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Around SBN: Bracketology 2012: Duke Finally Steps Up To The No. 1 Line

Thursday's Frosty Mug

This was one of three ninth inning defensive miscues that nearly cost the Brewers yesterday's game and a series sweep over the Cardinals.

Some things to read while wasting perfectly good mac and cheese.

For 8.1 innings yesterday, it seemed a little too good to be true. As You Can't Predict Baseball noted, the Brewers were beating Adam Wainwright, who hadn't lost at home all season, and doing so with a near-shutout from Randy Wolf, the NL leader in earned runs allowed. Then it almost all came crashing down. In the end, Trevor Hoffman was the unlikely hero, entering as the ninth inning's third pitcher with the bases loaded and two outs, and striking out Brendan Ryan with his trademark changeup to end the game.

The one-out save gave Hoffman #598 for his career, and Jordan Schelling is making the case for Hoffman to be the closer this weekend and potentially pick up save #600 against the Padres, his former team.

The defensive miscues that extended the game were bad enough, but yesterday could have turned out much worse. Prince Fielder jammed his left wrist making a tag after an errant throw from Escobar, who left the game later in the inning with a sore hamstring. Thankfully, neither injury appears to be serious: Fielder downplayed the severity of his injury and Escobar was apparently dealing with some cramping.

Yesterday was the Brewers' final game at Busch Stadium this season, and it's possible they'll actually miss it. At 18-9, the Brewers are one of just three visiting teams with a winning record in St. Louis since the start of the 2008 season.

Other notes from the field:

Carlos Gomez is eligible to be activated off the DL any day now, but the Brewers have yet to make a decision on his short term plans, and are reportedly considering optioning him to Nashville until rosters expand on September 1. Lorenzo Cain is hitting .389/.439/.556 in his first 13 major league games, so it'd be tough to send him back down at this point.

The Brewer draft continues to take a beating: Bryan Smith of FanGraphs says the Brewers had the worst draft in the NL Central. Meanwhile, Jim Callis of Baseball America notes that the Brewers spent $2.432 million on the draft, the least in all of baseball by over a million. Even if the Brewers had signed Dylan Covey for $2 million, they still would have been over $2 million under the average.

The Brewers Bar also noted that tweet and expanded on it a bit. All told, I don't see the lack of draft spending as a sign of any larger issues at this point. For one, the Brewers didn't have a top ten pick this year, and only had two picks in the top 64, so their expected expense should have been below average in the first place. For two, with the exception of Dylan Covey the Brewers signed all of their first 14 picks, so it's not like they left a lot on the table.

In the minors:

  • The affiliates went 1-3 yesterday. The lone win came from Huntsville, where Taylor Green went 5-for-5 with a home run and drove in six in the Stars' 17-4 win over Birmingham. You can read about that and more in today's Minor League Notes.
  • With the win the Stars improved their playoff standing a bit: They're now 2.5 games back of the wild card with 18 games to play.
  • Wisconsin Sports Tap has a look at 13 players that could be called up to the Brewers when rosters expand in September. Not all of them will be called up (room would have to be made on the 40 man roster for some of them), but it wouldn't surprise me if as many as eight of them were.
  • The Hardball Times has updated their list of baseball's top 100 prospects, with Brett Lawrie (#40), Alcides Escobar (#58) and Jake Odorizzi (#80) on the list.
  • The Brewers' Player Development Contract with Huntsville expires following the season, and it seems possible that the organization could look to move on. Mark McCarter of the Huntsville Times has a look at the situation, and notes that the Brewers' other options (Jackson, Tennessee, Erie or Harrisburg, Pennsylvania and Zebulon, North Carolina) aren't exceptionally appealing, either.
  • Adam McCalvy noted that story and yesterday's note on Oklahoma in his roundup of the potential affiliation shuffle.
  • Wisconsin is taking necessary precautions with third baseman Cutter Dykstra, placing him on the DL after he was hit in the head with a pitch earlier in the week. Dykstra's bat was starting to show signs of life this season (.304/.412/.418 for Wisconsin) and he's still only 21. Hopefully this will be nothing more than a brief setback.
  • If you subscribe to Baseball America or ESPN Insider you can see BA's piece on Jonathan Lucroy and Keith Law's recap of NL drafts. I'm not a subscriber to either, so that's all I can tell you.

