Melvin said moving Corey Hart to first base is not an option he'd consider.
7 months ago
Noah Jarosh
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This is a stubborn move that limits the Brewers options.
You can replace stubborn with stupid.
by Noah Jarosh on Oct 19, 2011 1:30 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Can I re-vote in the end-of-season poll now?
Just throw-away my previously-submitted ballot. What else can I super-hyphenate?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 19, 2011 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with you on this
I think anytime you fail to even consider a possible good move for the team, that’s a failure at your job.
However, Melvin’s proved he’ll say one thing and do another. I’m guessing if the circumstances allowed for the acquisition of a great RF and no other 1B options, he’d move Hart to 1B. But he might be just be holding his cards close, trying to stop us from ourselves and the endless scenario discussions we’ll have all offseason (ok, not this one, really), waiting to see what happens or just giving a quick assurance to Corey that this offseason is the same as any other for him.
by kotsaythebuzzkill on Oct 19, 2011 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Probably because Corey and his agent were like "Ooooh no, oh no you don't. There's NO WAY we're doing that"
Funny, look what happened to Michael Young and the Texas Rangers when that happened and the Rangers said “tough shit”.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 19, 2011 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Corey and his agent
It does seem funny. Why wouldn’t they want to move? Corey bulks up a bit, plays the easiest defensive position on the field, probably reduces his chances of being injured, hits 30 to 40 HRs and then get overpaid on a big FA 1B contract somewhere down the line. Seems like the kind of “risk” most players and agents would jump at.
I think because 1B are sort of a dime a dozen
and its perceived as the place you stick someone who can’t field. He has more value as a RF than as a 1B. Similar to Prince and Boras not wanting to be tagged as a DH.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 19, 2011 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions
RF isn't much better than 1B... isn't it the weakest defensive outfield position?
Streak Breakers.com
It's actually supposed to be left field.
But it really depends. People say left because left handed pull hitters are usually more threatening than righties, but there are more right handed hitters, but more GOOD left handed hitters. So iunno, flip a coin.
(Verb) you cardinals.
by Taterwithbacon on Oct 19, 2011 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Ideal OF defense
Center is center
Ideal left fielder is left-handed so his glove is on the foul line side so as to not have to go across his body on plays toward the line, and your right fielder has the strongest arm in the OF to facilitate making the throw to third base
I got goons.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Oct 19, 2011 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Braun might have terrable range but at least he has a strong arm... maybe he should move to right...
Streak Breakers.com
I don't understand how his range is so bad with how fast he is.
His reads and routes are pretty bad, but is he just sitting there and waiting for a click longer than he should and using his speed to make up for it?
fka "warwick5s"
by DEUCE SLUICE on Oct 19, 2011 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Recognizing the ball off the bat
Probably comes from not playing OF until he was in his mid-20s.
Get a ife broseph
Have you been watching the same Braun?
It might be strong, but its incredibly inaccurate. I don’t think Braun knows where the ball is going when he releases it.
Get a ife broseph
His numbers are way more valuable in RF than 1B.
Most 1B can put up Hart’s numbers. Not as many corner outfielders can.
I'm assuming he views 1B as much more difficult than RF
He’s in the prime of his career, and asking him to change positions in the offseason would require a ton of work in the offseason, and he’d probably worry it affects him at the plate.
Get a ife broseph
"30 to 40 HRs"
Unless “bulking up” includes getting the Bonds or McGwire treatment, I don’t think that’s going to happen. In 5 seasons, Hart has only hit more than 30 HRs once (31 in 2010).
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
A bit extreme?
I think playing a full season would go a long way. Since 31 is in that 30 to 40 range, I can’t see why we’d need to bring Bonds level medication into the equation. Besides, the number of HR isn’t the point. The point is- the opportunity to focus on offense while having the defensive responsibility of standing in one spot and catching the ball.
That's not really possible without knowing how much a guy like Michael Cuddyer would cost.
And since they can’t be in communication with him yet…
Is Cuddyer a better RF than Hart?
Otherwise, Cuddyer has played some 1B at the MLB level.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Not really sure.
