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Monday's Frosty Mug

Welcome to Day 2 of the Ryan Braun fallout.

There's a lot that's still unknown about Braun's failed drug test, but a few details did come out yesterday.

  • An anonymous source made media rounds yesterday, saying the banned substance for which Braun tested positive wasn't a performance-enhancing drug.
  • Tom Haudricourt says there's a chance the situation won't be resolved until January.
  • Ken Rosenthal quoted the anonymous source as saying "everyone was left scratching their head" when the news broke, and that the results of the test were so unusual that they've "never been seen in the history of the drug-prevention program."
  • Maybe this is what the source was getting at -- the New York Daily News quotes a source as saying Braun's testosterone levels were "insanely" high. In fact, Braun's levels were twice as high as anyone who's ever taken the test. The NYDN's source also says there are "chain of custody issues" with the test.
  • We may be seeing Braun's side of the case taking shape. From the same NYDN article:

"The argument before the appeals board won't be that the original ratio was so high and doesn't make sense," said the source, "but there will be a defense. It's not something he knew or should have known about."

Speculate away, I guess. More Braun reaction:

Getting away from the Braun talk:

  • The Rockies are apparently showing interest in Marco Scutaro, who the Red Sox could be looking to trade to get back under the luxury tax. Scutaro's on the books for $6 million in 2012.
  • Everyone is still expecting a White Sox firesale, and Jon Heyman says Chicago talked to Toronto about a possible Carlos Quentin deal. Hey, the two sides have already made one deal this offseason, why not another?
  • It appears Josh Willingham won't be signing anywhere until Michael Cuddyer does. The Twins and Rockies are interested in both, but Willingham is seen as both teams' "Plan B." Cuddyer's wife just had twins, so we probably shouldn't expect a decision anytime soon.
  • The Aramis Watch is still in effect, as Heyman says the Brewers are still talking to him.
  • Who knows what this means in the long run, but ESPN's Jerry Crasnick says Zack Greinke is no longer being represented by CAA and is looking for a new agent (FanShot). It seems a little odd to automatically assume he wants a trade just because he's switching agents, but I suppose you can't blame Brewers fans for automatically assuming the worst these days.
  • Beyond the Boxscore came out with their 2011 Traditional Managing Index results, which basically adds sac bunts by position players to intentional walks given by pitchers to determine which managers are the most "traditional." Ron Roenicke doesn't rate as "traditional" as you would guess.
  • The Crawfish Boxes has a look at the blogger-friendly tendencies of new GM Jeff Luhnow.
  • Remember former Braves closer John Rocker? He has a book coming out and claims he was unfairly portrayed in the infamous Sports Illustrated article from about 10 years ago.
  • If you're wondering how Carlos Gomez and Erick Almonte did last night, you can check the Winter League Notes.

11 p.m. (Central) tonight is the non-tender deadline. Just a reminder of who's arbitration-eligible this winter: Casey McGehee, Nyjer Morgan, George Kottaras, Kameron Loe, Manny Parra, Shaun Marcum, and Carlos Gomez. If I had to guess, most of these guys would be tendered contracts, but the Brewers have surprised us before.

Thanks to Kyle for letting me fill in while he's on vacation. As always, you can catch me at The Brewers Bar and on Twitter at @BrewersBar.

I would say "drink up," but perhaps "drown your sorrows" is more appropriate these days.

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How should I be interpreting the "banned substance but not a PED" speculation?

I stayed away from the blogs yesterday so may be behind.

But if the preceding is true, then presumably there couldn’t have been any synthetic testosterone in his system, correct?

The possibility of this was mentioned in Will Carroll’s SI.com piece…I believe he used the term “conflicting reports” with respect to Braun’s B sample.

If this were a stimulant I’d be more forgiving.

by infield fly on Dec 12, 2011 10:50 AM CST reply actions  

We don't know anything yet

Just elevated levels of testosterone. We might find out more in January.

by ecocd on Dec 12, 2011 11:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Isnt a stimulant only a 25 game suspension and a PED a 50 game susp? If he cant win his appeal, at least we can hope it was a stimulant. Not only to get 25 games back but for the lesser tarnishing of his legacy.

"I agree but dont agree"

by juggernaut400 on Dec 12, 2011 1:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes, it's 25 games

That’s what Cameron got back in 2008.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Dec 12, 2011 3:15 PM CST up reply actions  

jeff passan: "false positive almost impossible"

this is why sports writers are not scientists. i work with enough molecular technology to know that false positives are, in fact, quite possible.

i'm fighting all the french people i can find. happy cinco de mayo!

by sowingwildoats on Dec 12, 2011 10:52 AM CST reply actions   2 recs

I refused to click on his articles and give him another click

But his headline on the front page of yahoo sports about Braun made me furious. What a surprise that one of the most mainstream, generic reporters out there feels the need to be a rush-to-judgement prick. Screw the Braun suing ESPN talk. I’d be satisfied with this story getting Passan fired if and when Braun is found innocent (which is still my default right now because I can’t consider the other option yet).

by kotsaythebuzzkill on Dec 12, 2011 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

FWIW, his lede for today's column:

“Here’s the problem with Ryan Braun’s camp mounting a full-bore, no-holds-barred, spin-it-like-a-tornado excusefest…”

His tone has been oddly fierce throughout this entire thing.

by jlang on Dec 12, 2011 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

I realize people around here dont' like Passan, but the facts back him up.