Around baseball:

Astros: Placed pitcher Matt Lindstrom on the DL with a back injury.
Braves: Acquired first baseman Derrek Lee from the Cubs for three minor leaguers and placed first baseman Troy Glaus on the DL with a sore knee.
Giants: Placed reliever Chris Ray on the DL with an intercostal strain.
Marlins: Signed third baseman Wes Helms to a one year, $1 million contract extension for 2011 and placed reliever Sean West on the DL with right knee inflammation.
Rays: Signed pitcher Ramon Ortiz to a minor league deal.
Rockies: Are expected to release outfielder Brad Hawpe.
Tigers: Placed second baseman Carlos Guillen on the DL with a left knee contusion.

The Reds have won five straight games to improve to 69-51 and tie a season high with a three game lead in the NL Central. They're also reportedly offering Dusty Baker a contract extension. Baker's deal was set to run out following the season.

The Braves enter play today as one of just four major league teams with 70+ wins, the NL's second best record and a 2.5 game lead over the Phillies. Apparently that's not enough to draw fans out to Turner Field, though: The Braves drew just 18,105 fans to last night's win over the Nationals, and that's actually an improvement from Tuesday.

Conversation continues regarding the possibility of hard-slotting for future MLB drafts. You can add Craig Calcaterra to the list of folks saying it'll never happen.

Happy birthday today to:

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to get this off my face.

Drink up.

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Escobar

Why does The Hardball Times still consider him a prospect?

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 19, 2010 10:13 AM CDT reply actions  

Draft

They didn’t leave a lot on the table with the first 14 rounds, but they also didn’t take any risks or go after any over-slot guys with their selections. If you really wanted a cheap draft, you’d probably do what the Brewers did in rounds 2-14.

With that said, I don’t think its a larger issue because the Brewers don’t have a history of being cheap in the draft. Experts complained this draft was pretty low in talent, so its OK with me if the team didn’t give over-slot bonuses to kids who they didn’t want to. If there was ever a draft to be cheap in, this was probably it.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 19, 2010 10:18 AM CDT reply actions  

or saving for next year

take your pick

I don’t know if they knew that they were going to lose money this season when the draft came around.

by PagsBrewCrew on Aug 19, 2010 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

With the possible exception of Daniel Gibson

I agree. If there was a problem, it would be shying away from players that would require significant overslot bonuses. Not as much a problem in a shallow draft, but if it continues next year as the team loses money, then it becomes a problem. Spending in the draft seems to be the best way to avoid spending later as the team is more likely to have a bevy of quality prospects on the cheap for years to come.

by dtmeyers on Aug 19, 2010 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

But it wasn't an issue last year.

Last year they went well over slot for Kentrail Davis, Brooks Hall, D’Vontrey Richardson, Scooter Gennett et al.

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Aug 19, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Last year they were still riding the wave of the playoff appearance

This year, they are using two straight non-playoff years to budget.

Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.

by TheJay on Aug 19, 2010 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wouldnt be as much of a budgeting problem

If they stopped spending big money on marginal players

by backtocali on Aug 19, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

So long as it doesn't bleed into next years draft

its ok, this was a weak draft so not spending isn’t such a big deal. But if they aren’t making money and choose to spend on FA’s instead of quality players in the draft (especially with a strong draft coming up) it would be a huge mistake

by dtmeyers on Aug 19, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I get the feeling

That DM is going to continue with what he knows best, i.e. signing guys who are FA like Bonderman or some reliever, as well as retain Fielder @ $16mm and make a big push for Cliff Lee.

He’ll use the “lots of money coming off the books” argument to spend this money and in the end still leave the team short of the playoffs, thus bankrupting the future by about 6 years, like he did with the Rangers.

by backtocali on Aug 19, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think he has the money for that

As much as he might want to do something like that Mark A will have a cap and Melvin won’t be able to spend over that. Mark A isn’t going to let him bankrupt the future like that. He might make some dumb decisions, but I doubt Mark A is going to let him try to sign Fielder and Lee.

Go Reds! (This signature applies only through the 2010 regular season)

by ecocd on Aug 19, 2010 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I keep telling you!

