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Around SBN: Four TCU Football Players Among 17 Arrested In Drug Ring

Wednesday's Frosty Mug

Ryan Braun in flight, a split second before he hit the ground and bent his wrist the wrong way.

Some things to read while shopping for cows.

Today's biggest news is, once again, something that's not going to happen. Doug Melvin told Tom Haudricourt yesterday that Ken Macha will not be fired today, despite the fact that 52% of voters in this week's BCB Tracking Poll think he should be. Here's the money quote:

"I'm not a big believer in interim managers," said Melvin, reached at his office at Miller Park. "If things get to the point where you see no fight in the players, that's different."

I guess it's possible for a team to look more lifeless than the Brewers did against the Giants last week, but I'd have to see it to believe it.

At least the Brewers gave us a chance to go to bed early: Ryan Braun and Corey Hart were both out of last night's All Star game in the bottom of the fifth inning, and combined to go 0-for-4 with three strikeouts and a double play. Braun made a great diving play in the field, although he risked breaking his wrist while doing so.

Other notes from the game:

Yovani Gallardo's comments about the 2011 All Star Game generated a fair amount of discussion in the comments of yesterday's Mug, and it turns out it may all have been for naught: Gallardo now says he "wasn't quoted properly" and doesn't actually intend to boycott the game if selected. Bud Selig seemed unwilling to consider moving the game in his lunch with reporters yesterday.

By the way, Selig is still saying he intends to retire following the 2012 season, but his wife doesn't believe it.

Speaking of Gallardo, Dave Cameron of FanGraphs ranked him 41st in his annual look at player trade values.

On the trade front, you can add Howie Magner of Milwaukee Magazine to the list of proponents for a possible deal involving Corey Hart or Prince Fielder. Magner also noted a rumor suggesting the Rays might be close to a deal, and could be offering AA righty Matt Sweeney and either MLB starter Wade Davis or high-A lefty Matt Moore. Baseball Brew has a look at what the Rays might be willing to give up.

Apparently Doug Melvin told Giants GM Brian Sabean that he would only pull the trigger on a Hart deal if Madison Bumgarner or Jonathan Sanchez were involved, and the Giants appear unwilling to make that move. Lumping those two pitchers together seems weird to me: demanding Bumgarner or Sanchez is like walking into a car dealership and demanding either a new Corvette or a 2003 Toyota Camry. Tim Dierkes of MLB Trade Rumors says the Giants, Rays and Padres are all likely interested in Hart, but none might be willing to overpay. Rob Neyer says the Giants might not be a good trade partner for the Brewers.

Hart, by the way, used a Rock Bat in the Home Run DerbyJerry Crasnick suggested Hart might be suffering from a "post Derby hangover" after watching his swings against Andy Pettitte.

Jack Moore of Disciples of Uecker was the latest to weigh in on the Brewers' situation with Fielder, saying "the chances of the team being completely hamstrung by a long-term deal for Fielder just make it too risky."

Jack had better be careful or he'll get a phone call from Scott Boras. Apparently Boras called Tom Haudricourt to complain about a blog post about Fielder's body type and conditioning.

If the Brewers do, in fact, trade Hart, Fielder or anyone else for prospects, then you might have a use for this new Prospect Surplus Value calculation at Beyond the Box Score. And, of course, you should also pick up a copy of the Brew Crew Ball Trade Deadline Primer to keep handy.

If the Brewers are going to trade Hart they'd better do it soon, before pitchers start pitching him low and away again. Beyond the Box Score notes that Hart is one of baseball's best hitters against pitches on the upper and inner thirds of the plate.

In the minors:

On power rankings: SB Nation has the Brewers at #21, down one spot. 

Here's a cool memory from All Star Games past: The Sports Illustrated Vault has this photo of Prince and Cecil Fielder together before the 1993 game. (h/t Aaron Gleeman)

If you weren't around yesterday, you might have missed a couple of pretty cool features: TheJay has a look at the best performances in Brewer All Star history and Fatter than Joey has part 1 of the history of Brewers on the All Star ballot. Follow the links or scroll down and take a look, if you haven't yet.

No transactions to report today.

