Heard this: Corey Hart's extension from #Brewers, over three years, is for $26.5 million.
Buster Olney on Twitter, via Jordan Schelling
almost 2 years ago
Kyle Lobner
109 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
Not necessarily because of this deal in particular
But I want a new GM. From OUTSIDE the organization. No in-house promotions.
by Noah Jarosh on Aug 2, 2010 12:56 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
And, while I’m sure there are good, hardworking, talented people inside the organization, I’d like to see the new GM clean house and start over with a fresh perspective.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
DM kept Jack Z around, didn't he?
There’s room to keep a couple of guys around if they’re talented. But they’ve got to do what’s necessary to not only get rid of Melvin’s judgment and philosophy, but his woe is us BS about how some guys don’t want to come to Milwaukee. Part of the gig is selling the franchise and the city to free agents or trade targets, and he’s never been any good at that.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Aug 2, 2010 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, he's bad at using the flip side.
If Milwaukee is in fact a city that no major free agent wants to come to, then it should be a desirable place for buy-low candidates to take short term deals and resurrect careers.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Not as often as it could have been, though.
I won’t beat the dead horse by doing this in detail again, but if I were a GM I’d be the king of buy-low candidates and multi-year deals. You can have your $8 million/year free agent pitcher that might or might not pan out – I’ll clean out the market for cheap, fringe candidates, keep plugging new ones in until something works and odds are we’ll get the same results.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Who are you kidding? You would be the King of Spain
http://www.mlbsoup.com
by tcyoung on Aug 2, 2010 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Now that's going to be stuck in my head all day.
If someone comes out of nowhere and attempts to strangle you today, odds are it’s my wife.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
What makes you think that's going to work for more than one off-season?
Even fringe guys aren’t going to be particularly interested if they’re assured of having to compete with half a dozen other fringe guys for the same position. Unless you’re going to go only with guys who are guaranteed to not engender any interest in the other 29 teams whatsoever and who thus have no other options, in which case I’d be inclined to bet large sums of money against your “odds are we’ll get the same results” supposition.
If you want to field a AAA team, just call up the entirety of the Sounds.
by Zeyes on Aug 2, 2010 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The opportunity to play would be the key motivator.
Let’s say, instead of signing Wolf and Davis this offseason, the Brewers had gone out and signed six minor league free agent types to compete for it (or Kameron Loe, Capuano and four more). Two would have made the team out of camp. Odds are at some point this season two more would’ve gotten a shot when someone got hurt or was ineffective.
So, assuming the other two don’t pan out, that’s four of the six guys getting an opportunity to prove they belong. Some will flame out, but the occasional successes will outweigh that, because they’ll be both productive and cheap.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Except that relief pitching is pretty much the only position at which this will work...
because there are multiple, essentially interchangeable spots for which you can have these guys compete. Now, let’s consider how things will work out if you want to bring three fringe shortstops or five fringe corner outfielders into spring training… Please don’t tell me you actually believe the last couple of those guys would still be interested in signing a minor league contract to secure “the opportunity to play”. Again, there are 29 other teams, at least some of which would be highly likely to offer them a much better opportunity. And it only takes one team for each guy, and poof, there goes your business plan of stockpiling 150 fringe players.
And that doesn’t even get into other pesky real-life stuff such as out-clauses. Or have you already forgotten the song and dance the Brewers had to engage in just three months ago in order to not lose guys such as Capuano and Loe? If you’re going to play the “you’re doing it wrong” card about the front office, perhaps a slightly less half-baked alternative solution would be in order.
Best agent ever
Won an arbitration case that was probably 50-50 and have now fleeced the Brewers on an extension. If the Brewers go after Derek Lee, also a CAA client, you can bet they’ll drastically overpay in some way shape or form. (Ryan Braun is with them, though, and that seemed like a pretty good contract.)
I believe those contract details when I see them. Part of that $26.5 million is a buyout on a club option, I’d assume.
Fleeced? Really?
How much did you think he was going to get in arbitration after this season?
http://www.twitter.com/mykenk
by Mykenk on Aug 2, 2010 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
They might save money for next year.
But what are the odds that Hart doesn’t regress and is actually an above-average regular for each of the next three seasons?
Now that's great tasting chicken!
45%?
I dunno. What are they?
http://www.twitter.com/mykenk
by Mykenk on Aug 2, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
I could see him being moved to 1B
when they finally trade fielder. Gamel or Lawrie out in RF or a stopgap veteran. I like the deal.
