Royals to shop Grienke?
by backtocali on Sep 20, 2010 3:51 PM CDT
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MLB Daily Dish is reporting via Newsday that there is talk of Zack Greinke being shopped this year by the Royals with the reason being that they are more than a few years away, and could probably get a nice prospect package in return for him, and free up a lot of cash.
The site mentions that in the past the Brewers, Angels and Yankees have expressed interest in him in the past.
So I'm assuming lots of people here, or in Brewer fan dom as a whole, will say to jump on him to improve the team. And then the next statement might say something along the lines of "Trade Fielder for him" or "Trade Brett Lawrie for him".
My own thoughts are that the Royals wont want Prince Fielder if they are looking to dump salary, and even if they did, a Fielder for Greinke trade, for the Royals it just wouldnt be enough of a return. It would have to be Fielder AND Lawrie to get it done. And in the end, it would only improve the team by about a game for the next two years each. This all meaning that a sub .500 team maybe becoming a .500 team. Not really worth it.
And then if you were to do the deal and include a guy like Lawrie as the centerpiece but hold onto Fielder, you are on the hook for approximately $30 million more for 2011 and $13.5 more for 2012. And you wind up losing a top 25 prospect for 2012 through 2017 for the sake of becoming a .500 team or slightly better for 2011 and 2012.
Now if they were to actually pull the trigger on a Cliff Lee signing, that could get interesting. Again, we are talking about big outlays of cash, probably in the $15 million range per year at least, and he's probably going to want at least 4 years. Now they are up to $45 million more in salary for next year, and around $30 for 2012, with Braun and Gallardo becoming expensive at around that same time.
Would Doug Melvin and Mark Attanasio attempt something like this? Adding $10 million or so in salary above this years already straining number to turn the team into a contender? If the team were to pick up Greinke and Lee, and retain Fielder for 2011, they are the division front runners with about a 5 win drop off the next two years. This is the only way I see the Brewers trying to pick up Greinke if he were made available.
Is one year of playoff "certainty" worth mortgaging the entire farm system for? Zack Grienke is worth about $22 million in surplus value. That is worth a top 11-25 hitting prospect (according to Victor Wang of The Hardball Times), and given the premiums I've spoken about with other trades, that probably means the Brewers would have to throw in at least another hitting prospect in the 75-100 range, or a pitching prospect in the 50-100 range; or a couple of B graded prospects by John Sickels. Translation: Brett Lawrie, Jake Odirizzi and someone else. Probably too much to ask in my opinion.
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I would sell the farm and my left pinkie toe to see Greinke and Lee and Gallardo pitching for us next year
Too close for missiles, I’m switching to Ueck.
by theBrouhaha on Sep 20, 2010 4:12 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Wouldnt you rather have prolonged success
vs once every few or eight years?
That kind of has to be the goal of a small market team, and the way to do that is through developing and maintaining prospects. If you get the Greinke, Lee, Gallardo rotation, you either have to give up Fielder and your best prospect, or your two best prospects at least and be in very big financial trouble, and then its only for a year.
As everyone knows, I would much prefer holding onto prospects, and money, and develop for long term success vs the “one big run”.
and I would respond with
seems that that plans been tried for years with very little success.
"The Milwaukee Brewers' line score is starting to resemble an international phone number" - Pittsburgh Pirates Radio during 20-0 shutout - 4-22-10
By Doug Melvin?
I would say hes ran the club more like a big market club than a small market one.
They developed prospects pretty well in the last 10 years, but only on half the side of the game, all bat no pitching. The teams that are holding to the small market plan, and doing it successfully develop pitchers, hitters and fielders, and have approaches that are very fundamentally sound.
The Brewer approach has been all bat, nothing else (until recently with the additions of Escobar and Gomez/Cain), and they needed to go out and buy the arm they needed to get the playoff spot they sought (Sabathia).