I’m guessing they are fairly similar. Cuddyer’s UZR in right is all over the place. Jason Kubel is also someone I wouldn’t mind seeing the Brewers pursue, though he’s been awful in the OF.
If that's the case
I’d put one of those guys at 1B and leave Hart in RF.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
If you're just punting defense there
why not just leave Hart where he is and sign a righty first basemen? I’d bet on Gamel being close to either of the Twins guys, and it’s not too tough to find a righty backup. That’d probably be my first plan, and then focus on defense at short and third.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
You'd bet on Gamel putting up an OPS of around .800? I wouldn't. Certainly not in his first year snyway.
I have no concept.
Eh, I think I would
Let me phrase it this way— I’d rather play Hart in right, Gamel at first, and use $7-10 mil on a shortstop and/or 3b than to spend it all on a Cuddyer-type who is at best slightly better than Gamel. Maybe he tanks but you can probably put together an emergency platoon if necessary.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Oct 20, 2011 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'd be willing to bet on him being around .800
Low end guess would be around .725, upper bounds around .850.
Given DM's history...
Does this mean that Hart will be playing 1B next season?
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
I think he left the rest of the quote to himself
“… unless I can find a right fielder on the free agent market.”
I guess I'd like to see Logan Schafer in the equation
I think he’s supposed to be good defensively, so that would upgrade Hart, and put a (hopefully, potentially) decent LH bat in the starting lineup.
The Gomorgan platoon can handle CF.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 19, 2011 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Does Schafer have a bat to support putting him RF?
Seems like RF is the place to put someone with some pop in his bat, but isn’t very good defensively.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
I think he'd be a nice alternative to Kotsay for next year
fka "warwick5s"
by DEUCE SLUICE on Oct 19, 2011 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, please.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
Eh, who knows until you play him?
See also: Gamel, Mat; Green, Taylor; etc.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 19, 2011 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe Doug is thinking
If I open up another outfield spot then Ron’s just going to fill it with the last guy on the bench anyway, like Kotsay.
by nullacct on Oct 19, 2011 2:07 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
I'm not sure what exactly Tom H is doing here
but his actual quote from Melvin is:
Is Corey Hart an option at first base: “That’s not something we’ve talked about. I think in the past, he had said no to that.”
by The Left Button on Oct 19, 2011 3:08 PM CDT reply actions
Corey said no? So the players decide where they play now?
I guess this explains our SS situation too.
Heh
Hart dictates where he hits in the lineup… so why wouldn’t he also dictate where he plays?
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
I suppose
Wookies are know to tear peoples’ arms out of their sockets when they lose.
by nullacct on Oct 19, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Ah, I meant to Rec that, not Flag it!
Is there a way to undo that?
by Oakland Brewer Fan on Oct 19, 2011 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Sounds like maybe McGehee or, gasp, Gamel are in the mix though
What do you have in Casey McGehee: “He did have a season that regressed. He’ll be the first one to admit that. He had a big season the year before. We’ll have to figure that out. I think he’s probably somewhere in-between what he was this year and where he was last year. Can he get back to being somewhere in between? I think he can still be a good player. He can play first and third. He’ll be part of our evaluation. In Casey McGehee, you’re getting a player who won’t give up. He’ll try hard; he’s got great heart. He loves this organization. Guys can bounce back.”
What are possible internal options to replace Fielder: “I’d prefer not to get into that. We know Mat Gamel is here. I look at guys like Nelson Cruz and David Freese. And Mat Gamel has had as good a years as they did in the minor leagues. He just hasn’t had the chance because we haven’t given him the chance. Is this the time to give Mat Gamel a chance? That’s something we have to seriously consider.”
by The Left Button on Oct 19, 2011 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the McGehee reference is simply that he's available as a backup option
I don’t know if they are seriously considering him to play 1B full-time. Gamel isn’t much of a surprise though.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
It's a surprise that the org might actually consider playing him.
And Doug owned up to not giving him a chance. Kudos to him on that one, anyway.
It's nice to hear something positive about Gamel.
by The Left Button on Oct 19, 2011 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Here again, though, I'm assuming it's just PR.
