Braves 11, Brewers 6
by Kyle Lobner on Jul 18, 2010 4:11 PM CDT
in WPA Game Recaps
Email
PrintW: Derek Lowe (10-8)
L: Manny Parra (3-7)
HR: Rickie Weeks 2 (17), Prince Fielder (22), Brian McCann (11), Matt Diaz (3)
MVP: Rickie Weeks (+.083)
LVP: Manny Parra (-.434)
Win Expectancy Graph and Star of the Game Voting
SB Nation Coverage
This one got off to a great start, but went downhill quickly.
Rickie Weeks led off the game with a home run for the sixth time this season, and it looked like the Brewers might be primed for a good day against Derek Lowe. It took six innings for the Brewer bats to get going again, though, and the Braves scored seven runs in the second and third innings and never looked back.
Manny Parra's been having a rough stretch lately but this might have been his worst start of the season. He allowed ten runs on ten hits and two walks in 5.1 innings, striking out four and allowing a grand slam to Brian McCann on an 0-2 count. It's now been a month since he's completed the sixth inning.
Some bullet-pointed bright sides:
- Weeks' leadoff shot was the first of two for him in the game. The second one was his 17th, setting a new Brewer franchise record for second basemen. He also singled in the ninth and scored three runs.
- Corey Hart singled in the third inning to extend his hitting streak to nine games and 29 of 30.
- Lorenzo Cain picked up his first major league hit, a single to left, in the seventh inning, doubled to left for his second hit in the ninth, and scored his first run on Corey Hart's sac fly.
- Prince Fielder hit his 22nd home run of the season in the top of the eighth, tying him for the NL lead.
- This is the last time the Brewers will see the Braves this season.
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I'll take comfort in the fact that Atlanta was the most over-performing team in the majors in the first half
Doubt they make the playoffs.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
Over performing? Like half of the Braves are underperforming.
They were without Jurrjens for 2 months. No Heyward for a month. No Diaz for 2 months. Escobar was awful. McLouth was awful. McCann and Chipper weren’t hitting until June.
Yet somehow, the Braves have the best record in the NL. Come on man.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 18, 2010 6:01 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh, and they also had Kawakami in the rotation instead of Medlen.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 18, 2010 6:02 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Your entire offense is overperforming. Your entire bullpen is overperforming. Your starting rotation is overperforming.
That about cover it?
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
Hahaha you’re right. We suck and have the best record for no reason.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 18, 2010 6:07 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
No, you have the best record because you've been overperforming.
See how that works?
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
How have we been overperfoming? Besides Eric Hinske, Omar Infante, and maybe Kris Medlen, we’re all on par or just slightly under or over.
Please, post your stats. I’m looking forward to it now.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 18, 2010 6:11 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Calm down.
Maybe you shouldn’t let him get under your skin.
You can make stats say anything, after all.
Shruggity.
I just would like to know how the entire Braves team has been “overperforming”. As a Braves fan, I would love to know these things.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 18, 2010 6:16 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
He can’t post it for others to see on the blog?
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 18, 2010 6:24 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Sure he can.
But why should he? This is a Brewers blog, not a Braves blog, and no one but you cares.
Shruggity.
by Mykenk on Jul 18, 2010 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Your bullpen is old and has been unsustainably good.
Your starting rotation has been exceedingly lucky (Tim Hudson has been the luckiest pitcher in the major leagues)
Your offense stinks and has been propped up by a number of unrealistically good starts from players like Prado/Heyward/Glaus (Martin Prado is tied with Chase Utley for the WAR lead among NL 2B, but I’m sure he’s just that good…). Your offense has also relied almost entirely on an unsustainable walk rate that leads the major leagues.
Once those things fall back down to earth, I wouldn’t be surprised if you finished third in the NL East.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
Hahahahahahaha.
Have fun finishing with 75 wins this year.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 18, 2010 6:32 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Okay, here goes:
Billy Wagner is as healthy as he’s ever been, especially after a year off with TJS.
Takashi Saito is old, I’ll give you that. The man can still pitch though.
Besides that, who’s old? Venters, O’Flaherty are all under 27. Moylan is around 30. Chavez is 28. They’re not old. And because two of our guys are old we can’t keep it up?
Hudson has been lucky, but he’s a ground-ball pitcher and makes up for a lot with double plays and weak grounders. And sure, a few of our have higher FIPs, but most teams do.
Unrealistically good stats huh? Martin Prado is more of a .300 hitter, but he’s really improved since becoming the full-time 2nd baseman. Jason Heyward’s numbers are in-realistic? He was the #1 prospect in baseball. And take a look at Glaus’ career numbers when he’s healthy (as he is this season). You’ll find he’s right on par for his averages.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 18, 2010 9:17 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
^^^^This Man^^^^
Is somehow one of the “authors” of talking chop.
