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Brew Crew Ball Book Club: The Extra 2% Chapters 7-9 Discussion

After some site wonkiness and a postponement, last week's discussion was a little tepid. Those chapters weren't exactly discussion-inciting. So let's hope the new information presented in today's chapters leave everyone a little more chatty.

Don't forget to read the final three chapters (and the epilogue) and come back next week Tuesday at 7 pm CST.

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One of the things that someone told me before reading the book was that it kind of works like a series of essays and not a cohesive book and I felt that a lot in this series of chapters.

Like the beginning of chapter 9 goes over the 08 team and mentions several players and then a few paragrphs later mentions the same guys like its the first time we’ve heard of them.

It also says they lost 10 of the first 16 but then goes back and talks about them being at 5-8. Its kind of all over the place at times

by Nicole Haase on Dec 13, 2011 7:07 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

Hey, Nicole : - )

Before I add to this, I just want to mention I’ve been pretty upset about Ryan’s situation, and I’ve had trouble getting thoughts together on posting here.

But, I’ve been thinking about Keri’s work throughout the book, and, because I like his writing so much, I get the sense that if I had trouble with a lack of fluidity in this book, it must be tough to write about the Rays.

I can really imagine these as essays, too. I think a great place to have these would be as a weekly feature in a prominent magazine. I think it is also tough to see this and think “what am I not understanding that I need to understand?” Maybe it’s because I’ve got a picture and have formulated ideas about the Rays due to following them a bunch on t.v., blogs, articles etc…

A monthly or bi-weekly magazine feature would be more effective, because I think he’s still a gifted story-teller. Maybe it’s just me, but I’ve picked up on what you and Kyle have mentioned about some of these things, too. So there are probably others who have thought about this. There are memorable things in each chapter/essay, but I feel forced to put all of this together, and I can’t! When a family member asked me about it last week, I couldn’t even figure out how to find a main theme. Upon finishing the book, I couldn’t even tell you if the Extra 2% is more a figure of speech (like Maddon’s 9 = 8,) or if I just didn’t get it! Errrgh.

I love to read, and I love to talk about books, but I’m having a tough time!

FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.

by Jess'HittheBall on Dec 13, 2011 7:37 PM CST up reply actions  

marketing

The chapter on the rebranding and marketing was really interesting, and it’s true that it helped bring in more fans (well, that and the vastly improved product the Rays are putting on the field) but they’re still not drawing the way they should be. If the best marketing team in the country chops down a tree in the one of the most economically depressed regions of the country, it apparently doesn’t make any sound.

by morineko on Dec 13, 2011 8:06 PM CST reply actions  

Yeah, I had the same thing written down in my notes.

Rebranding and creative thinking seemed to produce a “feel” of improvement, but it didn’t actually seem to fix anything.

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Dec 13, 2011 8:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Later in the book, he pins a lot of the lack of attendance on the stadium

He basically makes the argument that the team would probably be a decent-drawing team if they played in a decent stadium in a reasonable location.

by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 13, 2011 8:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I found that whole section entertaining

I mean, the concerts seem to be a bit of an anomaly, but I feel like Keri acts like the idea that giving things out to the fans draws a higher attendance was invented by the Rays.

by Nicole Haase on Dec 13, 2011 10:33 PM CST up reply actions  

btw, re the Brewers and shortstops

Ch 8 on the ‘07 team calls out Josh Wilson for being bad at shortstop. Maybe that’s why he got zilcho playing time in ’11.

by morineko on Dec 13, 2011 8:08 PM CST reply actions  

That was a pretty incredible outlier season.

Wilson played 90 games and had a UZR/150 at short under -20. He was -3.4 in about the same number of innings the next time he cracked the bigs in 2009.

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Dec 13, 2011 8:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Sorry I'm late - here's a classic "oops" moment I marked so I'd remember:

When they discussed the Delmon Young trade, Keri said this:

The Twins have fared well since doing the deal too, with Young enjoying his best season in 2010 and a slew of talented, homegrown players – plus a new, revenue-rich stadium – making Minnesota a perennial contender.