The Brewers still haven't reached a deal with their first round pick, Dylan Covey. On the other end of the spectrum we have the White Sox and Chris Sale: Sale, the #13 overall pick, has already been promoted to AAA and could be in the big leagues in August.

Meanwhile, the Pirates continue to make headlines with international signings. The team that signed the first players from India and South Africa has now added 16 year old Aleksey Lukashevich, the first player ever signed out of Belarus.

In former Brewer notes: It's possible the most surprising season by a former Brewer is taking place in Baltimore, where Corey Patterson is hitting .289/.335/.423 in 50 games as an Oriole, posting an OPS+ over 100 for the first time since 2003. Camden Crazies wonders if his performance is for real.

Here's a long running saga that might be nearing its conclusion: The city of Naples, Florida is withdrawing its offer to become the spring training home of the Cubs. It appears the Cubs will remain in the Cactus League and Mesa.

Here's one of the stranger minor league All Star Game stories you'll hear: Diamondbacks prospect Josh Collmenter was the winning pitcher for the North Division of the Southern League in their All Star Game, despite the fact that his team plays in the South Division. The North had run out of pitchers, so they borrowed Collmenter from the other side.

The Home Run Derby has jumped the shark. It's long, drawn out and needs an overhaul to move it along. Or, they could just take Larry Stone's idea and put Ichiro in it. I'd watch that.

George Steinbrenner continues to be the talk of the baseball world this week as figures from all over the game pay their respects. Adam McCalvy has quotes from Mark Attanasio and Willie Randolph about the longtime Yankee owner.

On this day in 1999, three workers were killed when a 480-foot crane carrying a portion of Miller Park's retractable roof collapsed. The accident delayed Miller Park's opening by a year.

Happy birthday to:

Now, if you'll excuse me, my carpool is leaving.

Drink up.

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When I saw Braun dive...

I started think, “Crap…”

Then I saw him land and thought, “CRRAAAP!”

but he’s okay…

Goooooo-mez!

by Drew C on Jul 14, 2010 9:06 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

HR derby

i certainly don’t enjoy watching the HR derby, but a friend of mine attended it a couple years ago and thought it was fun as heck. i think the best ways to fix the derby are: (a) to get more “names” in it (too many skip fearing it would mess up their swings); (b) nintendo wii the thing. in wii sports, you get 10 pitches and the estimate total distance. i think someone tweeted that earlier this week and it makes sense to me. yes, there would be some estimation, but whatever. and if you’re really worried about the pitcher not throwing it in the same spot to all the batters, then (i) it’s the batter’s fault for not choosing a better BP pitcher; or (ii) just put in a pitching machine.

does anyone know how the ratings are trending? or did anyone see the ESPN 3D broadcast? i’d be curious as to whether that was interesting (i assume they used different camera angles).

by Capt Science on Jul 14, 2010 9:35 AM CDT reply actions  

Overhaul

I’m not sure how to get the big names into the HR derby. I guess they could have the fans vote on the participants, but I doubt that would motivate them any more to participate. Any one know if they get paid for participating?

How long it takes is probably the biggest issue. Some ideas to help speed it along…

1. Limiting pitches. 10 pitches seems a bit too little… I think 20 would be about right, so that hitters could take a few.
2. One round.

If that’s still too long, you could limit the number of participants.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Jul 14, 2010 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Eliminate Chris Berman

And I might watch.

Probably not though.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Jul 14, 2010 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

The power button is just so much easier to use when the event is a 3+ hour long batting practice.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Jul 14, 2010 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Amen I just skipped it entirely

In this day and age of you tube and ESPN you can spend 10 minutes and see everything that is worth seeing

"It's a joke. It's all a joke.

by WSB Chris on Jul 14, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

the HR Derby is actually on the radio

I was surprised by that too, but I was listening to it on my way home from work, just to hear what Corey Hart was doing.

by morineko on Jul 14, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think a pitch count would be difficult to put in place, because hitters will want to be able to reject pitches.

But if each round lasted for 10 swings instead of 10 outs, I think the whole thing would be over in an hour and a half.

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Jul 14, 2010 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

possible

but you’d probably have a swing-off a bunch of the time.

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 14, 2010 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

From what I have heard

Ichiro hits tape measure shots in batting practice.