Will Carroll is saying the same thing, and he wrote a book about drug testing. He explains the whole false positive thing. (link)

by tcyoung on Dec 12, 2011 11:14 AM CST up reply actions  

You're exactly right

The problem is that he’s using a strict defintion of “false poitive” although the layperson just associates the term with “mistake.” Carroll talks like some scientific authority on analytical testing, but doesn’t seem to understand that data aren’t just true or false – there’s also a huge gray area where it’s usable or not. So, sure, I’ll concede that the problem here may not be a false positive, but that certainly doesn’t mean that the data meet validation/usability criteria. And this doesn’t even consider COC issues; if those reports have any truth to them at all, this case should have been thrown out a long time ago.

by CoreySLC on Dec 12, 2011 11:47 AM CST up reply actions  

bingo

bango.

i'm fighting all the french people i can find. happy cinco de mayo!

by sowingwildoats on Dec 12, 2011 12:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Alright, since that was all over my head, I'll defer to you.

The point I was trying to make was don’t dismiss it simply because it’s Passan. Carroll knows a lot more about the issue than Passan, and he was saying the same thing.

But yeah, from what you’re saying, false positives are technically possible.

by tcyoung on Dec 12, 2011 12:35 PM CST up reply actions  

"Almost impossible" is the term I really dislike.

This makes it seem like they are as rare as seeing a double rainbow. WHOA

That dog just won't hunt.

by Bush League All Star on Dec 12, 2011 1:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Boom, roasted.

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 12, 2011 1:42 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

salts?

So, are you saying the sample may have had grit in it?

by nullacct on Dec 12, 2011 1:57 PM CST up reply actions  

exactly. tainted specimen.

there’s probably still grit never cleaned out of the clubhouse from kendall.

i'm fighting all the french people i can find. happy cinco de mayo!

by sowingwildoats on Dec 12, 2011 4:38 PM CST up reply actions  

10^0

You mean 1?

Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".

by Yar Nivek on Dec 12, 2011 2:08 PM CST up reply actions  

hush, you.

your desire for reduction makes my graphs look sloppy!

i'm fighting all the french people i can find. happy cinco de mayo!

by sowingwildoats on Dec 12, 2011 4:36 PM CST up reply actions  

got my email fro brewers.com stating it was "green monday"

maybe it was greenies?

He’s actually underrated, but that’s another can of worms…

by jarlbartar on Dec 12, 2011 11:12 AM CST reply actions  

My one and only Braun post until all the facts are available

Like most Brewers fans, the moment I opened up ScoreCenter on my iPod last night and saw the headline “OTL: Braun tests positive for PED” rates up there as one of the worst sports-related moments of my fan-life (right up near the Vikings beating the Bengals on MNF on Christmas Day in 1989, eliminating the Packers from the playoffs. My 6-year old self was devastated!)

I stayed away from the other posts on BCB, mostly knowing that there would be tons of irrational arguing amid some good, rational posts. Also, I wanted to let my emotions settle for a little bit before commenting. After doing that, here is my one and only take until we know all the facts: I will wait to pass judgment, but this certainly is worrisome.

If it turns out that Braun is “completely innocent” as he claims, this will in know way affect my respect and fan-love for Braun and I will be happy to cheer him on for years.

If it turns out that Braun tested positive for a prohibited substance (not a PED) and/or that he either unknowingly took that substance in something else or otherwise made a mistake of omission, not commision, I will be disappointed in Ryan and hope he learned his lesson (to painstakingly check EVERYTHING you consume). I will, however, not lose respect for him and will continue to cheer him on for years. For me, accidentally forgetting to check the contents of something is not willingly cheating – it is an oversight, one that he still should be suspended for because that’s the rules, but not one to villify him for.

If it turns out that Braun tested positive for a PED or prohibited substance that can mask PEDs and knowingly took that substance, then LIED about it, I will lose much of my respect for him and will definitely not cheer as hard for him personally in the future. I will not make inappropriate jokes about his PED test or take ROID’S signs to the ballpark, but I will always feel that he was a cheater and a coward for lying about it. He will still be on my favorite team and I will cheer for him to have on-field success, but he will probably not be my favorite Brewer since Molitor and Yount anymore.

