Some final thoughts on the Fielder/Venters incident tonight
by Kyle Lobner on Jul 17, 2010 10:16 PM CDT
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PrintSo, we're roughly an hour removed from the end of tonight's game, but I still can't get tonight's Prince Fielder HBP out of my head.
There's a point to which I can understand what happened and the motivation behind it. If the Braves don't like the way Fielder reacted to his home run tonight, that's their prerogative. Fielder has a violent swing and it led to a giant followthrough on his home run. I'm not bothered by it, but I can see how they would be.
With that said, even if you accept the premise that Fielder had committed some form of offense against the Braves, and even if you accept the premise that a retaliatory plunk was warranted, there are three things here I have a problem with:
- The location. I realize Jonny Venters wasn't throwing full speed when his first pitch went over Prince Fielder's head. And I don't care. That 84 mph pitch could still do very serious damage if it had made contact. And the pitch that hit Fielder in the back was a 94 mph fastball. When you're throwing that hard above the waist, you're not retaliating anymore. You're headhunting.
- The timing. This is the second straight day Fielder has been hit. Last night it happened immediately after a Braun home run, and tonight it happened the next time Fielder came to the plate after hitting one. And, as mentioned above, Venters missed Fielder with his first pitch before hitting him with the second.
- The reaction. Bobby Cox coming out to argue the ejection was one of the more classless things I've seen a manager do in some time. Venters was ejected for hitting a batter with a pitch immediately after being warned for throwing over a batter's head. The rules clearly state you can't do that. Venters did it anyway. If you're going to do that, you have to be prepared to accept the consequences.
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Venters, yes. Cox, no. Bobby Cox is delightfully senile. There is no way he knew about the warning at his age. In fact, I would be shocked if he was arguing why they just tossed Tom Glavine out of the game.
PensBurgh penalty - Lavender - 2 Minutes for Deking a Duper Deke That Made a Duper Duck.
by Lavender on Jul 17, 2010 10:25 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Is the is same Bobbie Cox that managed to win only one WS
While having the best team in baseball for over a decade.
Yeah Bobby is such a great manager I will never understand why the people in Atlanta worship that man give those teams to La Russa or Torre and you would have had a dynasty.
"It's a joke. It's all a joke.
how many super bowls did Favre win for your Packers
yep, same number.
Favre was the best quarterback in the league
On a team that was often otherwise terrible. See: Barry Sanders
Bad analogy is bad.
K, thanks for stopping by.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Jul 18, 2010 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I voted just Venters
I would be concerned about taking action against a manager under tha assumption that he ordered a pitcher to throw at someone. It was stupid for Cox to question it, but it wasn’t as though he was kicking dirt or throwing bases. That said, Venters can inappropriate for BCB. Twice.
The reason
A manager is ejected after warnings have been issued is that it is assumed that a major league pitcher would not miss so badly on two consecutive pitches. I think it’s safe to assume that Cox ordered it, in which case he needs a break.
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
I was thinking
that the pitcher may just decide on his own.
by dickie_thon on Jul 17, 2010 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions
inappropriate for BCB?
does that involve your screen name and “BANGBANG”?
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 18, 2010 6:48 AM CDT up reply actions
I didn't get to see it
But could Cox have been arguing in order to give his pitcher more time to warm up?
I'm relatively sure that, in that situation, the new pitcher gets as long as he needs.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Jul 17, 2010 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Macha wants an investigation
"I don’t know what’s going on there," Brewers manager Ken Macha said. "Bob Watson [Major League Baseball vice president of rules and on-field operations] ought to take a look at it. Braun hits a home run, they drill him. He hits a home run, his next at-bat they drill him. That’s evidence enough for me for some guys to get suspended for quite a bit.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Jul 17, 2010 10:37 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, that quote was televised on the FSWI postgame show too.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Jul 17, 2010 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions
This is somewhat frustrating
Does Macha actually think anything significant will happen? As in, does he think that Cox being suspended in any way helps the Brewers or prevents the Braves from throwing at people in the future. This is a situation in which you have to take justice in your own hands.
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
Disagree.
What do you want them to do, throw at their players tomorrow? That’s dumb, all that gets is OUR players suspended.
Shruggity.
by Mykenk on Jul 17, 2010 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You can say that every time.
The Brewers never retaliated for Mota hitting Fielder last year. Teams got the message and the Brewers lead the league in HBP this year. There’s a time to send a message.
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
Yeah.
Beat them tomorrow, and continue to take our free bases.
Shruggity.
by Mykenk on Jul 17, 2010 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Probably the best approach...
… unless the lack of retaliation is becoming a problem in the clubhouse. If it’s not, then I completely agree.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Hell,
it seems to get our players fired up, which is more than we can say for our manager. I say keep plunking us, bitches, let’s see what happens.
Shruggity.
by Mykenk on Jul 17, 2010 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Take a look at what Fielder did when he went into second...
… That suggests that if there’s no retaliation, he’ll take matters into his own hands, and potentially get himself ejected, hurt or suspended. That’s why I’m concerned the absence of retaliation is a problem.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's all fine
Until Braun gets hit in the elbow again
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
I still want to know
what benefit the brewers get from intentionally throwing at whoever the braves best hitter is
Shruggity.
by Mykenk on Jul 17, 2010 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Braun not getting hit in the elbow again
Or, more accurately, a decreased likelihood that one of our best hitters is injured from an intentional HBP
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
how would us hitting a brave stop other teams from throwing at us?
Because they know we’ll retaliate? that doesn’t really make sense. It’s not like the reason they’re throwing at us now is because we don’t retaliate, it’s because they’ve got some sense that they’ve been shown up, when in reality, it’s just because they live in the south, and their minds are warped from it being too damn hot all the time.
Shruggity.
Too bad Cappy's starting against the Pirates.