I'm SURE doug's plan
has included not developing pitchers and fielders, because he feels allowing them to develop would not be in our best interests.
what?
by PagsBrewCrew on Sep 21, 2010 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions
You know that I'm not saying its been intentional
Obviously there have been some failures in drafting and developing pitchers. But during the Jack Z days there wasnt much of an emphasis put on drafting arms or gloves.
Add to it the attempt to bring in free agent arms for quick fixes as opposed to developing from within for the long haul, and I would say that Madtown’s comment is true, but that the effort hasnt neccessarily been genuine from a small market perspective.
To be honest
The most success I’ve experienced in my entire life has been a single playoff win. and I’d rather have one great season every once in a while than a lifetime of mediocre ones.
Too close for missiles, I’m switching to Ueck.
likewise
I would, of course, prefer to make the playoffs every year. But I’d rather occasionally than never.
by PagsBrewCrew on Sep 21, 2010 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Mediocrity isn't necessarily the result of this plan
I think the ultimate goal would be to be a team something like the Twins. They’re rarely medicore, they’re always pretty good and they’re always in the playoff race. And once you get to the playoffs, anything can happen.
My goodness.
by BrewHaHeather on Sep 21, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
This question is so old
Define success. Of course I’d rather win 90-95 every year. It doesn’t work that way with the resources the Brewers have, however. I’d much rather have a 95 win team every 5-8 years than a 80 win team in a majority of years. Building for mediocrity is no good.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Sep 23, 2010 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No
don’t trade away Odorizzi. Don’t trade away Heckathorn either.
I would rather go for fresh prospects who are cheap than someone who’s gonna cost a lot.
How about
we trade for Greinke, then immediately flip him for better prospects then we gave up.
I mean their Front office signed Kendall, I bet we could flip him!
Lee + Gallardo + Greinke is fun to think about
But not if you throw Odorizzi in. I’d say he’s as untraeable, if not more untradeable, than Lawrie.
Besides, I don’t think they could afford both Lee and Greinke while still holding on to Fielder.
My goodness.
The Brewers will HAVE to let Fielder go
by ilikeburritos on Sep 20, 2010 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions
It's just one year
we can have our creditors on hold for that long:P
by PagsBrewCrew on Sep 21, 2010 7:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I actually think trading for Greinke makes the most sense in a world where they trade Fielder
With a Fielder trade, there are some new prospects in the mid-upper level of the farm, which significantly lessens the blow of losing out on a guy like Lawrie or Odorizzi (or we could trade the prospects acquired in the Fielder trade to KC and keep most of our existing prospects). We have players (Gamel, Lawrie, maybe Corey Hart if both Gomez and Cain can stick in the OF) that can play 1B and be in the 2-3 WAR range, meaning we only lose out on 1 or 2 wins (Fielder has only been worth about 4 wins according to both FanGraphs and BRef this year). If we can get some improvement from other parts of the lineup (see Braun, Ryan or Gomez, Carlos) adding Greinke (and signing Lee) could add 10-12 wins. Whether or not that gets you into the post season, who knows. But it’s fun to think about
A three way trade probably isnt a bad idea
At least the Brewers could hold onto guys like Lawrie and Odirizzi if they shipped Fielder to a team that could afford him, and the Brewers get Greinke and the Royals get a prospect from us and big prospects from the 3rd team.
why don't we just trade them eric arnett? i mean, this is dayton moore we're talking about.
i'm fighting all the french people i can find. happy cinco de mayo!
by sowingwildoats on Sep 21, 2010 12:07 AM CDT reply actions
Idk, I'd rather see if he could improve nexgt season
from what I heard his mechanics were off
so if he improves his mechanics(which is easier than other pitching problems), then he could improve into at least a decent pitcher
by ilikeburritos on Sep 21, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions
It is much easier than other pitching "problems"
I.E. Jeff Suppan’s suck
Whatever is wrong with Parra
And Dave Bush’s overall lack of “stuff”
by BrewCrewBrian on Sep 22, 2010 7:30 AM CDT up reply actions
How are we not going to be outbid by 60% when the Yanks go after Lee
They were willing to give up Montero for him, and now they are definitely going after him this off-season as Javy Vasquez and Burnett fail.
