A. Gonzalez deal with #Brewers: 1 yr, $4.25M w $4M vesting opt. Option vests with 525 PAs. Cleared that each of past two seasons.
That was more than I was expecting, personally.
6 months ago
Noah Jarosh
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I hate it when other people get stuff posted before I can
I need to find a way to be faster with those things.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
Small things man, small things
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 13, 2011 6:25 PM CST up reply actions
Double what I was expecting, almost.
Clint Barmes, 2 years, $10.5MM
or
Seabass, 2 years, $8.25MM
Which one would you rather have?
I'd take Gonzalez
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 13, 2011 6:25 PM CST up reply actions
It's not really 2 yrs/$8.25M
It’s 1 yr at $4.25M plus 1 more year at $4M. Huge difference. With Barmes’ contract, if he regresses, they’re still stuck paying him for another season.
With Gonzalez’s contract, if he tanks, they’re not stuck with him for another year.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
by sjlee on Dec 14, 2011 12:44 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Uh, we just gave 589 PA to the worst SS in baseball
So I think they’re gonna end up paying Gonzalez for two years. The only way it doesn’t vest is if he gets injured for over a month. When you have no second option, and you just suffered through a year of Yuni, your standard for starting-SS play is insanely low.
Yeah, The Brewers paid a premium to get him on a 1 year deal.
There’s a decent chance that it turns into a 2-year deal, but they had to pay more to avoid having to guarantee that second year.
by tcyoung on Dec 14, 2011 8:54 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Wow,
that’s a lot of money for an average-at-best player
Packers: Working on a dynasty.
Blackhawks: Taking care of business as usual.
Badgers:Back-to-back B1G Champions!
Brewers: Move along, nothin' to see here.
Still less per year than we paid YunE.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
Market rate for an average player is $8 million/year
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
(actually, probably more than that now, but that's at $4M/W)
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
It includes a premium
for not being the team starting Yuni in 2012. Dodging a bullet costs $2 million/year.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Dec 13, 2011 10:45 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This is more than I was expecting.
I think I’d rather have Barmes at his price, but the one year deal with vesting option probably was a little more expensive for the first year than a two year deal would have been.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
true
but if Gonz doesn’t vest, Doug has to go back to the scrapheap-SS market again next year, since there aren’t any internal options. and then he’s faced with the same issue, of overpaying to only guarantee one season.
That's why the vest occurs with a figure he hit the last two years.
Melvin’s hoping he hits it, because if he does, it probably means there wasn’t a significant drop off in production. This isn’t KRod’s circumstance, where the Mets (and then the Brewers) were basically terrified of the vesting option kicking in.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 13, 2011 6:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
yes, valid
I guess I just wanted Barmes, even though I know the timing didn’t make sense at all, in that we were trying to talk with Rollins & Reyes first
Timing is everything.
Barnes was already gone. Furcal was focused on the Cards. Rollins wasn’t available. There just weren’t a lot of other options out there and more than one team was still looking at Gonzalez. Advantage, player.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 13, 2011 6:20 PM CST reply actions
Why does anyone care? They already signed A-Ram so the payroll doesn't really matter.
Good on you, Mark A.!
(Also, last two years: Clint Barmes 3.7 fWAR, Alex Gonzalez 4.5 fWAR)
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 13, 2011 6:24 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
The thing with Barmes
Is that his value is much higher when you play him at SS, where for some reason he’s a much better defender (per UZR/150), and in 2010 (and 09), the Rockies used him more at 2B.
The Astros were the first team to fully maximize Barmes’ value in his prime. I suspect he’ll out-WAR Seabass this season if the Pirates use him the same way. Not by a ton, but probably enough to make up the $1MM difference.
His last full season at SS he put up -0.8 fWAR
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 13, 2011 6:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That was his first season as an everyday player
and his defense was excellent. as I said, he’s now in his prime, and his bat has improved enough to make him a positive-WAR guy
Sample size!
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
Barmes will be out there with McGehee.
Doesn’t have to worry about the 3B taking any opportunities away from him.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
That takes payroll to
an estimated $97.19M. With two bench spots to fill. At league minimum, those two spots would raise payroll to $98.15M.
I wonder how those 10 packs are selling…
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
I wonder if Mark A.