Like when they talked up Lucroy as an option at catcher, then went around him and signed Gregg Zaun.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
hmmm.
I’m trying to figure out what the advantage of saying this would be. If he wants to avoid seeming desperate when in talks with another GM, or an agent, wouldn’t it make sense to say that moving Corey is always an option? Maybe he’s just trying to hold his cards close.
I'm going to be furious if they decide to give the 1B job to Gamel
and he shows up fat and shitty to spring training again. He had better BSOHL like a mother this offseason.
fka "warwick5s"
by DEUCE SLUICE on Oct 19, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Even if he's the leading candidate for 1B
no way are they going to give the job to him before ST starts.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Barring a signing at 1b or 3b...
… they should tell Gamel, Green and McGeehee in ST: We’ve got 2 spots in the lineup for the 3 of you. Play like shit and you’re riding the bench and maybe heading back down to AAA.
Now get out there and tear each other’s arms off.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 19, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course, but I consider it "giving" him the job if they don't sign someone explicitly to start at first.
He could always suck in ST and they end up resigning Kotsay or something in a panic, or have McGehee start there.
fka "warwick5s"
by DEUCE SLUICE on Oct 19, 2011 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Great. A question talker.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
On what planet
does this mean that Melvin “would not consider it an option.”
That’s just not the same thing as “something they haven’t talked about.”
Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things.
by Grim Spandango on Oct 19, 2011 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Probably.
“So, Yuni, we just traded for Jerry Hairston and unfortunately he’s gonna take over at sho…”
“No.”
“Okay, then!”
random ?
do player buyouts figure into the teams salary number for the next year? for example, yuni’s 2 mil buyout, if the crew were to not exercise his option…
many thanks :)
It does.
But it’s also worth noting that the Royals sent along $2 million in cash in the trade, so presumably that money was earmarked for this use.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Yes
but that cash, for all intents and purposes, was a -$2M on last year’s salary. On my spreadsheet, I’ve still got the $2M buyout, since it will come out of this year’s payroll.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 19, 2011 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Eh. You could put it on this year's or next year's payroll. It's pretty obvious that $2 Million equates to the buyout, but wasn't necessarily denoted as such
Some of KRod’s money, on the other hand, I believe was specifically for the buyout
Hopefully
Doug told RRR what the money was earmarked for before RRR tries to start it in center field.
Brewers:
2011 NL Central Champs!
National League #2 Seed
Franchise record for wins
Yes.
Yuni will cost at least $2m against the Brewers’ 2012 payroll, whether he’s on the team or not.
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 19, 2011 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Not a horrible plan
To completely discount it (yeah Yeah I know its a Melvin quote so take it for what its worth) is pretty silly. But the team can still contend next year with just an average first baseman.
Probably the cheaper move to simply go out and find a rh RF to platoon with Morgan in RF and move Hart to 1B.
How can they platoon Morgan in RF if he's platooning in CF?
Unless you’re thinking that they go with Gomez full-time or find someone else to platoon in CF.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
I know I'm in a party of one at this table...
… but I’m sort of hoping they explore the possibility of dealing Morgan this offseason. A meltdown is probably inevitable, and I’d like to see it happen in another uniform. He’s probably never going to have value this high again after this past year of relatively good behavior and productive play.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 19, 2011 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
The good news is it's not just you.
The bad news is it’s you and Michael Hunt.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Yeah I just changed my mind.
Michael Hunt is an idiot.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 19, 2011 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd rather be wrong than right at the same time as Michael Hunt.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 19, 2011 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wait...
That guys name is actually Michael Hunt?
Wow, he must have gotten it pretty bad in middle school.
"...just throw that pill over the plate and I'll make it happen." - Tony Plush
by thefreewheelin76 on Oct 20, 2011 7:30 AM CDT up reply actions
If we can get an interesting piece for him
I’m all for it – like you said, his value won’t get any higher and there’s only 1 more year of team control on him right?
I don’t think you trade him just to trade him (for, say, Dykstra’s kid).
by Archibaldcrane on Oct 19, 2011 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Next season (2012) will be his first year of arbitration.