In regards to ESPN, I have very little problem with their coverage of this. They are a sports news organization – they reported relevant sports news. It should have been kept confidential and I hate whoever ratted it out, but I have no problem with ESPN reporting it. The positive tests from the 2003 or so that a name keeps popping up every year or so from were supposed to be confidential too. While I sometimes wish we lived in a different media world – one like back in the 60’s when the White House reporters supposedly knew JFK was cheating with Marilyn Monroe but didn’t report it – we live in a world were any juicy rumor is going to be reported. That’s the way it is.

And with that, I am done.

by JLHanke on Dec 12, 2011 11:31 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

And Travis Ishikawa!

Linky!

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Dec 12, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

hmm, the kid can field

Late-inning replacement for Hart and/or Greinke no-no night starter?

by nullacct on Dec 12, 2011 11:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Fanshot

Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.

by The Dayman on Dec 12, 2011 11:44 AM CST up reply actions  

2 things

1. Medical information should never be released to the public unless not releasing it constitutes a danger to the public.

2. Testosterone is not detected and measured. All substances [x] which react to conditions [y] are detected, where set [x][y] is assumed to be testosterone, but may in fact be other substances permitted or prohibited which alter or interfere with the detection of testosterone. [IE, if panda milk fucks with the test, the test is also measuring panda milk and not just testosterone.]

by nullacct on Dec 12, 2011 11:45 AM CST reply actions  

I'm trying not to think about Braun too much today.

It’s going to be tough. Here’s how simple it was to cue a thought. I was walking around at work and I heard a Carrie Underwood song playing. Guess what song it was…

Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector

by -JP- on Dec 12, 2011 11:48 AM CST reply actions  

One thing we learned from Barry Bonds.

Braun doesn’t have to worry about winning the hometwon fans back. Hometown fans seem to find a way to deny it or excuse it.

by Rick B on Dec 12, 2011 11:51 AM CST reply actions  

Wondering if somebody interesting gets non-tendered tonight.

I wonder if they feel they have to wait until Braun’s situation is resolved so they can figure out just how much the backup would be playing.

by kotsaythebuzzkill on Dec 12, 2011 1:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Mentioned in yesterday's almost-mug

Logan Shafer would easily be the leading candidate. He’s cheap and the Brewers will get an unexpected chance to see what he can do with extended time at the major league level. Given that the first opening in the OF won’t happen until the 2014 season, it may be the only opportunity to help define Shafer’s trade value (or his viability to replace Hart’s contract in 2013).

There’s really no reason to go outside the organization on this one.

by ecocd on Dec 12, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Assuming GoGo is the fourth OF, and you carry five

You’d need Shafer AND a 50 game replacement.

Personally, I’d rather have Shafer up for the 50 games and a vet with little more pop on the bench for the full season (I’m assuming McGehee is non-tendered).

by infield fly on Dec 12, 2011 2:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Bring up a sack of potatoes.

They ran only 4 OF for a long time last season despite having 5 on the roster. Not worried about 5th OF.

by ecocd on Dec 12, 2011 3:01 PM CST up reply actions  

from Witardo!
Source: Braun has assured some teammates that this is all a “misunderstanding” and that he doesn’t expect to be suspended.

I am too drunk to taste this chicken.

by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 12, 2011 5:28 PM CST reply actions   2 recs

haha yeah

I am too drunk to taste this chicken.

by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 12, 2011 7:00 PM CST up reply actions  

This gets weirder and weirder

E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).

by Jordan M on Dec 12, 2011 6:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Who hasn’t spilled some extra testosterone while peeing?

REWIND YOURSELF!

by drezdn on Dec 12, 2011 10:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I have this weird theory fire

BCB, the preferred above replacement level sarcasm supplier.

by MadJimiBrewha on Dec 12, 2011 10:39 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

wow, Android post fail

I have this weird but potentially plausible theory on how a player might get an extremely high level of testosterone in a urine sample “accidentally”. However, it is missing an answer for the presence of exogenous testosterone. It essentially is based on the timing of sexual activity prior to a test and any residual materials. Hypothetically, (and if I recall my limited knowledge of male reproduction) there are significant levels of testosterone in male reproductive material and any residual that may mix with a urine sample could impact levels in the sample.
As I stated, this fails to account for the reported exogenous testosterone, which is obvious ly

BCB, the preferred above replacement level sarcasm supplier.

by MadJimiBrewha on Dec 12, 2011 10:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Obviously a significant factor here, but I thought I would share my random musings regardless of how far out there it may be. Feel free to disprove if you have any knowledge on the subject.

BCB, the preferred above replacement level sarcasm supplier.

by MadJimiBrewha on Dec 12, 2011 10:52 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I will see your theory and raise you...

Denial stage is really setting in with me…

That dog just won't hunt.

by Bush League All Star on Dec 13, 2011 12:03 AM CST up reply actions  

My theory is that a bitter Matt Kemp fanatic tampered with the sample. Thus the record, possibly inhuman of testosterone rumored to have been found.

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 13, 2011 12:18 AM CST up reply actions  

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