Has gotten to the point where it’s not even about the money anymore. It would be pretty foolish, but don’t you think it’s possible that he thought to himself “fuck it, we’re winning the world series even if I have to eat 10 million”
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
Its entirely possible
Also, TV contract increase, ticket price increase, playoff revenue. Maybe he’s not even eating money on this.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 13, 2011 6:51 PM CST up reply actions
Not necessarily that exactly
But basically he had planned to be a playoff team this season, and isn’t going to screw with that plan, taking on the extra small cost associated with keeping the ship afloat. After this season, when Greinke, Marcum, and others are gone, we offload and rebuild.
Mark Attanasio is the best.
He got paid 2.5 million last year.
Big raise. Aging glove, no bat, potentially 8 million= Do not want
That was pretty much the only other option
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
Usually I think people are entitled to your opinion
but you are wrong.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 13, 2011 7:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
People are entitled to their opinion, not mine.
Even so, you cannot say I am wrong since I A.) never said anything factually incorrect (he is aging, bad bat, and contract details are correct) and B.) I said I did not want. You cannot deny that I do not want.
by ackbartehtrap on Dec 13, 2011 8:04 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
That's true
You would rather have had Betancourt.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 14, 2011 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
It'll only be a $8.25M deal if Gonzalez plays well this season
If he doesn’t, no way does he see 575 PAs to allow that option to vest.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
My usage of "plays well" simply means above Yuni level.
Since for all intents and purposes was really our only other option left.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Yuni was unbelievably terrible
and played in a zillion games. Roenicke will be playing Gonzalez just as much.
Not surprised
That’s the going rate for shortstops. I’m still happy. Yuni will go for $2.5 million to someone.
by ecocd on Dec 13, 2011 7:29 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Cub fan comes in peace
Before I get started, let me state unequivocally that I come in peace. And I applaud the Brewers for a great 2011 season. And I acknowledge that the Cubs are staring at 95 losses in 2012 as part of the Theo Epstein – Jed Hoyer transformation.
Aramis Ramirez to Milwaukee? Well Brewer fans, you should hate the acquistion. Ramirez “was” an outstanding ballplayer for a long time. But the last few seasons he has been an absolute DOG. Lackadaisical, doesn’t run out balls…. and has devolved into an awful defensive 3rd baseman. Question for you guys….can Ron Roenicke motivate this dog in Milwaukee? Is there a chemistry and culture in that clubhouse that will DEMAND that Ramirez gives full effort? 3 year deal??? Sorry, but a very dubious move if you ask me.
Ryan Braun? Lets see what happens. I was absolutely shocked by events. Perhaps he is vindicated. We won’t know until all the facts are out on the table.
Brewers in 2012? Honestly? Hasn’t your lineup all of a sudden gotten old and very right-handed? Wouldn’t the smarter move be to go grab I Mike Cuddyer type and shift Braun or Corey Hart to 1st base? Alex Gonzalez is an okay glove at this point, but my goodness he can’t hit his way out of a paperbag.
It will all come down you your pitching. That and Braun coming back and being strong. Rickie Weeks is highly underrated, so you’ve got that going too.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
I will say this:
I’m guessing the Brewers are a lot more fun to be around as people than the Cubs when they’re playing.
It's definitely an old starting lineup
Other than the fact that every guy is under 33 other than the left side of the IF, and everyone else is 30 or under other than Morgan.
by MooseHaas on Dec 13, 2011 7:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Of course you aren't coming in peace, why else would you post what you just did?
If Aramis Ramirez put up 3.6 fWAR last year while not trying and being surrounded by the chaos that was the Cubs clubhouse, then I’m pretty happy about his chances in Milwaukee. You’re calling the guy a “dog”? Seriously?
Sorry that your team is an absolute mess, but you don’t need to passively aggressively take it out on other fanbases.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 13, 2011 7:53 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Hey man, he just wants to talk baseball
also, Aramis Ramirez is a piece of shit, and he’s glad us idiots are paying him a ton of money, not the shrewd Cubs.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 13, 2011 7:54 PM CST up reply actions
I think he honestly was trying to come in peace
Just seriously lacking in tact.
Even if he’s right about the motivation issue, though, I think playing on a team that’s not completely awful will probably be all the motivation Ramirez needs.
The rest of his “analysis” is nonsensical and useless, but whatevs.
by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 13, 2011 7:57 PM CST up reply actions
Whatever
Look, I’m just giving you the perspective of watching Ramirez in a Cub uniform since 2003. There is no denying he was a dog the last two seasons…and that his defense went down the toilet. Yeah, he should give you 90 RBIs in his sleep. But Roenicke had better be prepared to shove a shoe up his keester when called upon.
