Wednesday's Frosty Mug
Some things to read while giggling.
The Brewers and Cardinals are in St. Louis and ready for tonight's Game 3, but there's a strong chance the weather is going to be the story today. It's raining in St. Louis this morning and the weather is expected to remain poor throughout the day, creating a strong chance tonight's game will be postponed. @craigcounsell has an updated prediction. Of course, the forecast for the east coast is much worse.
When the two teams finally do take the field, there's a chance Carlos Gomez will be patrolling center: The Brewers are discussing making a change out there for the night to improve the defense. They won't admit it, but preventing a Nyjer Morgan-Chris Carpenter rematch is likely also a consideration. With that said, Morgan says the playoff stakes are too high to let any hijinx take place. The Washington Post has a look at how Morgan has adapted to his new home in Milwaukee.
Unfortunately, Morgan didn't handle himself well all day yesterday. SFGate.com says he walked out of a radio interview after being instructed not to curse on the air. (h/t Baseball Nation)
Regardless of when the game is played, the Brewers will need at least one road win this week to force the series to return to Milwaukee. Jack Moore of Disciples of Uecker has a look at the 2011 Brewers' road performance, and makes a good point regarding how our perception of this team is shaped by a fair number of performances from players who are no longer here.
Yovani Gallardo is scheduled to take the mound tonight, but a rainout would complicate the Brewers plans for his use later in the series: If games 3-7 are played without an off day, then the chance to bring Gallardo back on short rest for Game 6 would be removed and he'd have to go on short rest to work Game 7. Tony LaRussa has already said he'll use Chris Carpenter on short rest if needed. Gallardo, by the way, narrowly edged out Ryan Braun for Brewer of the NLDS.
Once the two teams finally take the field, there's an above-average chance one of them will be hit by a pitch. Plunk Everyone reports that the Brewers have been hit once every 101.9 postseason plate appearances, the fifth most in major league history.
Elsewhere in bad pitching: Jeff Suppan is scheduled to throw out tonight's first pitch, and Jim Edmonds is on the schedule for tomorrow.
And, as is typically the case, tonight's game has a strong chance for inane baseball commentary: Jeremy Blachman of NotGraphs had me laughing out loud at my desk this morning with a collection of things that have already been said about this series.
Another thing you can count on: infield shifting. Adam McCalvy has a look at the high number of defensive changes the Brewers have made this season.
As noted in this morning's edition of Today In Brewer History, today is Casey McGehee's 29th birthday. Todd Rosiak has a post on McGehee's effort to stay positive despite his diminished role, while Jerry Hairston Jr. feels his pain. Lori Nickel has a story on Hairston's relationship with his dad, longtime major leaguer Jerry Hairston Sr.
Nickel also has a pretty good story today on Ron Roenicke, looking at his personality shift from his somewhat hotheaded time as a player to his current, more even temper.
Elsewhere in profile stories, Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun spent some time with John Axford and his parents for a story on his meteoric rise to major league stardom. Mike Bauman of MLB.com also has a look at the Brewers from Canada.
In the minors:
- Three Brewers appeared in yesterday's game and Tyler Thornburg pitched a pair of scoreless innings in Peoria's 3-2 win over Phoenix. You can read more about that in today's AFL Notes.
- Logan Schafer was held hitless in Arizona yesterday, but Jonathan Mayo of MLB.com listed him as one of four potential "professional hitters" in the prospect league.
- Rattler Radio has an update on some Brewer prospects playing in the Baseball World Cup.
It almost goes without saying that tonight's game, like nearly 200 before them in 2011, will be broadcast on WTMJ with Bob Uecker and Cory Provus on the call. Duane Dudek of the JS has a look at the Brewers' partnership with their flagship station.
If you'd like more Brewer coverage today but you're sick of reading, check out the archive of my appearance on the Appleton Post Crescent's Clubhouse Live last night with Brett Christopherson, Ricardo Arguello and Mike Woods. This was my debut appearance on the show and I feel like it went really well.
Finally, our condolences go out today to the family of longtime Brewer groundskeeper Gary Vanden Berg. He passed away yesterday, ending a year long battle with cancer. He was 59.
Around baseball:
Orioles: Removed reliever Jeremy Accardo from the 40 man roster. He's expected to become a free agent.