Otherwise he’d be an excellent candidate. It’s not like Macha’s aware he’s on the roster most days.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions
The swing
If the Braves (or their fans) are complaining over Prince’s swing, then they’re just looking for something to worry about. Yes, it was a big, emphatic swing, but his body language on the swing was completely in line with the energy he put into the uppercut. When he decided to swing that big, there was nothing he could do about his body. In short, he swung so hard he lost his balance, and there was only one thing to do.
It’s no different then when a player hangs on the rim after a dunk in order to regain his balance. There’s a penalty for hanging on the rim for no reason, but an unbalanced guy has plenty of reason to do it and will never get called for it.
After the swing, Prince was nothing but respectful when running. He got out of the box fast, and didn’t do any fancy stomp on the plate when he got around. The trot itself was 22.96 seconds, which isn’t slow at all (though it’s not fast either – it’s pretty average for Prince).
As I said, you have to be looking for something to complain about if you’re blaming Prince for that…
==
Check out Wezen-Ball.com
by lar on Jul 17, 2010 10:40 PM CDT reply actions 8 recs
The swing wasn't a problem
First: I’ve been following for about 6 months, this topic MADE me get a user name so I could comment.
Second: If anyone saw Prince’s double last night, the swing was exactly the same. It doesn’t seem like he’s show-boating, it just looks like he’s altered the swing a little since the break and these are the results. It looks awkward, but that’s what Prince is currently using.
by adavisrhin on Jul 17, 2010 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
When crap like this happens
It exposes the hypocritical lunacy of announcers, analysts and opposing players regularly implying that the Brewers “don’t play the game the right way.” The Braves hit Prince tonight (apparently) because he freaking swings too hard.
So that’s what it’s come to: Prince Fielder has a ridiculously hard, unorthodox swing, so someone throws a ball 93 miles an hour at him. And somehow Prince ends up the villain.
Prince showed incredible restraint not to retaliate for those two pitches. (Remember, Venters had thrown at Prince three pitches in a row going back to yesterday.) Let’s think about this rationally: Person A swung really hard with a long, weird-looking follow-through, and Person B threw a hard, round object 93 mph at Person A for the third time in two days. Who’s “playing the game the right way”?
No matter how the Brewers behave, they’re still going to be arbitrarily cast as cocky, unsportsmanlike bastards by all the people who collectively create baseball’s big metanarrative. If I was in that clubhouse, I’d almost be pushing for a WWF-style heel turn – if you’re going to get a reputation as a bunch of arrogant assholes, you might as well actually do something to deserve it. (It’s probably better that I’m not in that clubhouse.)
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 17, 2010 10:47 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
One correction
It was Hanson that hit Fielder yesterday, not Venters. Venters got Fielder to pop out on Thursday. I stand corrected…by, um, myself.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 17, 2010 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I was watching the Braves feed
They were puzzled over why Fielder would be thrown at at all, including showing footage of previous times that Fielder’s swing caused him to become off balance.
I didn't see Princes swing, so I can't comment on that.
But NOTHING warrants a fastball to the head. I’m 100% on your side here
by cubsfaninatl on Jul 17, 2010 10:50 PM CDT reply actions 7 recs
Thanks Cubs' fan
I’m glad fans of other teams are at least reasonable.
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
Basically, he gets corkscrewed
He’s got a pretty violent twist going, and it throws him off balance over the plate.
Then his back leg comes out from in back of the front one and he regains his balance with it.
It’s a horrible looking swing and I hope the kids on the playground aren’t copying it, but it seems to let him cope with being jammed all the time.
Rook's quote
“I was just trying to go right at him,” Venters said. “The first one was a breaking ball and it got away from me a little bit. The second pitch was a sinker and it just ran away from me. Unfortunately, it hit him. There was nothing intentional about it. It was a three-run game.”
Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.
Congratulations Venters...
…. now you’re a LYING douche-bag.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, he did say he was trying to go right at him...
Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.
by TheJay on Jul 17, 2010 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
By the way...
… if the pitch that hit Fielder was a sinker, then it was the worst sinker in the history of baseball. Either that, or Venters is 12 feet tall.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd love to see a Pitch F/X
On Venters’ sinkers this year, to see if he’s ever thrown anything close to that spot, or at that speed.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 17, 2010 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not all year
But these plots of the location of tonight’s two pitches are pretty amusing: http://bit.ly/bDbh6L
Off the charts!
Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.
Manager's quote
“We didn’t (intentionally) hit Fielder last night at all,” Cox said. "And we didn’t hit him tonight. At all. And that is the truth.
“I don’t blame Prince for being mad at all. But it’s not intentional.”
Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.
Now Cox admits to hitting Prince last night, but not tonight? Now…I am extremely biased here, but a pitcher should NEVER throw at a guy’s head. I mean, that could be a career-ender if it connects in the right spot. If you are mad at the guy for his on-field play, then strike him out, don’t try and end his career.
I have watched Prince’s home run a bunch of times tonight, and yes, his swing was a little wild, but he didn’t stare at the ball, he didn’t hang out at the plate. When he collected himself from the wild swing, he ran hard to first. Nothing wrong with that at all. I HATE all of this “Your guy hit my guy so now I have to hit your guy” B.S. Baseball needs to step in and do something so someone doesn’t really get hurt because of this. On that same note, don’t be too surprised if you see some fireworks in the matinée tomorrow.
by JohnnyO11 on Jul 17, 2010 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
that's not what cox said in the quote above
Cox doesn’t admit to intentionally hitting him either night.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 18, 2010 7:04 AM CDT up reply actions
by "we"
he meant himself and the interviewer.
also, he’s referring to Prince the musician.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 18, 2010 7:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Venters has been like that all season
Though Venters has pretty solid control, he has struggled, especially coming into games, with locking in from time to time. Fielder gets hit a lot and pitchers will continue to attempt to come into him and they should. The last thing you want is for him to extend his arms. It’s just the scouting report. If Venters HAD wanted to hit Fielder, he would have hit him with a fastball with the first pitch. He wouldn’t have thrown a breaking pitch with the first one.