But his philosophy and style of play considers HR’s to be less important than the style of play he chooses to use. I’ve heard that if he wanted to use a power stroke, he could be a 25 HR guy, but he chooses to be a leadoff hitter who slaps the ball instead.

by backtocali on Jul 14, 2010 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah.

He says he could hit for power, but he wouldn’t get on base nearly as much.

by NoahJ on Jul 14, 2010 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't understand why Ichiro in the Derby would be so compelling

A good hitter hitting the ball a different way than he does in games. Woo hoo. Maybe there can be a fat guy stolen base contest at the same time.

Of course, I don’t think anything about the Derby is compelling, so whatever.

Eagerly awaiting SBN Madison.

by TheJay on Jul 14, 2010 9:56 AM CDT reply actions   2 recs

Come on, it's like Rudy!

BTW, I’d watch the fat guy stolen base contest.

http://www.mlbsoup.com

by tcyoung on Jul 14, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Awesome

The contestants would be Fielder, Sandoval, Bengie Molina, Ortiz and Howard.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Jul 14, 2010 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

I've always heard he could hit 30+ homeruns if he wanted to

but, instead chose for a better average. I’d like to watch him to get any sort of glimpse into if that is true.

I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful

by Michael M on Jul 14, 2010 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ooops

Should have read further on the posts…..see above…

by backtocali on Jul 14, 2010 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Reanimated Ty Cobb

Ichiro can resurrect people.

Ryan Braun: He loves it.

by SRB on Jul 14, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes.

He knows the shame from denying one’s weaknesses and disrespecting one’s elders is far worse than the dishonor from being bested.

Brewers Baseball and other assorted nonsense (mostly the assorted nonsense) at my blog, What's a Tararrel?

by Lefti on Jul 14, 2010 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

He'd be cowering in fear, as Ichiro would whip out his katana

(dammit, can’t find the p-shop image of samari ichiro. did image search for ichiro samari, katana, sword, ninja)

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 14, 2010 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Odd... I had no problems finding that pic the other day, but now... nothing.

Best I could find… Jedi Ichiro

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Jul 15, 2010 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I want to see a Pitcher Home Run Derby

Hitting them, not giving them up (giving them up, that’s called the 2009-10 Brewers pitching staff)

by morineko on Jul 14, 2010 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

You might live in Arizona if...

your first thought of a pitcher with initials BK is Byung-Hyun Kim. And he’s better at the giving them up contest.

Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.

by Yar Nivek on Jul 14, 2010 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

…you may have also paid too much attention to the 2001 Diamondbacks. If you’re me. (that was my first thought, too.)

by morineko on Jul 14, 2010 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

I like the fat guy stolen base contest

Let’s make this happen!

What about a skills competition, though? I’ve never understood why there wasn’t something like the NFL does.

Pitcher accuracy. Given them different locations with difference size openings and make them hit their spots. They could even have it run concurrent with the HR Derby if they wanted.

Batting skill. Hit to all fields with large paper targets for scoring points.

Base stealing. They would get a drag racing style countdown and steal 2nd, then 3rd and then home.

I know I’d watch some of those whereas the HR derby gets very old, very quickly.

by ecocd on Jul 14, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

I like the idea.

Maybe they could have indicator of when to hit the cut-off man, instead. Some fielders seem to have an issue with that.

by ecocd on Jul 14, 2010 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pirates international signings

Do need to correct on the South African signings—they signed the first black South African players, but the Royals had several white guys in the organization earlier in the decade. Apparently Allard Baird was big on unusual international signings at the time….

by morineko on Jul 14, 2010 10:22 AM CDT reply actions  

European prospects

The Twins just assigned a LHP from Russia to the Beloit Snappers.

Eagerly awaiting SBN Madison.

by TheJay on Jul 14, 2010 10:51 AM CDT reply actions  

Kip Wells

is a Duck.

No, it’s not Brewer related, and it’s barely baseball related, but it is hilarious, and that’s all that matters.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 14, 2010 10:51 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Trade! Woo! Oh, not us.
BLUE JAYS have acquired ESCOBAR and JO-JO REYES from Braves in exchange for ALEX GONZALEZ, TIM COLLINS & INF TYLER PASTRONICKY.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 14, 2010 11:05 AM CDT reply actions  

Alex Gonzalez is still in the majors?