Pirates: Pitcher Charlie Morton may not be ready for Opening Day following hip surgery.
Royals: Claimed pitcher Aaron Laffey off waivers from the Yankees and designated pitcher Jesse Chavez for assignment.
Yankees: Pitchers Raul Valdes and Scott Proctor have both decided to become free agents.
While the Brewers were off last night Detroit and Texas played Game 3 of the ALCS, with the Tigers winning what's quickly becoming a war of attrition. This morning's edition of Around the MLB Playoffs has an update on the condition of outfielder Delmon Young, catcher/first baseman Victor Martinez and third baseman Adrian Beltre.
Today in baseball economics: As the sports world watches the NBA struggling to reach a new collective bargaining agreement, TwinsCentric notes that MLB is on deck. The current CBA expires on December 11.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to find a way to sell fewer magazines.
Drink up.
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Speaking of inane, one thing that has always bugged me.....
Whoever coined the phrase “meteoric rise”? I’ve seen meteors, and not one rises. They all fall.
Free Saito-Hugs for everybody! - SRB
Grammar Fail
Not one has ever risen.
Free Saito-Hugs for everybody! - SRB
by PriceT on Oct 12, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jack Moore
has me convinced. Let’s sweep the Cardinalidae!
Today's lesson in on-field gestures:

Classy. Respectful. Sublime. A profound reminder of the inherent and transcendent beauty of athletic greatness.

Brash. Disrespectful. Disturbing. Needs to be covered under the FCC’s obscenity rules, if it isn’t already.
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 12, 2011 11:13 AM CDT reply actions 13 recs
Heh. But Pujols' is religious!
Yeah no, I’m on your side on this one.
by Pegasus on Oct 12, 2011 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Also completely respectful to the game of baseball and not showboating or showing up opponents...

by kmals on Oct 12, 2011 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
To be clear...
This was mostly meant in jest as the regimes are clearly different and meant as light ribbing against Cards fans who speak in hushed tones about tradition, history, the right way, blah, blah, blah. I love the wizard and have no problem whatsoever with him or his flips.
I got what you meant
I just wonder how long some of these Cards fans have been fans, you know? Do they remember Ozzie Smith when he was still able to do that sort of thing?
I bet a lot of them remember Ozzie
They just put his backflips and the Brewers’ stuff in different mental categories, according to how TLR, the team, and the local media have conditioned them to think.
Ozzie’s backflips: Fun, exciting, shows how happy he is to play the game (which they were – and so are the Brewers’ celebrations). Brewers: Brash, arrogant, cocky, disrespectful. It’s essentially the same behavior – it’s all a matter of perspective.
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 12, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Context...
You guys clearly don’t remember much about Smith’s flips. He ONLY did them on opening day at home when the Cardinals took the field for the first time. It had nothing to do with on-the-field performance, it was a celebration of the beginning of the baseball season. You guys act like he did that after turning a double-play or on some routine basis. He did it once a year.
Episode VI:
Return of the Troll
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
by Rubie Q on Oct 12, 2011 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Uh oh guys, mpfische is here to lecture us about our memories again
You’ll have to take this up with the folks at VEB – they went over this yesterday.
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 12, 2011 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I like the part where the guy says that he doesn't mind Beast Mode, silly as it may be
But he has a deep hatred for the Brewers because they untuck. On the scale of classy sportsmanship, how does untucking get trumped by beast mode?
They are quite the line drawers over at VEB.
They should be judges.
How many times more do I have to talk about Mike Cameron's father?
The most frustrating aspect to all of this, is that it is true. Mike Cameron’s father did return home from work, and you didn’t have to tuck in your shirt all of the time in that household. It’s frustrating.
Did people freely throw Mike Cameron’s name around whenever they wanted to find an easy way to justify something, because he’s Mike? I didn’t get really interested in baseball until 2007, so someone should let me know.
I would think someone would believe it because it is true.
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Oct 12, 2011 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think a lot of them know about the connection with Cameron's father
They just don’t care.
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 12, 2011 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I wish they would care!