Just because something seems fishy doesn’t mean it actually is. The warning did not need to get issued after the first pitch, but because it was, Venters had to be ejected. But he doesn’t deserve to be suspended. That’s fairly ridiculous, but then, the baseball punishment team is pretty ridiculous.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 17, 2010 11:07 PM CDT reply actions
If Venters didn't want to hit Fielder
He sure wouldn’t have thrown a way-inside fastball immediately after being warned.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 17, 2010 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, but didn't you hear?
That wasn’t a fastball. It was a sinker. He said so, and he wouldn’t lie.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Um...
A sinker is a fastball. Venters fastball is a 95 mph sinker that has been mega effective.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 17, 2010 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Sinker's also don't tend to be shoulder height, do they?
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you're missing the point
Well, not just this point, many points. TSSC wasn’t saying that, Venters said after the game that the pitch was a sinker, not a fastball.
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
by mnbrewer on Jul 17, 2010 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly.
Ventner’s use of the term is an attempt to obscure the fact that he threw a 95 mile per hour pitch into the back of player whose head he narrowly missed on the previous pitch.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions
And you're missing the point...
Sinkers are fastballs. Another name of them are…sinking fastballs. The old term used to be two-seamers. Regardless, Venters throws three pitches. Slider, change, and a fastball. But the fastball…is a sinker.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 17, 2010 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions
No one's disputing that notion.
Just commenting on Ventner’s choice of words in describing the pitch he drilled Fielder with. He’s trying to minimize by suggesting he was attempting to affect the movement of his pitch and it got away from him, when in fact he reared back and threw a straight line pitch into another players back one pitch after narrowly missing that player’s head.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Or...the more logical conclusion...
He never meant to hit Fielder in a three-run game and potentially put the game further out of reach for the Braves. His first pitched hanged. If he meant to hit Fielder and wanted to do damage, he wouldn’t have thrown a slow breaking pitch first, now would he? If he was head-hunting, which your overreaction suggests, he would have went with the heat. But he didn’t. He threw a hanger.
Rather than risk another hanger, he went to the sinker…the fastball…but again, missed his spot. Again, it happens. There was absolutely no reason to hit Fielder and the Braves have never been, at least under Cox, an organization that resorts to classless moves. You don’t seem in brawls and all of that. It seems reasonable to suggest that Venters had no intention to hit Fielder.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 17, 2010 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Why are you even over here?
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Jul 17, 2010 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
So you admit he doesn't belong in the big leagues
because if that was him trying, he’s gonna hurt a fan if he’s ever wild.
Shruggity.
by Mykenk on Jul 17, 2010 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Honestly...
… you can make that argument almost any time someone is accused of drilling a hitter intentionally. If the Braves had a 3 run lead instead of a deficit, you’d be over here saying “why would they want to give the Brewers base runners?” You’re applying logic to an illogical decision that we all know occurs. Sometimes managers and pitchers decide to drill batters, and more often than not, it’s not a smart, thoughtful or logical thing to do.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I wonder if Dave Ross has ever seen another pitcher miss his spot that badly
Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.
Well...
Dude caught some awful Reds teams. So…yeah.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 17, 2010 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually....
… another way to look at it is that he threw inside high and took something off in the hopes of avoiding causing a major injury. When it missed, he came with the heat slightly lower knowing that this time Fielder wouldn’t be able to get out of the way.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Really?
But he wants to drill Fielder because he is this hateful douchbag who has been told by his manager to get Fielder. Suddenly, he wants to put on kids gloves and then follows that up by trying to hurt Fielder?
You really can’t have it both ways.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 17, 2010 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure I can.
You can intend to hit a player without intending to put him in the hospital.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you're going for the head...
Which you have said he was…you are trying to put him into the hospital no matter how slow you try to throw it…right?
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 17, 2010 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know.
As Venter. He’s the d-bag who threw those pitches. But I’ve seen guys take one off the helmet and go to first instead of the hospital. So have you, I suspect.
But you’re the guy who says he’s wild. Maybe he was aiming for the back and it “got away with him”, so then he brought the heat knowing he wouldn’t miss.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Going high and in
Doesn’t necessarily mean aiming for the head. It usually means aiming for somewhere near the head, because to the hitter, it has pretty much the same effect.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 17, 2010 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Here's a question for you?
Why’d you create a new log in name to come over here and troll? Why not use the log in name you always use?
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Never signed up.
I don’t particularly like the Braves blog on sbnation. And I don’t believe I am trolling…I just don’t agree with you on this. But I have made my arguments. Whether you want to believe that maybe, sometimes a pitcher has trouble hitting his spots or not is up to you, I guess. Regardless, Venters doesn’t deserve a suspension. There’s just no proof he meant to hit Fielder.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 17, 2010 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions
"There's just no proof he meant to hit Fielder."
So if a guy denies something, it’s impossible to conclude reasonably they aren’t telling the truth? Circumstantial evidence is still evidence. And there’s plenty of that available.
So you don’t like the Braves blog on SBNation, never signed up for any other blog on SBNation, yet you hang around enough to just pop up here, create an account and defend Venters and Cox?
If I were going to buy a story like that, I probably would agree with you that there was no proof that Venters meant to hit Fielder.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Well...
This blog is linked from the Yahoo spots story. That’s how I got here.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 17, 2010 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions
That's a false choice argument.
It is possible to think that “maybe, sometimes a pitcher has trouble hitting his spots” AND that Venters was throwing at Fielder. It’s not an either/or situation. You can argue all you like, but get that weak rhetorical bullshit out of here, thanks.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions
we're not contending
that he was going after Fielder in the head with the second pitch.
“headhunting” is perhaps not quite the correct term. Hunting, maybe.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 18, 2010 7:12 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't understand your defense of this.
If this same series of events took place and it was Brewers pitcher I would either be for it or against it. I wouldn’t be in denial about whether or not it happened.
by Zorakathura on Jul 17, 2010 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's what I keep thinking.
If Braddock hit Heyward in the back an inning after he hit a home run and after Braddock had just thrown another high-and-in pitch on him, I simply cannot fathom that this guy would consider for one moment that it could have been unintentional.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 17, 2010 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Err, sorry...