Delmon Young posted a .695 OPS in 2011 and was dealt to the Tigers midseason in 2011. The Twins narrowly missed 100 losses.

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Dec 13, 2011 8:58 PM CST reply actions  

Not sure why he played the Young trade like a plus for the Twins

But I don’t think anybody saw them falling as far as they did this year.

by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 13, 2011 9:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Right.

I don’t necessarily fault him for showing the Twins favorably. I’m sure I’ve probably got instances like that in my work too. It was just funny to see how fast things turn – a book published in 2011 had a representation of the Twins that was dated by May.

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Dec 13, 2011 9:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Did anyone else feel like Keri was somewhat unfair when discussing the contracts given to some of the young Rays?

I feel like he somewhat underrepresented the value of financial security to a guy who’s years away from his first big payday. I know those deals came out looking good for the franchise but that’s not always the case (see Hall, Bill).

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Dec 13, 2011 9:00 PM CST reply actions  

On page 168, Keri cites a study that says an extra win is worth roughly $1.2 million in revenue.

Yet at other points in the book the team seems to make the case that getting more wins doesn’t matter if you’re not going to contend. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, right?

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Dec 13, 2011 9:02 PM CST reply actions  

It has to be, I guess.

The marginal value of a win decreases as you get farther away from contention, but it certainly never drops to zero. I’d be curious to see the calculations for the $1.2 million figure.

by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 13, 2011 9:05 PM CST up reply actions  

At the very bottom (the difference between 40 and 45 wins, let's say), the difference might actually be negative.

You might draw more ironic interest by losing at a historic clip than you would by simply having a 52-110 season.

But once you get above the “historically bad” tier, I’d agree that certainly every win carries some value.

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Dec 13, 2011 9:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Heh, yeah, I suppose

Especially if you had a compellingly bad team, ’62 Mets-style.

by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 13, 2011 9:09 PM CST up reply actions  

I feel like

there’s a pretty significant number of these contradictions/inconsistencies in the book.

As I mentioned in my post, there was the point about losing 10 of 16 and made it a big deal. Then the next page he talks about them going 16-12 (or something similar) on the month.

There was also a point talking about how it was a big deal because they were in a playoff race – and it was early June. I mean, in early June, pretty much everyone is in a playoff race – there’s still a lot of baseball to be played.

The more I read, the more I find these. This with the redundancies I mentioned above are starting to get on my nerves as someone who reads like a copy editor

by Nicole Haase on Dec 13, 2011 10:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Is it just me

or is anyone else waiting for the big reveal moment here?

Other than the idea of focusing on (some as yet created) defensive metrics, I don’t feel like Keri has showed us anything too groundbreaking or new that would explain the need to write a whole book about it.

Maybe I’m impatient and this is still coming, but thus far I don’t know if there’s anything in this book that I couldn’t have found elsewhere without too much difficulty.

by Nicole Haase on Dec 13, 2011 10:35 PM CST reply actions  

That was sort of my feeling about the whole book

You read through it expecting there to be a big moment which explains exactly what the “Extra 2%” is or something like Beane’s exploitation of market inefficiencies/on-base percentage usage which ran through Moneyball. Essentially, though, the “Extra 2%” is the accumulation of lots of minute things that make a small, but key, difference. I think this means that the book ends up reading like lots of separate articles each on a different topic and you never really get into sufficient detail on each issue (at least not for someone relatively familiar with lots of the issues). You’re constantly wondering why other teams don’t do what Tampa Bay did and how exactly they come to their decisions.

I should say that despite this I really enjoyed reading the book and Keri writes very well….

"I love it when any team called 'The Brew Crew' wins": Tad Kubler
"LOLOL I LOVE YUNI!!!!": ThroughBeingCool

by MrLeam on Dec 14, 2011 1:33 AM CST up reply actions  

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