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
Maybe it explains why we have the 2nd biggest SBN baseball blog?
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 18, 2010 9:05 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The Yankees have the largest following in baseball and their blog is in the 8-11 range on SBN. A past owner has nothing to do with how popular a blog is.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 18, 2010 9:09 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes, but the whole “mvhs is an ‘author’ on Talking Chop explains a lot” doesn’t have anything to do with our blog.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 18, 2010 9:19 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
You're just making yourself look like an ass, you know.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 18, 2010 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Oops.
Reply fail. That was directed at mvhsball… sorry Mykenk.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 18, 2010 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Congratulations on your blog.
I was referencing the behavior of some of the visitors including yourself. You’re not doing Talking Chop any favors by coming to another blog and whining.
Aw, come on now
He’s been friendly to BCB for a while now. He’s never been a troll. Be nice.
Maybe some of the Braves are overperforming but it evens out some with the injuries they’ve had.
My goodness.
by BrewHaHeather on Jul 18, 2010 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Thank you.
I enjoy reading other blogs. I wasn’t trying to troll. The guy/gal said the Braves would finish in 3rd in the Nl East because we were overperforming and I said the Brewers would finish with 75 wins. What’s wrong with that?
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 18, 2010 9:07 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Perfectly fine response... if you're in third grade.
Go back and troll your own blog if it’s so popular.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Jul 18, 2010 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
So you can say the Braves will finish 3rd, but I can’t say the Brewers will finish with 75 wins?
I see.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 18, 2010 9:18 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I think it was
more the moronic laughter.
Shruggity.
by Mykenk on Jul 18, 2010 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh come on.
Don’t try to back track when you mock someone. If you’re going to troll, don’t back down when you realize no one is buying your argument.
All is vanity.
Sounds good.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 19, 2010 4:42 AM CDT up reply actions
it was the word choice and the timing
yes, if SRB had made that comment on your blog, it probably would have earned everyone’s ire there. And perhaps you don’t believe his statements to be true.
I think it’s a stretch to expect the top team in baseball to slide to 3rd place in their division, especially a division in the NL.
Are there individual braves under-preforming? Yes. Is the whole team? Maybe/Probably. But that doesn’t mean that they’ll start losing consistently when they regress to true talent level. They’ve built up some momentum, and more importantly a lead in the standings. If you restarted the season right now, they might finish in 3rd or 4th in their division, but to expect them to finish 3rd OVERALL is actually irresponsible troll-baiting on SRB’s part, unless he’s willing to back it up with the numbers and projection/simulations.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 19, 2010 6:57 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
P.S. subject line and body were aimed at two different audiences
but both sides should probably read
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 19, 2010 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions
You do realize the Phillies are in their division, right?
Braves have been overperforming, Phillies have been underperforming. It’s not “troll-baiting” to think that…
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
to finish 3rd
two teams have to pass them. I’m not sold on the Mets holding it together.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 19, 2010 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
This thread has been just ugly to read so far. We had a legit gripe with last night’s Fielder thread, but this just reeks of sour grapes.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 18, 2010 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Anyone who stops by a Brewers blog to try and start an argument following a Brewers loss is a troll
It’s one of Newton’s laws.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
True
But we kind of gave up the upper hand when our initial point was, “So what? Your team sucks anyway, losers.”
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 18, 2010 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Who said that?
They have been overperforming and I do doubt that they stay ahead of New York and Philadelphia, which was my original post.
But, now that you mention it, their team and their fanbase do both essentially suck.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
Lord knows that’s the truth!
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 19, 2010 4:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Yea, I think we lose the debate when it gets to
“well I hope we do win 75 games”
still, annoying that he stopped by
I disagree very strongly
SRB merely stated his opinion. This clown came all the way over from another blog, made no initial attempt at a reasoned response, and childishly insulted us. No sour grapes, just idiots.
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
by mnbrewer on Jul 19, 2010 1:43 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
What was so wrong with what I said? It’s true. The Brewers are on pace to finish around 74 wins.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 18, 2010 9:04 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Maybe I was too mean
But coming over to another blog and saying this:
Hahahahahahaha.
Have fun finishing with 75 wins this year.
Isn’t that the definition of a troll?
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
by mnbrewer on Jul 19, 2010 1:39 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
The initial intent wasn't to troll.
All he did was ask why SRB thought his team was underperforming. From there it turned into silly bickering and childish responses from both sides. I’ll definately agree with you that “have fun winning 75 games this year” was troll-ish
There are plenty of Cubs, Cardinals, and, more recently, Braves fans who stop by just to say “Haha. Your team sucks. Prince Fielder is fat,” etc. I’m just saying that mvhsbball has stopped by many times and been very friendly, not like one of those other trolls.