Here’s the thing…you guys see Braddock…I don’t. I do see Venters and I know how he pitches and I know his demeanor. And to intentionally hit Fielder like he did makes no sense. I could see it possibly if he threw the sinker right at him right away. But not the way it went down.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 17, 2010 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions
It's the perfect defense.
I’m sorry officer. I didn’t mean to run over those 17 pedestrians. I’m just not a very good driver.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, he's really good.
But he has a few problems…which isn’t surprising since he’s a young pitcher. If he can consistently harness that slider to go with the sinker, he could be a closer. More likely, a solid relief guy with a fallback option as a LOOGY.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 17, 2010 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions
He'll also have to harness the sinker, apparently.
Unless we also have to watch out for the change.
by dickie_thon on Jul 17, 2010 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I think we should start using quotes around the word "sinker" when discussing this particular pitch.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Let's see...
Baseball America says he has “three plus pitches he uses for retaliatory plunkings”
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
"the Braves have never been, at least under Cox, an organization that resorts to classless moves."
I’ll let Wikipedia take this one:
“[Cox] holds the all-time record for ejections in Major League Baseball with 156, a record previously held by John McGraw.”
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 17, 2010 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I can also think of numerous bench-clearing incidents in the last few years involving the Braves
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
This is bullshit and you and I both know it
A major league pitcher does not miss with 2 pitches in a row that badly in. This is what teams do when they throw at people, Ned Yost did it a few years ago when throwing at Pujols when he was managing the Brewers.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Jul 18, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
High school pitchers don't ever miss that badly twice in a row.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
drunk people throwing at a dunk tank target don't miss that badly twice in a row
Too close for missiles, I’m switching to Ueck.
by theBrouhaha on Jul 18, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
I am very aware of this
TSSC is aware of this too. Ventner, it seems, is not.
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
pitchfx says 4 seam
I’m sure some camera angle has him gripping the ball or releasing it
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 18, 2010 7:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually...
He would follow the scouting report and try to continue to come inside rather than be a wimp and be too scared to come after the hitter. Truthfully, baseball coddles these guys so much. I’m not going to change my approach to bust him inside because the ump warns me never to come inside again.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 17, 2010 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Or he would just drill the guy as he was told to do.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Since Bobby Cox said so, apparently.
Because he’s so classy.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions
He tried to call TLR to confirm if it was classy.
Unfortunately he was actually calling the bullpen.
by Zorakathura on Jul 17, 2010 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions
He tried Pujols Himself first
But was told He was currently healing a small child of gout and could not be reached.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 17, 2010 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions
If he is THAT bad coming into games
He probably shouldn’t be in the majors.
Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.
by TheJay on Jul 17, 2010 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He probably shouldn't be in competitive baseball...
Missing that badly twice in a row gets people hurt. That’s when the high school coach says, “Hey, maybe we try you out in the outfield…”
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
Especially when you look at where the catcher was setting up
On the HBP – ankle-high and over the middle.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 18, 2010 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Somebody teach this kid some control before he kills somebody!
—Lou Brown
Steve
http://nohuddleoffense.blogspot.com
That's a pile of crap.
If he’s wild, he doesn’t put two pitches in virtually the exact same spot. The first was a bit higher than the second, and slower, but they were both shoulder high and a foot or two inside the batters box.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Braves pitchers sure seem to conveniently time their absurd "control problems" for AB against Braun/Fielder following HRs by one of the other...
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Jul 17, 2010 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
What an amazing coincidence.
This same strange control problem seems to happen to Jeff Karstens.
by Zorakathura on Jul 17, 2010 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Sample size.
I realize in today’s age of overanalyzing everything on the internet, two circumstances therefore makes an entire organizational philosophy…but really…it’s just two situations.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 17, 2010 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions
There’s an old saying…
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Jul 17, 2010 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
It doesn't have to be their organizational philosophy...
… just what they do against the Brewers in this series. Or this season.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Three times
Braun – hit by Hanson in May following his own homerun
Fielder – Hit by Hanson on Friday, following a Braun homerun
Fielder – Hit by Venters following his own homerun…
"The Milwaukee Brewers' line score is starting to resemble an international phone number" - Pittsburgh Pirates Radio during 20-0 shutout - 4-22-10
by MadtownTim on Jul 18, 2010 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
maybe he threw the breaking pitch
because either a) he wanted to bean fielder in the head
and/or b) he didn’t want to cripple Fielder and do any permanent damage
and/or c) wanted to put a real big scare into him before finishing the job.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 18, 2010 7:07 AM CDT up reply actions
d) to irritate Prince so he would know that Prince would really dig in for the next pitch in the back.
"I agree but dont agree"
by juggernaut400 on Jul 18, 2010 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Just a little side note here...
After the 3rd out of the ninth was recorded by the Brewers, Rickie could very clearly be seen untucking. I’m not sure if Prince did as well, but Rickie did for sure.
I think this was his little way of saying F-U to the constant HBP fests that Brewers games have turned into of late. If there’s a replay (and knowing FSN, there will be) you should see for yourself.
"The Milwaukee Brewers' line score is starting to resemble an international phone number" - Pittsburgh Pirates Radio during 20-0 shutout - 4-22-10
If they’re going to get hit for not doing anything, they might as well get their money’s worth.
"The Milwaukee Brewers' line score is starting to resemble an international phone number" - Pittsburgh Pirates Radio during 20-0 shutout - 4-22-10
If by "get their money's worth"
You mean start a brawl of never before seen magnitude involving several casualties then yes, yes they should.
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
by mnbrewer on Jul 17, 2010 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good.
Maybe this will motivate the team to start doing it again.
by Zorakathura on Jul 17, 2010 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Someone should ask Ned Yost about this incident
Given his friendship with Bobby Cox and the way the Brewers fired him, he might have something interesting to say.
Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.
he was
2 pitches away from not hitting Prince.
