Fingers vs. The Ax
by nullacct on Sep 8, 2010 11:22 AM CDT
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Ok, so Fingers has his number retired and I thought that was kind of odd, seeing as how he only played for the Brewers for a few years. I like Fingers as much as the next guy, but I don't understand the criteria. Was it simply because of how awesome he was when he was here and that he ended his career here? Anyway, that got me thinking and I wondered how Fingers' awesome year in 1981 stacked up against Axford's performance this year.
Clash of the 'Stache
Fingers had a hall-of-fame year in the strike season of 1981, winning the MVP and CYA on the way to having one of the best years for a closer ever. He finished with a 6-3 record and 28 saves in 47 appearances.
Axford has come out of nowhere this year to have a remarkable rookie season. With a couple of weeks of play remaining, Ax has appeared in 43 games and posted a 7-1 record with 20 saves.
There's more similarity here than just facial hair I think. Ax is having a Fingers-like season as a closer. Comparisons:
Fingers
W/L: 6-3
Saves: 28 (5 6 BS)
ERA: 1.04
WHIP: 0.87
SO/9: 7.04
HR: 3
*IP/S: 1.46
IS%: 26%
Axford
W/L: 7-1
Saves: 20 (2 BS)
ERA: 2.34
WHIP: 1.20
SO/9: 11.16
HR: 1
*IP/S: 1.28
IS%: 27%
Looking into the numbers, these were two totally different kinds of closers. The Ax is a guy who can shut down the opposition for an inning with pretty good regularity. Fingers had a lot more stamina - 30 of his 47 appearances were for more than an inning, and four of his appearances were for more than three innings. His longest was on April 29 when he came on in relief of Jim Slaton with 2 out in the 9th in a 0-0 game and pitched through the 13th inning before giving way to Easterly.
Fingers sometimes pitched multiple innings on consecutive days (he saved both games of a doubleheader on 8/16) and rarely got longer breaks, but the Ax has only gone past one inning in 11 of his 43 appearances, and has gone unused on occasion for five or more days at a time.
The real deal is where you can put a pitcher out there and they give up nothing and completely shut down the opponent down for at least an inning in a close game. The comparison for perfect appearances (1+ inn, 0.0 WHIP):
Axford: 11 of 43
Fingers: 10 of 47
Considering that '81 was far and away the best season that the HOF Fingers ever had, is this Axford kid better than we thought or does his mustache pale compared to the legend?
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Flesh and bone are no match for cold sharp steel.
Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.
by Yar Nivek on Sep 8, 2010 1:31 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
yeah, I just realized you were probably expecting silly pictures
so here you go.
by nullacct on Sep 8, 2010 2:59 PM CDT reply actions 7 recs
i think ip/s is misleading
because of context. in the axford era, it’s unusual for a closer to go more than 1 ip. in the fingers era, it wasn’t. so could axford have done that? maybe.
btw, agree that it’s odd that fingers’ number was retired, but i guess that’s what happens when you don’t have enough good players… :/
Yeah, I was looking more at that
I was wondering if it was a role change for him when he came to Milwaukee, but it wasn’t. On occasion he pitched 3-4 innings with the Padres also. It’s pretty incredible to expect the 9th inning guy to come in for the 5th or 6th and finish out the whole game. Fingers pitched a lot of multiple inning saves, but not many where he was seeing the same guys in the lineup a second time around, usually just 2+ IP.
I think it's a little bit of both things...
Fingers won the top two awards in the AL in ’81 and was the best closer in the AL that season. In addition, he helped the ’82 team that went to the World Series (despite missing the post season).
You can’t directly compare Axford to Fingers… since they are pitching in two different eras. Fingers was the best closer in the AL in ‘81, but despite Axford having a great season, he still isn’t the best closer in the NL.
BTW – Does anything think that Hoffman will get his number retired by the Brewers?
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
even though he had save# 600 in Milwaukee
he played mostly in San Diego. So I doubt it
by ilikeburritos on Sep 9, 2010 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Heh...
I would agree, except that there’s been some handwriting on the wall (so to speak)…
He was the only Brewers player on stage at the statue dedication for Bud Selig that didn’t play for the Brewers when Selig owned the team.
The poster in CF.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
how many saves were blown (vs opps) in the 9th by fingers vs Axford in that season?
I don’t think it’s fair to group fingers’ BSes that happened in the 7th with Ax’s total number.
6 blown saves total, not 5
BS 05/09 – 0.2 IP – 8th inning with 0 out – HR to D.Revering and 2 singles – replaced by R.Cleveland (L) 6-5 in 12 inn.
BS 05/29 – 1.2 IP – 8th inning with 1 out – 2-run HR to J.Rudi in 8th (W) 5-4
BS 05/30 – 0.2 IP – 9th inning with 2 out – 2-run HR to D.Evans – surrenders run in 10th for (L) 7-6
BS 08/10 – 1.0 IP – 9th inning with 0 out – RBI single by R.Manning (W) 5-2 in 13 inn.
BS 09/19 – 2.2 IP – 7th inning with 1 out – 1B and 2B drive in runs (W) 11-8
BS 09/22 – 2.2 IP – 7th inning with 1 out – single to J.Rice scores inherited runner (W) 10-8
Appearance data
Possibly the comparison would appeal more to some people if they had WPA data to view:
It's tough to say
Because at the time, Fingers was the cream of his crop. He set the bar for closers for years to come, and was simply as good as they came at the time.
Nowadays, closers are asked to do things slightly different, more efficiently maybe. Not to say Axford isn’t having a great year, I think we’ve definitely found something special with him, but with so many failed starters being used as closers now, it’s tough to compare since everyone packs a much bigger punch.
It’d be like trying to compare Bob Gibson to a pitcher today: did Gibson’s ERA make him a better pitcher than someone now, or would you take a guy like CC Sabathia because he can just blow it by guys and give you lots of innings?
Maybe that’s a bad comparison, but I think for what Fingers brought to the table in 1981, it was going above and beyond the call. Now though, it’s almost what’s expected, but certainly good to see Axford call back to our famed closer 30 years before him. I think because of career credentials, Fingers wins this round, but Axford is just getting started, who knows where his career will go from here.
"I signed with the Milwaukee Braves for three-thousand dollars. That bothered my dad at the time because he said he didn't have that kind of dough." - Ueck
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