As for Grienke, I would give up Lawrie (especially with the idea of signing weeks long term) and Oddorizzi for him. I say pull the trigger.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Do you think that Greinke alone gets them into the playoffs?
Pre-season I thought this team was an 83 win team, if this were the case, and they brought on Greinke, and retained Fielder, Greinke alone definitely makes them a playoff team. And you hold onto him for 2 years.
I think the big question would be the cost. Greinke/Fielder adds up to $29.5 million for 2011. Its $20mm off the books at the end of the year? You swallow that up with Fielders arb award alone almost, and then supass this years payroll by another $10 mm. I just think the team is in a really tough spot right now with Fielder, and payroll, and the ability to become a playoff team quickly.
might be able to
keep fielder, then dump him partway into the season if the brewers don’t look like they’re shaping up to be a playoff squad
by PagsBrewCrew on Sep 21, 2010 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions
If they put together the team that we are talking about here
DM/MA would not see them as possibly out of the playoff race until Sept 1.
by BrewCrewBrian on Sep 22, 2010 7:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Grienke alone
but you throw in a Javy Vasquez to this equation with Gallardo and Grienke. The rebound of Wolf should put this team into contention. Throw in 2nd year improvement for Escobar, a rebound from Braun and Fielder, and you have an 88-92 win team, which would work for a playoff run. I say it’s worth it.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Hey man
Hows the baby doing? 3 – 4 months old now? I remember that time with my daughter, and very little sleep….
At least they are still very little and pretty immobile. I remember thinking “gee, I wish she could just get up on her own and crawl around (because she would cry because she wanted to be held)” but now that she is walking, I am on the run ALL THE TIME chasing after her and keeping her out of stuff she isnt supposed to be in.
Baby is good
He’s a blast at this point, very alert and fun to play with. watching him discover new things every day is a blast (last week’s discovery: feet). He’s cut into my blog reading time, but sleeping has been an on and off issue for me. Then again, there’s nothing in the world I’d rather miss sleep for.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Babies are adorable
My ex-neighbor had a baby and he was adorable. he would run, scream, and drive the people downstairs insane. but adorable nevertheless. i used to play with him a lot and it was fun except for the time when he threw up on me
by ilikeburritos on Sep 21, 2010 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions
and then there was that baby in my neighborhood who's scared of me because I'm tall
by ilikeburritos on Sep 21, 2010 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
all of these people are past-tense.
Did you kill your neighborhood?
http://www.mlbsoup.com
by tcyoung on Sep 21, 2010 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
well the first baby i described moved to Minnesota
by ilikeburritos on Sep 21, 2010 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Must have been one strong baby
"The Milwaukee Brewers' line score is starting to resemble an international phone number" - Pittsburgh Pirates Radio during 20-0 shutout - 4-22-10
by MadtownTim on Sep 21, 2010 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I am hearing
Dave Chapelle’s voice from when the baby was dealing drugs in the ghetto.
"I've been banging a lot of bratwurst lately".
Uecker during the 8th inning of his first game back
You havent experienced life to its fullest
Until your child throws up all over you, or pees all over you.
Or both
at the same time. And poop.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Sep 21, 2010 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Got those two out of the way just an hour ago
I call it the exacta when you get them within 5 mins of each other
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Glad to hear it
Completely agree, nothing in the world worth more to lose sleep over. Those days are over for us luckily, now its just keeping under control.
Watch for the new words, that will be fun too. Even at 13 months I still get to rock her every night to sleep in front of the Brewer game, but this is probably the last baseball season I will be able to do that.
meh, it's gonna be a while before I get my own kid
mainly because I’m under 20 years old :S
by ilikeburritos on Sep 21, 2010 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
You never know
Havent you ever seen “Teen Mom”
(my wife watches it, not me) although the comedic value is vastly underrated.