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Oct 12, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I wish more people would care about the starving children in America
unfortunately, if it doesn’t impact them, they don’t. This is the crux of the problem: the only time untucking impacted Cardinals fans, is when the Brewers beat them. Regardless of the fact that it was a gesture to honor one of the players’ fathers, they don’t give a shit. It just reminds them that they lost.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 12, 2011 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
For the record...
If I’d known that you didn’t care if your memories or perceptions were accurate so long as things fit nicely into your world view, I would have never attempted to correct your thoughts on Ozzie’s flip. And, by the way, I don’t care if you play the whole game with an untucked shirt and/or supplement beast mode with faux vampire teeth. I think the tension created makes for a more entertaining on-the-field product.
Your fellow Cardinal fans disagree with your memory
According to the VEB link Cheeseandcorn gave above.
Glass houses and stones and what-not.
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
2-time BCB Fantasy Baseball Champion
by GoGregGo on Oct 12, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
That was not the conclusion...
People disagreed about how many times a year, but it was never DURING a game or in celebration of a victory.
I guess the image above is different though?

I hate Yuni.
by BrewCrewBrian on Oct 12, 2011 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Albert needs to do a flip.
I think I would pay to see that, too.
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Oct 12, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
Ozzie Smith is really irrelevant, because there’s a guy currently on the Cardinals who does a celebration every time he gets on base that, as the picture above shows, isn’t really much like Beast Mode.
I feel like the guy from those old Gordmans commercials: IT’S THE SAME THING!
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 12, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Whoops
I meant, “isn’t really much different from Beast Mode.”
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 12, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes. This.
Sorry to this thread for getting us off topic by posting the Ozzie flip. The best examples of the hypocrisy are the current examples of which there are ample.
by kmals on Oct 12, 2011 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Obviously....
You’d rather just mindlessly bash STL…whatever memory or idea is convenient is employed…truth be damned.
Enough already
Believe it or not this site is usually on topic unless something useless comes along to talk about.
by 5toolz on Oct 12, 2011 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Get a blog.
You can call yourself Rambling mpfische.
by Zorakathura on Oct 12, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Doooooooood
No one here has a problem with anything Ozzie Smith did. We have a problem with fans (and media members) who celebrate it when their own players express exuberance and joy on the field yet call it disrespectful and douchey when their opponents do. That’s all this boils down to.
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 12, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
Fair enough...
And as far as the AP religious “celebration” versus the beast mode “celebration,” I don’t know if they’re comparable. I don’t think AP’s is designed to get a response from the crowd or his teammates. That said, religion in sports is terrifically annoying. Whether its Kurt Warner or Albert, I always want to scream at the screen, “You self-consumed ass, God doesn’t care about your athletic performance!!!!” I mean assuming he even exists, God probably has other things on his mind than a baseball game in the middle of America. But who knows, Albert also claimed that his last $100 million was a “loan” from God. What a dipshit.
by mpfische on Oct 12, 2011 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
Albert Pujols is a dipshit.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 12, 2011 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Ok this guy is kinda getting annoying
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
For the record...
Nobody here has a problem with Ozzie’s flip. It’s the fact that the same fans who celebrated it, hate other celebrations.
by tcyoung on Oct 12, 2011 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't see why anyone would have any problem with on field celebrations. I thought Ozzie's Backflips were great, I think Beast mode is great. As long as you aren't mocking the other team and are just showing enthusiasm I think it's good for the game.
I have no concept.
by menchkins on Oct 12, 2011 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Anything Ozzie does will always be totally cool by me
That guy was the man.
But yes, the double standard is not lost on me.
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 12, 2011 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
YES!
I was pretty much always the Cards in RBI Baseball. They were so good in that game.

by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 12, 2011 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Biggest time waster
And possibly most bizarre website in the world, dedicated to RBI baseball:
Get a ife broseph
I love the sound design in this game.
Both I and II are very “sparkly.”
(I don’t know why, but that’s one first adjectives I usually think of to go with RBI Baseball I & II. Maybe it sounds better than ‘punctualistic.’ Or something…)
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Oct 12, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It is my understanding
That Ozzie Smith hates Tony Larussa, so he gets points in my book.
REWIND YOURSELF!
Inside the Boston collapse
I linked to this Boston Globe story in a fan shot but I’ll add it here because its a pretty interesting read.