Get well soon Ueck
by molitorfan on Jul 18, 2010 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah when this happened
So when Brad Thompson hit the Brewers first baseman and the most valuable player candidate Prince Fielder in the second inning Wednesday night with two on and first base open, the appearance of retaliation was so obvious that the umpire Tom Hallion warned both benches. That was why Yost and McClung were ejected in the eighth, when McClung hit Pujols in the back with the Cardinals leading, 2-1.
Although McClung insisted it was accidental, Yost, by not using Derrick Turnbow, his regular right-handed setup man, suggested that something was going on. The Cardinals rallied for four runs off Turnbow to win, 7-3, and the Brewers missed a chance to pick up a game on the Cubs. Fielder, the Brewers’ clubhouse leader, has no issue with Yost’s behavior. Fielder said the team’s last two losses had less to do with the manager and more to do with the players pressing.
"It’s great to know your manager is behind you," he said. "That’s all you ask for.
We were pretty much saying “WTF Ned”. Not that McClung had control problems.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Jul 18, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think I'm starting to see jmu_dreamscape's point
I mean it’s just part of the game, it was an accident. We should all be classier like the Braves and just let it go.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
Starting to see why Bobby Cox had so many problems with Escobar
So many problems that he basically had Escobar traded when Frank Wren couldn’t use the “but he’s producing” line on Cox.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 17, 2010 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Escobar can telephatically force the Braves bench to clear?
No wonder they traded him, he’s like that kid from The Omen or something.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
One bench clears, the other bench clears...
I think you know that since you probably have seen more than one baseball game in your life. Yet…nobody except Escobar seemed to say anything about it. Well, obviously, he was the one hit…but nobody seemed anxious to further the ruckus. Guessed they just didn’t want Escobar to get his ass whipped.
Funny story…they actually gave Alex Gonzalez a standing ovation when he arrived at Turner Field. They must have really hated Escobar.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 18, 2010 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions
They also
Give Bobby Cox ovations when he gets ejected 6 billion times.
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
Name me one fan base
That doesn’t cheer the manager when he gets ejected. It’s just the dumb thing fans do to show they love their team or at least love a good show. It seems extremely dumb when you aren’t there, I admit.
For clarification…I meant “they” the players gave Gonzalez that ovation. That is pretty telling, at least to me, on how far against what the Brave stand for Escobar was.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 18, 2010 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Our fan base cheers when our manager gets ejected
Because it’s only happened once… in two years. Bobby Cox gets ejected 10 times a year. Does that sound like someone with class?
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
Class? No, not really.
I think Cox actually believes it will help motivate the troops. It’s from this old school thought process that every time you get ejected, a win streak will follow and no matter how many times it doesn’t work, he still believes it will. Kind of like wasting a huge OPS bat on bunting. Or think “ohh, there is a runner on, bring in the groundball specialist.” Or “lefthand hitters can’t possibly hit lefthand pitching.” Or…
I will be glad to see him gone.
Provided Ned Yost doesn’t follow.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 18, 2010 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions
So he'll get himself ejected for motivation
but he wouldn’t put in the order to throw at someone? I always thought that was one of the prime examples of “old school” baseball.
by dickie_thon on Jul 18, 2010 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, so is stealing bases
And the Braves routinely finish near the bottom in steal attempts every year. So, Cox doesn’t bring all of the old school with him.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 18, 2010 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions
So he's only old school
when it comes to leaving the game?
by dickie_thon on Jul 18, 2010 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions
And bunting...LH can't hit LHP...veterans are far more trustworthy...
…did I mention bunting?
One of the things he does the most is just let the game play out. It’s why he’s the “player’s manager” and players love to play for him. He typically just lets them run the team. Until the playoffs, when he dusts off the “stragery book” and things get really odd (let’s start Brian Jordan, who you have been benching for bad performances, because it’s the playoffs and veterans just “get it” when the playoffs start).
…I hate Bobby sometimes.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 18, 2010 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Remember that other old school thing he does?
When he sends his pitchers out to hit guys to “teach them a lesson”?
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
Still waiting on it, actually.
Hoping he’d hit Craig Counsell or Jim Edmonds. Nobody deserves a fastball between the numbers like those two.
Well…maybe David Eckstein.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 18, 2010 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Because Counsell starts his swing high?
So we can’t start OR finish our swings high without being plunked?
Too close for missiles, I’m switching to Ueck.
by theBrouhaha on Jul 18, 2010 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Um...
Because he’s killed the Braves over the years. Or at least, when he was a Marlin, he did. Put away the jump to conclusion map. It was terrible anyway. This idea.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 18, 2010 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Like Bizarro Ned Yost
who makes weird decisions during the regular season, but has yet to get in the way of any player in the playoffs. Weird.
by dickie_thon on Jul 18, 2010 12:35 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
wait...what's wrong with the philosophy
that you bring in a lefty pitcher to face a lefty batter?
or, for that matter, using a GB specialist with a runner on first?
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 18, 2010 7:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorry I wasn't clear...
I meant that a LH batter can’t hit any LH pitchers.
GB specialist is overblown when that GB specialist is struggling or flatout sucks (see Peter Moylan and Kevin Gryboski).
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 18, 2010 7:32 AM CDT up reply actions
well...the average LH batter can't
but yeah, you look at their splits (and their sample size)
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 18, 2010 7:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Pretty telling that the Braves players are jerks
Guy who has been one of the best players on your team in past seasons is having a down year and doesn’t get along with someone in the front office? Trade him and give a standing ovation when he’s gone. Classy!
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Jul 18, 2010 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well...
I think it’s more that Escobar angered everyone on the team. You ever been on a team before? Or just at your job? Someone who doesn’t fit in and does everything that the you and your co-workers do not do? When he moves on and someone else steps in, I think you’d be glad to see that new person.
I didn’t like the trade, but I can understand the reasoning of selling extra low just to get rid of someone for harmony and chemistry in the clubhouse. Again, not that I agree with it.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 18, 2010 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, but I've never applauded when someone I didn't particularly like was fired. Because I'm not a jerk...
