Thursday's Frosty Mug
Some things to read while doing what's right, for the good of mankind.
Wrap-up work on the 2011 season continued yesterday, as Doug Melvin held his end-of-season press conference. John Steinmiller has a collection of quotes from the Brewer GM, who mentioned the following:
- He won't commit to a plan one way or the other regarding Yuniesky Betancourt and his $6 million club option for 2012.
- He did, however, show interest in retaining Jerry Hairston Jr.
- It sounds like they're also going to consider retaining LaTroy Hawkins and/or Takashi Saito.
- Moving Corey Hart to first base to replace Prince Fielder is "not an option he'd consider." (FanShot)
- He talked up the minor league system, and made a somewhat erroneous point regarding Jonathan Lucroy and Alcides Escobar.
- He thinks Michael Fiers has a shot to make the 2012 rotation.
- He's not worried about Shaun Marcum, characterizing his struggles as a slump.
- He hasn't started meeting with coaches or Ron Roenicke yet, and it sounds like he won't until after the playoffs.
One topic that didn't appear to come up was Prince Fielder: Colin Fly of the AP says he declined to answer questions on the free agent-to-be.
Melvin also sat down to talk with Peter Gammons of MLB Network yesterday. You can see the video of their conversation here.
Offseason previews continue today: Nick Prill of The Brewers Bar has a look at what the Brewers need to do this winter.
Prince Fielder is unlikely to win the NL MVP award, so I guess he'll have to settle for this as a consolation prize: He's currently leading the voting by 5% in the race to be named Dayn Perry's "Good, Round Friend." Here's today's collection of notes on his free agency:
- Colin Fly says the Brewers really can't afford to re-sign Fielder unless they make significant moves to dump payroll or raise the budget over $100 million. Rickie Weeks' 2012 raise is almost $7 million.
- Roch Kubatko of MASN doesn't think the Orioles will be serious candidates to sign him.
- Don Mattingly says the Dodgers need a big bat, but doubts they'll be in the market for one.
- Venom Strikes says the Diamondbacks also should not be interested.
Elsewhere in players likely to be looking for a new home this winter: Yuniesky Betancourt made McCovey Chronicles' list of 2011's scariest free agents.
Craig Counsell is also going to be a free agent, but will likely retire. Todd Rosiak suggests the Brewers would love it if he remained part of the organization in a coaching or front office role.
Yovani Gallardo has been pitching in a key role for the Brewers for a while now, so we sometimes forget he's still pretty young. Royals Review listed him 14th on their list of the top 60 major leaguers under age 26.
Ron Roenicke took a lot of heat last week for the decision to start Mark Kotsay in center field (and deservedly so), but this is worth noting: Even after Mike Napoli's two run shot last night. Kotsay is still one of just three visiting players to hit a home run in St. Louis this postseason.
Meanwhile, it sounds like Cory Provus is still taking the loss pretty hard. Over at Big League Stew, Miller Park Drunk wrote the Brewers' detention lecture.
In the minors:
- BPSports.net has an interesting story today on 2011 Huntsville Star/Nashville Sound/Peoria Javelina Daniel Meadows and his faith. (h/t @Mass_Haas)
- Scooter Gennett had a big day in Arizona yesterday, picking up three hits in Peoria's 6-3 win over Phoenix. You can read about that and more in today's Winter League Notes.
- Baseball America is reporting the Brewers have re-signed veteran catcher Dayton Buller to a minor league deal. He split the 2011 season as a backup catcher between Huntsville and Nashville.
- Planning on carving a baseball-related pumpkin this Halloween? Then you might want to enter it in the Wisconsin Timber Rattlers' contest.
If you've seen a copy of yesterday's Journal Sentinel, then you already know that the Brewers took out a full page ad to thank fans for their support this season.
Around baseball:
Yankees: The team plans to decline pitcher Damaso Marte's club option for 2012.
I only caught a couple of innings of last night's World Series game, so I missed this the first time: If you're a Cardinals fan looking to troll on national television, you should probably know that Nyjer is spelled with a J (FanShot).
Today in former Brewers: Former Brewer Sean Berry and former Brewer hitting coach Butch Wynegar are on the list of five candidates that have interviewed for the Padres' hitting coach vacancy.
