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Around SBN: Ohio State And Florida Target 2013 Receiver Recruits

Tuesday's Frosty Mug

The sunglasses joke is just too easy. I refuse.

Some things to read while living up to predictions.

Corey Hart got off to a hot start in the Home Run Derby last night, leading after the first round and even becoming a trending topic on Twitter. With that said, the extended wait between rounds in one of the game's most drawn out events took its toll on Hart, who went homerless in the second round and failed to advance to the finals.

Other notes on Hart in the derby:

Now, our attention turns to tonight's game. Ryan Braun and Corey Hart are batting sixth and eighth for the NL, respectively, and playing left and right field. There had been some speculation that Hart would end up playing center, but NL manager Charlie Manuel opted to start Andre Ethier there instead. If you're looking to plan tonight's TV viewing, here are a few quick notes:

  • The game *broadcast* starts at 7 on Fox, but there's no way they'll get to the first pitch before 7:30.
  • Unless the NL rallies in the first inning, Braun and Hart likely won't hit until the top of the second at the earliest, at roughly 7:45-7:50.
  • If you're looking to get to bed early having Braun and Hart in the starting lineup is good news: They'll both be done by the fifth inning, which might wrap up before 11.

Yovani Gallardo is missing this year's game as he continues to rehab his oblique injury, and it's possible he'll miss next year's contest too: Gallardo told reporters he would boycott the 2011 game in Arizona as a protest against Arizona's new immigration laws. (h/t Jordan Schelling)

Off the field, Scott Boras made headlines with comments about Prince Fielder and the Brewers' chances of re-signing him, saying Fielder compares favorably to Mark Teixeira (FanShot). It's more or less a confirmation of what we already knew: Boras intends to play the market with Fielder, and the Brewers stand virtually no chance of convincing him otherwise.

Boras told reporters that Fielder could be the difference between 2.4 million and 3 million fans in attendance at Miller Park. Even if Fielder really is responsible for 25% of the Brewers' paid attendance, In-Between Hops suggests the revenue gain wouldn't be enough to pay his contract.

On the other end of the spectrum, Corey Hart told reporters he'd like to stay in Milwaukee and would be open to an extension. Hart is in the middle of a career year, so the fact that he'd like to cash in on it is less than surprising. Pat Andriola of FanGraphs listed Hart as one of four sell high candidates.

But, maybe it's not a career year after all. The B-Ref Blog breaks down the numbers and makes the case that Hart may actually have had more value in 2007 when he grounded into fewer double plays and was more valuable running the bases and on defense.

Ryan Braun is back near home in Anaheim, and told Tom Haudricourt it's a special experience to be able to share the festivities with his friends and family.

If you had told me before the season that Gregg Zaun would be at the All Star Game, I would have been pretty excited. If you'd told me he'd be there as a correspondent for Rogers Sportsnet, less so.

Zaun was actually one of the better grades on Brewed Sports' report card for Doug Melvin's offseason acquisitions. Melvin escaped with a 1.66 GPA overall.

Jim Edmonds might not be in Anaheim this week, but that didn't keep him from making Jeff Pearlman's "all-shitheel" interview team (h/t BBTF). Braves organist Matthew Kaminski is already working on walkup music for Edmonds when the Brewers are in town this week. He also has ideas for Carlos Gomez and Rickie Weeks.

Looking way ahead: The Brewers open the second half with four game sets in Atlanta and Pittsburgh, then face the Nationals for three games at home July 23-25. Jordan Schelling notes that Washington has set their second half rotation and the Brewers will likely miss Stephen Strasburg.