Excerpt:
Drinking beer in the Sox clubhouse is permissible. So is ordering take-out chicken and biscuits. Playing video games on one of the clubhouse’s flat-screen televisions is OK, too. But for the Sox pitching trio to do all three during games, rather than show solidarity with their teammates in the dugout, violated an unwritten rule that players support each other, especially in times of crisis.
It almost feels as though this entire article wrote itself.
Or, that the author had something written already and was just waiting to fill in the right names. It was really strange to wake up and read that this morning with the radio people in the background musing about which condo Theo and his family should pick out (and then something about Kenny Willams and a restaurant. Hazy at best.)
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Oct 12, 2011 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Suppan throwing out the first pitch is a masterful piece of trolling on behalf of the Cardinals.
I’m not even mad. I’m impressed.
fka "warwick5s"
If the Brewers are inclined to troll back
if the series returns to Milwaukee: Get Seth McClung to throw out the first pitch of Game 6.
(Brewers DO have a 2006 Cardinal on staff, who I’d like to see throw out the actual first pitch of Game 6. That would be nicer.)
Troll them back
The tarp that took out Vince Coleman throws out the pitch for game 6
Johnny Cueto karate kicks out the first pitch in game 7.
REWIND YOURSELF!
by drezdn on Oct 12, 2011 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Shingles could also throw out a pitch.
REWIND YOURSELF!
by drezdn on Oct 12, 2011 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
too far
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 12, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm talking about
Fritz “Shingles” McGhee, the famous negro league player who is so unsung, there’s no mention of him on the internet.
REWIND YOURSELF!
by drezdn on Oct 12, 2011 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Unlike the Cards bullpen
Brewers:
2011 NL Central Champs!
National League #2 Seed
Franchise record for wins
by molitorfan on Oct 12, 2011 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ha
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 12, 2011 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
They could always throw the first pitch into the Cardinals' dugout
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
by mnbrewer on Oct 12, 2011 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
The Brewers
Have just announced Don Denkinger will throw out the first pitch for game 6.
REWIND YOURSELF!
Best recommendation
Have Greinke catch it to keep the royals connection there.
by Bertwerst on Oct 12, 2011 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Interesting story by Amy K. Nelson on ESPN.com
The Cardinals have moved the Brewers’ families from their customary section behind the plate at Busch, putting some of them in suites down the right-field line and scattering the rest throughout the stadium. And apparently the Brewers are pissed, even getting the union involved.
If it is indeed standard practice everywhere to put family members behind home plate as the article says, this seems like a bush-league move by Cardinals. (I wouldn’t be surprised if it were at least partially a response to the emphatic gesturing toward family that some of the Brewers do after big hits – after all, it’s tougher for Prince to do Beast Mode to his kids if they’re somewhere way off in the second deck down an outfield line than if they’re right there behind the plate.)
That being said, this is really something that the Brewers should be handling privately, rather than complaining to the press about it. Come on, guys, don’t stoop to their level.
You can still buy tickets on Cardinals.com
So its not like they don’t have room to sit them.
As far as Brewers being pissed – if they’re pissed, bring it up. Who cares?
Get a ife broseph
My take is that Nelson mostly cooked that up.
According to the Cardinals, they’ve been doing that for years in the playoffs with no complaints. Nelson fished for the quotes, because ESPN is pushing the bad blood angle as hard as they can, got enough to go on, and wrote it up as a “controversy.”
So I don’t think it’s the Brewers running to the media so much as it’s the media just being generally shitty.
by Pegasus on Oct 12, 2011 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Also, sorry, I'm not going to Cards-fan up your blog.
Just an especially irritating story. Don’t know why two good teams playing each other for the pennant isn’t a good enough narrative for them.
by Pegasus on Oct 12, 2011 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
no problem
i think constructive commentary is generally welcome here, though, you know, context is important.
by Capt Science on Oct 12, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
It also helps that he's not a douche
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
No argument there
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
OH YEAH?
well furcal is a poopy butt.
i'm fighting all the french people i can find. happy cinco de mayo!
by sowingwildoats on Oct 12, 2011 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
hurtybutt?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 12, 2011 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Haha
Well played.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 12, 2011 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
It's cool.
I seem to recall having seen your name on somebody’s “List of Cardinals fan posters who are alright”
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
It's been a tactic that's been used before though
The Marlins complained about the Indians pulling it during the 1997 World Series.
