The Case for Mat Gamel in 2012
In an ideal alternate world, the Brewers have a first baseman in reserve to replace Prince Fielder. I am envisioning someone with top-prospect pedigree, a proven track record of hitting well in the minors, and experience at first base. And hopefully this is a player who is not a raw prospect just out of AA, but a guy who has hit in his opportunities but has not gotten an opportunity to play in the majors yet-- his costs are low, but he's hopefully entering the prime of his career. Maybe this fellow is something like Ryan Howard, who did not play full time in the majors until his age 26 season, after the Phillies traded Jim Thome to clear a spot for him.
A player like this is not going to replace Prince Fielder's production, and is not going to come particularly close to replacing Prince Fielder's production. No available first baseman (outside of Pujols) can. But if he can provide average production, with a bit of upside, it will allow the Brewers to upgrade spots like shortstop, third base, and relief pitching, to make this team something close to as good as it was in 2011.
Look around the league a bit and it becomes pretty clear that the player who best fits this profile is Mat Gamel (I'm sure I wasn't holding anyone in too much suspense with that indirect introduction). Is he a great, foolproof option? Of course not. Is he the best option? I think so, and here I'm going to lay out my reasons for thinking so.
It's easy to forget how much potential scouts saw in Gamel such a short time ago, and now he's like the forgotten man. I remember hoping that LaPorta was included in the Sabathia package instead of Gamel (which was quite a debate at the time). Gamel was second on Baseball America's Top Ten prospect list in 2009, and he was third going into 2010. He peaked at #1 on Brewerfan.net's Power 50. And all throughout his stay in the minors, there has never been anyone who has questioned his track record as a hitter.
At A+ he hit .292/.375/.459 in 560 PAs
At AA he hit .332/.399/.539 in 604 PAs
At AAA he hit .301/.374/.512 in 1247 PAs
What's holding back the perception of Mat Gamel? It's his line over all 194 plate appearances he's received as a member of the Brewers:
In 2009, he hit .242/.338/.422, a roughly average hitting line, as a 23 year old.
In 2010 and 2011, he's received 44 plate appearances, and hit .146/.205/.195.
Apparently some people perceive Gamel as having attitude or training problems. I don't know the guy, so I'm not going to comment on that. All I know is, If he had not gotten those 44 plate appearances over the past two years in the majors, I bet a lot more people would be hoping he's the man for first base last year. 44 plate appearances is a very small amount of plate appearances. 2,411 plate appearances is a very large amount of plate appearances. Going forward, I'm going to expect he's a lot more like the guy who crushes the ball in the minors than the guy who has struggled in the bigs.
Gamel's not the perfect option. If he's the first basemen, I am prepared for a whole year of adventures with him in the field, but if he's going to get better it's going to be by playing. He's an athletic enough guy, hopefully he can improve, as Rickie Weeks has in his time in the majors. Sure, it would be nice to re-sign Fielder, but that's no fun. If you're interested in winning at baseball without an unlimited payroll, sometimes you have to show up at Scott Hatteberg's house and convince him to play first base. Sometimes you have to play Mat Gamel and hope he comes through for you, because sometimes that's the best option.
I'd much rather spend money on an actual shortstop, and bringing back Saito or Hawkins, and ride with Gamel at first this year than to drop significant money on a Carlos Pena or Derrek Lee, who will probably cost about all the money the Brewers have available, and whose upside is probably below Gamel's at this point. I hope Doug Melvin agrees.
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Very, very well said
I couldn’t agree with you more. It shouldn’t be about improving upon Fielder, it should be about improving upon Fielder, Yuni, Casey, etc. as a whole.
Bravo
I completely agree that Gamel should be our starting first baseman next season but I dont see Melvin or Roenicke giving him the job. Roenicke has made his feelings known about young players and that is a huge problem.
My prediction is Derek Lee or Carlos Pena at first, Casey at third with Taylor Green getting spot starts and the irreplaceable Yuni at shortstop again. Gamel will most likely be traded for a middle reliever and he will thrive somewhere else.
The platoon splits worry me the most
He’s struggled against LHP in AAA the last two years. Could be small sample, could be a big problem.
The other issue that as of right now, the Brewers have no backup plan if Gamel doesn’t hit MLB pitching. Lot of offseason of course, but even with a FA signing I’m expecting little offense out of SS, 3B, C. 1B becomes pretty important in terms of finding offense.
If Gamel turns out like Brett Wallace (similar profiles), the Brewers are screwed.
Get a ife broseph
That may be mitigated somewhat
with a platoon partner at 1B while counting on Green (3B) and a mailbox post (SS) to compensate via improved run prevention.
