MPS’s point is.
Shruggity.
You shouldn't ignore any law
but there’s definitely a problem with saying “just do what the government says and you’ll be fine.”
by MillerParkSouth on Jul 13, 2010 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
That's not what I said.
If you knowingly disobey a law and don’t expect a problem, then you’re dumb. I’m not saying you shouldn’t knowingly disobey a law, just anticipate the consequences.
Shruggity.
and YG is knowingly avoiding an area of the country that he'd be knowingly violating the law
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think he'd be violating the law.
And I’m not saying don’t do it, I just have an issue with people using their celebrity to get a point across. Too many people blindly follow and don’t make up their own mind about things.
Just an opinion.
Shruggity.
Too many people blindly follow and don’t make up their own mind about things.
Are you accusing Yo or us of doing that? Or both?
SRS BSNS
Nah, neither.
not accusing anyone in particular of doing that. Just saying that too many people blindly follow celebrity, and I’m not a huge fan of celebrities taking advantage of that.
I think most posters here are smart enough to make up their own mind.
Shruggity.
Maybe
it depends. Was he asked if he’d boycott it? If not, and he brought it up, then definitely. If he was asked, then probably not. But public figures have to speak more carefully than others (which is stupid, but the way it works).
If he brought it up on his own, I totally disapprove. If he didn’t, then whatever, he was just answering a question
Shruggity.
Well, based on the way the article was written,
it seemed that there was a reporter going around asking all the Hispanic players at the AS Game for their opinions.
SRS BSNS
by Rubie Q on Jul 13, 2010 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Now that multiple hispanic players have come out and said they're going to boycott
There will be a lot of pressure on all latino players to boycott. They will start to boycott in order to not be chastized.
http://www.mlbsoup.com
I just had a problem with the implication that there was no issue if everyone just obeyed the law, ignoring the fact that a number of people take issue with the law abridging rights in a manner that implies an unspoken bias or inequality.
by MillerParkSouth on Jul 13, 2010 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
understandable.
I don’t see this law abridging rights anymore than any other law, so there’s our point of difference.
Shruggity.
I've done it
Or left my ID in the bank cash thing. Or had it stolen.. there are various reasons why someone could be with out ID. Like maybe swimming.
Boy.. driving for 6 hours for work sure gets a ton of responses.
Yeah, sorry I should stop talkign about it here,
I just find it frustrating that so many self-righteous people are feigning outrage over it to make themselves feel like a better person.
http://www.mlbsoup.com
by tcyoung on Jul 13, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I just find it frustrating that so many self-righteous people are feigning outrage over it to make themselves feel like a better person.
You’re painting with a pretty broad brush right there.
SRS BSNS
by Rubie Q on Jul 13, 2010 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm going to strongly caution you
Against accusing everyone who disagrees with the law of “feigning outrage.”
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Jul 13, 2010 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not accusing everyone of feigning outrage
I didn’t mean for it to be read as a sweeping generalization. There are clearly many people who are arguing the law, but have no clue what their talking about. (Take Peggy West, for example) Those people have gotten me worked up over the law, and that’s why I felt the need to post my thoughts. I wasn’t talking about anyone on here, or Yo, and I certainly wasn’t trying to lump everyone who argues the law into the same group. There are plenty of folks who present VERY smart, thought-provoking arguments on both sides. But it’s the ones who don’t that have gotten me emotionally invested.
http://www.mlbsoup.com
I'm all for limiting political conversation to people who know what they're talking about.
It’ll never happen, but I’m all for it.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
passports don't fit in wallets
I carry my wallet everywhere (with drivers lic)…not my passport
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Traveling where?
In the continental United States? No, I don’t.
SRS BSNS
by Rubie Q on Jul 13, 2010 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
But, if I were from, say Canada
and were in the US for whatever reason, I would. No question about it. So, if they’re not from the US, they should have their passport on them.
Shruggity.
I think its more important to keep the damn Canadians out.
We should have border patrol at the shores of Lake Superior.
Yeah, well, sometimes I drink.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Jul 13, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm from the US
but how can I prove that without carrying my birth certificate or passport on me?
Note: I don’t carry my birth certificate.
Seriously: why is a state-issued drivers license insufficient? Does arizona not have barcode/magnetic strip readers to verify the authenticity of such documents or not trust them? In which case, why would they trust MY PA, CA or WI drivers license?
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh.
I don’t know where my birth certificate is. And I certainly don’t know where my other shit is.
Shruggity.
Never misplaced your wallet before?
Besides, is a Social Security card sufficient for ID purposes under the AZ law?