Gotta get a stable job and finances first
by ilikeburritos on Sep 21, 2010 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
good call
also see if you can score a wife too. That helps
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
The fun part is that he watches football games just like my dad
falls asleep at halftime and wakes up in the middle of the 4th.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
by Hyatt on Sep 21, 2010 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Greinke is going to get more expensive as years pass
If the Brewers get Odorizzi to the majors and if he does well, he could sign a team friendly contract rather than a 20mil per year deal like the one Greinke will most likely demand 2 years from now. plus Greinke’s having a down year
by ilikeburritos on Sep 21, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, Greinke is a free agent in two years
And we won’t be able to keep him, and about then Odorizzi is going to be the guy we wish we had.
Given we'd trade Lee after a few months or after a season
why not do it? I mean, no one seems to hang onto the guy more than 12 months, anyway. Not serious about that, though.
I think a Lee signing would be another move classified under, “good signing, wrong team.” I’m preaching to the choir on that one.
Speaking of Lee, any thoughts as to whether he’ll insist on a blanket no trade clause so he can buy a house instead of living out of the Hilton for a few months every year?
Go Reds! (This signature applies only through the 2010 regular season)
I am sure Lee won’t be signing with anyone that doesn’t give him a no-trade clause after the last couple years he had.
"I agree but dont agree"
Kill me now
How about…trade Braun?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Sep 21, 2010 10:12 PM CDT reply actions
I'm actually not completely kidding
He’s been declining, he’s signed cheap, and he’s got a pretty decent amount of value. Wouldn’t you think he could bring ace-level talent+ to this team? Gomez in CF, Cain in RF? Brendan Katin in LF? Hart to 1B? Crazy!
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Sep 21, 2010 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions
That would be a pretty bad offensive team.
by Noah Jarosh on Sep 21, 2010 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Probably
But, if Braun continues on his current offensive decline, by the end of his contract, he’ll be quite average.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Sep 22, 2010 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions
He's not declining, he was injured.
This year, prior to getting injured:
.359 .443 .594 1.037
This summer, playing with the bad elbow:
.235 .269 .400 .669
Since recovering (Aug, Sep):
.385 .441 .592 1.033
Even with the huge injury slump this summer, he’s having a comparable year to his sophomore season. There’s nothing I’d let go of Braun for, he’s a top-tier hitter at a bargain rate, plays hard, and draws fans.
by nullacct on Sep 22, 2010 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
ISO
.310
.268
.231
.192
Two more years, and it will be league average. Then, he WILL have to hit for average to be productive.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Sep 22, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
League average is .146
Braun’s going to be in the 200’s somewhere every year. He’s certainly not going to hover at that rookie 310, not even his lordship Pujols can sustain that. Despite being weak in the elbow all summer that .192 puts him in the neighborhood of Jason Heyward and Rickie Weeks, and way ahead of Hanley Ramirez. I’ll take it.
braun has such insane natural power
i dont know if you have seen him play but he is so physically strong; his strength isn’t atrophying until he becomes juan pierre. even though he has stopped slugging like he did as a rookie he still has the magic
You may have missed
this post about Braun’s power.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Sep 22, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
No concern whatsoever.
He’s done what he had to do to survive long-term, which is build some plate discipline. Give him some time to adapt and bring power to bear while still being disciplined at the plate and his SLG and OB% will rise equally. He’s only 26, he’s got a long way to go yet before his peak production years. If he still had his 4:1 K/BB ratio when he was 30 he’d be on his way out of baseball.
by nullacct on Sep 22, 2010 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
DId you read that article?
He gave up power production for plate discipline, which has actually COST production.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Sep 22, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
And what I'm saying is
Give it time and he’ll end up with both. He’s still a skinny young kid, give him time.
by nullacct on Sep 22, 2010 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
So it's an irreversible trend?
Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.