Wallace & Gamel
I guess they’re pretty similar, but Wallace never posted the kind of HR totals that Gamel has, and despite his reputation based on how much Billy Beane coveted him, Wallace’s BB% is underwhelming—Gamel’s has been much healthier.
Plus, he’s made significant improvements in his K%, even if that is across three years in [mostly] AAA.
Not sure where you're getting the HR stuff from
AAA numbers before they were called up full time:
Gamel:
Age 23: 11 HR in 320 PA
Age 24: 13 HR in 359 PA
Age 25: 28 HR in 545 PAs
Wallace:
Age 22: 20 HR in 532 PA
Age 23: 18 HR in 423 PA
Gamel’s walked 9.8% of his MiLB PAs, Wallace 7.8%. Its there, but not major.
Get a ife broseph
Take a look at Brett Wallace's Gameday photo.
There is no way that guy was ever going to be good at baseball. Mat Gamel looks like he could hit maybe.
"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder
I love Harpo Marx, and I don't love Wallace...
But he kind of looks like Harpo. And Harpo probably didn’t make the face he did in the movies all of the time. Just for show.
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Nov 18, 2011 11:59 PM CST up reply actions
Brett Wallace can’t play the harp. If he could, he would be good at baseball.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
Yes... the wide range of dynamics and tone color would make Wallace a maestro with the bat...
And – - – dynamic and “rangy” in the field?
I’d add that it does a lot for upper-body strength, but he already seems to have maybe too much of that.
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Nov 19, 2011 12:29 AM CST up reply actions
Everybody knows the moon is made of ... cheese!
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Nov 19, 2011 12:31 AM CST up reply actions
Well
I don’t have any stats in front of me, but I do remember reading a story back in 09 when he was up in the majors about how Gamel supposedly felt very comfortable against lefties. Macha of course stuck with an absolute ‘you only face righties’ approach. One of the many reasons I was ready to see him go after just one year. Again I don’t know what the stats show but I thought it was interesting.
I feel inclined to give the front office a little bit of a break here. We don’t know Gamel personally so maybe there is an issue with work ethic or approach or something. However this certainly appears to be the ‘now or never’ time to give him a shot and I agree that he seems to be the best option.
by Tristram28 on Nov 19, 2011 12:22 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Go all in with Gamel
This is really the only way he’s gonna have a chance in the bigs. He may have a huge upside. I’m with Jordan, he has as good of a chance at producing for us as anyone else that we have a chance to sign plus he will cost so little. Someone said that if he doesn’t turn out then we won’t have another option. Trade. If we come half-way through the year and he isn’t up to snuff, trade for someone. Guys like D-Lee, Pena etc will almost certainly be available from some poor team and we probably wouldn’t have to give up too much to get them. We CANNOT spend money at 1B – our only chance of being close to as good as we were this year is to spend all our money to improve SS and bullpen. 3B will probably be fine, we have two pretty good options there in McGhee and Green. We HAVE to bring hairston back to be the new version of Craig Counsel – he’s not going to play every day. And I agree with the post from a few days ago too – trading Randy Wolf this offseason might be the right move.
I'm in full agreement here
One snippet from Don Money from a few years ago regarding his third base defense has everyone saying he has no work ethic. Get real.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
I actually met Gamel several times
While renting him cars, and he came off as really nice, even offered me a ride back to the office. Doesn’t speak towards work ethic, but compared to the experiences I’ve had with other players at autograph signings or other public events, I’m willing to give him the benefit of a doubt
by Chuckiehacks83 on Nov 18, 2011 3:10 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Please tell me you are actually Chuckie Carr...
And you own Chuckie Carr Rental.
"...just throw that pill over the plate and I'll make it happen." - Tony Plush
by thefreewheelin76 on Nov 18, 2011 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
Or you are this guy
Listed under VP in company contacts
"...just throw that pill over the plate and I'll make it happen." - Tony Plush
by thefreewheelin76 on Nov 18, 2011 3:39 PM CST up reply actions
Stalker!
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 18, 2011 3:51 PM CST up reply actions
Chuckie hacks
At bad deals! Was my company rental slogan
by Chuckiehacks83 on Nov 18, 2011 6:17 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
My business was modeled after Selig Leasing
Overpromise and under-deliver
by Chuckiehacks83 on Nov 18, 2011 6:19 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Expectations need to be tempered still
It’s going to be his first full year in the league in the starting lineup. He hasn’t seen the kind of breaking stuff in Nashville over the past 3 years that he’s going to see in the majors. It will likely take him a little while, if not a full year, to adjust to big league pitching on a regular basis. I just hope they don’t bring in some broken down vet to “compete” for his job. After being jerked around a little and then stuck behind other guys at his position, I think he’ll benefit from some unconditional job security.