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
i would think not
my soc security card just has a name and number
anyone with a home laser printer can print up a card that has a name and number that is exactly the correct size. Although state IDs are often forged, it takes a whole lot more effort to do so.
a soc security card is not as forgery-proof as passports or state IDs and never serves as a primary form of identification (sometimes as a secondary).
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Though, I will agree that a state issued liscense should be sufficient
provided there’s detailed enough background checking when applying for a license… which I think there is.
Shruggity.
I believe a driver's license is sufficient evidence for SB 1070.
But no, they don’t check that hard when getting a license. Plenty of illegal immigrants have AZ driver’s licenses. Which in my mind means that the law can’t do a whole lot.
Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.
So, what's everyone's hissy fit about then?
If they can still get away with what they’re doing, who cares?
Shruggity.
Right, but it's a little more complex
The law says:
A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL IDENTIFICATION.
4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.
Clear enough, right? But here’s the problem: let’s say you get pulled over and forgot your wallet at home. By that law, you are presumed to be illegal.
But
What if you get pulled over, you have your license, and you’re from a state that doesn’t require proof of citizenship? Are you an illegal?
Fair enough
It’s absolutely insane that any state would give out a license without requiring proof of citizenship.
But again, know the laws of the places you’re traveling in, and plan accordingly.
Shruggity.
According to Arizona
Illinois, New Mexico, Washington, and Utah aren’t up to snuff. They don’t verify lawful presence in the US before issuing a license.
SRS BSNS
Why do you think I'm so vocal?
I really want to go to the homerun derby next year (send me your nickels now, I’ll ‘give’ them to Berman)
Heh...
Only place I’ve ever been where they have orange flags at crosswalks that pedestrians are supposed to carry when crossing the street.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Those things cause so many accidents
People just grab a flag and jump in the street without looking. Horrible idea.
Madison had those on a couple of intersections
back in 1998 or so
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Had?
They no longer have them?
In Madison, I imagine that the city would have to replace them quite often… particularly after weekends.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
i'm not sure
I just remember them existing around then. I don’t remember what street (Atwood maybe?) but I haven’t even been back to the city in 10 years or so.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Madison still has pedestrian flags
at some intersections. Mostly in neighborhoods where the odds of their disappearing after weekends are diminished.
Stop the madness! Stop the losing!
I don't think so
“ANY VALID UNITED STATES STATE ISSUED IDENTIFICATION”
If arizona contends that specific other states’ licenses aren’t valid, then that should apply regardless of the color of the person’s skin or accent of their voice, and should put out a general advisory to citizens of that state that in order to come to the state of arizona they will need to get a US passport, even if they don’t intend to leave the country. That’ll throw a wrench in family travel plans though for people with 2 year-olds.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
P.S.
I wonder if the Grand Canyon will get fewer visitors as a result of this law. I assume this law still applies to children under 18 and 16, so those not of legal age to drive a car would have to get a state-issued ID to travel with their parents? That’s dumb.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
(or is this straw man, because I don't have the full text of the law in front of me)
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd think there'd be some
parental/age related exemptions, but I can’t attest to knowing for sure.
Shruggity.
True.
But not carrying the ID isn’t breaking the law. At least not a law you’d get caught for breaking if you weren’t breaking another law.
Shruggity.
Right
but laws are numerous and complex. It’s possible to break a law without realizing it, and without doing anything that’s clearly stupid.
Well, my comment was regarding carrying your ID
forgetting your wallet is stupid. Don’t do that.
Shruggity.
Ah, gotcha.
I don’t know if I’d agree that accidentally forgetting or misplacing something is stupid, but I see what you mean.
so...basically what this is saying is that in AZ
you don’t just need a license to drive, but you need to keep your drivers’ license, state ID or passport on your person at all times in order to be allowed to breathe the air of arizona.
I’ve gone for jogs without a license in my pocket before, and it seems silly to require citizens to carry something on them at all times. That’d get in the way of any nude mile-type running events:P
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Unless your license requires proof of citizenship to get.
In which case, just the license is fine.
Shruggity.
The logic is that
people are going to drive if they are legal or not. It’s more important that people know the rules of the road and have a license than not have a license because they’re illegal.
they should have a
drivers permit with the word “illegal immigrant” or “temporary visa, expires xx/xxxx”, etc emblazoned across the permit.
I don’t dispute that I’d rather them know the rules of the road, but they shouldn’t be issued a document that indicates (to other states) that they have a right to be here.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't disagree with your intent,
but do you honestly think an illegal immigrant would willingly put him/herself in the ‘system’ as an illegal?
whatever tag you want to call it
“non-visa’d temporary worker”
“unverified identity” (as no TIN/SSN available)
“not authorized US Citizen”
If ANYONE doesn’t have valid ID when applying for a drivers license, they get something like that…or no license at all. Even if the applicant’s uncle works at the DMV. If issued a “not authorized” license, people can always contest it and get issued a new license when they demonstrate the proper paperwork.