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Jul 18, 2010 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
"what the Brave[s] stand for"
What is that? Do they have a manifesto?
by Zorakathura on Jul 18, 2010 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes.
Losing in October so much it hurts.
Wait, does it have to be longer to be considered a manifesto?
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 18, 2010 12:18 AM CDT up reply actions
I require at least 10 pages single spaced.
by Zorakathura on Jul 18, 2010 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions
See...
In the South, we like to streamline things like that. Keeps us from getting confused.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 18, 2010 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Hey Brewer Fans
To get this out in the open I am a Braves fan. I watch MLB Network religiously and I am pretty familiar with every team in MLB. I have seen some cockiness off of Fielder several times after hitting a home run. But tonight wasn’t one of those times. I think it was just momentum that caused him to swing like that. Braves announcers said he always swings like that. To Braves fans we know Venters as being wild at times. But that looked intentional to me. And to be honest Venters is the last guy I would expect that from. Also, the Braves pitchers are known for hitting a few batters. Tommy Hanson leads baseball in hits batsman and this is the first its been said to be intentional. Bobby Cox said he didn’t know there was a warning issued. Maybe true, or not but I voted venters only for suspension. I think that was all on him.
by asset on Jul 17, 2010 11:44 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Additionally
I think I heard on the broadcast Fielder has been hit 14 times?? whoa. I think the whole “I’m a grenade blowing this place up” charade left a bad taste in a lot of people’s mouth, not just the Giants maybe?
It's perfectly true and acceptable that people like to pitch him inside.
Lots of those HBP’s have been off the thigh or just made contact as he leaned in. Very few of them have come in the middle of the back, after a head high pitch inside and after an umpire’s warning.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 17, 2010 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed
I have seen Venters hit a few batters. But I find it odd for a batter to get hit in the back like he was. After a pitch that was going towards the head. That was Fielder’s first home run against the Braves so I just don’t get why he would do that. I don’t believe it was an accident but I’m not entirely sure that it was the home run that prompted it only Venters knows why he did it. But again I think that what happened with the Giants hurt Fielders reputation a bit. I thought it looked neat-o but whatever. I thought it was classy that they didn’t retaliate but we will see what happens tomorrow.
If you're suggesting
(and I’m not sure that you are, so sorry if I’m wrong) that the Braves feel the need to weigh in on a celebration from a game they weren’t a part of, that speaks pretty poorly of them.
by dickie_thon on Jul 18, 2010 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Not necessarily wrong
I can’t really suggest what the Braves are doing I have no idea what made Venters do that. I think Fielder being hit 14 times this season, after that show the Brewers put on, may have something to do with it and if so it wouldn’t only be the braves weighing in on that game.
My guess is
That the celebration has contributed to a general reputation (unfounded, as I argued above) that the Brewers are a team that needs to be put in its place. And that’s why teams seem so much quicker to hit Brewers batters for any perceived offenses.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 18, 2010 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions
That is a matter between the Brewers and the Giants
And it was settled. I don’t think the majority of Brewer fans had a problem with Fielder getting plunked in spring training.
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
I certainly did
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Jul 18, 2010 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I understand
who was involved in the game. But a players reputation will proceed him. As I said in the original post I have seen Fielder admire his long balls plenty of times. With a air of cockiness about it. But I don’t think he did that tonight. and even if he did doesn’t mean he deserves to have a pitch thrown at his head (or his back). Just making a possible connection between that game and being hit 14 times
No, I agree with you
I think that’s exactly why he was hit tonight. I appreciate that you are a Braves fan who is willing to see reason on this particular issue, instead of, say, denying the HBP was intentional.
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
Thanks
I don’t think there is any denying that was intentional. Sad but true. The guy has hit a few people and has been wild at times but he knew where he was throwing that ball. and he should be ashamed of himself lol. He did look guilty after wards I thought. But I noticed Ross, the catcher, threw his hands up in the air like wtf was that? after he hit him, like he wasn’t expecting it. Anyway I just realized I am STARVING so nice chatting. Hopefully we will have a less dramatic game tomorrow!
This might actually be true
When I first saw it, I thought Ross was objecting to the umpire tossing Venters, but when watching the replay a few times, it happens a heartbeat after the ump tosses him out. There’s enough of a gap to make it possible Ross was confused by Venters’ ummm, pitch selection. He might’ve been reacting to the ump there, but you could be right that even Ross thought the message had already been sent.
Fielder doesn't "admire his long balls" or act cocky any more than any other slugger in the majors
People around the country dislike the Milwaukee Brewers because they dare to be so disrespectful as to have fun playing the game.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Jul 18, 2010 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I always wonder
if it’s partially because we were so bad for so long. Kind of a “know your role” kind of thing. Like we are being perceived as cocky partially because we left the “padding everyone’s win column” category to the “one of the teams trying to actually compete with the big markets”. But we’re well under .500, so I may be way off.
by dickie_thon on Jul 18, 2010 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I actually like it
I would prefer to see something like what the team did at home plate then to see a guy stare at his hr for 20 seconds before starting his hr trot that takes a minute to complete.
by asset on Jul 18, 2010 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes
I would prefer to see something like what the team did at home plate then to see a guy stare at his hr for 20 seconds before starting his hr trot that takes a minute to complete. Albert Pujols
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
With that said....
Both Rickie Weeks and Prince Fielder lead the NL in being hit. Obviously we are concerned if 2 of our batters are the top 2 on the list.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
I don't know how anyone on the field could have missed the warning
Heck, when I saw Angel Hernandez walk to the mound and then start pointing at dugouts, it looked like a warning to me….
As far as I'm concerned the Braves have sucked since 1966.
by Zorakathura on Jul 17, 2010 11:44 PM CDT reply actions 7 recs
Ooohhhhh.
Too close for missiles, I’m switching to Ueck.
by theBrouhaha on Jul 18, 2010 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
There's something about "Jonny"
Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.
Seeing a pattern?
What is this the third team in the last couple of years that has seen a problem with the way the Brewers play the game?