Looking for a fun offseason hobby? You could always start making pie charts. Seems to be working for Carson Cistulli.
Looking for a job for next summer? Major League Baseball is looking for applicants to spend the 2012 season in the MLB Fan Cave.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to draw the line.
Drink up.
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I hope Craig Counsell is given the role of Vice President in charge of Orange Slices and Capri Sun.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
by Yar Nivek on Oct 20, 2011 11:22 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
What I think is funny...
I went to the last NLCS game with my cousin’s husband. He said earlier in the day he ran into Counsell at a soccer game at the park. I asked him if he was handing out orange slices and Capri Sun to the players on his kid’s team, but didn’t get the joke.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
After reading the quotes from Melvin's presser
I feel a lot better about Yuni not coming back. One of the three nice things Doug was able to say about him was that “[Yuni] has never had problems on pop ups”. When that’s one of the first good things you can say about a guy, I don’t think you really want to bring him back.
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
2-time BCB Fantasy Baseball Champion
by GoGregGo on Oct 20, 2011 11:23 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm good at catching pop-ups too!
Sign me up!
Ugh, Shortstop
by theBrouhaha on Oct 20, 2011 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Ultimately, the Brewers didn't need a better shortstop to make the postseason
And he overperformed (offensively) in the playoffs so he came through when it mattered. Kind of. Whatever. He saved the Brewers $1.5-$2 million by suffering with Yuni all year and still made the playoffs.
This year, he needs the position to actually produce so I think he’ll be looking more seriously at any other available options.
by ecocd on Oct 20, 2011 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
But
I was concerned where he said something about Yuni’s performance not being bad and that he ‘didnt understand where some of the criticism was coming from’ or something to that effect.
by Tristram28 on Oct 20, 2011 12:32 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Could you imagine what people must have been thinking if they saw that sign, not knowing who Nyjer is?
who knows, maybe the guy's just an asshole and knew he was spelling it wrong
or he’s just an idiot. the guy obviously pays enough attention to baseball that he can recall a tweet by Nyjer Morgan, but doesn’t remember how to spell it after what seemed like an unbelievable amount of articles about Plush throughout the season?
what a moran.
by youngmanblues on Oct 20, 2011 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
My guess
Talk radio listener. He’s heard a bevy of complaints about Morgan but didn’t know how his name is spelled.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
With regard to Fiers
I’m assuming Roenicke is referring to the 6th-8th starters to make the rotation. I don’t see any way they would replace Narveson given his success as their #5 guy. 3rd-time-through-the-rotation aside, he had to be one of the best #5 starters in the NL. Certainly one of the best for a mid-market payroll.
They’re not going to go a second year with only needing 6 starters so having a back up beyond Estrada will make sense. The better the #7 starter is, the happier I’ll be.
by ecocd on Oct 20, 2011 11:52 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Trade Wolf for salary relief in order to have more money to fill holes.
Then you have a rotation of Greinke, Gallardo, Marcum, Narveson, ??? which probably wouldn’t be much worse than having Wolf there. Estrada, Fiers, and Peralta can all battle it out with one or two low cost veteran starters in spring training.
by Noah Jarosh on Oct 20, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
And at the ASB, you bring up Jungmann.
Honestly, I think they’ll keep all 5 starters around until the deadline, and as they fall out of contention, they’ll deal Wolf and/or Marcum for some prospects. Then they’ll bring up Jungmann. This way, they can keep Fiers, Estrada, and Peralta around in case somebody gets hurt.
They wouldn't want to burn Jungmann's arb clock if they're out of it
Plus, I think he’ll probably need all of next year and most of 2013 before he’s ready, and that’s being optimistic.
Get a ife broseph
There was talk about him being major league ready straight from the draft.
Sickels is saying he’ll be ready at mid-year. He will definitely be ready by 2013. They’ll at least wait until July to avoid Super 2 with him, but I think they drafted 2 college pitchers in order to get them up as quickly as possible.
If he cant maintain his velocity
He wont be making any quick ascents through the farm system.
It would be tremendously aggressive to start them both in AA ball this year, and the only way I could see either of them winding up on the 25 man before the end of August is if they started the year in AA ball. And even then, dominating performances there would be the only thing really allowing a call up to the big leagues.
2013 is more realistic I believe.
