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Around SBN: Trent Richardson Interviews Fellow Brown Brandon Weeden

They're quoting sources directly connected with MLB as saying "The medication contained banned substances resulting in the positive test."

5 months ago Newavatar_tiny Kyle Lobner 54 comments 0 recs  | 

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Let's assume this is true...

According to the story, the postitive test was because the medication he took contained banned substances. While this may help in the court of public opinion, my understanding of the drug policy is that he would still be subject to suspension since one or more of the indgredients was on the banned list. Am I missing something here?

by Infield Fly Rule on Dec 19, 2011 8:00 AM CST reply actions  

No, I think you're probably right.

I’m guessing he would’ve needed a pre-approved exemption to be allowed to take the medication and not face penalties.

The only possible exception might (and this is a long shot) be if he attempted to talk to someone with MLB or a trainer to ask if the medication would cause him to test positive, and was given bad information.

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Dec 19, 2011 8:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Are you talking about the "Drug" or an "Indgredient"?

I would assume that do not use list contains more “indgredients” rather than drugs themselves so that the list is more easily updated if needed.

by Infield Fly Rule on Dec 19, 2011 8:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Might also depend on if it was prescribed by a doctor and he had prior approval to take the medicine.

The weird thing to me is this…

If his first test was SUPER HIGH in testosterone and he took that test in October, how could his second test that he requested possibly have been dirty? I’ve read that it takes well over a month for that stuff to clear your system. There shouldn’t have been time for that to happen between the 2 tests.

I have no concept.

by menchkins on Dec 19, 2011 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Youre assuming that the first "dirty" test took place on the same day he took the meds

If he had prior approval this whole issue of guilt/innocence wouldnt even be raise, he would be absolved already.

If it takes a month to leave the system he could have taken this medication some time i September, gets tested in early October prompting the failed test, and then his 2nd “clean” test was some time late October….so that month would have already passed for it to leave the system.

by backtocali on Dec 19, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm assuming the resukt wiuldn't have been so high if whatever it was had been in his system for awhile.

Also, if it does take that long to leave the system he would have to have stopped taking whatever it was immediately after being tested. Not sure why he would do that.

As far as the prior approval thing, I was wondering if it’s possible that there was an ingredient in whatever he was taking that skewed the test results but was not on the banned substances list.

I have no concept.

by menchkins on Dec 19, 2011 1:58 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

If he can prove that there was no way he could possibly have known that banned substances were in his medication

then he’s fine.

MLB’s Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Policy calls for strict liability among players, meaning if a player tests positive, the league is “not required to otherwise establish intent, fault, negligence or knowing use of a Prohibited Substance on the Player’s part to establish such a violation.”

Even if a player can establish he did not knowingly take a banned substance, he must show he was not in any way negligent to appeal successfully. For example, taking a dietary supplement that contains an unlabeled performance-enhancing drug would not be sufficient grounds for appeal, but if he were to show that he ingested something that was either tampered with or no player reasonably could have assumed to have been contaminated, the appeal might succeed.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 19, 2011 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Great news if true

At this point I don’t really care about a suspension. I would gladly take it for a clean(ish) reputation.

by E Tyme on Dec 19, 2011 8:47 AM CST via mobile reply actions   1 recs

I still care about the suspension

but given that he’s extremely likely to get suspended regardless of the reason, it’s good to know it wasn’t premeditated.

by ecocd on Dec 19, 2011 8:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Rumor

I don’t come around these parts very often anymore, so forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but I heard this rumor last week and think there might be something to it.

I won’t comment on the exact nature of the issue, but the meds are apparently related o suppressed estrogen levels, not high testosterone. Same effect on the ratio though, which triggered the investigation.

"You guys know me. I take a long time to analyze things."
- Ned Yost

by SunglassesAtNight on Dec 19, 2011 9:15 AM CST via mobile reply actions   1 recs

I wonder if there if there can be an exception for legit medical treatment

I hope this is true first step to Braun getting his name back. Notice that ESPN is not racing breathlessly to report this like they did when the story first broke

"It's a joke. It's all a joke.

by WSB Chris on Dec 19, 2011 10:28 AM CST reply actions  

Manny Ramirez supposedly had a legit medical issue in his first case

I doubt it, because Braun still should have known what he was putting into his body, and even if it was unkowingly, he still had an elevated level of testosterone, which gave him an unfair edge.

by backtocali on Dec 19, 2011 11:12 AM CST up reply actions  

That unfair edge is pretty negligible IMO

Sure he might have had an unfair advantage in the playoffs, and that is pretty damn notable, but he hadn’t had that same advantage throughout the regular season, as he had been tested negative. And considering that he still played very well throughout the negative season, and that he didn’t play extraordinarily better in the playoffs, that edge is negligible.

Go ahead, make my day.

by ilikeburritos on Dec 19, 2011 11:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Well

We dont know when his tests during the regular season were. We know he was tested twice, but for all we know a situation could have taken place where the 2nd test was some time in July perhaps, he gets this “medical condition” in August, and is taking meds through the end of the season.