It moved! It’s tail twitched! I swear!

Go Reds! (This signature applies only through the 2010 regular season)

by ecocd on Aug 19, 2010 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

AA team

I know it doesn’t matter to the team’s bottom line whether Huntsville has 100 or 10000 fans at each game, but it would be nice if the AA guys could play in front of a larger crowd than the rookie ballers.

Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.

by TheJay on Aug 19, 2010 10:19 AM CDT reply actions  

Neither am I.

But I attribute his suckiness this season to his overuse last season. They may do the same.

by klwillis45 on Aug 19, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Or he just had one good year...

His numbers this year are closer to what his career averages are.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 19, 2010 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

A definite possiblity.

Though I recall Todd praising the coaching staff in 09 for letting him dump 1 of his pitches, leading to his newfound success.

by klwillis45 on Aug 19, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's also possible

that his injury earlier this season has contributed to his performance this season. I believe it was the thumb on this throwing hand.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 19, 2010 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

So hopefully, if that's the case

They lay off of Axford and Loe for the rest of the year

by warwick5s on Aug 19, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Really?

I would think that overuse can only be used as a reason for sucky performance in the same season. Wouldn’t the off-season be sufficient to let his arm rest?

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 19, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Question

What’s Dickerson’s option situation? Has his already been used this year? If so, why not send him to AAA when Gomez is ready, then recall him in September, thus saving Gomez’s option for next year if needed.

http://www.twitter.com/mykenk

by Mykenk on Aug 19, 2010 10:34 AM CDT reply actions  

Not completely sure

I’d assume since Dickerson was optioned earlier this year he would be able to be sent down again.

Assuming they can send Dickerson down, I wouldn’t be surprised if that is what they do.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 19, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dickerson hasn't been optioned this year

He was on the DL. He does have one option year remaining, though. Obviously that means if they option Dickerson for ten days now, they can’t use that option next year whereas optioning Gomez now leaves more flexibility next year since both still can be sent down.

They could avoid the situation by sucking it up and going with 12 pitchers for a couple series.

Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.

by TheJay on Aug 19, 2010 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh Noes!

http://www.twitter.com/mykenk

by Mykenk on Aug 19, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Needs more panicked running to and fro

Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.

by TheJay on Aug 19, 2010 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Prosterity?

how are your glands treating you?

by PagsBrewCrew on Aug 19, 2010 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Hit and miss.

http://www.twitter.com/mykenk

by Mykenk on Aug 19, 2010 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Awesome

How about making Peterson the other head?

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 19, 2010 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or DM

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 19, 2010 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ah gotcha

I saw he had a lot of games in AAA and assumed he had been optioned. Looks like he had a Jody Gerut type rehab until Cincy found a way to dump him.

Is there a good webiste or way to find how many options a player has left?

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 19, 2010 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Brewerfan has them for the Brewers' 40-man roster

link – not sure where you can find it for other teams. There used to be a Canadian site that listed every player’s transaction history for years that was good for figuring them out on a player-by-player basis but it’s not available anymore.

Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.

by TheJay on Aug 19, 2010 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would agree

but, he broke one of the small bones in the hand/wrist. He didn’t merely bruise it.

"The Milwaukee Brewers' line score is starting to resemble an international phone number" - Pittsburgh Pirates Radio during 20-0 shutout - 4-22-10

by MadtownTim on Aug 19, 2010 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

okay...

then actually I can see sending down Cain. He’s awesome and all, but his option has been burned this season already, and it’s not like we actually give a crap how many more games we win this season. In fact, it COULD improve our draft position to not have Cain on the team.

by PagsBrewCrew on Aug 19, 2010 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

True.

I think at this point, they’ve gotten a good enough look at Cain at the MLB-level to know what they’ve got… a potential starter for CF next season. Sending him down now would allow him to continue playing regularly… plus, it’s only for the next couple weeks.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 19, 2010 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

You got that a little wrong

a potential the starter for CF next season

(Barring pickup/trade)

by BrewCrewBrian on Aug 19, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think they seem him as a candidate to start next season.

But I don’t think they can (nor should) really judge him based on 41 PAs.

His performance right now is impressive, but there’s no way he’ll put up those kind of numbers in a full season.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 19, 2010 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd prefer they judged him on these MLB PA rather than the 50 or so PA he'll pick up in spring training.