From the "Casey McGehee's not a fluke" school of thought?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Sep 22, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Or, the alternate title
“Even with an established trend, its possible it will stop, even though its not as likely, but I’m going to root for the less likely outcome!”
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Sep 22, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, I guess we'll just have to see if Braun is out of the league by 30
Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.
Because that's what I said?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Sep 22, 2010 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, it's an established trend
So by 30, he should be slugging under .300. I don’t think anyone will pay him to do that.
Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.
I'd say it's impossible that Braun could suddenly forget how to hit
But then again, Bill Hall did at his age
I actually agree.
This whole thing is pure speculation and in my opinion he’ll do better and not worse.
Excuse me?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Sep 22, 2010 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions
well
you said you thought we could play brandon katin, who sucks, in this hypothetical trade of braun, over mat gamel, who doesnt
Oh right
I was just having a difficult time understanding and taking anything you say seriously. I’m not sure why.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Sep 25, 2010 12:53 AM CDT up reply actions
1) You may want to have your sarcasm detector checked
2) You obviously weren’t made to take a Comp Lit class in high school.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Sep 25, 2010 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I've never read anything by Joseph Conrad.
I don’t think he was ever even mentioned in any lit classes that I’ve taken between high school and college.
haha heart of darkness
i can’t believe i missed that; i hate to be a hater but i never liked conrad at all, i enjoyed the end of the book but conrad is no malcolm lowry for sure. my point stands, i have a better name than you and although i appreciate your literary interests i dont feel you should hate on a brotha for this
I don't know who Katin is
But I’ve seen this Gamel character, and have yet to see any evidence that he doesn’t suck.
Yeah, 15 whole at-bats this year
Cut him!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Cheeseandcorn on Sep 25, 2010 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Nah, trade him.
We have plenty of bats, and from all accounts he fields no better than the motley crew we have: Trade him.
A .314/.393/.520 line in AAA this year says the Brewers should give him a shot here.
by Noah Jarosh on Sep 25, 2010 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
I get it that some people are all in love with a prospect, but get over it.
We don’t need more AAAA hitting. We need pitching, and until we get it we are going to keep fielding the most exciting losing team in the league.
Prince is gone, probably at the all-star break in 2011, but if we’re in contention he may not get traded at all. Gamel is blocked and doesn’t field well anyway. He’s potentially got more value to someone else than he does to us, and that’s the criteria for a good trade candidate.
Trade him. Get pitching.
I'm sorry, that sounded crappy. Didn't intend to be dismissive:
What I’m saying is that even if Gamel ends up being just as good as we hope, it still benefits us to trade him for quality pitching if it is available.
You say both that Gamel is blocked and Prince is gone.
So who is going to take Fielder’s spot at first? Gamel had a .760 OPS in the majors last year over 148 PA with inconsistent playing time. It’s tough for any player to hit well when they can go a week or more at a time without an at bat, so his numbers last year should be encouraging.
by Noah Jarosh on Sep 25, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Craig Counsell had a .766 OPS part-time too. Felipe Lopez was .855 in limited play. And yeah, Gamel could turn out to be a really awesome offensive weapon someday, it’s true. But that’s all the more value he has that we don’t need that we could trade for pitching.
Unless you’re ready to argue that we’re better off with Gamel than Hart or McGehee, there’s really no argument – we need pitching more than we need more hitting. We should trade him for what we need to win.
I could argue that Gamel may potentially be worth more than Hart.
But right now, I’m curious: Exactly what kind of pitching do you think the Brewers could get selling low on Gamel? Another number five starter?
Why "selling low"?
Are you so sure that Melvin is incapable of getting comparable or better worth for his prospect?
Also
If Gamel’s numbers this year were good enough to demand a major league job, how is it selling low? I would think a guaranteed major league player with six years of team control is pretty valuable.
Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.
youre forgetting the katin factor
we already have the next brewer outfielder star. its AAA lifer brandon katin, nashville sounds home run champino
You're calling Gamel AAAA hitting?