[checks]

Holy crap, Alex Gonzalez has 17 home runs?

Eagerly awaiting SBN Madison.

by TheJay on Jul 14, 2010 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Didn't he hit like 16 in the first week and 1 since then?

Dumb trade by the Braves, if you ask me.

Ryan Braun: He loves it.

by SRB on Jul 14, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oof

At least he is citing a blog that has more credibility than his own.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Jul 14, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Anything I say will sound only as good as you want to believe it is, but I know someone that works for the league office.—writer of the blog piece on Hart to TB rumor

If true, this would seem to indicate a deal will soon be announced.

E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).

by Jordan M on Jul 14, 2010 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

he knows someone in the league office

that doesn’t mean that that someone is on speaking terms with him, nor does it mean they saw anything that relates to a trade with Hart.

also, I know a guy that was a design lead on Windows 7. And someone else who was a project lead with Maddon 2K10. Doesn’t mean I had the inside scoop on either app.

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 14, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Is Rambling Al a church goer?

What happens if this trade does go through? Does Big Al deserve an apology?

by backtocali on Jul 14, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

He would

After he apologizes for all the times that he slammed people who would eventually turn out to be right. That would take a while.

Heck, if he just admits that Lucroy has a higher ceiling than career backup we might be even.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Jul 14, 2010 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

So Windows 7 was your idea?

Eagerly awaiting SBN Madison.

by TheJay on Jul 14, 2010 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

fortunately not

but yeah, may have been Ben’s idea.

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 14, 2010 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

We don't even know which league office

Maybe he knows the janitor in Laurel Prieb’s west coast fiefdom.

Eagerly awaiting SBN Madison.

by TheJay on Jul 14, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

What's worse?

AW citing BR, or BR citing AW?

http://www.mlbsoup.com

by tcyoung on Jul 14, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Melvins dealings with the Giants

My initial thoughts on the Hart for either Bumgarner or Sanchez deals occuring mad me dislike DM even more than I already do. Thinking that he had no idea what Hart is really worth, nor what those players were worth.

I ran some Surplus value calculations today and came up with:

Hart $15 million
Sanchez $17 million
Bumgarner $14 to $70 million, coming to a “fair” value of about $36 million, given that although he is no longer a prospect, he does still have some of that unknown value to him, and that he seems to be proving himself in the major leagues. If he were to continue on to a 2.8 WAR type of season this year, his value is probably coser to a $50m give or take upside.

So Sanchez for Hart straight up makes sense, Brewers might have had to throw in a prospect like Josh Butler or Nick Bucci to even it out for the Giants.

But Hart for Bumgarner would be highly unbalanced. the only way it works would be if the Giants still considered him a prospect and were not sold on his accomplishments with the big league club so far, or if they were willing to over pay for Hart by about double the worth.For it to be an even trade, given Bumgarners proof so far it would probably have to be Hart and Brett Lawrie for Bumgarner for a low level prospect.

by backtocali on Jul 14, 2010 11:59 AM CDT reply actions  

I recognize that

But you cant really quantify that “pressing need”. I just saw someone doing work on a marginal win value, I suppose if you determined the difference in value of a win this year for SF vs MIL, then you could say Hart for Sanchez is a good deal straight up.

The Giants probably need 44 more wins this year for a playoff spot. So I guess that that difference in marginal win value times 44 would have to be equal to about $21 million dollars for the Giants to be willing to cough up Madison Bumgarner for Corey Hart straight up.

by backtocali on Jul 14, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

And they had to use Madison Bumgarner as a pinch hitter. When you’re expecting offense out of pitchers (and, I’d like to note re the Runzler surprise plate appearance, out of relievers) there is trouble.

by morineko on Jul 14, 2010 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's all about risk evaluation

Sanchez is pretty much a known quantity, and his surplus value is similar to Hart’s, but Bumgarner comes with a lot of risk, as evidenced by you having him valued from $14 MM to $70 MM. His average value is absolutely significantly higher, but it needs to be to compensate for the added risk; if you believe the loss of fastball velocity was just a flukey thing, and he’s every bit the prospect he ever was, then it’s not worth it for the Giants. I’ll assume Melvin is viewing him as a chancy prospect, and wants a discount in return. Granted, you can say that even if you take that into account, he’s still worth more than Hart, but it all depends on how much risk you’re willing to take on. If you have big worries about Bumgarner’s upside, and you’re fairly risk-averse, thinking he’s worth Corey Hart makes some sense.