So 3 years left.
by The Left Button on Oct 19, 2011 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions
He's incredibly valuable in a platoon.
As long as they continue to use him as such, I don’t think he’ll have much of a dropoff.
I also think he can actually build his trade value by keeping his numbers up next season. He hasn’t necessarily reached a cieling.
I dont know about that
You really expect him to put up another 4 WAR season in a platoon role?
I agree that platoon is the way to go with him, but I wouldnt be shocked if his output was cut in half. Still a very good season for a platoon guy to put up 2 WAR.
I think that by year end pitchers sort of figured him out a bit, and would expect that to carry over into next season and beyond. He will need to do more on the basepaths to maintain a high offensive output if his average drops into the .370 range or so.
He had a .778 OPS in September
Not sure he really got figured out, and his hitting was about the same as 2009, so its not that far out of his career norm.
His 4.0 WAR is partly a result of the inexact nature and variability of UZR, so he’ll probably be a similar player and show up lower in the WAR stat.
Get a ife broseph
A .370 average isn't good enough for you?
I suppose he does play for the Brewers, so his .370 average should be adjusted down to .220 to make up for how they all overperform.
"figured him out"?
It’s not like the guy is a rookie. He’s been playing in MLB for 5 seasons. You don’t think opposing teams didn’t have enough scouting information on him from his 1400 PAs with the Pirates and Nationals?
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
The same reason we'd look to trade Morgan
Is the same reason other teams would be hesitant to take him
Get a ife broseph
So this is my very first off-season at BCB.
I will try to be patient…. (when responding/not responding to news from the front-office).
But I don’t think I’ve convinced myself yet.
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Oct 19, 2011 5:01 PM CDT reply actions
Hart at first and signing Carlos Beltran
Is worth considering.
If CB is willing to take a 2 year deal
by Big10freak on Oct 19, 2011 6:03 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
He probably wont get it
But he is easily worth a $12 million a year type deal, nothing long term obviously, but when healthy he is still a pretty productive bat.
Would beltran be better suited to first?
He seems to get hurt a ton running, so anything to limit that would be good.
But I was seeing speculation on a yankees site that he could get a 3/42 contact? Pass if that’s the case.
When there is a scuffle in Ireland, there’s no need to specifically mention in the news story that alcohol was involved
by Getting Yosted on Oct 19, 2011 7:35 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
If that happens
then Swisher might be an option. Despite a down season, he still had a 3.8 fWAR… plus he also has played 1B.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
While exploring the inter webs
I stumbled across pinstripe alley, which made me happy to be a fan of a small market club. less bone jarring stupidity, like not wanting to bring nick swisher back on his 10 million dollar option because of paul oneil and trading granderson because he strikes out too much. Even for the inter webs that is moronic.
When there is a scuffle in Ireland, there’s no need to specifically mention in the news story that alcohol was involved
by Getting Yosted on Oct 19, 2011 7:42 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Them and 15 other teams
But he would be a type a free agent
When there is a scuffle in Ireland, there’s no need to specifically mention in the news story that alcohol was involved
by Getting Yosted on Oct 19, 2011 7:50 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
If your going to lose a 1st round pick its best to do that when your going to be getting one back for Prince.
Streak Breakers.com
I'm not sure if I saw this in Pinstripe Alley,
but I remember glancing at a fan proposal for a Marcum/Swisher trade. I wish I remember where it was! That would be quite a heist, though.
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Oct 19, 2011 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, for the Yankees
You don’t think we can find a 1B who hits .250 with a little pop for less cost than a #3 starter? I do.
by nullacct on Oct 19, 2011 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I forgot about the $ part of it!
(And about the “Hart not playing 1st” thing). I’m pretty excited about November, though, when we start making some moves!
*I also forgot about the inflated power numbers at Yankee stadium. Additionally, I’m not even sure I took one glance at Swisher’s #s all season.
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Oct 19, 2011 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, this offseason will be exiting, that's for sure
Last Xmas DM took us by surprise by swapping for Greinke, but sine we’re already in the ballpark of being a playoff team going into the offseason any moves he makes will be thrilling.
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