Maybe it's just me
But seeing how Gamel has enough trouble throwing the ball from 3rd to 1st, I don’t know how excited I’d be to see him in RF trying to get a ball to 3B to avoid someone winding up with a triple.
From what I saw he has a nice glove at 3rd, so a move to 1st could actually be beneficial on both parts since he won’t really need to throw the ball anywhere, assuming flipping the ball to the pitcher on occasion isn’t an issue.
"I signed with the Milwaukee Braves for three-thousand dollars. That bothered my dad at the time because he said he didn't have that kind of dough." - Ueck
by GormanBraun28 on Aug 2, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Keep in mind
in RF he’d be replacing Corey Hart, who can’t throw anyone out either.
http://www.twitter.com/mykenk
They're paying for him to be about average, and I'd say that's a pretty safe bet.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
It's not that he fleeced Melvin, it's just incredible that he was able to convince them into signing him.
Best agent ever, or awful GM?
http://www.mlbsoup.com
Me too.
I don’t love it, but I like it.
http://www.twitter.com/mykenk
by Mykenk on Aug 2, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'll like it when...
1) they flip him for more this winter because other GM’s like the extra 2 years of control;
2) he demonstrates that this year isn’t a fluke.
Neither seems likely to me, but if either happens, it’s a good move.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Aug 2, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well, sure
if we can wait to pass judgment, I’d do that too. But first glance, i don’t hate it.
Are you gonna hate the Braun deal if his awfulness continues?
http://www.twitter.com/mykenk
by Mykenk on Aug 2, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't hate this either.
Mainly because it’s not enough money to be crippling if it doesn’t work out.
I think it’s fair to compare this contract to Geoff Jenkins’ last three years as a Brewer (where he earned $25 million). He’ll have moments where he’s worth every penny, he’ll have moments where he’ll look like an untradeable albatross, he probably won’t be backbreaking, but when he’s gone everyone will remember him as being better than he was.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Aug 2, 2010 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, that sounds pretty reasonable.
http://www.twitter.com/mykenk
by Mykenk on Aug 2, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Plus, it's really only a two-year deal
Hart probably wasn’t going to be traded in the offseason, and as you noted above, he’s actually probably making less next year.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Aug 2, 2010 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Nope.
Because it will still have been a smart move based on the data in hand at the time.
This isn’t, in my opinion. Which is why I’m not in favor of it until I’m proven wrong.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Aug 2, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Couldn't have said it better
Not too much money, not too long of a commitment, and by no means a bad player.
Even if it doesn’t work out, it’s not something that can’t be handled by other teams.
"I signed with the Milwaukee Braves for three-thousand dollars. That bothered my dad at the time because he said he didn't have that kind of dough." - Ueck
by GormanBraun28 on Aug 2, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wow
That was a wicked triple negative in that last sentence.
"I signed with the Milwaukee Braves for three-thousand dollars. That bothered my dad at the time because he said he didn't have that kind of dough." - Ueck
by GormanBraun28 on Aug 2, 2010 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
It read nicely the first time through
if you hadn’t pointed it out I wouldn’t have even noticed.
by Archibaldcrane on Aug 2, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
If you combine the signing bonus and first year, you get $7.5 million.
And I think he would’ve gotten at least $8 million in arbitration, so at least they’re saving a little bit for next year.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
That's a point, I suppose.
I’m really surprised by the limited no-trade clause, though. He doesn’t really have the kind of vet status you’d expect to get a no-trade clause and he probably had to give up at least a little $ to get it.
I guess he really, truly was serious about wanting to stay in Milwaukee with Braun, Gallardo and likely Weeks. How many players insist on having the option to stay in Milwaukee? Props for that.
by ecocd on Aug 2, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would think it gets tacked onto this year.
or split $0.25MM each of the next 4 years (including 2010)
http://www.mlbsoup.com
TH:
“Brewers GM Doug Melvin said he has spoken to the agent for 2B Rickie Weeks about a contract extension as well.”
I like Weeks, but where are they going to play Lawrie? Assuming nothing rational but unlikely happens such as Hart or McGehee moving to 1B.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
That's a great problem to have.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Aug 2, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I really hope we don't trade him.
Flipping Weeks at the deadline next year if the Brewers are out of it (hopefully they aren’t) makes more sense to me.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Aug 2, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm all for trading Weeks and playing Lawrie
Costs less, gets us something in return, and lets Rickie play for a contender. I like Rickie a lot, but after this season he really deserves to see what winning looks like somewhere else.