Your lineup? A lot of career years in 2011…and now no Prince and Braun. I don’t see how that still works for you guys. And God forbid Braun was actually juiced and turns into crap, especially with no Prince hittng behind him.
I guess this is what I get for coming in peace.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Could you not bring up Braun?
Open wound.
Or, you can bring him up, but more in a “he’s the #3 hitter in our line-up.”
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Dec 13, 2011 8:17 PM CST up reply actions
*correction ; more in a "he's the #3 hitter in our line-up" type of way.
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Dec 13, 2011 8:18 PM CST up reply actions
See, here's the thing
When you come to our site and relentlessly rip our team’s players, just saying you’re “coming in peace” is a pretty small fig leaf to try to cover up the intentions revealed in the rest of your posts.
As for your points
- Let’s say you’re right, and A-Ram was dogging it the last two years. You know why? Because he was playing for horrible, dysfunctional teams whose managers hated them. That won’t be a problem in Milwaukee, because unlike the Cubs, the Brewers are actually good.
- The “a lot of career years” in the Brewers’ lineup in 2011 was actually … 1. Ryan Braun was the only Brewer who had a career high in fWAR last year (other than Jonathan Lucroy, who was only in his second season). So, uh, don’t bank on a ton of regression from the lineup.
- I’m not sure if you’re aware, but even if Ryan Braun is suspended for 50 games, he’s still active for the other 112 games of the season. That’s almost exactly the number of games the Brewers got out of Rickie Weeks this year (coming off of a 6.5 WAR season), and they seemed to do all right with that.
- Yes, God forbid Braun was juiced and turns back into the player who put up a .312/.371/.563 line while passing dozens of drug tests over his five years in the league. That would be terrible.
by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 13, 2011 8:32 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
Well...
Aramis Ramirez was OUR player for 9 seasons. If you don’t like to hear the unvarnished truth about the guy, then figure it out for yourself by no later than June 1st. I could care less. But I’m pretty sure Brewer fans will shit a brick when he semi-jogs to first base after hitting a ball to the gap. Or does his bullfighter impression when a ball is hit to his left at 3rd. Likewise, Brewer fans better pray that Alex Gonzalez has ungodly range to his right to make up for all the balls that Ramirez will have zero shot at getting to. And that Mat Gamel is instantaneously Gold Glove caliber at 1st to suck in a dozen errant throws a week coming from A-Ram.
Ryan Braun? What happened is sickening. Sickening for baseball. I genuinelly hope he is innocent because baseball doesn’t need the colossal distraction that his guilt will result in.
I also find it hilarious how you crackers think Tony Plush is the second coming of Rickie Hendersen in his prime, and how Prince’s ENORMOUS presence in your lineup won’t really be missed.
Oh, and Zach Greinke wants the first bus out of town. Sure sets up for a lovely summer at Miller Park. At least it will make it easier for all us Cub fans to descend upon the joint once again to drink your Leinies, eat your brats and generally act like assclowns.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
I mean this in peace.
Let me preface this by saying I mean this in peace.
Go away. You’re trolling on an opposing team’s blog and you know it.
I mean this in peace.
by Noah Jarosh on Dec 13, 2011 9:08 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
with all due respect
Mr. Dennit, with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on.~
You realize that the Brewers had Casey McGehee and Yuni Betancourt as their starters last year right?
Scaring us with “HES BAD AT DEFENSE” will not work very well.
by cwolf20 on Dec 13, 2011 9:14 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Cubs are in for a long-term building job
You’re absolutely right. The Cubs are going to be terrible in 2012. But the future looks bright for the first time since Dallas Green was in charge. We’ve got a craptacular farm system and a rotten big league roster other than a few intriguing pieces in Garza, Castro, Marshall, Carpenter.
That said, I don’t know how a Brewer fan can feel good about 2012. That’s not trolling but merely stating a fact.
Reds pick up a good starting pitcher and they shall be the team to watch in this division. ANd I wouldn’t discount the Redbirds just yet.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
The "merely stating a fact" part of your statement was...misleading.
There’s no fact there. An opinion, yes. It’s kind of a complete thought, sure. But a fact? No.
by kotsaythebuzzkill on Dec 13, 2011 9:31 PM CST up reply actions
So what you're saying is that the Brewers are at the top unless the Reds get a starting pitcher?