Solid prospect, has been playing well both in the minors and now in the majors. It at least makes sense to give him the starting job.

Ryan Braun: He loves it.

by SRB on Aug 19, 2010 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

No

it makes sense to make him the favorite. Not to hand it over to him. Obviously these ABs will get more weight than ST, but there’s not going to be very many of either, so there’s a lot of judgment involved. No one’s saying he’s not going to win the job, but he should at least need to earn it through something other than the other guy being terrible.

http://www.twitter.com/mykenk

by Mykenk on Aug 19, 2010 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hasn't he already earned it? He's been amazing in a spring training-sized sample.

I’m not saying the team will or necessarily should guarantee him the job, just that it would be justified if they did.

Ryan Braun: He loves it.

by SRB on Aug 19, 2010 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Obviously hypothetical

but what if Gomez works out like a fiend in the offseason and suddenly starts raking in ST? What if Cain falls off the map for the rest of the year and ST? You shouldn’t look at a player in a vacuum and say “This guy is starting for us at x position”, you need to look at who else you have available and make a decision from there.

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Aug 19, 2010 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

If that happens...

I see them starting Gomez and sending Cain to Nashville to start the season or backing him up.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 19, 2010 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Didn't Gomez rake in spring training this season too?

If Cain falls off the map then yeah, reevaluate, but he has been consistently good and it makes sense to consider him the starting CF next year unless something dramatic changes.

And I say that as a self-avowed Gomez fan.

Ryan Braun: He loves it.

by SRB on Aug 19, 2010 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

what if he shows up to camp 300 lbs?

or has lingering health issues?

I don’t think even Braun should have the starting job handed to him. Nor do I think he should have to fully earn his job on spring training alone.

by PagsBrewCrew on Aug 19, 2010 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok, now these scenarios are just getting ridiculous :)

By “give him the starting job” I mean in the same sense that Braun has a starting job next season. Obviously if either one shows up in a wheelchair or something, they shouldn’t put him in the outfield.

Ryan Braun: He loves it.

by SRB on Aug 19, 2010 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I assume Gomez will play winter ball

Cain might, too. While the competition is sketchy, I’m sure raking in winter ball helped McGehee earn a role on the team last year if only suggesting his spring training was not a fluke.

Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.

by TheJay on Aug 19, 2010 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cain's gotten plenty of ABs in the two previous Spring Training

seasons. Anything is possible, of course, but as I’ve said before here, I’ve seen him play in AZ both seasons. He’s the real deal. He may get sucked into a trade deal. But given the team’s situation in CF, for now Cain is a lock for next April’s opening day.

Statistics: A bunch of numbers looking around for an argument. G. Burgy, Rockville, MD

by heybatterbatter on Aug 19, 2010 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Plus, I'd still rather see him & Gomez in the OF together.

It’s lonely in this camp, but, whatcha gone do.

http://www.twitter.com/mykenk

by Mykenk on Aug 19, 2010 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Move Hart?

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 19, 2010 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or braun.

http://www.twitter.com/mykenk

by Mykenk on Aug 19, 2010 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

To where... 1B?

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 19, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Many, many more oppurtunies at first.

Scooping balls out of the dirt isn’t something that you can just pick up in spring training, I’d reckon.

by Greggers on Aug 19, 2010 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Braun's problem in LF is mostly taking bad routes to balls

and most of his problems at 3B were range problems as opposed to actually fielding the ball (which he was also below average at, but by about half as many runs)

by dtmeyers on Aug 19, 2010 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

It still will take him time to learn to play 1B

Many different things to learn… how to handle a bunt, scooping balls out of the dirt, holding runners, etc.

Fielder has been playing 1B for his entire professional career and is still not very good defensively.

The other issue with playing both Cain and Gomez in the lineup is that you’re essentially replacing Fielder with Cain. That’s a huge drop in power.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 19, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Braun learned LF in the offseason, why couldn't he learn the easier position of 1B?

I really doubt they move their franchise player though.

Ryan Braun: He loves it.

by SRB on Aug 19, 2010 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

He could definitely learn 1B.

But I don’t think we can expect him to be as good defensively at 1B as Fielder is… at least not initially.