Yeah, good take
Were anonymous sources really necessary for that article? Jeebus.
Seems like she framed most of her questions about keeping the families protected and players responded with the obvious “Yeah, we want them to be safe…”
Wouldn’t 3 private boxes accomplish that? Don’t really see the big deal here.
Get a ife broseph
Yeah, I could see that.
Nelson hears in passing or off the record that the Cardinals aren’t seating the families behind the plate like usual and that the Brewers have talked to the union about it. She wants an on-the-record quote to illustrate how upset the Brewers are and spice things up, so who better to go to for general craziness than Nyjer Morgan?
I still think Nyjer should’ve kept his mouth shut, but we all know that’s not gonna happen, and as you said, the whole thing really isn’t that big of a deal anyway.
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 12, 2011 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Nyjer Morgan has family in attendance?
I feel like we would have heard from them if that were true.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Oct 12, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't say he did.
I was unaware that he did, which is another reason why it’s odd that he’s the main Brewer quoted in this story. (Narveson makes sense, since he’s the union rep.)
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 12, 2011 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Or the Uecker seats
(he’s a legend, take HIS seats!)
Lets comprimise
Put the women in the Dew Deck, the kids in the Uecker seats
I hate Yuni.
by BrewCrewBrian on Oct 12, 2011 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
What. will. Chris Carpenter . . . tell - - -
- – - his SON?
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Oct 12, 2011 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Nothing, his son will be too far away to hear him.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
Other acceptable response
is to win the next three and not invite them back to Milwaukee.
by placidity on Oct 12, 2011 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 13 recs
they can sit wherever
but the fans can report them via text to get them booted
He’s actually underrated, but that’s another can of worms…
haha so awesome
‘I think she’s on some kind of drugs, officer. She keeps cheering for the wrong team, and when I say “Pujols, you’re going to hell”, she hit me. What the hell?’
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 12, 2011 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Rain Postponement
If the game is postponed, I think it works in the Brewers’ favor. If it’s pushed back, Yo and Carpenter will both pitch Game 3 on Thursday, and most likely Game 7 (Monday) on short rest. This means both teams will probably have to use their bullpens in a potential Game 7, and that is much better for the Brewers than the Cardinals.
The problem is that you can’t skip Marcum’s start on Sunday, if need be, by pitching Gallardo on short rest.
Here's what I'm wondering
If the game is postponed, should the Brewers bump Greinke up to Game 4 to keep him on schedule? Or should they keep Wolf in Game 4 and Greinke in Game 5? Or does it not even matter?
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 12, 2011 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I think it will depend on the outcome of Game 3
Up 2-1, pitch Wolf. Down 2-1, pitch Greinke.
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
2-time BCB Fantasy Baseball Champion
Don't you think you'd want to tell Greinke (and Wolf) whether they'd be pitching
Sooner than 24 hours before the game?
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 12, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I seriously doubt that RR would keep the guys in suspense if he was going to do that.
He’d either tell them both that one of them was going to start or simply lay his plan out there.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Hmmm.
I like this for the simple fact that Grienke is available to cover Game 7 innings on short rest if YoGa struggles early. That’s when he’d throw a bullpen anyways, right?
Absolutely.
It’d definitely be a side benefit.
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 12, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you bump him up
On schedule, could possibly throw in Game 7 if needed. Not sure there is much benefit in pushing him back.
Get a ife broseph
Well, not really
Going down 2-1 isn’t a really big deal. Not good, but not do or die. Going down 3-1 would be bad, but even then you only have to win Game 5 to get back home.
Right I agree, but if have a starter ready to go, you pitch him
Don’t think you can play the “well, its OK to lose this game” type mentality. If you can win it, you have to go for it.
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Oct 12, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
As if the pitching situation wasn't already complicated enough, now you have rain delay drama
If the teams are sure they’re only going to get 2-3 innings in before a rain delay, neither of them will start their aces. If they’re going to get 5-6 innings in, then both teams have to throw their aces – this would heavily benefit the Brewers since (a) Carpenter is sure to go 7-9 innings (b) the Brewers bullpen is 1000% better than the Cards bullpen for the last 4-5 innings. That would also serve to all but guarantee short rest starts for Game 7.