What exactly are they mad about here?
Prince getting off-balance on a HR swing?
by dickie_thon on Jul 18, 2010 12:56 AM CDT up reply actions
No clue not in the clubhouse.
Cards, Giants, Braves all have taken exception to the way the Brewers go about their business and some of the antics that go on. If its one team you shake it off but three teams you may need to reevaluate what you do or quit whining when you get plunked and yes it was on purpose and a little farther north than I would be comfortable with.
Is this about untucking shirts again?
Because, seriously, what did your parents do to you to make you so sensitive.
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
by mnbrewer on Jul 18, 2010 1:07 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Again, what are they so mad about?
Specifically, please. And this year, if at all possible. Or just more conjecture.
by dickie_thon on Jul 18, 2010 1:20 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The problem with your "logic" being that even the Braves announcers couldn't figure out why Fielder was beaned.
So I guess your “theory” is really just a figment of your limited imagination.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 18, 2010 1:33 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fielder and Braun
probably hit on their wives
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 18, 2010 7:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Seriously I don't understand why
self-proclaimed moral police can formulate their own subjective definition of cocky, and then be an asshole and enforce their definition of cocky by throwing hard objects at peoples head at 90 miles per hour.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Jul 18, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
It works for our foreign policy, right?
"When you really, really break it down the only numbers that count is how many runs you help (produce) and how many runs you save. There’s really not a number for that." --Casey McGehee
by heybatterbatter on Jul 18, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Slight difference between finishing your swing high and hosting a terrorist organization that's killed thousands.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 18, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Who are you?
And why are you here?
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
by mnbrewer on Jul 18, 2010 1:03 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Perhaps KL should institute what many other blogs on SBNation have...
and put the 3 day wait on posting after joining…
"The Milwaukee Brewers' line score is starting to resemble an international phone number" - Pittsburgh Pirates Radio during 20-0 shutout - 4-22-10
by MadtownTim on Jul 18, 2010 1:48 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, please
what have the Brewers done to anyone THIS YEAR to piss them off?
No untucking, no standing and watching homeruns, no jumping high-five in the outfield, what?
I mean, this is the second series with Atlanta this season. Shouldn’t this have been taken care of in the first series? It was a scoreless game, in the 4th inning, on May 10 when Hanson hit Braun.
In Friday’s game, Fielder is hit on the next pitch following Braun’s home run. You’ll notice in the video, that Braun leaves the box immediately and at a full run. Did no admiring and only high-fived a teammate at homeplate. Maybe Hanson should start thinking about walking Braun instead of being his personal piñata.
I personally hope that the Brewers do nothing tomorrow other than win. I used to have a great deal of respect for the way the Braves went about their business. Cox getting tossed every other 7th game was just the way it was. Leo rocked on the bench and the Braves won with my cousin playing catcher. That respect is gone, however. The Braves can make all of the complaints they want about perceived disses by the Brewers, but the facts are the facts. The Brewers have done nothing to the Braves. Taking 3 of 4 from the first place Atlanta Braves does more than hitting one of their players.
"The Milwaukee Brewers' line score is starting to resemble an international phone number" - Pittsburgh Pirates Radio during 20-0 shutout - 4-22-10
by MadtownTim on Jul 18, 2010 1:45 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
More from B. Cox
"I didn’t even know they warned him, to be honest with you," said Cox. "We didn’t hit [Ryan] Braun intentionally in Milwaukee, at all. We didn’t hit Fielder [intentionally] last night at all. And we didn’t hit him tonight intentionally, at all. And that is the truth.
"But from their perspective in the other dugout … [Milwaukee pitcher Randy] Wolf threw one up in [Brian McCann’s] chin last night, and I said, well, that’s OK. We had it coming, even though it wasn’t intentional. That squares it.
"I don’t know what happened to Venters. The first one was a slider, and the next one just hit him. I don’t blame Prince for being mad, at all, but it’s not intentional. But the umpires had no choice. They issued the warning and then we hit him. And the one last night, you know, we hit him after a home run. It looks intentional."
http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-braves/brewers-tag-hudson-with-572857.html
Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.
Yeah!
Get Macha suspended for a couple of weeks, and if the team starts winning while he’s gone, just don’t bring him back.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 18, 2010 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Last time I checked
this was baseball, not chess. When Prince hit a homer against Hanson in Milwaukee earlier this year he stood and admired it. That entitles us to the right to bean Prince every at-bat if we choose to. Don’t like it? Tough. Pinch-hit for him.
Anyway, Venters didn’t mean to hit him anyway. it was just a fastball that got away. Since you haven’t seen him at all this year, you assume it was intentional. But JV is just effectively wild.
Fielder hadn't homered against the braves all year until last night
Go back to the south and stay there.
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
by mnbrewer on Jul 18, 2010 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't bother him with facts.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 18, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
2 fastballs that got away?
my high school JV team would have cut him after 2 consecutive pitches that terrible.
Shruggity.
so...not chess
but each move needs a corresponding counterattack?
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 18, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
And you're effectively a dumbass.
Anyway, it was a sinker. He said so. Because that sounds better than saying he threw a shoulder high fastball at another human being.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 18, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Also
it’s not like it’s easy to NOT hit Fielder. He’s like 300 pounds of fat vegetarian standing there.
That's a mindnumbingly retarded comment.
Shruggity.
by Mykenk on Jul 18, 2010 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gonna go ahead and ban you because other SBNation blogs have done so for being a troll as well
KL can bring you back if he feels the need. But congratulations, you are the first troll to ever come here and make a Prince Fielder fat joke! Claim your prize!
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Jul 18, 2010 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Thanks for beating me to it.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Jul 18, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
There are mods here...
… why is this piece of refuse still around?
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 18, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He was banned, see comment above yours
Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.
Thanks!
This guy is a troll. He was horrible for the Packers/Cards game when he made like 7 accounts to keep posting the foul and perverted thoughts in his head. BRAVO :)
by Bush League All Star on Jul 18, 2010 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He was bad.