Assume we need X amount of pitching. Would we spend more having Lawrie, trading Weeks to save money, and purchasing that pitching, or spend more paying Weeks and getting that pitching with Lawrie.
That’s not rhetorical, I’m asking.
So does Gallardo & Braun,
should we trade them too?
http://www.twitter.com/mykenk
by Mykenk on Aug 2, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Trading guys because you think they deserve to play for a contender is a weird way to run a baseball team
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Aug 2, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Yeah
If they deserve to play for a contender, BUILD ONE.
by warwick5s on Aug 2, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
That would be nice
But you can start by hiring a GM who knows how. Barring that, it’s nice to give people who prove themselves a chance to win.
So the Brewers should trade all their good players
To give them a chance to win elsewhere.
Get a ife broseph
After showing my loyalty to the Brewers for so many years
I think I deserve to cheer for a contender. So I should probably trade myself over to being a Yankee fan.
Well, pardon me for being flame bait
But what has this season taught us about the value of a good offense?
Right. I’d argue that part of the answer involves coaching, but I think we can all agree that somewhere some pitching may be required. And in order to get it, I’m willing to part with any player on the roster. Forgive me for wishing guys well who we trade away in the process since they busted a gut for us while they were here.
Pitching. Pitching. The same thing we knew we needed last year at this time and didn’t get. Pitching.
Wishing well
I like Rickie a lot, but after this season he really deserves to see what winning looks like somewhere else.
Weeks hasn’t been traded away, so this statement seems to indicate that he deserves to play on a winning team rather than play for the Brewers.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
by sjlee on Aug 2, 2010 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't say you trade him because he's playing well
I said you be happy for him wherever he lands because he played well for us. I said you trade him (preferably for pitching) and play Lawrie because it’s cheaper.
That last sentence (which I quoted)
makes it sound that way… and judging from the other responses I’m not the only one who thought that’s what you meant.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
by sjlee on Aug 2, 2010 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Unless their 40 and unlikely to come back next year.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Aug 2, 2010 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't really understand that logic
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
by sjlee on Aug 2, 2010 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Playing the less expensive player because
We still don’t have any f*cking pitching and this is all useless rhetoric until we address that?
I meant the logic about letting Weeks go because he deserves to play for a contender.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
by sjlee on Aug 2, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't say let him go
I said play the cheaper player and trade him. Being happy for him is optional.
Too bad we can't trade for draft picks.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Aug 2, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
would be sweet if we could trade one for a sandwich pick and a 2nd round pick
by Jeo on Aug 2, 2010 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd pick Erbs and Gerbs
Too close for missiles, I’m switching to Ueck.
Haven't been there yet, but I'll work on it
Too close for missiles, I’m switching to Ueck.
Last I checked
Lawrie is still in AA, not rushing him is a really nice thing.
He becomes quite an asset: any injuries or poor play by Weeks, Hart, or Gamel (assuming he plays 1B next year), and he’s knocking on the door.
"I signed with the Milwaukee Braves for three-thousand dollars. That bothered my dad at the time because he said he didn't have that kind of dough." - Ueck
by GormanBraun28 on Aug 2, 2010 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Or 1st Base if Gamel doesn't work out.
If Fielder is dealt this offseason, Gamel will have a shot at winning the job. If he takes it, he’ll have a year to demonstrate they should deal Lawrie or clear other space for him elsewhere. If he doesn’t Gamel’s gone and Lawrie’s your 1st baseman.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Aug 2, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Lawrie
He’s playing Huntsville right now, so my guess is that he’s not projected to make the team until 2012. He’ll probably spend 2011 in Nashville. Obviously, if something happens to Weeks, that timetable would be accelerated.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
My guess is he’d be a late May/June callup assuming he finishes the year strong in Huntsville and is OK with Nashville next spring.
Get a ife broseph
I could see that if someone gets injured
but as it stands right now, I don’t think they’ll have a spot for him next season.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
If he is playing well
And has the potential to be an elite bat like Prince or Braun (which many think he may), they’ll find a spot for him
Get a ife broseph
Manager should be open
Too close for missiles, I’m switching to Ueck.
Let's start a pool.
Who will we be paying Corey Hart to play for in 2013?
Milwaukee Brewers...
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Aug 2, 2010 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I second that
"I signed with the Milwaukee Braves for three-thousand dollars. That bothered my dad at the time because he said he didn't have that kind of dough." - Ueck
by GormanBraun28 on Aug 2, 2010 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions
no one
john cussack told me the world will end by then
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Hart is like a cockroach
he will survive and get some alien or ape to pay him to hit something with a stick.
by Jeo on Aug 2, 2010 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
GormanBraun28 is confused...