In the minors:

  • Just one day after representing the Brewers at the Futures Game in Anaheim, Brett Lawrie was back in Huntsville and struck out in a pinch hit appearance in the Southern League All Star Game last night. Lawrie took a moment to discuss the double All Star appearances with John Turner of the Huntsville Times. Michael Bowman also pitched a perfect third inning in the game.
  • MLB FanHouse has video of Lawrie from the Futures Game.
  • Amaury Rivas was also selected but did not appear in the SL game: As Battlekow noted, he's apparently nursing a minor injury.
  • The AAA All Star Game is also this week, and reliever Mike McClendon and infielder Luis Cruz will represent Nashville.
  • In games that actually count, the affiliates went 2-2 last night. The game of the day was played in Appleton, where the Timber Rattlers 4-6 hitters (Kentrail Davis, Khris Davis and Hunter Morris) combined to go 9-for-12 with three walks, two doubles, a triple, a home run and eleven runs scored in Wisconsin's 15-12 win over Burlington. You can read about that and more in today's Minor League Notes.
  • Baseball America is reporting the Brewers have released Kristian Bueno, a 2007 ninth round pick who had struggled through four minor league seasons, posting a 6.86 ERA in 102.1 innings and failing to advance past Helena. The team has also moved outfielder Chad Stang and catcher Kevin Melillo to the 60-day DL. Stang was an 8th round pick in 2009, and Melillo was selected in the 31st round in 2010.
  • Wisconsin Sports Tap has a look at what's become of several Brewer farmhands traded away over the last few seasons.

Here's something I would not have suspected: A recent Harris poll shows that the Brewers are baseball's 11th most popular team, up from 14th last season. The poll shows them as being more popular than the Tigers, Mariners, White Sox and Angels, among others.

On power rankings:

If you weren't around early this morning, you might have missed an important announcement: The Brew Crew Ball Trade Deadline Primer is out and ready for your purchase (check out the comments of that post for pictures from ecocd). A compilation of efforts from writers covering every major league team, it features over 180 pages of essays, player profiles and more on the Brewers, their NL Central rivals and potential trade partners. It's only $9.95, and you can purchase and download it at this link.

Here's something I should've mentioned in the first post this morning: major credit is due to the guys over at TwinsCentric for putting this project together: They've been great to work with through the whole project. They also have their own version of the book, as do friends of the site Crashburn AlleyThe Crawfish BoxesIt's About the Money and others.

If you weren't around yesterday, you might have missed a guest post from Lar of Wezen-ball on Brewer home run trots. Do yourself a favor and go back and read it, if you haven't already.

Elsewhere in shameless self-promotion: If you haven't yet, please take a moment to vote in this week's BCB Tracking Poll. The poll will remain open until noon today and results will be posted tomorrow.

Around baseball:

Dodgers: Released pitcher Jesus Colome.
Pirates: Acquired infielder Brian Bixler from the Indians for a PTBNL.

Can you name the best season ever by a Brewer who wasn't an All Star? At Wezen-ball, The Daily Something makes the case for Mike Caldwell, who had the sixth best season ever by a non-honoree in 1978.

Our condolences go out this morning to Yankee fans and the friends and family of longtime Yankee owner George Steinbrenner, who suffered a massive heart attack and passed away early this morning. Steinbrenner was 80.

On this day in 2008, CC Sabathia pitched a complete game and hit a home run in the Brewers' 3-2 win over the Reds.

Happy birthday today to:

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have Micro Machines on pause.

Drink up.

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First comment on the all-shitheel team:
How about the all-shitheel interviewER team? Because I have a nomination.

http://www.mlbsoup.com

by tcyoung on Jul 13, 2010 11:28 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

I like it

Eagerly awaiting SBN Madison.

by TheJay on Jul 13, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Arizona Law

Not trying to single out Gallardo here, but if a player is willing to boycott the All Star game next year because of the new immigration law, why arent they willing to boycott the 3 games (or 10 if in the division) they will play there in regular season games? The answer is pretty obvious.

It just seems like a shallow protest.

by backtocali on Jul 13, 2010 11:53 AM CDT reply actions  

I think it's a measure of exposure

Though I pretty much agree with you. ASG game is a national story, Brewers vs. D-Backs is a story that the 2 teams fans barely care about (at least this year).