I am sure he has a ban stick from every SBN blog.
by Bush League All Star on Jul 18, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
furthermore
what are you complaining about? he got a free base out of it, so it’s not like we didn’t suffer any consequences already. Now, ON TOP OF IT, you want to suspend venters and cox?
also, what fielder did on the bases was pretty despicable, and that WAS intentional
Given that Fielder could have just pile-drived Venters into the pitchers' mound
I’d be pretty pleased to get away with a nasty takeout slide at second if I were the Braves.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 18, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
wah-wah-wah
it wasn’t on purpose and you guys saying Bobby is senile? hilarious
It reallly must suck to be 9 games back, if this is all you have to talk about
And now your gonna come after JHEY today and he’s gonna take it like a man rather than Prince whining about it
OJ didn't do it
its called the wind-knocked out
and not rushing to get back up(its called smart) especially when he just got back from an injury
OJ didn't do it
A clown
who has dominated the MLB as a 20 year old until he got injured… you guys would trade Braun and prospects for JHEY and dont evenn lie you would
OJ didn't do it
by bflobraves on Jul 18, 2010 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nope. No thanks
.255BA, .360OBP, .450SLG is nice, but it’s hardly “dominating” (and that’s as of the day he got hurt, ignoring what’s happened since he came back)
Maybe in a couple years he’ll be a pretty good player. Right now, he’s slightly above league average. Whoop-de-doo!
Shruggity.
Throw in Hanson and it's a deal.
Otherwise we’ll take the guy who’s actually done it over your over-hyped youngster.
Thanks for asking.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 18, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
BAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
This was one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read in my life. And it gets a rec from me.
Yeah, well, sometimes I drink.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Jul 19, 2010 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Kool-Aid Man doesn't whine.
Go ahead, keep plunking him. One of these times he’ll come crashing through the clubhouse wall.
by nullacct on Jul 18, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 9 recs
And now you're gone too.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Jul 18, 2010 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Prince isn't even going to be a Brewer in 2 weeks
why do you care?
Because he's a Brewer now.
Shruggity.
by Mykenk on Jul 18, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
and we don't want to pay for his medical treatment
corey koskie style
and well, we believe this retaliatory bullshit is bullshit and some team should stand up and say “it ain’t right.” Especially when the retaliation is based on Prince being professional and doing his job properly. I can see a beaning-for-beaning or a beaning-for-an-injury-due-to-a-takeout-slide trade off, but not a beaner for a homerun (or a bunt) or something else non-physical.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 18, 2010 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Quote from Brewers Bar:
Earlier this season, Eric Hinske told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that Cox was “kind of like a mob boss,” saying, “Everybody brings him stuff – chairs, coffee, water. Then he makes the decision. He’s like our own Tony Soprano.”
I can see that analogy. Like a mob boss, he orders the hits, has someone else take the fall, and then plays dumb when asked about the incident. Seems fitting, doesn’t it?
Shruggity.
by Mykenk on Jul 18, 2010 11:08 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Incidentally
That Hinske quote appears in a FOX Sports article from July 5 (link). The article also has an item about George Steinbrenner’s birthday containing this unfortunate ending:
Some insiders believe the Yankees will be sold soon after the elder Steinbrenner’s passing, although one member of the organization cautioned against thinking too far ahead.
He said, "George is a machine. He’s not going anywhere."
Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.
This thread may be record-breaking.
So long and always on-subject. So many folks contributed such interesting points. Even the retards who joined us offered good laughs. What a great read.
Now let’s go chop ’em any way we can!
"When you really, really break it down the only numbers that count is how many runs you help (produce) and how many runs you save. There’s really not a number for that." --Casey McGehee
by heybatterbatter on Jul 18, 2010 11:59 AM CDT reply actions
New shirt design!
I’m in for one!
"When you really, really break it down the only numbers that count is how many runs you help (produce) and how many runs you save. There’s really not a number for that." --Casey McGehee
by heybatterbatter on Jul 18, 2010 12:02 PM CDT reply actions
Yep
The Ax shirt was added to the selection a month or two ago (store link).
Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.
If the banhammer isn't broken out at least twice in this thread, it might as well not exist.
I also think that this, in combination with the Ed Hardy ads, is a very good example of why there should be a waiting period for new members of this site before they can comment.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 18, 2010 12:23 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Well.....
Braves fan here. So you might assume correctly that I’m taking Venters side. But I do so also because I’ve watched almost every game this year. Venters has a tendency to send a pitch or two to the backstop on his first pitch(s) of the game. He’s been effective after that though. I think the Brewers are reading too much into this. I personally think the Brewers are creating the bad blood, not the Braves by making such a big deal out of things.
by clicheguevara85 on Jul 18, 2010 12:30 PM CDT reply actions
Other Braves fans disagree:
I appreciate team loyalty as much as the next person, but come on. A pitch over his head then a pitch in his back? That had to be intentional. But the real problem was Cox once again leaving in a starter in the 7th inning to lose a game. Use your damn bullpen. It’s great!
by redwards95 on Jul 18, 2010 6:33 AM EDT reply Star Unrec? 1
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 18, 2010 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
The above was cut and pasted from the post game comment thread on Talking Chop.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 18, 2010 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Here's another:
Come On
Prince jacks a long HR, shows up the Braves on the follow through and bat flip. Venters subsequently throws one over his head then puts one right on target between the shoulder blades. If you don’t think that’s a purposeful message then you know a lot less about the workings of baseball than I ever thought. Come on.
by CharlotteChop on Jul 18, 2010 10:45 AM EDT reply actions
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 18, 2010 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Huh.
In the 37 games Venters had pitched in his career, he had never hit a batter with either one of his first two pitches, until facing Fielder last night.
There goes that theory.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 18, 2010 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
When I’ve seen it, it’s usually to a righty. Venters hasn’t been used as a lefty specialist so he faces just as many rightys as leftys. Anyway, sometimes that first pitch flies right where a lefty would be standing.
by clicheguevara85 on Jul 18, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Second one two, apparently.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 18, 2010 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
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