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they wouldn't be much worse than having Wolf out there
Wolf is a solid pitcher. We’re talking about replacing him with a pitcher that’s going to be coming up from the minors and isn’t particularly highly touted. If you get much more than replacement out of that pitcher, you’ll be happy. Any money you save from Wolf (and the Brewers will probably be kicking in some cash) will have to buy more than one 1 WAR somewhere else on the field and on the Free Agent market, finding +1 WAR for under $5 million is rarer and rarer.
I think we saw what happens to a team in the postseason without solid pitching. Going with a postseason rotation of Gallardo, Greinke, Marcum, Narveson isn’t much of a step down from Wolf, but one injury to those guys and you’re throwing a Scrub for a pivotal Game 4.
If you’re not worried about the postseason (and you probably should be for 2012), then go ahead and try to get $7 million relief from Wolf to spend on relievers, SS, 1B, 5th OF. Otherwise, I’ll keep Wolf and find someone to keep the other positions warm at the other positions.
by ecocd on Oct 20, 2011 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with this
I don’t think trading Wolf is going to yield enough to benefit the club, really. I know his year was a bit up and down, but overall I thought he had a good year.
by kotsaythebuzzkill on Oct 20, 2011 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Unfortunately, I can see how they'd replace Narveson
Narveson is arbitration-eligible and is due for a raise. If they think they can get similar production out of Fiers for ~$450K a year, I can see Narveson being non-tendered.
(Note: I don’t support this option, but it’s a valid way to cut payroll.)
never mind
I thought Narveson had 3 seasons in with all the partials before last season but he didn’t. But, yeah, I can see Narveson being non-tendered AFTER the 2012 season if they’re being cheap.
No chance he'd be no-tendered after a season like this (though I'm not sure if he's qualified)
You could easily trade him for something because he’d easily get paid more than that in the free-agent market. Even if they didn’t want to keep him, you could trade him for nothing, like the Carlos Villanueva deal.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
Trade him for nothing?
If Nieves can get a return of $1, then Narveson must be worth something
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
I certainly wouldn't trade him for nothing, that would be foolish
But there’s no sense in non-tendering him if you can trade him for nothing.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
Since I haven't heard anything about this, I just thought I'd ask...
What’s Josh Wilson’s contractual status, and will he have a role with the Brewers next year?
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
He'll be in his second year of arbitration.
I’m sure the Brewers like his versatility, but they should non-tender him because he’s not actually good at anything.
by Noah Jarosh on Oct 20, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
And will likely be making somewhere around $1MM.
by Noah Jarosh on Oct 20, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
So with JHJ theoretically filling the UT position for next year, we get rid of him, rather than giving him a minor league assignment?
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
Could be wrong on this
I believe that the Brewers would want to take Wilson off the 40 man if he’s not going to be on the team, thus allowing him to be a FA. He could leave like Luis Cruz did, or opt to stay like Boggs did.
Get a ife broseph
I am almost positive JHJ will be looking for a larger role than utilityman next year
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 21, 2011 2:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Well that brings up an interesting conundrum
if they’re talking about making JHJ the everyday SS, fine. Otherwise, you’re talking about cutting Casey McGehee to make JHJ the starting 3B. That’s a PR nightmare for a contract-year GM.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 21, 2011 2:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Why is that a PR nightmare?
And Melvin is only a contract year GM if he wants to be, his job security is among the best in baseball.
Get a ife broseph
I'd be fine with having Hairston as the everyday SS
Just not sure if he’s up to it. He’ll be 36 next season and hasn’t played a full-season since 2001. Ideally, he’d platoon with someone as well as give the other starters days off.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Youkilis
What do you guys think of trading Marcum for Youkilis? I would love to see Gamel as our starting first baseman but will be shocked if that actually happens. Since we know that Melvin and his dopey manager love veterans how about this trade.
I don't know that it's that unreasonable.
by Noah Jarosh on Oct 20, 2011 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
See below, but I would guess if you brought that trade up to Red Sox fans they'd laugh
Get a ife broseph
So they'd rather keep Youk, I would rather keep Marcum.
Shruggity.
by Noah Jarosh on Oct 20, 2011 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd rather have Youk
Mostly because I have doubts about Marcum next year and think Youk is awesome and under contract for longer. Shruggity.