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

disagree.

If a player boycotted an entire series, one that matters, even if it’s a Brewers player, it would be huge national news.

http://www.mlbsoup.com

by tcyoung on Jul 13, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

My guess...

And I have nothing but pure speculation, their contract.

All Star Game is opt-in opt-out type thing, while if they skipped regular season games they may be liable for action. While you get a nice bonus for a all star selection, you wouldn’t be giving up money by not going.

by SgtClueLs on Jul 13, 2010 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

This.

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Jul 13, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thats exactly my point

If you want to boycott the ASG because its more prominent thats great. At the very worst he might be out some bonus money. But the revolutionary in me would rather see him also boycott those MIL vs ARI games and if the Brewers dock his pay, then he’s really saying something.

 I’m willing to bet that the Players Union would be there with him on the issue and could probably then turn it into a big revenue issue for the state. I love the fact that he is doing “something” on the issue, I would just rather see it go further, not only for him but for anyone who has stated this intent/belief.

by backtocali on Jul 13, 2010 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Remember when "Montreal" played half their home games in Puerto Rico?

They could force the Dbacks to do that just so players would participate. Or have the games in Mexico, that would truly be ironic.

Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.

by Yar Nivek on Jul 13, 2010 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

i disagree

i don’t have any problem with what yovani is saying. besides, boycotting a brewers series in AZ doesn’t impact the state of arizona. the games will be played. the brewers get hurt in that instance and the diamondbacks get an advantage.

however, if cactus league teams move to the grapefruit league or players refuse to report to spring training (and instead practice elsewhere), then that would have an economic impact on arizona.

frankly, economics are the only thing arizona is going to listen to, as once you start piling on them, they get defiant. MLK day was an issue forever until the NFL just up and said “you’ll never get another superbowl again” and then they added it. if MLB really wanted to make a big deal out of this and threatened to move spring training or the AFL and the all-star game, things are more likely to happen.

to me, though, the biggest deal is in the enforcement of the law. it’s one thing if it’s like most seatbelt laws (they can’t pull you over for it, but if you’re pulled over for something else, they can add it on), but if they can just stop people and ask for papers, that’s different. my understanding is that it’s more like the seatbelts.

by Capt Science on Jul 13, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Sadly, its sort of like the seatbelts, but far more pervasive

shortly after it was passed I was reading an article about a trucker who was stopped at a weigh station. He had his drivers license, but no birth certificate/passport/etc. and had to wait there for his wife to bring it bc the authorities were keeping him there.

by dtmeyers on Jul 13, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

The law has not gone into effect yet, IIRC.

Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.

by Yar Nivek on Jul 13, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

No idea.

I just looked it up, the “effective date” is July 29th.

Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.

by Yar Nivek on Jul 13, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

it was a linked story

from a basketball blog article about the suns, iirc

by dtmeyers on Jul 13, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just lost a lot of respect for Yo

Nice how he is assuming he will be there. Since the AZ law is a carbon copy of the Federal law shouldn’t Yo be boycotting every game played in the United States?

I wonder if Yo could even tell you what the AZ law actually said or if the MJS Baseball writers would have the balls to ask him if he has even read the law

Up yours Yo

"It's a joke. It's all a joke.

by WSB Chris on Jul 13, 2010 11:57 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Just another issue that celebrities feel like they need to lend their support to like Tibet, Darfur, The Oil Spill, The Cubs etc…

"I agree but dont agree"

by juggernaut400 on Jul 13, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fine

then donate some money. No one’s boycotting games in Houston because of the oil spill.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

This isn't a massive tragedy like those other examples,

I’ll give you that. Nor is it inhumane treatment of people like some of them

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok, I used poor judgement when I listed the examples
Nor is it inhumane treatment of people like some of them

Isn’t “inhumane treatment” the basis for the opposition of the national Arizona law? Apparently its inhumane to make people carry around proper identification. .