Sooooo, open question to the board. If you feel there’s a 90% chance that the game goes 3 innings before a rain delay that will cause the starters to sit, who do you send to the mound? Wolf and Narveson are both available tonight.
If you feel there’s going to be 5+ innings player, who do you go with?
If the game gets out of hand early one way or another, do you take out Gallardo/Carpenter at a 70-80 pitch count to save them for Game 7?
So many angles.
I think you have to start Gallardo regardless of how long you think the game will go
Its too big of gamble to start an inferior player because you think there will be a rain delay. If you’re wrong it probably costs you the series.
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Oct 12, 2011 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ah, but if TLR doesn't start Carpenter, do you start Gallardo?
I wonder how that works. Can they change starting pitchers after they’ve seen what the other manager is doing? then again, there’s nothing saying you can’t have Gallardo/Carpenter go out there in the 1st inning, throw one pitch and come out of the game.
So many games.
And TLR will play all of them.
He did this earlier this year in a sure rain delay situation – started a scrub, then had his real starter go after the delay was over. Totally outsmarted the opposing manager.
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 12, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd be shocked if TLR doesn't start Carp
Same situation with the Yanks/Tigers last week – you have to start your best pitcher in case the game isn’t delayed.
Even if he doesn’t start Carp, you still have to pitch Gallardo. Since playoff games pick up in whatever inning the delayed happened in, its not like Gallardo’s innings wouldn’t count and the Brewers could jump to an early lead against the backup pitcher (or vice versa).
Get a ife broseph
Right
This isn’t the time to get cute. Go with Yo. I think it’s a good ploy in the regular season, but it’s not worth it to start someone other than Yo only to get down early again. Plus, if you start someone else, you’ll have to remove him after a delay. If the delay is short enough, there is a slight chance that you could just keep Yo out there when the game resumes.
by Bertwerst on Oct 12, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I doubt they'll start it if they don't think it will have a chance to finish
So I would expect a 120-minute delay before a postponed game. Even if they do start a game in the 4th inning, I’d rather have Narveson 1-3 and Gallardo for 4-9 than 1-3 for Gallardo and 4-6 for Narveson.
The short rest start availability, though, is a point in favor of starting Gallardo regardless. I guess I agree with you, after all.
Either way
it’s not an easy call. I hope the Cards outsmart themselves. Like you said, there are SO many angles.
Yeah, if you know for a fact the game will only go 3 innings
Sure, but you don’t – that’s a big gamble that it will be delayed and the delay will be 120 minutes (or whatever…)
The Brewers have a decent and rested bullpen, even worst case scenario Gallardo only goes 3, you could patch together 6 innings pretty easily.
Let the Cards start someone crappy and the Brewers can jump on him early. If its 5-0 going into the rain delay, would the Cards even bother starting Carp after the delay, or save him?
Get a ife broseph
It's looking like if there is going to be any rain delay, it will be at the beginning of the game, rather than the middle.
Weather changes, though, so I could be wrong.
from Joe Posnanski's "10 Worst cContracts of the Year"
Sorry if this is old news or a little off topic….
According to Baseball Reference WAR, Alfonso Soriano actually contributed more defensively (0.7 dWAR) than offensively (0.6 oWAR) in 2011. And I think that pretty much says it all.
To make certain posters happy: Let's post positive things about the Cards
Lance Berkman seems like a decent guy.
REWIND YOURSELF!
Ryan Braun attended school with John Jay.
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Oct 12, 2011 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Jon. Not John, I mean.
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Oct 12, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed - I love that Johnny Cash's 'Run On' is his walkup music
Also, Johnny Cueto shouldn’t have kicked that guy in the head. That was a really bad thing to do.
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 12, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
And
and then the Ace-Bob
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Oct 12, 2011 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure his outfit is "interesting" in a way that would necessitate further discussion...
But it is interesting. I enlarged the image, and still could not see which manufacturer produced this shirt.