That’s a serious lack of insight into how good of a prospect Gamel was and is. If you can get fair value for him, go for it, but don’t just trade him to trade him.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Sep 25, 2010 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Brad Nelson...
Never performed before AAA, and was a no-field 1B. Gamel has hit at every level of the minors, and has athleticism and room for improvement on D. That’s not a fair comparison at all.
gamel has a major league track record
he was an above average offensive player in some playing time last year; already proven somewhat
welllll
gamel hit for about league average his rookie year while getting fucked with constantly by macha (ken lives to fuck with people~), a pretty decent thing, plus he has legit prospect ability and so will only improve. don’t act like he’ll be a statue in the outfield either, he’ll be alright and i think you are just being absurd.
if we trade gamel for pitching all that will happen is the brewers will get somebody totally awful like sergio mitre (im overexaggerating a little, more like bronson arroyo) or something stupid along those lines. then we can all toke up in 2016 and talk about how great mat gamel has been for some other team and how happy we are we gave up on him for some shitty oldster.
I honestly wish you'd saunter back over to OV
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Sep 25, 2010 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
It looks like the Cardinals released Felipe Lopez
Now everyone who wanted him re-signed can again begin clamoring to sign him!
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Sep 21, 2010 10:15 PM CDT reply actions
They sent him home
granted, he was only on a one-year contract, but he’s still on the roster.
"The Milwaukee Brewers' line score is starting to resemble an international phone number" - Pittsburgh Pirates Radio during 20-0 shutout - 4-22-10
Really?
Lopez was granted his unconditional release prior to Tuesday night’s game against the Pirates.
I could be reading that wrong, though.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Sep 22, 2010 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I hadn't read that report
Throughout the day, several other outlets were reporting it as “sent him home”…It’s basically the same thing as he was on a one year contract anyway.
Seems he didn’t enamor himself to the StL brass either:
“He was late yesterday, and it’s not the first time,” Mozeliak said. “Tony [La Russa, manager] and I spoke earlier today, and when you think about what we’re trying to accomplish here — we brought up a lot of young players with our September callups this year — we just wanted to make sure they understand the message that they want heard. It really came down to a tipping point, and it was either just not play him or allow him to go home. And we thought it was in his best interest just to be able to move on from here.”
La Russa was much more circumspect in discussing Lopez, saying simply that there wasn’t going to be any playing time for him, and so it did not make sense to keep him around. In fact, La Russa only said initially that Lopez had been “sent home,” not that he had been formally released.
“We didn’t ask his opinion,” La Russa said. “We discussed it as an organization and decided that over the last two weeks, the starts are going to go someplace else. Bench time, as far as coming off the bench, is going to go someplace else.”
"The Milwaukee Brewers' line score is starting to resemble an international phone number" - Pittsburgh Pirates Radio during 20-0 shutout - 4-22-10
He's still a good utility guy
He can hit, he can play anywhere but catcher, and he’s an excellent second baseman. He’ll find a job somewhere.
Let's not get carried away here
Lopez is about average defensively over his career as a 2B, not excellent and below average as a SS. He is 30 and has only had a couple good years as a hitter. His line this year, .310/.340/.650. Not pretty. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him surface somewhere but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him out of the league either.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
OBP/SLG/OPS FWIW
Folks reading it as AVG/OBP/SLG would have wondered why you’re bashing the guy’s output :D
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Sep 24, 2010 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Also
+4 per TZ over his career at 2B, -1.3 UZR/150; -46 and -10.8 at SS.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Sep 24, 2010 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah I should have specified.
Thank you.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
In unrelated news
The Brewers will be shopping Prince Fielder
The Cubs will be shopping – everyone
The [insert team] will be shopping [insert player with only 1-2 years left on favorable deal]
The [insert team] will be shopping [insert player with unfavorable over paid deal]
The [insert team] will be shopping [insert player with who is blocked at natural position]
by Saberilliterate on Sep 22, 2010 11:00 AM CDT reply actions
Wait wait, I got this offseason madlib!