I just hate when celebs try to be the general public’s moral compass. I guess my main problem with the baseball side of this is that many players who are outraged by the Arizona law are not even citizens of this country but are allowed to play ball here and make millions of dollars that they cant make in their home countries. Many of us don’t agree 100% with the opinions of our bosses but we still go to work.

"I agree but dont agree"

by juggernaut400 on Jul 13, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed, 100%

Do your job. Don’t use the celebrity we give you to shove your opinion down our throat.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fair enough. I was a little harsh

Still hope he forfeits any bonus he’d otherwise get.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wait what?

I’m not sure where you get the fact it’s a carbon copy of the federal law. IIRC Federal Law doesn’t require proof of citizenship be carried on you at all times, while the State law does. You can’t detain someone for simply not having ze papers, while AZ basically says they can detain you if they suspect you are not legal if you don’t have ze papers on you.

He can express his dislike of the law in any form he wants. It’s not going to hurt our club at all if he avoids the all star game. It’s a joke of a game anyways.

by SgtClueLs on Jul 13, 2010 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

And that's fine

But don’t spread half truths as fact.

by SgtClueLs on Jul 13, 2010 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I hope

he doesn’t get that bonus money if he boycotts.

Carry ID, it’s not that hard, I do it every day. Or don’t break the law, that’s even easier.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Says...

A white male who probably will never be asked to prove citizenship.

Forget your wallet, enjoy detainment.

by SgtClueLs on Jul 13, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Probably not

but if asked, I could. It’s not hard to carry a piece of paper with you. Is it? Maybe it is. Maybe Arizona has a pocket-shortage I was unaware of.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

You are missing the point

You are automatically assumed guilty instead of innocent in matters of citizenship if you forget your wallet and look foreign. Doesn’t that go against it..

by SgtClueLs on Jul 13, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Who forgets their wallet? Ever?

I guess there’s more forgetful people than I thought. Maybe this law will help peoples memory. Also, if you obey the laws, this doesn’t ever become an issue. So, obey the laws, and there’s zero problem. Don’t obey the laws, suffer the consequences.

But, as Chris said, no place for this here, not even remotely baseball related (which is why the boycott is silly)

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

"So, obey the laws, and there’s zero problem."

I think there is definitely a problem with that logic.

by MillerParkSouth on Jul 13, 2010 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

There is?

Which laws should I be ignoring?

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dude, you're Mr. Contrarian.

I’m sure you’ve heard of civil disobedience.

SRS BSNS

by Rubie Q on Jul 13, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sure have.

But people who “civilly disobey” are still breaking the law, and people are going to have a problem with it. So, I’m not sure what MPS’s point is.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

You shouldn't ignore any law

but there’s definitely a problem with saying “just do what the government says and you’ll be fine.”

by MillerParkSouth on Jul 13, 2010 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's not what I said.

If you knowingly disobey a law and don’t expect a problem, then you’re dumb. I’m not saying you shouldn’t knowingly disobey a law, just anticipate the consequences.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think he'd be violating the law.

And I’m not saying don’t do it, I just have an issue with people using their celebrity to get a point across. Too many people blindly follow and don’t make up their own mind about things.

Just an opinion.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Too many people blindly follow and don’t make up their own mind about things.

Are you accusing Yo or us of doing that? Or both?

SRS BSNS

by Rubie Q on Jul 13, 2010 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nah, neither.

not accusing anyone in particular of doing that. Just saying that too many people blindly follow celebrity, and I’m not a huge fan of celebrities taking advantage of that.

I think most posters here are smart enough to make up their own mind.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe

it depends. Was he asked if he’d boycott it? If not, and he brought it up, then definitely. If he was asked, then probably not. But public figures have to speak more carefully than others (which is stupid, but the way it works).

If he brought it up on his own, I totally disapprove. If he didn’t, then whatever, he was just answering a question

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, based on the way the article was written,

it seemed that there was a reporter going around asking all the Hispanic players at the AS Game for their opinions.