Still doesn’t address the issue of replacing Fielder’s bat in the lineup with Cain’s.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 19, 2010 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

It doesn’t really matter how he compares to Fielder’s defense at 1B, just how he compares to his own defense in LF. Braun is athletic enough that I think he could be a competent 1B.

Personally, I think Gamel deserves to be in the lineup, so this would be contingent on Gamel being a better OF defender than Braun (not a given).

Ryan Braun: He loves it.

by SRB on Aug 19, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

LF vs. 1B

Is 1B really an easier position to learn? In LF, the biggest problem is getting a good read on the ball, taking good angles to get to it and making throws back to the IF.

Granted, the majority of the time at 1B it’s simply catching throws, but there are many more things that they have to think about that could happen.

If Gamel is added to the lineup, I would think that he’d be the one who would play 1B, as that would involve only one player learning a new position… not two. Plus, they wouldn’t know if Gamel is a better OF than Braun until they started putting him out there. At that point, if he ends up being worse, you are then faced with deciding whether to swap their positions or just put up with a worse LF.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 20, 2010 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd think Gamel would have be awful not to be Fielder's replacement

Or if they decide that Gamel isn’t the guy, they’ll go with a FA. I cannot see Doug Melvin, or any other GM really, trot out an everyday lineup without a single left handed hitter, which your scenario would require

by stempke on Aug 19, 2010 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

He may be the favorite heading into ST to win the job, but I don’t think they should hand over the starting job to a rookie based on a small number of starts… particularly when they have other options available with MLB experience.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 19, 2010 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I forgot about that

Good point.

Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.

by TheJay on Aug 20, 2010 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

huh? really?

is a DL stint needed on another player to void the option? Or is that only within 5-10 days.

Is this 20 days total on the season, or 20 days at once? ie, can you recall someone every 2 weeks for one day and then send them back down?

by PagsBrewCrew on Aug 20, 2010 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

If a player is optioned for fewer than 20 days in a season, it doesn't count as an option

And the player gets major league service time for those days (which is why JJ Hardy happened to be sent down exactly 20 days before Sept. 1 last year).

So if a team optioned a player to the minors for seven days in April and seven days in August, that would not count as using an option since the player was on optional assignment for only fourteen days during the season.

The official language is:

If a Player is optionally assigned for a total of less than 20 days in one championship season, such optional assignment(s) shall not count as an optional assignment in connection with the limitation upon optional assignments provided for in Major League Rule 11©. (See Article XXI.)
For purposes of counting days on option, the date of the optional assignment shall be counted and the date of recall shall not be counted, provided that the date of recall shall be counted if the recall takes place after the start of any Minor League game in which the Player was eligible to play.

Major League Rule 11c says players get three option years. Article XXI talks about service time.

I think you are confusing this with the rule about a player having to spend ten days in the minors unless there is an injury. They are not related, though it is certainly possible both could apply to the same player’s (brief) time in the minors.

Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.

by TheJay on Aug 20, 2010 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Makes a lot of sense

unless Melvin wants Dickerson to get more MLB playing time as a tryout for next year

by warwick5s on Aug 19, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, it's 10 days of not having Dickerson

vs. blowing an option to see him play for those 10 days…

http://www.twitter.com/mykenk

by Mykenk on Aug 19, 2010 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agree entirely

Just saying that would probably be the reason if they decide to send Gomez down

by warwick5s on Aug 19, 2010 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah, I say send down C Dick

I assume he was optioned to AAA this season, or was he just on a DL rehab?

by PagsBrewCrew on Aug 19, 2010 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Gomez has two options remaining

For whatever that’s worth.

Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.

by TheJay on Aug 19, 2010 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right

They can use one this year and one next year. If they need to use one in 2012 he probably isn’t worth having on the team.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 19, 2010 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

maybe him being (to him) fake-DL'd

coupled with a young guy who will be around a few years playing his position well and hitting well will improve Gomez’s attitude and make him more amenable to coaching. Maybe he didn’t see Edmonds as a long-term threat to his job. Then again, it could result in him Salomeing.

by PagsBrewCrew on Aug 19, 2010 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Salomeing

Zig-zagging between bases in the Florida State League?

Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.

by TheJay on Aug 19, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hoff

Schelling assumes we’ll have the lead in the 9th inning. How quaint.

by PagsBrewCrew on Aug 19, 2010 10:36 AM CDT reply actions  

According to who?

I wouldnt go that far on him. If it was pre velocity decline from last year, maybe, but Strasburg is “that” guy right now.

I’d say, at this point, he has the potential to be a very good #3 starter. If his secondary stuff comes around maybe higher. But if you have to wait for 4 years for him to reach that potential, ala, Ricky Romero, I wouldnt consider that best in all of baseball.

by backtocali on Aug 19, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

is everyone a #3 starter to you?

I figure the top 30 pitchers, or most of the top 30 and another handful, will be #1s. so, you’re pegging Bumgarner as approximately a #61-90 overall pitcher? I don’t know much about him, but I’ll buy into the buzz a bit and at least put him as a #2 soon and a potential #1.

But yeah, Strasburg is the overall #1 “prospect”

by PagsBrewCrew on Aug 19, 2010 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

There's a criteria list

#1, plus fastball, plus secondary, above average change, with plus command

#2, plus fastball, above average secondary, above average change, above average command

#3, above average fastball, average secondary, average change, average command

  1. and #5, need at least two to 3 pitches, at least average command

Bumgarner has an above average fastball and a plus changeup, but his secondary pitch is only average at best, he does have plus command though, so he could be a #2….

by backtocali on Aug 19, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

But anyway. that's just what i read on Hardball Times

i tend to be gullible to pitching reports. But anyway, Bumgarner IS a very good pitcher.

by ilikeburritos on Aug 19, 2010 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Completely agree

He would instantly be the #2 on the Brewers.

by backtocali on Aug 19, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

The technical term for that comment...

is “damning with faint praise”…

"I hope your name is Rick"

by MrLeam on Aug 19, 2010 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

knuckleballers need not apply?

I think it’s unreasonable to assume that EVERY pitcher (or at least 1-3) must have an above MLB-average fastball, especially seeing as the average is determined by the average of those 1-5 pitchers. If people have a plus changeup or curveball, even if they still throw FBs slightly more, can be a very effective pitcher, especially if they’re just using the FB to throw batters off balance with regard to the next pitch.

by PagsBrewCrew on Aug 19, 2010 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wasn't it ever said that every pitcher must fit that criteria?

You’re talking about scouting players and projecting them for the future. There are always going to be guys who it doesn’t work for, nothing is perfect.

As long as you understand that its just a projection and there will be exceptions with guys who under and over perform, I think it works out pretty well.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 19, 2010 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

That seems awfully specific

Plenty of good pitchers don’t use a changeup. But yeah, when scouts talk about “#1/#2/#3” they aren’t being literal, since there are plenty of rotation #1s who aren’t “#1” quality pitchers.

Bumgarner being called a #3 makes sense to me. A prospect has to be extremely good to be considered a definite #1 or #2. For example, IIRC some scouts still consider Hellickson a #3 quality pitcher, and he’s probably better than Bumgarner.

Ryan Braun: He loves it.

by SRB on Aug 19, 2010 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

it's like "theory vs. practice"

he’s got a lot of potential, and he’s a bit towards realizing it at the 2nd half of the 2010 season
in practice he was so horrid during spring training he lost his spot on the 25-man to Todd Wellemeyer.

by morineko on Aug 19, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm selfish

Move the affiliate to Harrisburg, PA please

by PagsBrewCrew on Aug 19, 2010 10:44 AM CDT reply actions  

No no no.

http://www.twitter.com/mykenk

by Mykenk on Aug 19, 2010 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

too much sense

Also, Madison Brewers couldn’t compete with the duck blind.

by MGT on Aug 19, 2010 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

3 brewers-related teams in the same state?

I think they’d a) have issues with weather in the early season and b) have problems with not enough attendance (unless they make sure to schedule the minor league affiliate games during MLB away series I guess).

by PagsBrewCrew on Aug 19, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I can't imagine minor league baseball leagues are too eager to get back into Madison

Given the past failure(s?) of minor league ball there and the lack of a new stadium.

Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.

by TheJay on Aug 19, 2010 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

^^ This

The Mallards can’t even get the city to help-out with Duck Pond expansion. I don’t see them refurbing the old Muskie field let alone putting together a new multi-million dollar facility.