Brewers Baseball and other assorted nonsense (mostly the assorted nonsense) at my blog, What's a Tararrel?

by Lefti on Jul 14, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Small Sample Size

Even with the velocity drop, he is on pace for a 2.8 WAR season. Yes it is only after 4 starts, but even a 2 WAR season as a rookie is pretty promising.

by backtocali on Jul 14, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

It is

I’m not saying I’m completely writing him off, just that considering the velocity loss, it’s reasonable to view him as even more of a risk than most prospects.

Brewers Baseball and other assorted nonsense (mostly the assorted nonsense) at my blog, What's a Tararrel?

by Lefti on Jul 14, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

DM tried to get Bumgarner, wasn't able to and is now looking at other teams to trade with

I don’t see how this paints DM in a negative light. Its not his job to make sure the trade is fair and surplus values match up.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Jul 14, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

also keep in mind we have no context here

while my first reaction was “really, doug?”, i don’t know if he said “let’s agree on the principals being corey and madison, and then we can talk equalizers”. maybe it was corey plus stuff for madison. who knows? i’m at least encouraged by the fact he’s trying to trade bats for arms.

it’s the little things, really… :/

by Capt Science on Jul 14, 2010 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right.

I’d be upset if Melvin pulled a J.J. Redux: asked the Giants for Bumgarner, was rebuffed, asked for Sanchez, was rebuffed, then asked for a middle reliever and did the trade without bothering to inquire with other teams.

SRS BSNS

by Rubie Q on Jul 14, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Osiris Matos

He’ll bring the power of the dead!

Eagerly awaiting SBN Madison.

by TheJay on Jul 14, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

o noz

Melvin would do this. I really hope that Todd Wellemeyer doesn’t come off the DL until August 1. ;)

by morineko on Jul 14, 2010 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Missing sentence

I came to the conclusion that those ideas werent so bad. I’m still not a Doug Melvin fan, but as Rubie mentions, he does that that reputation for giving one of his guys way too much value.

And the clock is ticking on Fielder too, to the point that he probably has about 6 months to deal him and get the best return he can for the long term health of the team. But if he only accepts a mega deal at this point for Fielder, he may be left holding the bag at the end of next year.

by backtocali on Jul 14, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

And that bag is likely to be a tall brown one

With some stubble and a notable slurring of his words.

by ecocd on Jul 14, 2010 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Better than the alternative

Which would be the kind of bag teenagers are known to light on fire and throw onto a grumpy old man’s porch.

by backtocali on Jul 14, 2010 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is it just me or does Dave Cameron not like the Brewers?

Gallardo, one of the top starters in the game signed to a long team-friendly contract, is only the 41st best trade value in the majors? Guess there’s a big liability on freak Reed Johnson attacks.

Ryan Braun: He loves it.

by SRB on Jul 14, 2010 12:59 PM CDT reply actions  

Maybe he was looking at more than this season

before this season, it’d be hard to consider him one of the top starters in the game.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 14, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Except he's missed 0 starts in his career other than the Reed Johnson attack

And is considered the most durable starter on the Brewers.

Ryan Braun: He loves it.

by SRB on Jul 14, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Except for his last one.

And plenty last september.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 14, 2010 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Precautionary

If the Brewers were playing for anything he probably could have made those.

Ryan Braun: He loves it.

by SRB on Jul 14, 2010 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Fragility"?

Gallardo is Italian?

Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.

by Yar Nivek on Jul 14, 2010 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

He likes the Brewers, and Melvin a lot

Was probably more optimistic before the season than most people on this blog were.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/organizational-rankings-12-milwaukee/

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Jul 14, 2010 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sure there's a higher chance of re-injury just because it was torn previously

and the sample size is awfully small (431.2 IP). That being said, he has looked every bit the developing ace this year and has shown marked improvement

by dtmeyers on Jul 14, 2010 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

He’s a developing ace (not an ace yet), and is improving. He’s not a top starter in the game yet, but he’s close.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 14, 2010 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I consider "ace" to be top 10 in baseball.