SRS BSNS

by Rubie Q on Jul 13, 2010 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Now that multiple hispanic players have come out and said they're going to boycott

There will be a lot of pressure on all latino players to boycott. They will start to boycott in order to not be chastized.

http://www.mlbsoup.com

by tcyoung on Jul 13, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I just had a problem with the implication that there was no issue if everyone just obeyed the law, ignoring the fact that a number of people take issue with the law abridging rights in a manner that implies an unspoken bias or inequality.

by MillerParkSouth on Jul 13, 2010 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

understandable.

I don’t see this law abridging rights anymore than any other law, so there’s our point of difference.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've done it

Or left my ID in the bank cash thing. Or had it stolen.. there are various reasons why someone could be with out ID. Like maybe swimming.

Boy.. driving for 6 hours for work sure gets a ton of responses.

by SgtClueLs on Jul 13, 2010 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep. Sure have.

And guess what, I’ve had my ID on me every single time.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, sorry I should stop talkign about it here,

I just find it frustrating that so many self-righteous people are feigning outrage over it to make themselves feel like a better person.

http://www.mlbsoup.com

by tcyoung on Jul 13, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I just find it frustrating that so many self-righteous people are feigning outrage over it to make themselves feel like a better person.

You’re painting with a pretty broad brush right there.

SRS BSNS

by Rubie Q on Jul 13, 2010 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm going to strongly caution you

Against accusing everyone who disagrees with the law of “feigning outrage.”

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Jul 13, 2010 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm not accusing everyone of feigning outrage

I didn’t mean for it to be read as a sweeping generalization. There are clearly many people who are arguing the law, but have no clue what their talking about. (Take Peggy West, for example) Those people have gotten me worked up over the law, and that’s why I felt the need to post my thoughts. I wasn’t talking about anyone on here, or Yo, and I certainly wasn’t trying to lump everyone who argues the law into the same group. There are plenty of folks who present VERY smart, thought-provoking arguments on both sides. But it’s the ones who don’t that have gotten me emotionally invested.

http://www.mlbsoup.com

by tcyoung on Jul 13, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

passports don't fit in wallets

I carry my wallet everywhere (with drivers lic)…not my passport

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Traveling where?

In the continental United States? No, I don’t.

SRS BSNS

by Rubie Q on Jul 13, 2010 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

But, if I were from, say Canada

and were in the US for whatever reason, I would. No question about it. So, if they’re not from the US, they should have their passport on them.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think its more important to keep the damn Canadians out.

We should have border patrol at the shores of Lake Superior.

Yeah, well, sometimes I drink.

by Dikembe Meiztombo on Jul 13, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm from the US

but how can I prove that without carrying my birth certificate or passport on me?

Note: I don’t carry my birth certificate.

Seriously: why is a state-issued drivers license insufficient? Does arizona not have barcode/magnetic strip readers to verify the authenticity of such documents or not trust them? In which case, why would they trust MY PA, CA or WI drivers license?

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

No way.

That’s in the safe with my birth certificate and other shit like that.

SRS BSNS

by Rubie Q on Jul 13, 2010 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh.

I don’t know where my birth certificate is. And I certainly don’t know where my other shit is.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah?

I’m sitting on the thing all day, good luck getting it.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I dunno.

Now that we know that you’re a hot babe in real life …

SRS BSNS

by Rubie Q on Jul 13, 2010 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Never misplaced your wallet before?

Besides, is a Social Security card sufficient for ID purposes under the AZ law?

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Jul 13, 2010 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dunno, I would hope so.

And no, my wallet doesn’t get misplaced.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

i would think not

my soc security card just has a name and number

anyone with a home laser printer can print up a card that has a name and number that is exactly the correct size. Although state IDs are often forged, it takes a whole lot more effort to do so.

a soc security card is not as forgery-proof as passports or state IDs and never serves as a primary form of identification (sometimes as a secondary).