Royals, Greinke
Astros, Lee
Brewers, Gamel
"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
why would they trade him
if gamel gets traded the brewers will probably get dogshit in return, like joe saunders or something absurd like that. nobody values him as highly and accurately as milwaukee i think, and he wont be blocked when prince is traded
Personally, the only reports I've heard on his year in Nashville
were from his manager Don Money. He leaves very little doubt as to what he thinks of Gamel (not good).
Everyone thought the minor would collapse without LaPorta also (.222/.308/.357). Bats we got. Pitchers we don’t. BTW, how’s Michael Brantley doing?
"The Milwaukee Brewers' line score is starting to resemble an international phone number" - Pittsburgh Pirates Radio during 20-0 shutout - 4-22-10
sounds like you need to read more reports
cause finding his milb stats isn’t hard, and he has totally mashed shit in AAA. he has proven hes a major league hitter last year. all he needs is a chance to play. who cares what some oldster loser thinks about gamel? i care about his stats and theyre gonna be good when he starts for us next year (let us pray).
michael brantley is doing pretty well i hear, he has strong potential for cleveland as a juan pierre clone (not that i miss him at all). you shouldn’t be all results based; besides, laporta hasnt even proven anything yet. the sabathia trade was the right move at the time and it looks better in retrospect with laporta but you know results based analysis in baseball can be dumb
if you identify as someone who should be offended by that
you identifying with a weird group; i am not dismissing the opinions of eldery-americans, given my regular support for ken macha in the tracking poll~. i’m just saying, don money is prob. some old dude who hates young people and shit getting on his lawn. he’s a minor league manager which is what you’d expect, old dogs who have been around forever and only like david eckstein. im dismissing a very specific type of oldster, not all of them
If you're dissing Don Money
As a specific type of oldster who likes the David Eckstien type of hustle & attitude player, then you’re dissing me. I’m all about the hit & run, stealing bases, good defense, solid pitching, and defensive hitting. I don’t like punk kids who think hitting 30 homers excuses poor fielding, trash talk and 200 strikeouts.
And it remains to be seen
If Gamel has an “attitude problem” or not. Odds are he’s just young and fighting to prove himself, and he’ll mellow out eventually.
i dont judge players myself
but if that is how you feel you are entitled to. nobody loves carlos gomez more than me, so i too can appreciate these virtues.i agree that gamel doesn’t create problems with his personality (for all i can know).
Sitting on the fence?
who cares what some oldster loser thinks about gamel? i care about his stats and theyre gonna be good when he starts for us next year (let us pray).
you shouldn’t be all results based… you know results based analysis in baseball can be dumb
http://www.mlbsoup.com
And one line makes your opinion completely useless to me
who cares what some oldster loser thinks about gamel?
You went from quirky interestingly named poster to completely idiotic with a few key strokes. Continue on saying that performance based evaluation “can be dumb” while basing your evaluation on, ta-da, performance…Yeah, you did yourself no favors.
"The Milwaukee Brewers' line score is starting to resemble an international phone number" - Pittsburgh Pirates Radio during 20-0 shutout - 4-22-10
i appreciate you complimenting my name
i meant it in two different ways, that was my mistake; let me explain. i mean, when you consider something in baseball, i dont think you should always be focusing on the end result of it, like trading hardy for gomez. hardy has been worth like 3 WAR this year and gomez not even 1, but i wouldn’t call the trade stupid because gomez was/is legit worth taking a chance on at the time despite his failed 2010 campaign. i just mean you gotta account for luck and not credit people too much for that.
i think you guys are too personally attacked by being talking negatively about oldsters bums, i’m not talking about any of you, i’m talking about people who think jon heyman is the greatest baseball writer and that rbis are the most important stat and lament young people just don’t get it. ken macha is an oldster who i think is above this, given that he seems to understand the utility of advanced stats and for some reason really likes rickie weeks (who has awesome hair)
I take no offense to your comment...