And the Cardinals could be good, too? But Brewers fans shouldn’t feel good about 2012?
If I had to pick the 2012 race today???
1. St. Louis
2. Cincy
3. Milwaukee
4. Pittsburgh
5. Chicago
6. Houston
I think the Brewers struggle to play .500 ball next season. Honest answer. If there was one other NL Central team I was forced to root for, it would be Milwaukee. I love your ballpark and your fans. I also think Doug Melvin is one of the more underrated guys in baseball even in spite of his investment in the Dog that is Aramis Ramirez.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Don't underestimate the losses to your pen
Also, Greinke is an immense talent but delicate as a flower. If he ain’t happy then his history suggests a sulking pitcher who sucks on the mound. I reference his yo-yo existence in Kansas City in that regard.
Lineup? Way, way, way too right handed if you ask me. Hence why the smart move, in my view, would have been investment in a Mike Cuddyer type instead of A-Ram. It would have balanced your lineup out without compromising defense, assuming of course somebody like Hart could shift to 1st base. Also, this Braun thing looms humongously over the franchise. Its a real big deal if he misses 50 games. The same would hold true if we were talking Minnesota and the guy in question was Joe Mauer.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
The bullpen has a full year of K-Rod and a returning Braddock.
Those two, along with Jose Veras should make up pretty well for losing LaTroy Hawkins and 25 innings of Takashi Saito.
We have no reason to believe Greinke is unhappy. If anything, he will probably be better due to a better defense behind him.
Nobody knows what’s happening with Braun.
The lineup is pretty right handed. It’s also very, very talented.
To say the Brewers are going to be under or around .500 is close to the foolishness levels of Steve Berthiume picking the Astros to win the central in 2011.
by Noah Jarosh on Dec 13, 2011 9:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You'll have to explain that lineup to me...
Rickie Weeks is a great underrated talent. But Corey Hart is prone to wild swings in his performance year to year. You guys caught lightning in a bottle with Tony Plush, but there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s just that he won’t do THAT again I’m reasonably sure. Mat Gamel smells like Micah Hoffpauir to me. LuCroy is good ballplayer. Ramirez will dog his way to good offensive numbers. Gonzalez is an automatic out.
But the bigger issue??? How do you replace the enormous contributions of Prince Fielder from the left side of the plate. He was a guy that every opponent game planned against. And both Prince and Braun benefited from each other’s presence.
I look at the Cardinals and I see a team that can better weather the storm of losing Hall of Famer Albert Pujols. Holliday and Berkman can still rake, plus they have other pieces that will help manufacture runs. They won’t have a prolific offense by any stretch, but I think they will be better off in this regard versus Milwaukee given the loss of Fielder.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Nyjer Morgan is in a platoon.
He only plays against right handed pitchers, against whom he has a .310/.363/.401 career line. Carlos Gomez plays against lefties. Gomez being the best defensive outfielder in baseball makes up for his offensive deficiencies.
Ryan Braun is Ryan Braun
Corey Hart has OPS’d .865 and .866 the past two years. Can he be prone to streakiness? Yeah, but he very rarely goes on a prolonged cold streak and will occasionally go on an absolute tear with the bat. He does have some wild swings, but his results speak for themselves and he has really improved his plate discipline.
Aramis Ramirez has had one bad offensive year since 2004, in 2010 (when he still had a .321 wOBA). He has been above a .373 wOBA for seven of the last eight years. He’s hit over 25 HR eight of the last nine years. He’s a really good hitter.
Alex Gonzalez isn’t a good hitter, but he’s not a downgrade from 2010 (when the Brewers won how many games?) and could be an improvement. He can hit homeruns, at least, and should have some decent power now that he’s hitting in Miller Park. Besides, his glove is what the Brewers really wanted. He’s a clear big upgrade.
Rickie Weeks is awesome. Even you admit that.
Mixed reviews on Gamel. But the Brewers can try him, Green, and Ishikawa if necessary. I’m guessing they’ll be able to get league average production from the position at least. I, personally, believe that Gamel will surprise and have a very good season next year.
Jonathan Lucroy is improving. He hasn’t been the best hitter, and he won’t be next year. But he hits decently enough for a catcher and provides good defense behind home plate. If I remember correctly, he was pretty near the top in catcher framing.