And he did test higher than anyone ever tested, twice the amount, so I would say there was probably a considerable advantage there. Could very well be why he has such an insane post season.

by backtocali on Dec 19, 2011 11:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Bingo

"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa

by mnbrewer on Dec 19, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

It was tested by two seperate sources

And came up dirty on both, so its highly unlikely.

And that test doesnt have errors, many many people have stated so that are intricately involved with testing.

by backtocali on Dec 19, 2011 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Trollin' hard today, eh?

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Dec 19, 2011 12:35 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

So if/when Braun is found to be in violation of the drug policy

Does this comment get taken back?

You’re a lawyer, right? I would say that my point of view on this is the way an legal expert would state things as well, with what we know.

by backtocali on Dec 19, 2011 12:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I am a lawyer.

And with the little evidence we have, I don’t know that a legal expert would say things like:

he still had an elevated level of testosterone, which gave him an unfair edge
And he did test higher than anyone ever tested, twice the amount, so I would say there was probably a considerable advantage there. Could very well be why he has such an insane post season.
And that test doesnt have errors

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Dec 19, 2011 12:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not a lawyer

but I wouldn’t make any absolute statements about a bunch of hearsay shit that we read via unnamed sources.

Maybe that’s just me, though.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 19, 2011 3:55 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Could you name them please?

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 19, 2011 4:29 PM CST up reply actions  

We don't know if he had "an elevated level of testosterone."

Or at least I haven’t seen anything concluding that. What we do have is that his testosterone/epi ratio triggered the positive test. As others have noted, the medication or substance in question could have supressed the epi levels which obviously positively affect the ratio.

Let’s wait until we have all the facts before we pass judgment and engage in revisionist history.

by kmals on Dec 19, 2011 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes, this.

Based on what’s been reported, it’s a ratio that was thrown off, so either the numerator was increased or the denominator was decreased or both. We don’t know which.

by placidity on Dec 19, 2011 12:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Which is actually pretty interesting to think about...

Maybe his testosterone levels were super low, giving him a disadvantage = )

I have no concept.

by menchkins on Dec 19, 2011 2:01 PM CST up reply actions  

At least someone reported it, and not some commenter

But considering the source, I’ll hold off on any optimism.

"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
BCB Fantasy Football League 1 Champ

by Hyatt on Dec 19, 2011 10:36 AM CST reply actions  

I know what you're saying

but TMZ reported Michael Jackson’s death first, the Tiger Woods ‘accident’ first (IIRC) among other things.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 19, 2011 3:59 PM CST up reply actions  

And the Manny Ramirez domestic violence case, I think?

FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.

by Jess'HittheBall on Dec 19, 2011 4:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm getting pretty sick of these "sources" leaking things

out before the whole story is available to the public.

All is vanity.

by levnclf on Dec 19, 2011 12:02 PM CST reply actions  

Still hope for a 'clean' braun?

Delusional.

Guy is going for 50 games. Accept it and get on with your life.

by tuna411 on Dec 20, 2011 2:37 AM CST up reply actions  

This was a great post, thanks!

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 20, 2011 2:50 AM CST up reply actions  

You're a clown.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 20, 2011 10:26 AM CST up reply actions  

When did I ever say anything about whether or not I hope he's clean? Obviously, I hope he's clean, because I'm a Brewer fan.

I was just commenting on how the story is playing out. You, on the other hand, clearly had something to say, but nobody to say it to, so you just plopped your shit down whereever you saw fit. Thanks for the well-placed, on-topic reply!

by tcyoung on Dec 23, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

I have an autographed Frank Thomas card that I got as a gift when I was younger...

If it weren’t a gift, and didn’t have the autograph, I’d rip it up : (

*Actually, think ink on the card probably decreased its value. Screw that guy.

FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.

by Jess'HittheBall on Dec 19, 2011 8:29 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

You've got to give Frank a break though.

If he was clean, and from all appearances and information that I’ve heard he was, he lost a lot because he played in the steroid era. He’s got pretty good reason to be bitter about their use.

"fortunate, but also lucky"

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 19, 2011 8:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe.

But I’ve always gotten the impression that Thomas and Griffey Jr. were the only stars of their generation most people thought were clean. He’s probably aware that that’s his reputation too.

"fortunate, but also lucky"

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 19, 2011 9:25 PM CST up reply actions  

In which case

in my opinion, he should be more wary of nailing someone up on a crucifix due to a ‘leak’ which was a breach of the JDA. Not to mention going farther and saying it should have been ‘leaked’ earlier.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 19, 2011 9:34 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Probably.

But I think the opposite reaction is pretty human too. If people think he was clean, he probably thinks that the people who are thought of as dirty generally are. I’m not saying I agree with him on Braun specifically given what’s increasingly sounding like a huge, unfortunate fuckup, just that I can understand why he feels the way he apparently does.

"fortunate, but also lucky"

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 19, 2011 9:47 PM CST up reply actions  

TMZ, can you please shut the fuck up?

When I want to know how many grams of fat are in Kim Kardahian’s ass, I’ll find you. But stay the fuck out of sports, thanks.

Packers: Working on a dynasty.
Blackhawks: Taking care of business as usual.
Badgers:Back-to-back B1G Champions!
Brewers: Move along, nothin' to see here.

by Tepo6688 on Dec 19, 2011 11:15 PM CST reply actions  

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