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Though, I will agree that a state issued liscense should be sufficient

provided there’s detailed enough background checking when applying for a license… which I think there is.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I believe a driver's license is sufficient evidence for SB 1070.

But no, they don’t check that hard when getting a license. Plenty of illegal immigrants have AZ driver’s licenses. Which in my mind means that the law can’t do a whole lot.

Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.

by Yar Nivek on Jul 13, 2010 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

So, what's everyone's hissy fit about then?

If they can still get away with what they’re doing, who cares?

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right, but it's a little more complex

The law says:

A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:

1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.

2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.

3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL IDENTIFICATION.

4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.

Clear enough, right? But here’s the problem: let’s say you get pulled over and forgot your wallet at home. By that law, you are presumed to be illegal.

by CoreySLC on Jul 13, 2010 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sort of like saying...

guility until proven innocent.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Jul 13, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

What if you're from another state?

Many states don’t require proof of citizenship.

by CoreySLC on Jul 13, 2010 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

But

What if you get pulled over, you have your license, and you’re from a state that doesn’t require proof of citizenship? Are you an illegal?

by CoreySLC on Jul 13, 2010 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fair enough

It’s absolutely insane that any state would give out a license without requiring proof of citizenship.

But again, know the laws of the places you’re traveling in, and plan accordingly.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

According to Arizona

Illinois, New Mexico, Washington, and Utah aren’t up to snuff. They don’t verify lawful presence in the US before issuing a license.

SRS BSNS

by Rubie Q on Jul 13, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why do you think I'm so vocal?

I really want to go to the homerun derby next year (send me your nickels now, I’ll ‘give’ them to Berman)

by CoreySLC on Jul 13, 2010 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Heh...

Only place I’ve ever been where they have orange flags at crosswalks that pedestrians are supposed to carry when crossing the street.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Jul 13, 2010 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Those things cause so many accidents

People just grab a flag and jump in the street without looking. Horrible idea.

by CoreySLC on Jul 13, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Had?

They no longer have them?

In Madison, I imagine that the city would have to replace them quite often… particularly after weekends.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Jul 13, 2010 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

i'm not sure

I just remember them existing around then. I don’t remember what street (Atwood maybe?) but I haven’t even been back to the city in 10 years or so.

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Madison still has pedestrian flags

at some intersections. Mostly in neighborhoods where the odds of their disappearing after weekends are diminished.

Stop the madness! Stop the losing!

by hawing on Jul 13, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think so

“ANY VALID UNITED STATES STATE ISSUED IDENTIFICATION”

If arizona contends that specific other states’ licenses aren’t valid, then that should apply regardless of the color of the person’s skin or accent of their voice, and should put out a general advisory to citizens of that state that in order to come to the state of arizona they will need to get a US passport, even if they don’t intend to leave the country. That’ll throw a wrench in family travel plans though for people with 2 year-olds.

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

P.S.

I wonder if the Grand Canyon will get fewer visitors as a result of this law. I assume this law still applies to children under 18 and 16, so those not of legal age to drive a car would have to get a state-issued ID to travel with their parents? That’s dumb.

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nope.

You’re just not presumed to be legal.

SRS BSNS

by Rubie Q on Jul 13, 2010 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Big difference between

“Don’t be stupid” and “Don’t break the law”.

by dickie_thon on Jul 13, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

True.

But not carrying the ID isn’t breaking the law. At least not a law you’d get caught for breaking if you weren’t breaking another law.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right

but laws are numerous and complex. It’s possible to break a law without realizing it, and without doing anything that’s clearly stupid.

by dickie_thon on Jul 13, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, my comment was regarding carrying your ID

forgetting your wallet is stupid. Don’t do that.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ah, gotcha.

I don’t know if I’d agree that accidentally forgetting or misplacing something is stupid, but I see what you mean.

by dickie_thon on Jul 13, 2010 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

so...basically what this is saying is that in AZ

you don’t just need a license to drive, but you need to keep your drivers’ license, state ID or passport on your person at all times in order to be allowed to breathe the air of arizona.