It’s more inclusive than current standards that don’t allow illegals to have licenses, but less inclusive than us all putting on blindfolds and giving people who can drive for the duration of a 20 minute test and be photographed a license saying that they’re Muammar al-Gaddafi, Tupac Shakur, Pikachu or Craig Counsell.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
You're wrong
No one would say that they’re Craig Counsell… it would be blasphemy.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
It's against my programming to impersonate a deity.

Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.
by Yar Nivek on Jul 13, 2010 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And, in this day and age,
almost anything qualifies as “suspicious” activity.
Looking in the window of a store too long? You’re casing the place.
SRS BSNS
by Rubie Q on Jul 13, 2010 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hate to get into any sort of political discussion (Hooray Rambling Al!)
But that’s where the debate is. “Suspicious Activity” is very subjective. Is a Hispanic person more likely to be perceived as doing something suspicious? And is a Hispanic person more likely to be perceived as driving recklessly, or more likely to get pulled over for speeding. That’s where the question of racial profiling comes in and though I don’t think anyone is questioning that it’s bad for people to be in Arizona illegally, they don’t want a witch hunt that unfairly penalizes legal Hispanic immigrants for being Hispanic.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Jul 13, 2010 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
I am sooooo glad I didn't look at the mug today until just now.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 13, 2010 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Not for nothing, but...
… 29% of Arizona’s population was estimated to be Hispanic in 2006. The 2010 census will likely have it over 30%. That percentage calculation doesn’t take into account illegal immigrants of any ethnic heritage, which may mean that the actual populace in Arizona on any given day may already be well in excess of 30% Hispanic.
That’s a lot of people to racially profile. Those cops better get started.
By the way, 38% of Arizona cops also happen to be Hispanic according to AZ police officer unions.
“Suspicious activity”, or reasonable suspicion or illegal activity, is a subjective standard. It’s also the same standard cops use every hour of every day. I’m not sure why the concept of them using it in this particular law is so much more worrisome than it is during the enforcement of any other statute.
It strikes me that the real question should be whether a state has the right to subvert what is otherwise clearly an area of federal jurisdiction when the feds haven’t conferred that jurisdiction on the state by legislative fiat. There are pretty good arguments, in my opinion, to be made against the notion that a state can take a federal crime (for lack of a better term) and make it a state offense simply because they don’t like the way the feds are choosing to enforce (or not enforce) that particular law. There are even better arguments, in my opinion, to be made against a law that increases the chances that a largely economically productive and non-criminally oriented group of people will be thrown out of the country on what is, in the end, a failure to complete the appropriate paperwork.
Given all that, I’m not sure why we have to invoke the specter of prejudiced officers harassing Hispanics without cause in order to attack this particular law. Up above, someone was castigated for making a generalization that opponents of law might be “feigning outrage” to make themselves feel good. I’m not sure why it’s not ok to think that of the law’s critics but it is ok to believe that officers will now utilize the law to infringe on the rights of Hispanics regardless of whether they are citizens, legal immigrants or illegal immigrants.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 13, 2010 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
When I lived overseas, I didn't carry my passport all the time
just my ID card. Lose your passport (or get it pick-pocketed), you’ve got some potential issues. So I kept mine in a safe place all the time. I would think most do the same.
by dickie_thon on Jul 13, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
My passport (plus my DL and all my cash) was stolen in the UK once.
I got to spend much of the next day at the US Embassy in London trying to convince them I was who I said I was, though I had no ID. If it had been post 9/11 I might still be there.
By the way, while I was grateful for the fact that eventually concluded I was telling the truth, the amount of my personal information they were able to obtain on me from independent sources within a half hour even in that era (the internet was born already, but it was still using a pacifier, and I had never used it myself), was pretty much terrifying. “What is your parent’s address? What is the last name of the people who live across the street from your parents? (Not. Kidding. That one really freaked me out.) What’s your mother’s middle name? Her maiden name? Where did you go to high school?”
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 13, 2010 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Nor did I
I attended graduate school in London and kept my passport in a safe.
As for the driver’s license comments above, my gf is European and she never had a driver’s license until about 2 years ago. (She lived in a big city in Europe and now lives in NY — she has little cause to drive. In fact, many New Yorkers do not have a driver’s license, because there is no need. What happens when they visit AZ?) Her current license does, in fact, state when her visa expires (though I’m not sure all states do this). So she carries her passport and visa with her (in her purse) at most times. If she’s going to the gym or just for a walk, she won’t. Considering AZ is about 120 degrees in summer and most people are by the pool, there is a decent chance that someone like her (who is normally conscientious) would not be carrying her papers.