So, yeah, the Brewers lineup is fine.
Also, Berkman is going to experience a pretty big dropoff next year. He’ll probably hit well for the first month or two again, and then fall off a clip.
by Noah Jarosh on Dec 13, 2011 10:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The Brewers don't have to make up the loss of Fielder with just one player
Gonzalez and Ramirez are both big upgrades to what we had last season. Even if Gamel is average, those three will be able to make up the loss of Fielder.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Losses to the pen?
The Brewers will have Axford and K-Rod holding down the eighth and ninth innings this year – if you can think of a better back end of a bullpen in the division, I’d love to hear it.
2011 FIPs of the four Brewers relievers who will get the highest-leverage innings this year:
2.41 (Axford)
2.72 (K-Rod)
3.50 (Veras)
2.80 (Loe)
Yeah, the pen will be fine. Also, what Noah said.
by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 13, 2011 9:48 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The lineup is too right-hand heavy
so the answer is getting a guy like Cuddyer…who’s right-handed?
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
by Rubie Q on Dec 13, 2011 10:11 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 8 recs
Why do you keep saying our lineup is too "right-handed"?
Do you realize that we’ll have as many LHBs on our roster as we did on Opening Day last season?
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
by sjlee on Dec 14, 2011 1:01 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Why do you keep saying that Greinke isn't happy?
Did you read that stupid post that falsely assumed Greinke wanted a trade? He dropped his agent in spring… IMMEDIATELY AFTER GETTING TRADED TO MILWAUKEE. He’s perfectly content. The only thing we have reason to believe that he’s unhappy about is his numbers from last year.
by tcyoung on Dec 14, 2011 9:11 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You don't see how a Brewer fan can feel good?
They lose Prince, Betancourt and McGehee, but gain Ramirez and Gonzalez. They have a very similar pitching staff to the team that won 96 games the year before.
But yeah, it’s doom and gloom over here.
by cwolf20 on Dec 14, 2011 8:08 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Please, say one good word about anyone on the Cubs not named Starlin Castro.
I live in Chicago, and for the most part, your fan base seems pathetically bitter at being passed up by the entire division except Houston. It’s evident in the way you’ve all changed your attitude about the roster, and yes, some of it is valid, but not all of it. The only player who seems to be escaping the criticism are Castro, and that’s mostly because he is young and represents a new era in Cubs baseball.
Here’s the thing, the new era won’t mean shit, because if you wonder why the Bears, Bulls(lately), and Cubs never win anything, it’s because you treat your athletes like shit. That’s also why they leave when they get the chance, and why hometown kids like Dwyane Wade don’t come play here.
Packers: Working on a dynasty.
Blackhawks: Taking care of business as usual.
Badgers:Back-to-back B1G Champions!
Brewers: Move along, nothin' to see here.
Well here's the thing...
My biggest allegiance is to the Blackhawks and we just hoisted a Cup and are in line to do so again this year or soon.
Bears? A clusterfuck is the best word to describe. Until the McCasket family fires Jerry Angelo there really is no hope.
Bulls? I don’t care about the NBA just like the growing majority of of the American public. Its a sport about to enter serious crisis mode.
Cubs? Yes, I feel good about the long term now that we have competent front office people in place and an owner willing to build this thing the right way.
Starlin Castro? He is an immense offensive talent that will not stick at shortstop. And yes, he is a hack.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Seriously???
I also find it hilarious how you crackers think Tony Plush is the second coming of Rickie Hendersen in his prime, and how Prince’s ENORMOUS presence in your lineup won’t really be missed.
I mean seriously? Just gtfo…
That dog just won't hunt.
by Bush League All Star on Dec 13, 2011 10:21 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
lol
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 14, 2011 1:36 AM CST up reply actions
Well said
I find it hilarious when people who clearly don’t know jack about the Brewers dismiss 2011 as the result of a bunch of ‘career years’ from the roster. It is completely untrue. What are we the freaking Diamondbacks?
by Tristram28 on Dec 13, 2011 9:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Ramirez not being great at defense isn't really something new.
He’s always been bad, according to UZR. He’s had one positive UZR year, in 2007.
Brauns' fine
A little herpes isn’t going to keep someone on the sidelines
Mark Attanasio is the best.
You believe what you want to believe
Whatever gets you through the night.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Man, don't even let it get to you.