"The Milwaukee Brewers' line score is starting to resemble an international phone number" - Pittsburgh Pirates Radio during 20-0 shutout - 4-22-10

by MadtownTim on Aug 19, 2010 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think anyone in AA or AAA is looking to move their team at this point.

Huntsville may eventually consider it, but it’s at least another year away.

Furthermore, even if they were, you can’t just pack a Southern League team up and move them to Wisconsin.

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Aug 19, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Zebulon!

Don’t ruin this. The Zebulon Brewers just sounds awesome.

by dickie_thon on Aug 19, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

It does

But it’s the Carolina Mudcats playing in Five County Stadium. It’s an unspecifically located team’s dream, which makes me wonder why the Angels aren’t affiliated there.

Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.

by TheJay on Aug 19, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Are there any other

Tribes of Israel that have US cities named after them, and also AA baseball?

I know there is a Judah south of Madison. They could be the Judah Jhericurls, in honor of Rickie Weeks.

by backtocali on Aug 19, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Schaumburg Flyers have a beautiful stadium

Somehow I don’t think there would be a warm reception for a Brewers affiliate in Cubs country. I’d go to their games, though.

Go Reds! (This signature applies only through the 2010 regular season)

by ecocd on Aug 19, 2010 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd be all for it

But that stadium is pretty small for a AA or AAA team.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 19, 2010 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's and independent league team, right?

Ive been to that stadium once, pretty nice place.

by backtocali on Aug 19, 2010 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it's an independent league team

I have a feeling they would dump their roster in a heartbeat for a legit AA team if the lease allows.

Alexian Field seats at least 4,000. Given the paltry AA attendance at Huntsville, a move to Alexian Field would be a huge step up. I imagine the Chicago area would be a bit more popular with the players, too…. maybe that’s a good reason not to have it in Schaumburg. I love Alexian Field. So much cheaper than Wrigley, guys that actually want to play baseball and free parking!

Go Reds! (This signature applies only through the 2010 regular season)

by ecocd on Aug 19, 2010 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Travel would be difficult

Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.

by TheJay on Aug 19, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

From Huntsville, AB

To Chicago, IL. That would be a bit of a hike, admittedly.

Go Reds! (This signature applies only through the 2010 regular season)

by ecocd on Aug 19, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Plunkanyone

what data DOESN’T he have in that database? Dates of full moons? Seriously?

by PagsBrewCrew on Aug 19, 2010 10:55 AM CDT reply actions  

I think it's psychological.

After watching Brewers get plunked all season with no retribution, your brain is screaming at Ken Macha “PLUNK ANYONE!”.

Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.

by Yar Nivek on Aug 19, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

he of the 49 OPS+?

To replace a 84 OPS+?

I’ll bet the Reds are quaking in their boots.

by PagsBrewCrew on Aug 19, 2010 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

a catcher was 60-day'd

(but that’d just be for the 40 man, so I dunno)

by PagsBrewCrew on Aug 19, 2010 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah

And according to Tony LaRussa “He couldnt hold his liquor”

by backtocali on Aug 19, 2010 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

49?

That’s, that’s, that’s terrible. If I were staring down a 49 OPS catcher, I’d be inquiring about the availability of Kendall.

Go Reds! (This signature applies only through the 2010 regular season)

by ecocd on Aug 19, 2010 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

They must have a catcher they're trying to protect in the minors

That said, for a pennant run, wouldn’t you be willing to burn an option on a young catcher? There can only be a handful of AAA catchers worse than Feliz. Maybe they’ve got a 3rd baseman catching in AAA? I guess if they’re only planning to start him 5 times for the rest of the season, it’s not a big deal. The postseason is such a joke now that there’s no need to have more than 1 catcher on the roster now, anyway.

Go Reds! (This signature applies only through the 2010 regular season)

by ecocd on Aug 19, 2010 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Was Anderson the guy they removed from the 40 man?

Because prior to 09 he was a top 10 prospect for them. He had a pretty bad 09 to drop his status, but he was reportedly a good hitting catcher, with questionable defense. There were thoughts of moving him to 2B so as not to be blocked by Molina, before that down season. He bounced back a bit this year, but looks like his stock iasnt as high as it used to be. They also have Robert Stock down in the lower levels and he will eventually replace Molina probably.