Not just the best pitcher on every team.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 14, 2010 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Disagree

Top 20, yes. Top 10… maybe. Top 5, no way. no way.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 14, 2010 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

FIP: #5
K/9: #5

Ryan Braun: He loves it.

by SRB on Jul 14, 2010 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not what I meant

you picked 2 that make him look good. What’s his BB/9 rank? BB/K?

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 14, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that was my point

Insert rolling eye picture thingy here.

Not saying he’s not good, I’m saying he’s not top 5. Here’s a small sample of pitchers that are better than Gallardo:

Adam Wainwright
Roy Halladay
Zack Greinke
Felix Hernandez
Tim Lincecum
Josh Johnson
Chris Carpenter
Ubaldo Jimenez
Cliff Lee
CC Sabathia
Dan Haren
Justin Verlander

Please, disagree with me. This isn’t talking about age, potential, or anything, this is right now, where you said Gallardo was Top 5 in baseball.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 14, 2010 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here is a list of pitchers with a better FIP:

Francisco Liriano
Josh Johnson
Cliff Lee
Roy Halladay

Ryan Braun: He loves it.

by SRB on Jul 14, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

here's the list with better xFIP

Halladay
Liriano
Johnson
Lincecum
Wainwright
Weaver
Lee
Hernandez
Haren

by dtmeyers on Jul 14, 2010 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

and the list with more WAR this year

includes Lester, Verlander, and Jimenez also

by dtmeyers on Jul 14, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think you can ignore IP per start

No doubt Yo has the stuff to be an ace. I think he moves up the ladder once he develops the ability to consistently go deep into games (averaging a little over 6 IP per start this year).

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Jul 14, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yes.

I wrote about it here

Yovani’s first 10 starts: 18.12 Pitches/IP; he averaged 5.9 IP per Start, and only lasted 7 or more Innings just two times.

Yovani’s last 7 starts: 15.98 Pitches/IP, he averages 7.1 IP per Start, and lasted 7 or more innings 4 times.

There is a very pronounced improvement there. Not yet an ace, but well on his way.

http://www.mlbsoup.com

by tcyoung on Jul 14, 2010 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fair enough

I prefer FIP to xFIP, but I guess I wouldn’t argue with Gallardo being “just” a top 10 starter in the majors this season. Back to the original point: he’s an ace.

Ryan Braun: He loves it.

by SRB on Jul 14, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Depends on your definition of "ace"

sure you can call him an ace. I won’t, not quite yet. By the end of the year, possibly, and definitely, if his current trend continues. I hope so.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 14, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Who is doing that?

I’m just not assigning him the admittedly arbitrary tag of “ace,” quite yet. Soon, hopefully, as stated earlier.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 14, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Totally with you here.

Until he can control his pitch counts and last 7+ Innings on a consistent basis, he’s not an ace.

I DO think, however, we’re watching him become an ace before our eyes.

http://www.mlbsoup.com

by tcyoung on Jul 14, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here's the reason I refuse to call him an Ace if he can't pitch more than 6 innings.

A pitcher can only play 1 game every 5 days. But if he only goes 4, 5 or 6 innings, no matter how well he pitched, the team is forced to start burning the bullpen. Now, some of your best relievers may not be available the next day or the day after. So, despite only pitching 1 day, he’s hurt his team’s chances to win for the next day or two.

If he can go 7,8,9 innings, he’s giving those relievers a rest, and helping his team win for 3 days.

http://www.mlbsoup.com

by tcyoung on Jul 14, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

yes

and rec

Get well soon Ueck

by molitorfan on Jul 14, 2010 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

1) He already averages more than 6.0 IP/GS
2) He’s second in the majors in complete game shutouts
3) He’s been one of the ten most valuable all-around pitchers in baseball based on WAR (including batting) and one of the five most valuable in the NL (a.k.a. the only league with real pitchers) despite not going deep into games.
4) I don’t think the intangible benefit of not going to the bullpen an inning earlier has much of an impact.

Gallardo deserves to be called an ace. I’m not sure why I need to convince Brewers fans of that.