A Cubs fan bashing The Brewers/ their fans is like a Milli Vanilli fan ragging a Beatles fan. The Brewers are so far above the Cubs and this guy knows it. Nothing but sour grapes.
by kotsaythebuzzkill on Dec 13, 2011 9:26 PM CST up reply actions
That's funny
And I got to like a guy who has Mark Friggin Kotsay as part of his name. You might want to check out his wife someday. Mark did well for himself.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
My perception of Ramirez is that he's a very shy person.
And then, I’d also like to thank you for coming over here. I do have one point to make, though; I don’t think this is necessarily a doom-and-gloom situation. We’ve improved our defense, we’ve got nice pitching . . . It will just be different. From an emotional perspective, it’s sort of eerie to have such a different line-up.
I’m not wild about Aramis hitting in the 4-spot, and don’t expect him to be more than what he is. He’s going to help us put up some extra runs, but I don’t expect him to have to fit into the ‘Braun/Ramirez’ role, in place of Prince. If you look at some of our old, scrappy line-ups earlier in the decade – the decade prior to this one, yikes – - this one is so much better, and we’ve got no reason to feel sorry for ourselves. I think we did an okay job.
*To go back to my observation in the subject line, do you think it’s an accurate to say Aramis is kind of shy? I know he’s a pretty bad 3rd baseman, and it’s too early to worry about him not putting in a full effort. If it happens, then I’ll be critical. We’ll see. Have fun with the new front office – that’s got to be exciting for Cubs fans. Hopefully, the team will stop under-achieving so we can have a rivalry that doesn’t just involve two groups of fans. Brewers/Cubs!
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Dec 13, 2011 7:58 PM CST up reply actions
The thing about A-Ram
He may not be good defensively, but the chair I’m sitting on right now would be better defensively than McGehee was last year… Huge improvement defensively and the offense shouldn’t lose as much as I originally expected them to.
I’d love to see Cuddyer but its not happening and Corey won’t play 1b.
"I'm here to talk about the economy today -- about the need to get four quarters of strong, consistent performance. That wasn't another Jay Cutler joke, I swear. It could be, but it's not."
Sigh
Once again, McGehee was not bad defensively last season. He was horrible at the plate, but his UZR/150 was 7.3.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Not really into the advanced stats
but you don’t need advanced stats to know he was bad. Just watch a game… Him and Betancourt were probably one of the worst defensive left sides of the infield of all time.
"I'm here to talk about the economy today -- about the need to get four quarters of strong, consistent performance. That wasn't another Jay Cutler joke, I swear. It could be, but it's not."
That's the great thing about advanced stats
They tell you how a player actually performed instead of how he appeared to perform.
In any case, I’m not advocating that McGehee is a great defensive player… just that if you want criticize his defense, last season is not a good example. In addition, Ramirez isn’t much (if any) of an improvement defensively.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
UZR is not a particularly good metric
Especially for a single season. It’s not even a great measure of what exactly happened.
by cwolf20 on Dec 14, 2011 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
It certainly has uses
And I would take it over errors/fielding percentage, but really all I use UZR for is saying whether a player is a plus or minus defender.
Gross inconsistencies
There are simply some people that just don’t pass the smell test. It doesn’t invalidate the statistic entirely, and like I said, it’s still way better than errors/fielding percentage.
I think a lot of people use even 3 years of UZR as a bit too certain of a player’s capabilities.
I’ll see if I can find some of the articles detailing the issues with UZR. A major gripe is that it simply throws out data that involves a heavy shift.
I’m curious what field fx has to say about defense, but it doesn’t look like the public is going to see that for a long time.
I think a lot of the issue stems from sample sizes
By the time 3 years of data is collected (the equivalent of one season of hitting data), a player’s defensive true talent can change significantly. This is especially true of players at around the age of 30.
In the fangraphs primer, they even say it’s not that great of a measure of what actually happened on the field that season due to data collection issues. It’s more of a reference tool, in my opinion, to help you along.
I have a really hard time assigning concrete values to something that has significant issues with data collection errors.
Don't take offense to this, but have you considered that his issues were caused by the Cubs?
I think he accepted that he’d never win in Chicago. Combine that with the fact that there has been no accountability on that team in years, and you end up with guys not giving it their all.
The Brewers, my friend, are not the Cubs.
Packers: Working on a dynasty.
Blackhawks: Taking care of business as usual.