The alternative was probably to have Allen Craig play 3B for them, and most managers would probably prefer the solid vet defensively, over the young guy who hasnt proven himself yet.

by backtocali on Aug 19, 2010 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

LaRue was removed from the 40-man

by moving him to the 60-day DL.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 19, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Feliz is not a catcher

When LaRue went onto the 15-day DL, they brought up Bryan Anderson to backup Molina.

I think Lopez’s performance at 3B made it clear that they needed to bring in someone else to play 3B regularly.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 19, 2010 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, to be fair...

Lopez wasn’t signed to be their starting thirdbaseman. He was put into that role when Freese got injured back in June.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 19, 2010 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kind of Odd

that Lopez is friends with Weeks and Fielder…Lopez has always kind of had a bad rap, for being lazy and unmotivated, while Weeks is apparently one of the hardest workers and most professional guys out there.

by backtocali on Aug 19, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Okay, I'll change my post

Why would anyone want a 3B hitting 49+ OPS? I don’t care if he’s a catcher or a 3B. There’s no reason for voluntarily taking on a man so utterly worthless and expecting him to do anything whatsoever. This is just a flat dumbass move.

Go Reds! (This signature applies only through the 2010 regular season)

by ecocd on Aug 19, 2010 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

does he look like lopez?

cuz then they could wear the same uniform and lopez can bat.

are they planning on DLing FLo? I would think that whoever their 3B is in the minors would do a better job than Feliz (at batting) and Lopez (at fielding)

by PagsBrewCrew on Aug 19, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Apparently they like their veterans...

As TheJay mentioned below… they seem to think that picking up players past their prime is a formula for success.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 19, 2010 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

He used to be a very good defender at 3B

They’ve had a few moves this year that make you wonder if they are trying to win the 2006 Series again (Suppan, Aaron Miles, Randy Winn).

Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.

by TheJay on Aug 19, 2010 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Matt Morris isn’t busy if they want to relieve 2000.

by drezdn on Aug 19, 2010 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

No one better available in FA?

And trade offers for better third basemen were either not there (aka… everyone hates the complaining Cardinals) or were asking more than they wanted to give up?

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 19, 2010 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure if I want to rec that or flag it

Card that comes before a Queen + another word for donkey = tcyoung

I still laughed at your comment.

Go Reds! (This signature applies only through the 2010 regular season)

by ecocd on Aug 19, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

HBP

Only position players on the roster who haven’t been plunked yet this season…

Kottaras and Dickerson

(Note: Gerut and Stern also weren’t plunked)

Only pitchers who have been plunked this season:

Gallardo and Parra

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 19, 2010 1:07 PM CDT reply actions  

I assume

among starting pitchers?

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Aug 19, 2010 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

ummmmmm

Coffey hurt his hand while batting, but I don’t think he’s been beaned.

by PagsBrewCrew on Aug 19, 2010 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nope... all pitchers.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 19, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

sorry

read that as “Only pitchers who haven’t been plunked this season”

Confusion over.

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Aug 19, 2010 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would feel the same if Gerut hadn't signed with the Padres.

Statistics: A bunch of numbers looking around for an argument. G. Burgy, Rockville, MD

by heybatterbatter on Aug 19, 2010 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

And with Gwynn out for the season...

it will be as if the trade never happened. Sort of.

Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.

by Yar Nivek on Aug 19, 2010 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

what does it mean to have a high floor potential?

because Jimmy Nelson’s been labeled as a pitcher with a high floor

by ilikeburritos on Aug 19, 2010 8:00 PM CDT reply actions  

Think about high ceiling. The floor is the opposite of that, like how bad a player could be.

A high floor would mean, basically, that what his least positive potential outcome may be is higher than the average prospects least positive potential outcome

If that makes sense.

I’m bad at explaining things.

by NoahJ on Aug 19, 2010 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hardball Times Top 100

Just noticed, how in the world is Caleb Gindl in the “50 Just Missed” list? Meanwhile Mat Gamel is nowhere to be found…

THT Fail.

Ryan Braun: He loves it.

by SRB on Aug 19, 2010 11:28 PM CDT reply actions  

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