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Oct 12, 2011 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
The bird on their uniform is pretty.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 12, 2011 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Tinyballs
Did everyone miss this or just me? Thought it was to good not to ask.
by 5toolz on Oct 12, 2011 2:47 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Haha that's hilarious
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 12, 2011 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Does it rhyme with Gark NcNwire?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 12, 2011 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I posted this before
but here’s another
"[Baseball moguls] must truly believe that all their fans are scholars of the game who would resent having their concentration on the great pageant about to be played out before their very eyes distracted by anything as dull as, say, fun and laughter." --Bill Veeck
by MKEtotheATX on Oct 12, 2011 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nicely done!
I guess I should maybe pay a little closer attention.You could even spin that with a Cub wannabe approach.
I'm okay with that. Good numbers against Carpenter and they will need all the offense they can get tonight.
I'm not
He shouldn’t be hitting second, and defense takes a huge hit with him in CF.
Get a ife broseph
yeah, what happened to going with better defense?
since the problem so far has been in run prevention, let’s just punt on that with our best pitcher on the mound. huh?
by Capt Science on Oct 12, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Apparently the "better defense" decision
also went out the window with “better offense”.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Not to mention 7 of those at-bats came in 1999 or 2000
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
2-time BCB Fantasy Baseball Champion
RR apparently couldn't handle the responsibility of my approval
Back to disapprove you go Ron.
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
2-time BCB Fantasy Baseball Champion
What the hell, Ron?
I spend all year defending you, and then you go and do this?

by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 12, 2011 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is why I spent all year stressing out about him
because he doesn’t seem to learn.
Although if Kotsay goes 4-4 with the game winning RBI, he looks like a genius.
Whatever.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 12, 2011 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
FFS
Money Order, Kotsay. RRR realizes he has to win AT LEAST one, if not all of these games, right?
I don’t give a damn if Morgan and Carpenter hate each other. If you’re going to start a LHB, you start Morgan.
So idiotic.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 12, 2011 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
And Kotsay has a -58 UZR/150 in CF this year
I don’t give a damn what Morgan and Gomez are batting in meaninglessly small sample sizes against Carpenter, Kotsay doesn’t belong in CF.
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
2-time BCB Fantasy Baseball Champion
by GoGregGo on Oct 12, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Yep
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 12, 2011 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
But what stats do you want to cherry pick?
vs. pitcher lifetime, or 2011 stats vs RHP?
Pick one, make a case.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 12, 2011 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry
I’m actually not trying to argue for starting Kotsay, I was just looking up everyone’s numbers.
REWIND YOURSELF!
Yeah I didn't think you were
just that its easy to cherry pick stats to make a case. Its one of the things that upsets me about RRR. He’ll take hitter vs pitcher stats to make a case, regardless of season-long hitter vs. RHP/LHP stats. Which is assinine.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 12, 2011 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I also don't see how Morgan and Carpenter hating each other is relevant
Maybe Carpenter will throw at him, providing us with a base-runner. Maybe Morgan will charge the mound and get them both ejected. That would also be good.
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
A TLR style manager would totally try to do this
Try to goad Carpenter into flipping out.
Counsell could go out and tap Molina’s pads (CC seems like he would be a gritty fighter).
REWIND YOURSELF!
Yeah
I mean what’s the real downside?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 12, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Its been 15 minutes, and I still don't get it
I don’t mind him over Morgan/Gomez at the plate, its the total lack of defense in what will likely be a low scoring game.
Get a ife broseph
If I'm Mark McGwire
I just tell them their #1 goal in every at-bat should be simply to put the ball in play, no matter where. This is one of the least rangy defenses in modern Major League history.
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 12, 2011 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Cardinals' D is a lot better than the Brewers' D tonight.
Freese = Hairston
Furcal > Yuni
Punto > injured Weeks
Pujols > Fielder
Holliday > Braun
Jay > Kotsay
Berkman < Hart
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 12, 2011 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
disagree
Freese = Hairston
Furcal >>>> Yuni
Punto > injured Weeks
Pujols > Fielder
Holliday = Braun
Jay >>>>>> Kotsay
Berkman << Hart
I hate Yuni.
by BrewCrewBrian on Oct 12, 2011 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, our outfield defense will be as bad as theirs tonight, I guess...
by kotsaythebuzzkill on Oct 12, 2011 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions
don't forget our infield
so yovani just needs to strike out 27, right?
by Capt Science on Oct 12, 2011 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
No, He can get 21
K-rod: 3
Ax: 3
Done
I hate Yuni.
by BrewCrewBrian on Oct 12, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions
might as well start mcgehee
get the worst defense out there and celebrate his birthday
by Capt Science on Oct 12, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Inexcusible
I want to vomit. Why not start Marcum tonight, too, if you’re not even going to bother to try to win the game? Go to hell, Roenicke.
by ecocd on Oct 12, 2011 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
ha
what has worse defense? the move or tonight’s starting lineup?
by Capt Science on Oct 12, 2011 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Man... that's a tough one.