My goodness.
by BrewHaHeather on Jul 19, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Silly bickering and childish responses, give me a break.
Re-read what I said or don’t comment.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
I did re-read it before commenting
It was, and still is, bickering.
My goodness.
by BrewHaHeather on Jul 19, 2010 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions
On the flipside...
The bullpen’s age has been well stated. I suppose we need to find out what your idea of “old” is, but I don’t see the pen being “old” by any means, I guess. The starting rotation has NOT been exceedingly lucky. Tim Hudson has. Tommy Hanson, Kenshin Kawakami, and Derek Lowe have not. Medlen has…but then, so has Randy Wolf and Dave Bush. I suppose they will have miserable second half’s.
Martin Prado is a career .312/.361/.464 hitter. The one outlier has been slugging this year and only a 30 point swing. While he may not be well known, Prado has exceeded everyone’s expectations, including my own who wrote him off as a utility guy who might become Placido Polanco on his best day.
Unsustainable walk rate…why? Walk rates over 90 or so games is a pretty good snapshot into a team and you believe they will morph into aggressive free swingers over the final two months? Well, trading for Gonzalez and dropping Escobar’s patient bat will hurt that, but it’s not like Escobar was doing anything else to help out.
Which brings me to the fact that no one has truly performed in a Corey Hart fashion…i.e. a career year. Prado’s added a little slugging and his career has trended that way anyway over the past few years that he was adding pop to his bat. Glaus’s offensive production is completely in line with his offensive norms…except he has hit for less pop, which was expected. Heyward doesn’t have a wealth of history to suggest what he may do to realistically expect anything, but my shot in the dark was a .260ish AVG, OBP in the .340 department…ISO in the .150-.175 range. His projections were similar in nature and unsurprisingly, he has performed as such.
And…to borrow your wording…the Braves have had to deal with unrealistically bad starts from players like Brian McCann, Yunel Escobar, Chipper Jones, Nate McLouth, and Matt Diaz. So…if “things fall back to earth,” wouldn’t those players (sans Escobar, of course) have highly productive second halves?
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 18, 2010 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Why do you people come over here?
Scrolling down this topic it’s like you’re on a crusade to prove the Braves are legit. Sorry man, wrong blog. No one here is gonna care.
All is vanity.
by levnclf on Jul 18, 2010 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
It's kind of like this...
You are at another team’s blog and they have basically thrown comments that are easily refutable about your team. Maybe you don’t have any desire to respond, maybe you do. It’s the internet anyway so mostly, it’s a waste of time whether you are talking about your favorite team at your blog or another. Regardless, I think the act of partaking in actual baseball dialogue is a fun one. Trolling, no, not really fun. I’m not here to speak negatively about the Brewers, just to support my Braves.
by jmu_dreamscape on Jul 19, 2010 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That last point
makes me the happiest. Because it means that we don’t have to deal with their fans again.
Get well soon Ueck
by molitorfan on Jul 18, 2010 4:13 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Unfortunately
We have Cardinals and Cubs fans to look forward to instead
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
Knock on wood
We haven’t had a single occasion this season where Cubs or Cardinals fans were as obnoxious as Braves fans were this week.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Jul 18, 2010 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Weird season
On my personal dislike-meter, I’ve moved Cubs fans up to only third, maybe even just fourth, worst fans in baseball.
1) Cardinals
2) Braves
3) Cubs/Giants
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
Which reminds me
did anyone hear whether Gomez was actually hobbling out of the box when running to first on today’s last AB? I didn’t see the play but there were some of us who commented about it.
"When you really, really break it down the only numbers that count is how many runs you help (produce) and how many runs you save. There’s really not a number for that." --Casey McGehee
by heybatterbatter on Jul 18, 2010 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Let me rephrase that. I'm sure no one "heard" him hobbling...
That fancy sound system in Atlanta ain’t that good. ;-)
"When you really, really break it down the only numbers that count is how many runs you help (produce) and how many runs you save. There’s really not a number for that." --Casey McGehee
by heybatterbatter on Jul 18, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The awesomest injury ever!
Please give Macha a reason to play Cain every day. Oh wait. He’s got JEd. So Cain will still rot on the bench.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Jul 18, 2010 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Fixed
I started working on the recap when I thought he was done after five.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Splits don't cut it when you are 10 games under .500
Would like to see Cain get some playing time losing my love for Gomez very quickly
"It's a joke. It's all a joke.
by WSB Chris on Jul 18, 2010 4:44 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
As Rock would opine "True, but still and all..."