Agree with the first half and am all for giving Gamel a really good shot
but not so sure about giving him unconditional job security. If we didn’t have a realistic chance of going to the playoffs next year I’d be all for giving Gamel an extended run and giving him definite job security. However, we’re probably going to be going into the season in the same position as last year and expecting a tight, three team battle. If Gamel isn’t performing in those circumstances and there’s no decent alternative then there’d rightly be an awful lot of questioning why no competition was brought it for the position given the fact Gamel may well still have potential but remains unproven at MLB level.
"I love it when any team called 'The Brew Crew' wins": Tad Kubler
"LOLOL I LOVE YUNI!!!!": ThroughBeingCool
by MrLeam on Nov 19, 2011 7:32 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Gamel is probably going to struggle at least a little bit.
I think he should be given until at least June to see how he does.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
What kind of adventures are you expecting in the field?
Balls that should be scooped? We had that with Fielder. From most accounts the only problem with his defense was footwork on his throws.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
Nothing much new to add
But thanks for this. Sums up my (and many others, obviously) opinion nicely. It’s now or never for Gamel. We have to bite the bullet, take the risk and see if he can swim when we toss him in the deep end this year. We’ll probably have to be a bit patient with him, but I agree that the money that the Brewers do have need to go elsewhere. We don’t know if Gamel can be good/ better than good or even average, but we know the Yuni is none of the above and the bullpen we have at this moment scares the crap out of me.
by kotsaythebuzzkill on Nov 18, 2011 7:46 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Okay, I have no choice...
That is, of course, not really true. I do not have to talk about
Ken (Middle Name is this next quote)
He" may get a start — we’ll see," said Brewers manager Ken Macha, who paused when asked if he felt comfortable with playing Gamel at third base. “He’s had some errors down there, [eight] errors. I thought in Spring Training he wasn’t really terrible out there.”Macha
Or, TH putting out the May 26th 2009 lineup:
Bill Hall is back at third base, in large part because Jeff Suppan is pitching and a lot of balls get put in play, and Hall is more accomplished than rookie Mat Gamel defensively.
Here are your Ground Balls!
*My point, here, is not so much to talk about the game where we lost 8-1. This was an attempt at sarcasm, maybe. There were hardly any plays at 3rd, and Sloopan gave up 3 home runs, I think.
The point is that Gamel was welcomed to the big show in this sort of way; “you’re not really very good, defensively, and we are really nervous about that!”
If I came to college my first year, and they said; “We are so nervous because you use a mallet technique on the xylophone that we don’t teach, and you’ll have to unlearn a lot of what you know…” (That’s actually true. I switched schools, because it didn’t get any better).
Can I relate to Mat? I think, in some way, all of us can probably put ourselves in that position. Whether it’s going to a nice store with someone, and they say “Don’t go near anything! We’ll have to pay for that stuff and you’ll drop it!” Who really would want to go with their parents to a store where there are all of those glass items.
My point, here, is that Mat wasn’t welcomed in the way he deserved to be welcomed. It wasn’t like “wow! This guy will really help us, offensively. What a hitter. Nice to see you, Mr. Gamel!”
I doubt that ever happened.
- – - – -
This is one thing that will help me feel better; How about a nice ST without freak accidents in the batting cage, toe problems or showing up overweight?
I’m a Gamel fan, and I think he won’t get better against ML pitching in AAA! We all know that, and I thought I’d just confirm that I know that. Let’s save some dinero and get ourselves one of ’them shortstop peoplez!
Boo, Ken Macha!
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Nov 18, 2011 11:45 PM CST reply actions
Also, you have to question why they're not comfortable with Gamel's defense, but they'll throw Yuni and McGehee out there for an entire season
How bad could Gamel’s defense really be at first base? I understand that it could hypothetically be really bad, but if he was that kind of can’t-get-to-anything player, wouldn’t we know it by now? We know defense is not his strong point, but um…this is the Brewers infield. None of them are strong defensively. So why is Gamel the only one being penalized for it?
by kotsaythebuzzkill on Nov 19, 2011 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Because Yuni's defense isn't as bad as his critics say it is............................
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
Right!
RRR threw a lot of below-average defenders out there. I just would have thought Macha would have been happy to have some extra offense. It’s not every day someone who can hit for power shows up to help out.
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Nov 19, 2011 2:12 PM CST up reply actions

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