Ryan Braun: He loves it.

by SRB on Jul 14, 2010 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Idk

Maybe people have different opinions.

Who knows, it’s happened before.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 14, 2010 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also

I think he needs to average 7 IP/GS to be a true ace, though I’ll give you that he doesn’t have total control over that.

I will also give you that he’s pitching like an ace this year. A half a season does not an ace make. He was barely above average last year, so… let me see a little more before I put an arbitrary label on you.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 14, 2010 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I am just glad the NL won

One less pain in the ass stat for the talking heads at the East Coast Media Cabal to bring up in the run up to the WS

Now we will here how the NL has home field for the first time in forever over and over again.

"It's a joke. It's all a joke.

by WSB Chris on Jul 14, 2010 2:25 PM CDT reply actions  

Related question...

Is this year the first year that they let the players wear their team uniform instead of All-Star uniforms?

Would Votto have congratulated him if they were both wearing National League uniforms?

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Jul 14, 2010 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

As I recall, not in the game.

They wear NL and AL stuff for the Home Run Derby and Batting Practice, but for the AS game, I recall them always having their team uniform (I assume for comfort and familiarity purposes).

Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.

by Yar Nivek on Jul 14, 2010 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're right...

I thought they used to wear NL/AL uniforms during the game, but looking back at old photos from previous games it looks like they’ve usually worn their regular uniforms.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Jul 15, 2010 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Apologies if this has already been pointed out...

… and I know you youngins don’t like references to 1982, but the Brewers players were playing hard under Buck Rodgers. They just didn’t like playing for him or the way he ran the clubhouse. Harvey Kuenn was declared an interim manager when Rodgers was fired after a 23-24 start. Kuenn kept that title all the way through 1982 while the team put up a 72-43 record over the remainder of the season.

So, by saying that he wouldn’t fire a manager and name an interim manager unless the players quit (or his boss made him; see 2008), he’s essentially saying he wouldn’t have canned Rodgers and turned the team over to Kuenn in 1982.

Now excuse me. There’s a kid in my yard….

What begins in fear usually ends in folly.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 14, 2010 5:55 PM CDT reply actions  

Internal.

What begins in fear usually ends in folly.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 15, 2010 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Other interesting facts about Kuenn with the Brewers

Served as hitting coach for the Brewers from 1971-1982.

Added to the active roster during the 1971 season.

Named interim manager in 1975 for the last two games of the season.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Jul 15, 2010 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

"I'm not a big believer in interim managers,"

I hate Melvin and I hate his bullshit logic. “If things get to the point where you see no fight in the players, that’s different.” How the hell is an interim manager any different than a lame duck manager?? Screw you, Melvin. You pulled the plug on the season in May, and if the players are showing any fight at all it’s because of who they are, not who he is.

by nullacct on Jul 14, 2010 6:35 PM CDT reply actions  

So, the players suck.

Because they’re not showing any fight.

Maybe we need better players.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 14, 2010 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Luis Cruz is in, playing SS.

that’s ALL-STAR Luis Cruz.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 14, 2010 7:47 PM CDT reply actions  

Enters game

PCL quickly goes from up 1-0 to down 2-1,

Correlation <> Causation.

Shruggity.

by Mykenk on Jul 14, 2010 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

If he was in AA

He’d be on an All Star team every day.

Eagerly awaiting SBN Madison.

by TheJay on Jul 14, 2010 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

intramural softball rules

1) the first baseman does not stand 6 inches from first base
2) the second baseman does not stand 2 feet from second – directly behind it
3) the center fielder shall not call “you’ve GOT IT!!!!!” when I’m about to pick up the ball

due to the first two rule violations, I ended up playing short right field/deep 2nd base. Because, you know, I don’t have any place I’d rather play.

also, no one knows how to play cut-off. So, I had to heave the ball from 450 feet away (because, you know, the other outfielders can’t run to the ball) to home plate. my arm ain’t that good…never was. the second baseperson didn’t even FACE me, much less run out to receive the ball once the runner was definitely past second.

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 14, 2010 9:43 PM CDT reply actions  

Come on...

it’s intramural softball.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Jul 15, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

i know

i was annoyed. not beside myself in anger.

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 15, 2010 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

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