Youk would be an interesting clubhouse dynamic, he’s known as a pretty big dick.
Get a ife broseph
Youk also costs $6-7MM more, and his option for 2013 is $13MM.
That would leave the Brewers with just $3-4MM to fill shortstop, utility, bullpen, etc.
by Noah Jarosh on Oct 20, 2011 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure
If the trade doesn’t make financial sense, don’t do it. If it does – I’d rather have Youk than Marcum next year. I really don’t have any idea what the payroll will be at next year.
Get a ife broseph
I have absolutely no doubts about Marcum whatsoever
And next year you’ll laugh at your own suggestion of trading him.
Marcum sounded genuinely confounded at his postseason failure
I think it will haunt him, which isn’t a good thing, but I don’t think he was covering up an injury. It sounds like a combination of being off on his location and not changing speeds as effectively as he was earlier in the season, probably a result of fatigue. They’ll watch a lot of tape and look at a lot of data, work with him on it, and he’ll be back to normal in the spring. Unfortunately, if it’s fatigue related then we’re back to having a 20-win pitcher who only has enough gas for 15 wins (and yes, with the proper run support he would have finished with 20+ wins.) unless there is a training program out there that he can use to put more gas in the tank for the season.
Yeah, hope you're right
He either got hurt, or just turned into a really bad pitcher around the 170 IP mark, both of which would concern me when looking at him for next year. If Marcum legitimately doesn’t have any idea why he all of a sudden got really bad – yikes.
If its something they can fix, great, but I don’t think you can assume that they can (it’d be fair to point out you can’t assume they won’t, either). Marcum was fine in September 2010, so its nothing he’s dealt with before.
Get a ife broseph
You bring up a frightening point.
I hope this doesn’t turn into something like Brad Lidge giving up the HR to Pujols and then losing his confidence.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
What do you mean?
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
And maybe Byung-Hyun Kim is a better example.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
Kim's issue was less of a loss of confidence
and more that he was angry with his role. He didn’t like closing. IIRC he wanted to be a starter. Sometimes attitude will kill a guy’s career even more than failure.
Also, not a good pitcher.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
He wasn't as good, but wasn't awful
Pujols thing was ’05. Lidge had a 3.79 FIP in 2006 and 3.88 FIP in 2007.
Get a ife broseph
I wouldn't blame the Pujols thing for that
Lidgey is a walking injury. Except when he can’t walk due to all the knee problems.
I don't think he will lose confidence
Especially if the coaching staff comes back with a “hey, this is the reason – you were tired.” I think he will be angry at himself and worried that people will remember him for that failure. Right now, he has a reason to be worried. Despite having the best year of a short career filled with pretty damn good pitching, all we can think about is his last five starts. I think we would just be plumb surprised though if he’d actually won 20 games (I know, it’s meaningless, but still) by getting run support during the middle of the season.
This is a good pitcher who ran out of steam, nothing more. If it were me, I’d work on his offseason conditioning, and limit his starts before the all-star break.
Or his shoulder is hurt, not just "run out of steam"
He hurt it in March so it was already an issue this year. He had this possibly prophetic quote. If his shoulder isn’t healthy, its a concern. Its also a concern if he’s trying to pitch throw pain when he’s struggling.
“If this is the regular season, especially August or September, I’m pitching through it and not saying a word,” he said.
As Rubie and others have noted, he all but stopped throwing his change-up late in the year, perhaps because his shoulder felt tightness when he did.
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Oct 20, 2011 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Would his shoulder hurt more when throwing a changeup than a fastball?
I thought the difference would more or less be with the grip of the ball rather than the delivery.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Yeah, same
But if he didn’t let the coaches know that he was in pain then he really let the team down. I’d be disappointed if that was the case.
by nullacct on Oct 20, 2011 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not as far as I'm aware
Since, from everything I’ve seen, the reason pitchers throw a changeup rather than, say, a curve is because it is significantly easier on the shoulder. The motion is supposed to be exactly the same as the fastball—except the grip causes the ball to tumble more, reducing speed and causing deception. So, I’m not sure why throwing a changeup would hurt one’s shoulder, but a fastball wouldn’t.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 21, 2011 2:33 AM CDT up reply actions
if he's only good for a certain amount of IP per year
it’s good to know this now and he should be managed as such. That seems to be working in Oakland for Brandon McCarthy.