Realistically, she probably wouldn’t get stopped. I, on the other hand, might. In fact, after September 11, I was “randomly searched” almost 100% of the time in the airport and it made me angry. So to the point above about the enforcement of certain laws being higher on certain groups, I expect that to happen. (Btw, I was born and raised in WI.)
At the end of the day, though, the biggest issues to me are: (a) being required to carry papers; (b) TSSC’s point about states changing the standards for an item in the federal jurisdiction. This is the point of the Obama lawsuit against AZ, which is discussed to some extent here.
by Capt Science on Jul 14, 2010 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions
I have a buddy who's a native of Mexico...
… but who has lived in the US since he was about 3. He’s here legally. The nature of his father’s occupation, and of his own education and eventual occupation, resulted in and continues to result in frequent moves around the country, which essentially made it impossible for him to become a naturalized citizen until recently.
He is almost cartoonishly conservative and more or less acts like any upper midwesterner I’ve ever met, regardless of their political leanings. He also has a relatively dark complexion, and occasionally has been mistaken for being from various middle eastern countries in the time I’ve known him. After 9/11, he was “randomly searched” every time he went through the airport, and he didn’t care about the searches. I was flying with him from New York to Madison on one occasion when he was again selected for a random search. I heard him ask the TSA officer why he was being searched? “It’s random.” His response: “Yeah, well, I’ve been randomly searched the last six times I’ve flown somewhere, so I don’t buy that. If you think I look like a terrorist, that’s ok. Just tell me that. But don’t tell me it’s random.” The TSA officer looked a little startled, glanced over at me (where I was trying not to laugh), and then said “It’s random.”
My buddy confirmed afterwards that he didn’t care about the fact that he was searched more than I was (I being a pale, nerdy guy from WI), he just didn’t like the fact that they told him it was random, because he didn’t like being lied to.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 14, 2010 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Yo was my favorite Brewer before his statement,
and now I have even more respect for the guy. Go Yo!
by charmar on Jul 13, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
I'll be impressed when
a white guy that was born in america protests playing in arizona because of the law
like Craig Counsell
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Craig Counsell was not born.
He has always existed.
SRS BSNS
by Rubie Q on Jul 13, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
Or when someone protests
playing in Wisconsin because of the idiotic corporate tax structure!
Shruggity.
Don't worry. Somebody will.
Remember, Steve Nash is Canadian and employed in Arizona. He’s already been pretty vocal about it.
Yeah, well, sometimes I drink.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Jul 13, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
my hat's off to him then - probably no one would question if he had claimed he was US-born
although a US born player would be better
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
we might as well stop this, Kyle is going to throw the No Politics yellow flag so no sense in keeping this up
"It's a joke. It's all a joke.
Pirates re-acquire Bixler
Because when you’re 28 games under .500 in July, you need a guy who’ll cool the crowd off by whiffing.
Eagerly awaiting SBN Madison.
"Hart was given 11-2 odds to win the Derby, the second most favorable odds behind Miguel Cabrera and the event's eventual winner, David Ortiz."
um….third most? or you’re saying there was another entry in between that’s not listed?
well if that is the case you might as well enjoy this
Mild not safe for work no nudity but she has huge tracts of land ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vNqfqoExwk
"It's a joke. It's all a joke.
Politics aside
People really have a problem with Yovani speaking his opinion on something in response to a reporter’s question? Really?
Ugh…
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Jul 13, 2010 3:51 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
why just the AS Game?
If he really is that informed and this bothers him this much why not skip the games there this year and what about next years spring training gasp how can he spend a whole month surrounded by all those evil Arizonians?
I mean come on Yo if you are going to believe in something than really believe in it.
Lets see him put his money where his mouth is.
"It's a joke. It's all a joke.
Trade stuff
via “BrewerNation” on Twitter:
“Heard this: #Brewers/#Rays negotiating names 2 B involved in possible deal. Source indicates Matt Sweeney & either Wade Davis or Matt Moore.”
“Follow up to previous post: Told #Rays prefer to move Davis but #Brewers prefer Moore.”
I’m not sure how credible that is though.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
Christ.
All that effort today for this:
@haudricourt: Brewers RHP Yovani Gallardo says he wasn’t quoted properly Monday and won’t necessarily boycott 2011 ASG in AZ if selected.
SRS BSNS
Front office probably made him take it back, but we all know what he really meant
Go Yo!
Ryan Braun: He loves it.



