Badgers:Back-to-back B1G Champions!
Brewers: Move along, nothin' to see here.
Know what, I read more of your posts in this thread.
Do take offense to that. Your favorite team is a laughing stock, and that won’t change any time soon.
Packers: Working on a dynasty.
Blackhawks: Taking care of business as usual.
Badgers:Back-to-back B1G Champions!
Brewers: Move along, nothin' to see here.
by Tepo6688 on Dec 13, 2011 9:27 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
So to summarize...
We overpaid for Ramirez, Braun got busted for PEDs and we signed a crappy SS?
Come in peace? Please.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Don't forget
We are soooo crap that the only way to solve our rightie heavy line-up is by signing a right-handed hitter. That’s how seriously fucked up our team is.
"I love it when any team called 'The Brew Crew' wins": Tad Kubler
"LOLOL I LOVE YUNI!!!!": ThroughBeingCool
it's definitely an old starting lineup
other than the fact that every guy is under 33 other than the left side of the IF, and everyone else is 30 or under other than Morgan
The $4.25M was shocking to see.
It would have been less of a surprise if I weren’t watching the payroll as though I were back taking Chemistry Lab.
(My lab partner started a fire, and then I made sure to keep track of everything people were adding to assignments, so they wouldn’t add too many ingredients. And I got the name “The Ultimate Worrier Girl” . . . I’ll stop it right there).
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Dec 13, 2011 8:08 PM CST up reply actions
Honors Chemistry was AWESOME in high school
I can’t believe they let high school students do the things we did. Mixing poisonous gases (use the fume hood!), using a torch to combust a gumball (sugar burns with a white hot flame!) and then someone set the sink on fire (sodium metal doesn’t get washed down the drain!). That doesn’t count the various bits of burning clothing and splashes of acid that shouldn’t get on clothing.
I may have more fond memories of high school chemistry than any other class I had.
Again,
Mark A. allowed Doug E. Fresh the payroll to end up upgrading the roster in spite of losing one of the franchises two best players of the last twenty years.
Not my money. Don’t give a fuck.
fka "warwick5s"
Thanks
You’ve just reminded me of the other week when the TV show I was watching had vintage footage of Doug E Fresh and Slick Rick doing The Show. Quality stuff…
"I love it when any team called 'The Brew Crew' wins": Tad Kubler
"LOLOL I LOVE YUNI!!!!": ThroughBeingCool
Has anyone else commented on the fact that aramis is only making 6 million in his first year? and the deal is for 36 million?
or did I miss something?
It's one way to keep budget in control a bit for 2012.
Depending on how the Brewers manage things, 2014 might not look too nice, though.
oh exactly.
things could get nasty in 2 years, but then again there are a million different things that can happen between then and now.
Of those million things that can happen.
I want to see a Brewers World Series victory.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
I think they've pretty much set up the team to have 2014 be the rebuilding year
Isn’t a substantial portion of their young core is signed through 2013? I think they’ll have payroll space to cover the $6 million for Ramirez in 2014. They would be looking at trying to re-sign Gallardo, Weeks and Hart at free agent level compensation. Gennett will be ready so Weeks won’t get an offer, Morgan won’t be making a ton of money and they’ll have Schafer ready to take Hart’s place. Gamel, if he pans out, will still be affordable in 2014. They’ll have some of their young pitching available to fill out most of a rotation.
2014 will be about watching a bunch of young guys working their way into MLB form for a run in 2015. They can afford Ramirez’s deferred money in 2014.
The super-rebuilding year at this point looks like 2014, yes
2013 has the potential to be a rebuilding year.
This signals to me that The Brewers plan on trading for a SS if things don't work this season.
There are no free agent options next offseason (Aybar is the only one), and there are no internal options. Halfway through the year Milwaukee will have a decision to make. Go for it all with the lineup that they currently have, or slash payroll and restock the team for the next couple years.
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Cincinnati
|
25 | 20 | .555 | 0 | Lost 1 |
|
St. Louis
|
25 | 21 | .543 | 0.5 | Lost 2 |
|
Houston
|
22 | 23 | .488 | 3 | Won 4 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
21 | 24 | .466 | 4 | Won 1 |
|
Milwaukee
|
19 | 26 | .422 | 6 | Won 2 |
|
Chicago
|
15 | 30 | .333 | 10 | Lost 10 |
(updated 5.26.2012 at 6:00 PM CDT)
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