I think it’s un-founded and generally stupid, but I take no offense to it.
But when a well-respected member of the Brewers franchise says that Gamel has no willingness to work or improve his craft, I have a tendency to listen to him.
There’s no arguing that Gamel can hit, at least to a very serviceable level in the majors. However we have a team full of players like that. At this point in time, there is no spot for him and I’m not 100% sure that his ego could handle getting “relegated” to playing 1st base when Fielder leaves. Other than that, he doesn’t have a spot as there’s no DH in the national league.
"The Milwaukee Brewers' line score is starting to resemble an international phone number" - Pittsburgh Pirates Radio during 20-0 shutout - 4-22-10
well
i dont know why you would care that much about minor league people, they seem insignificant to me, but yeah, gamel doesn’t want to play first and would prefer outfield, but i dont think he will literally cry in real life over it if he was put there (dont think he will be though)
so
you’re of the opinion that new major leaguers materialize out of thin air whenever you need them?
Gamel isn’t a quad-A type. He’s a legit MLB player of the future, provided the organization doesn’t f*ck him up too much along the way.
by PagsBrewCrew on Sep 28, 2010 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with a lot of your post
But recently the farm has gone under a bit of a transformation.
Pitchers we got (Rodgers, Jeffress, Odorizzi (sp?), Heckathorn, Scarpetta), the only bats with upside is Lawrie and Bat Gamel.
I am not saying that all of them will workout, but we dont know 100% that Gamel/Lawrie will either.
by BrewCrewBrian on Sep 27, 2010 7:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Jeffress will be a dominant bullpen arm
If Rogers can get a better command and a more refining at the minors he can be a great #3 starter with #2 upside, Odorizzi would be a nice #2 starter behind Yo but with his command and above-average pitches he should have a very high ceiling. Heckathorn would be a (Clay) Bucholz-esque pitcher who can pump the fastball into the mid-90s and gets a lot of GBs. As for Scarpetta, I’m not sure
by ilikeburritos on Sep 27, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I think if Heckathorn was Buchholz-esque
he would be getting a lot more attention. He should be a decent #3 starter, but not quite Buchholz.
My goodness.
by BrewHaHeather on Sep 27, 2010 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
i think predicting prospects mostly is a waste of time, but
yeah if you throw as hard as jeffress does there is no way you won’t succeed in the bullpen. sergio santos with the white sox was a shortstop like a year ago and now he is a fairly good reliever for them, and he doesn’t even have the amazing second pitch jeffress has got with his curve. seeing that shit is sick.
sick shit, yo
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Sep 28, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
why must you troll me
sigh, look at this troll. guffaw. trollbait. you try and fail offend me and countless other hipsters in the process, troll. guffaw.~~~~
hey pot, what color do you think that kettle is over there?
same color as this text perhaps?
by PagsBrewCrew on Sep 28, 2010 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions
well
two wrongs dont make a right! there is no point in it anyways; its just shitposting. my posts all have exact points that are very important.
gee
I don’t know how I could get along in my life without seeing those points, seeing how important they are and all.
by PagsBrewCrew on Sep 28, 2010 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
You come off as an ignorant ass
Then, you may want to come off that way.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Sep 28, 2010 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions
im not ignint, dawg
i just talk in all lower case letters (in real life as well) so you don’t like my terrific stylings ;( its alright you will get used to it
Yes, the lower case letters are the problem
Glad we could get that behind us…
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Cincinnati
|
25 | 20 | .555 | 0 | Lost 1 |
|
St. Louis
|
25 | 21 | .543 | 0.5 | Lost 2 |
|
Houston
|
22 | 23 | .488 | 3 | Won 4 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
21 | 24 | .466 | 4 | Won 1 |
|
Milwaukee
|
19 | 26 | .422 | 6 | Won 2 |
|
Chicago
|
15 | 30 | .333 | 10 | Lost 10 |
(updated 5.26.2012 at 6:00 PM CDT)
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