I can’t believe RR is stupid enough to do this. We’re now banking on Gallardo pitching a complete gem against a team he’s struggled against and The Crew being able to hit off of Carpenter.
I have no concept.
Pirates declining Maholm's option. He was pretty damn good this year aside from his awful W-L record.
I have no concept.
True
but his option was worth $9.75M. I think that is ultimately the rationale for letting Maholm go.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
"Something good always seems to happen when he's in there," Roenicke said of Kotsay. "If Nyjer was swinging the bat well I wouldn't even have thought about this."
Boy, those are some harsh words from a “player’s” manager. And for someone who thinks Marcum has been throwing the ball well, I’d have thought he’d find Morgans bat to look red-hot.
Yeah, here's a pattern I've noticed this year:
1. RR makes a decision.
2. I become concerned about the decision.
3. RR explains the decision.
4. I become convinced that RR is an idiot.
Every time he explains his thinking I feel worse than I did before.
Also, “something good always seems to happen when he’s in there” suggests that back when Stephen Colbert used to say that real leaders don’t think, they just go with their gut, RR missed the irony, not to mention the name of the channel he was watching.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 12, 2011 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
My take on it is that something(s) has/have happened and RR is done with the T. Plush nonsense.
So maybe he was never all that concerned about defense, and just doesn’t want Morgan out there. It’s the only logic pattern I can make sense of, that no matter what he wanted the left handed bat, but Nyjer is no longer an option. And if my memory isn’t failing me, Morgan had 2 gaffe’s in the big inning that cost us big, of course we remember the catchable looking double from Pujols, but I think it was earlier the same inning that he dropped a shallow single while diving. Maybe RR thinks it was a focus thing, and if you can’t trust him to give you defense or offense, then you go to Kotsay. I don’t know, I’m really not trying to defend the decision, just figure out how the hell he got there.
by Andrew Heidke on Oct 12, 2011 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If he had just come out and said...
… Nyjer’s scuffling (which he sort of did say) and Kotsay hits Carpenter well, I could have lived with that. I wouldn’t have liked the move, but at least that would have been some evidence of a logical thought process. Basically he’s saying he’s got a good feeling about playing Kotsay in what will likely be the most pivotal game of this series. I don’t like managers who turn their brains off when the pressure’s on.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 12, 2011 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I dunno
“If Nyjer was swinging the bat well I wouldn’t even have thought about this.” Sounds like an even more blunt way of saying exactly that. Plus it seems really out of character for Ron to be that publicly down on a guy.
by Andrew Heidke on Oct 12, 2011 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, that's a justification for not play Nyjer
It’s not a justification for playing Kotsay. Gomez is the crystal clear no doubt 1st CF off the bench. You need to have a damn good reason to go with your 5th outfielder when your 4th outfielder is healthy. When your 5th outfielder was the 4th worst defensive center fielder in all of baseball that reasoning had better be “he’s hit 8 HR in 10 AB against this guy.”
TSSC is right. RR is playing a hunch in the 2nd most important game of the season. If it’s pays off, he got lucky. If Kotsay is as miserable as he’s likely to be, then Roenicke has put his team in a position to fail and is an idiot. Either way there’s no good outcome.
by ecocd on Oct 12, 2011 6:44 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
If he brought up Kotsay hitting Carp well I'd think even less of him
What, 7 PAs against Carp since 2001?
Get a ife broseph
Not to mention the fact that Gomez has been hitting really well lately and is the best defensive player on the team.
I have no concept.
Roenicke has never valued defensive players
Only defensive positioning. Idiot.
by ecocd on Oct 12, 2011 6:45 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions








