I’ve gone for jogs without a license in my pocket before, and it seems silly to require citizens to carry something on them at all times. That’d get in the way of any nude mile-type running events:P

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

The logic is that

people are going to drive if they are legal or not. It’s more important that people know the rules of the road and have a license than not have a license because they’re illegal.

by CoreySLC on Jul 13, 2010 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

they should have a

drivers permit with the word “illegal immigrant” or “temporary visa, expires xx/xxxx”, etc emblazoned across the permit.

I don’t dispute that I’d rather them know the rules of the road, but they shouldn’t be issued a document that indicates (to other states) that they have a right to be here.

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't disagree with your intent,

but do you honestly think an illegal immigrant would willingly put him/herself in the ‘system’ as an illegal?

by CoreySLC on Jul 13, 2010 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

whatever tag you want to call it

“non-visa’d temporary worker”
“unverified identity” (as no TIN/SSN available)
“not authorized US Citizen”

If ANYONE doesn’t have valid ID when applying for a drivers license, they get something like that…or no license at all. Even if the applicant’s uncle works at the DMV. If issued a “not authorized” license, people can always contest it and get issued a new license when they demonstrate the proper paperwork.

It’s more inclusive than current standards that don’t allow illegals to have licenses, but less inclusive than us all putting on blindfolds and giving people who can drive for the duration of a 20 minute test and be photographed a license saying that they’re Muammar al-Gaddafi, Tupac Shakur, Pikachu or Craig Counsell.

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're wrong

No one would say that they’re Craig Counsell… it would be blasphemy.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Jul 13, 2010 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's against my programming to impersonate a deity.

Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.

by Yar Nivek on Jul 13, 2010 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

And, in this day and age,

almost anything qualifies as “suspicious” activity.

Looking in the window of a store too long? You’re casing the place.

SRS BSNS

by Rubie Q on Jul 13, 2010 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

This.

Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.

by Yar Nivek on Jul 13, 2010 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

When I lived overseas, I didn't carry my passport all the time

just my ID card. Lose your passport (or get it pick-pocketed), you’ve got some potential issues. So I kept mine in a safe place all the time. I would think most do the same.

by dickie_thon on Jul 13, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

My passport (plus my DL and all my cash) was stolen in the UK once.

I got to spend much of the next day at the US Embassy in London trying to convince them I was who I said I was, though I had no ID. If it had been post 9/11 I might still be there.

By the way, while I was grateful for the fact that eventually concluded I was telling the truth, the amount of my personal information they were able to obtain on me from independent sources within a half hour even in that era (the internet was born already, but it was still using a pacifier, and I had never used it myself), was pretty much terrifying. “What is your parent’s address? What is the last name of the people who live across the street from your parents? (Not. Kidding. That one really freaked me out.) What’s your mother’s middle name? Her maiden name? Where did you go to high school?”

What begins in fear usually ends in folly.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 13, 2010 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nor did I

I attended graduate school in London and kept my passport in a safe.

As for the driver’s license comments above, my gf is European and she never had a driver’s license until about 2 years ago. (She lived in a big city in Europe and now lives in NY — she has little cause to drive. In fact, many New Yorkers do not have a driver’s license, because there is no need. What happens when they visit AZ?) Her current license does, in fact, state when her visa expires (though I’m not sure all states do this). So she carries her passport and visa with her (in her purse) at most times. If she’s going to the gym or just for a walk, she won’t. Considering AZ is about 120 degrees in summer and most people are by the pool, there is a decent chance that someone like her (who is normally conscientious) would not be carrying her papers.

Realistically, she probably wouldn’t get stopped. I, on the other hand, might. In fact, after September 11, I was “randomly searched” almost 100% of the time in the airport and it made me angry. So to the point above about the enforcement of certain laws being higher on certain groups, I expect that to happen. (Btw, I was born and raised in WI.)