"I signed with the Milwaukee Braves for three-thousand dollars. That bothered my dad at the time because he said he didn't have that kind of dough." - Ueck
by GormanBraun28 on Aug 2, 2010 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
The fact that this has only one rec is unconscionable
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
Sorry
I needed to use Google to figure out what that’s from.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Just want to point out that this does nothing to change the money situation
for next year. If anything it saves them money. They’re just setting up something like a 2 year, $19 million deal for 2012-2013. This does nothing to affect the “quest for pitching” next year, Keith Law.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Aug 2, 2010 4:18 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
But it affects the money situation in 2012 and 2013
Which play into any multi-year deal for pitching next year.
Hart’s declining defense and inconsistency at the plate, plus other, cheaper options available in the minor league system that can play RF are the major things that make me question need for a 3 year extension.
Get a ife broseph
Who else could play RF?
Cain’s bat probably needs to play in CF, guys like the Davises probably aren’t going to be ready until late-2013, and we don’t know if Gamel could realistically stick on RF. It blocks one of the likely destinations for Lawrie in 2012, but it’s not like that can’t be worked around.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Aug 2, 2010 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well you listed 3 guys...
Lawrie is probably most logical.
And we don’t know if Gamel can stick at RF, but shouldn’t that be something you figure out before giving Hart a 2 year extension?
Get a ife broseph
My take on this deal.
I am not sold on Corey Hart at this point. I am entirely enjoying his season, but I think he sucks. This deal reminds me more of the Hoffman deal last off-season, in that you have to ask yourself, “Was it necessary to make this deal”. Like most Melvin deals, this deal was definitely Canadian and probably not necessary.
1.) Does this signing make the Brewers better? — Unless Corey Hart is a fabulous pitcher, I think we have not cured what ails us. That said, I do realize that the Brewers will have to make moves that do not involve SP.
2.) Is Corey Hart likely to exceed his 2010 production? — I don’t think so.
3.) Is it possible to find a more cost-effective solution to right-field? — Probably
4.) Is it likely that Hart would be cost-prohibitive after 2011? — I doubt this. I suspect Hart’s 2011 will probably be less exciting than his 2010 — given his poor defensive play, I don’t see where teams are going to trip over each other to sign him at the end of 2010.
I don’t think that this deal is the stupidest thing the Brewers have ever done or anything like that — but I fail to see what we gained by signing him now as opposed to going to Arby’s after this season and seeing what happened.
Taking shallowness to new depths -- FtJ's blog
by Fatter than Joey on Aug 2, 2010 4:35 PM CDT reply actions 7 recs
After reading all the comments and having hours to think it over
This is pretty much where I stand now. It’s not terrible, but it wasn’t really necessary to make this deal right now.
What does it have to do with our need for pitching? Hart probably wasn’t going to be traded for a pitcher in the offseason, and by taking less than he probably would have made in arbitration for 2011, it actually frees up some money to spend on pitching.
Given that Gamel is a huge question mark to play the outfield and that this extension seems to indicate the organization doesn’t plan on moving Lawrie to RF, I’m not sure what more cost-effective options are out there. Overpay for someone like Cuddyer/Fukudome/Bautista after 2011?
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Aug 2, 2010 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Money now tabbed for Hart isn't going to pitchers
KL pointed out the Brewers may actually be getting a deal on 2011, but his $19 mill over 2012-2013 takes away money from a salary pool that could go to starting pitchers. Mind you, there aren’t necessarily any available starting pitchers worth signing, but Hart’s contract precludes us from offering a $12-$15 million / year contract to a pitcher.
How exactly does it preclude that?
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Aug 2, 2010 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't blame anyone for not wanting to go to Arby's.
That shit’s gross.
by warwick5s on Aug 2, 2010 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Blech
Too close for missiles, I’m switching to Ueck.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Brew Crew Ball
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Cincinnati
|
25 | 20 | .555 | 0 | Lost 1 |
|
St. Louis
|
25 | 21 | .543 | 0.5 | Lost 2 |
|
Houston
|
22 | 23 | .488 | 3 | Won 4 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
21 | 24 | .466 | 4 | Won 1 |
|
Milwaukee
|
19 | 26 | .422 | 6 | Won 2 |
|
Chicago
|
15 | 30 | .333 | 10 | Lost 10 |
(updated 5.26.2012 at 6:00 PM CDT)
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recent FanShots
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