"When you really, really break it down the only numbers that count is how many runs you help (produce) and how many runs you save. There’s really not a number for that." --Casey McGehee
by heybatterbatter on Jul 18, 2010 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Check out Gomez's throwing "intelligence" a bit closer
Surely, playing a position has more than speed as a component. I’ll give him that he’s on a learning curve, as are a number of our players. But I don’t get the admiration here. He’s been with the team for a half year. Too early for permanent solutions, for my taste anyway.
Besides, you’re making Cain the second option in CF before he’s even been tested… I for one think Cain will prove he’s up to the job, wherever he plays.
"When you really, really break it down the only numbers that count is how many runs you help (produce) and how many runs you save. There’s really not a number for that." --Casey McGehee
by heybatterbatter on Jul 18, 2010 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes.
Gotta give Gomez every day playing time if you intend on giving him ANY sort of chance of coming CLOSE to reaching his potential.
http://www.mlbsoup.com
I'd say you give him that time
in the winter leagues and next year in spring training.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 19, 2010 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions
I see your point
But a split against the team with the NL’s best record on their home field is pretty good.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
I think we outta send Gomez to AAA
We also need to get Cain on the field more often. We can try him out at CF, having Edmonds getting his share of playing time too.
I’m beginning to wonder if we should send Parra down to AAA again too.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
If we sent Parra down to triple A, I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t clear waivers (even after his performance today).
Nor should he.
any team would be happy to have him.
Shruggity.
by Mykenk on Jul 18, 2010 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know that you love Manny Parra.
But he’s going to be 28 in October. When do we admit that He Is Who He Is?
SRS BSNS
by Rubie Q on Jul 18, 2010 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And who is that?
The viable 3-5th starter on a team, under control at a reasonable price? I’m not saying he’s an ace, no one is, but letting him go for nothing is silly.
Shruggity.
by Mykenk on Jul 18, 2010 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
A viable 3?
He hasn’t pitched 7 innings in any of his starts this year, and his WHIP stands at 1.75 after today’s disaster start. If he’s your 3, your bullpen won’t make it to July.
I know, I know: he had a tremendous FIP in the first half of 2008. But I’m starting to become convinced that the first half of 2008 was the exception, and the rest of his MLB career is the rule.
SRS BSNS
Well,
Really, he’s a 5, with a 3 upside, at this point.
You don’t expect your 5th starter to go 7 innings, 6 is pretty much optimal.
Also: Our bullpen didn’t make it to mid-May, remember?
Shruggity.
Again:
He’s 28 in October. The “upside” window is closing rapidly.
And our bullpen didn’t make it through May because we signed 35 to 42 year olds to fill critical roles. But that’s a different story for a different time.
SRS BSNS
by Rubie Q on Jul 18, 2010 9:37 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
SRS BSNS
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Jul 19, 2010 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions
First half of 2008?
More like all of 2008, and this year, he’s running it again with a 4.5 FIP and 5.5 ERA.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
Yeah, I'll second what Rubie said.
I think he’s too inconsistent and unreliable to be considered a “viable” anything at this point.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
I wouldn't
There are plenty of other roles in which to try a hard-throwing lefty if you don’t think he can stick in the rotation.
Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.
No, I'll agree with that.
But I don’t think every team would gladly take Valerio de los Santos II right now. Maybe half of ’em would.
SRS BSNS
by Rubie Q on Jul 18, 2010 9:33 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Somebody will be gone in a week... :-)
"When you really, really break it down the only numbers that count is how many runs you help (produce) and how many runs you save. There’s really not a number for that." --Casey McGehee
by heybatterbatter on Jul 18, 2010 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Quote from Macha after the game, from JSOnline:
"You’ve got to get rid of this type of stuff. … Take a look at the film and hit the guy hard and then that stops, and I don’t have to worry about guys yelling at me because I’m protecting my players or not protecting my players. I want to protect my players. If we have a fight, I’m going to be right in the middle of it. That’s all there is to it."
He could be talking about a fan yelling at him, I suppose, but my guess is it was Fielder. Maybe not this time around, but in the past, given the number of times he’s been hit.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 18, 2010 6:39 PM CDT reply actions
I figured it was probably the media
But I guess I can see where your interpretation comes from.
Shruggity.
I'm sorry if I made anyone made on the thread.
Have a good rest of the season.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 19, 2010 4:43 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
*mad
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 19, 2010 5:14 AM CDT up reply actions
you didn't make me mad
you just made me want the Phillies or Mets to win the NL East this year.
Get well soon Ueck
by molitorfan on Jul 19, 2010 5:53 AM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
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