At the end of the day, though, the biggest issues to me are: (a) being required to carry papers; (b) TSSC’s point about states changing the standards for an item in the federal jurisdiction. This is the point of the Obama lawsuit against AZ, which is discussed to some extent here.

by Capt Science on Jul 14, 2010 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have a buddy who's a native of Mexico...

… but who has lived in the US since he was about 3. He’s here legally. The nature of his father’s occupation, and of his own education and eventual occupation, resulted in and continues to result in frequent moves around the country, which essentially made it impossible for him to become a naturalized citizen until recently.

He is almost cartoonishly conservative and more or less acts like any upper midwesterner I’ve ever met, regardless of their political leanings. He also has a relatively dark complexion, and occasionally has been mistaken for being from various middle eastern countries in the time I’ve known him. After 9/11, he was “randomly searched” every time he went through the airport, and he didn’t care about the searches. I was flying with him from New York to Madison on one occasion when he was again selected for a random search. I heard him ask the TSA officer why he was being searched? “It’s random.” His response: “Yeah, well, I’ve been randomly searched the last six times I’ve flown somewhere, so I don’t buy that. If you think I look like a terrorist, that’s ok. Just tell me that. But don’t tell me it’s random.” The TSA officer looked a little startled, glanced over at me (where I was trying not to laugh), and then said “It’s random.”

My buddy confirmed afterwards that he didn’t care about the fact that he was searched more than I was (I being a pale, nerdy guy from WI), he just didn’t like the fact that they told him it was random, because he didn’t like being lied to.

What begins in fear usually ends in folly.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 14, 2010 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll be impressed when

a white guy that was born in america protests playing in arizona because of the law

like Craig Counsell

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 13, 2010 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Or when someone protests

playing in Wisconsin because of the idiotic corporate tax structure!

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 13, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't worry. Somebody will.

Remember, Steve Nash is Canadian and employed in Arizona. He’s already been pretty vocal about it.

Yeah, well, sometimes I drink.

by Dikembe Meiztombo on Jul 13, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pirates re-acquire Bixler

Because when you’re 28 games under .500 in July, you need a guy who’ll cool the crowd off by whiffing.

Eagerly awaiting SBN Madison.

by TheJay on Jul 13, 2010 12:28 PM CDT reply actions  

Politics aside

People really have a problem with Yovani speaking his opinion on something in response to a reporter’s question? Really?

Ugh…

Ryan Braun: He loves it.

by SRB on Jul 13, 2010 3:51 PM CDT reply actions   2 recs

why just the AS Game?

If he really is that informed and this bothers him this much why not skip the games there this year and what about next years spring training gasp how can he spend a whole month surrounded by all those evil Arizonians?

I mean come on Yo if you are going to believe in something than really believe in it.

Lets see him put his money where his mouth is.

"It's a joke. It's all a joke.

by WSB Chris on Jul 13, 2010 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Trade stuff

via “BrewerNation” on Twitter:

“Heard this: #Brewers/#Rays negotiating names 2 B involved in possible deal. Source indicates Matt Sweeney & either Wade Davis or Matt Moore.”

“Follow up to previous post: Told #Rays prefer to move Davis but #Brewers prefer Moore.”

I’m not sure how credible that is though.

Ryan Braun: He loves it.

by SRB on Jul 13, 2010 4:45 PM CDT reply actions  

Christ.

All that effort today for this:

@haudricourt: Brewers RHP Yovani Gallardo says he wasn’t quoted properly Monday and won’t necessarily boycott 2011 ASG in AZ if selected.

SRS BSNS

by Rubie Q on Jul 13, 2010 4:47 PM CDT reply actions  

No

no one knows what he really meant. All that happens was he was asked a leading question, and answered, then realized he was baited, and recanted. You can’t claim to know what he means.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 14, 2010 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

HA!

Well, good talk, everybody.

http://www.mlbsoup.com

by tcyoung on Jul 14, 2010 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

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