Personally, I would rather keep Marcum.
Pitching is more important, especially going into next year without Prince, and the Brewers don’t need to pay over $12MM to someone who may be on the decline and wasn’t all that great last year.
by Noah Jarosh on Oct 20, 2011 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Still
Youk’s OPS the 3 years before last year, when he was injured: .975, .961, .958. And you can stick him at 3rd. That’s amazing.
Get a ife broseph
That's true.
And I forgot he could play third, which would be nice.
by Noah Jarosh on Oct 20, 2011 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Sort of like how Yuni plays SS and the Statue Game at the same time.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
by Yar Nivek on Oct 20, 2011 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
My takeaways from the presser
1. Yuni is gone.
2. Gamel is either the backup plan to 1B or his traded, either/or
3. The 3B position is wide open for next year
4. They’ll make Fielder a token offer, but will approach the offseason assuming he is gone
Get a ife broseph
Gamel
Does anyone actually believe that Melvin will ever let this guy be his starting first baseman because I dont.
by bklynbrewcrew on Oct 20, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I definitely think it's a possibilty after Melvin said this:
What are possible internal options to replace Fielder: "I’d prefer not to get into that. We know Mat Gamel is here. I look at guys like Nelson Cruz and David Freese. And Mat Gamel has had as good a years as they did in the minor leagues. He just hasn’t had the chance because we haven’t given him the chance. Is this the time to give Mat Gamel a chance? That’s something we have to seriously consider."
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
2-time BCB Fantasy Baseball Champion
Hello, I am a bear.

Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
by Yar Nivek on Oct 20, 2011 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 8 recs
Reading between the lines in that quote
Sounds like DM regrets trading away Cruz before “giving him a chance.”
If he doesn't regret it, he should be fired.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 20, 2011 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Well yeah, but people who boarded the Titanic most likely regretted that decision.
That doesn’t mean they were stupid for deciding to take the trip.
by tcyoung on Oct 21, 2011 2:23 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
All I can think about Daniel Meadows:
“You trying to tell me Jesus Christ can’t hit a curveball?”
“Oh come on, Harris, let’s not start a holy war.”
Author at Acme Packing Company
if their faith can keep them out of trouble
Then I’ve got no complaints with it. If Meadows’ renewed faith is what’s kept him in conditioning and enabled him to hop to the brink of the major leagues within a season, he should keep it up (as long as he doesn’t annoy his other teammates. which is a possibility.)
Grantland
catches up with BCB about 2 months too late. I’m awaiting their forthcoming article on BTC’s prediction system and their roundtable discussion on Rally Bilo vs Rally Random Image…
"I love it when any team called 'The Brew Crew' wins": Tad Kubler
"LOLOL I LOVE YUNI!!!!": ThroughBeingCool
I still say "we". Is it technically correct? No.
Do I care that it’s incorrect? No. I do sort of enjoy the fact that it pisses some people off.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 20, 2011 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
PS: Grantland has some good stuff, but it's often buried in so much self-conscious, pretentious bullshit that I don't bother trying to find it more often than not.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 20, 2011 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
There are a lot of times when "we" can include the fans though.
“We won!” doesn’t work, but “We celebrated the NLDS victory like crazy!” is fine.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
I don't understand why people have a problem with it.
The name of your city is in the name of the team. The fact that people feel such an intense relation to the team, that they feel the need to refer to them as “we” is actually quite beautiful.
by tcyoung on Oct 21, 2011 2:29 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly
In fact I actually tend to think that people who have a problem with fans saying ‘we’ are the pretentious ones.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 21, 2011 2:35 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And sports are stupid in general
We spend tons of time, money and emotion cheering for 20 and 30 year old guys playing a game.
If you’re going to debate the ridiculous things about sports fandom, the “we” debate is way, way low on that list.
Get a ife broseph
I've had the odd problem
with it loading up properly (tends to keep on flickering) but not right at the moment. I think I read something about a week ago on one of the sites about some sort of problem though.
"I love it when any team called 'The Brew Crew' wins": Tad Kubler
"LOLOL I LOVE YUNI!!!!": ThroughBeingCool









































