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Friday's Frosty Mug

Some things to read while getting sucked in.

We're 78 days away from pitchers and catchers reporting to Maryvale, and this morning we have news to report regarding Prince Fielder: Buster Olney is reporting that the Brewers have told Fielder they're willing to extend their offer to six years and $120 million (FanShot). As Jaymes Langrehr of The Brewers Bar notes, it's still unlikely this will be resolved anytime soon.

So it appears the Brewers have informed Fielder how much money they'll be willing to pay him, and for how long. However, it is apparently important to note that THIS IS NOT AN OFFER. The semantic differences here are really not significant to me, but apparently that's why I've got people calling me an idiot and accusing me of bad journalism on Twitter this morning.

Anyway, on to other speculation: MLB Trade Rumors is listing the Brewers as one of three teams (along with the Cardinals and Giants) interested in former Braves shortstop Alex Gonzalez. He posted a .270 OBP in Atlanta last season but would bring above average defense: He's been around +6 UZR/150 at shortstop in his career.

Elsewhere in shortstops: The Brewers have said they're unlikely to be interested, but sources in Japan indicate that they do intend to bid for the right to negotiate with shortstop Hiroyuki Nakajima. Noah translated the article in the comments of yesterday's Mug.

Meanwhile, we have an update on the condition of pitcher Santo Manzanillo, who was injured in a car accident earlier this week. The Brewers have changed the wording of his injury from a "separated" shoulder to a sprain and that sounds like good news, but Tom Haudricourt says "the change of wording from separation to sprain didn't mean it was less severe." He underwent an MRI and the results have been sent back to the US to be studied.

By this time next week the winter meetings will have wrapped up. Adam McCalvy has a preview of the events in Dallas.

This appears to have come out of nowhere, but I suppose it's possible: Jon Heyman is reporting the Brewers and Padres have shown interest in former Mets GM Omar Minaya. His tenure as a major league GM was much maligned, but he probably would have some value as an assistant to Doug Melvin. The speculation led to Miller Park Drunk spelling out his punctuation.

In the minors:

The Brewer Clubhouse Sale opened to the public this morning and continues through tomorrow. If you're still considering attending, John and Cait have a look at some of the items available.

Yesterday I mentioned that FanGraphs has opened their 2012 fan projections. Today they're asking for your help predicting the 2012 season of Ryan Braun and the other 2011 MLB award winners.

Our Brewer-by-Brewer look at the 2011 season continued yesterday with this profile of Casey McGehee. We still have a few players left to cover, so check back this afternoon to see who we're discussing today.

Around baseball:

Athletics: Signed outfielder Brandon Moss to a minor league deal.
Blue Jays: Signed pitcher Garrett Mock to a minor league deal.
Marlins: Signed closer Heath Bell to a three year, $27 million deal.
Orioles: Acquired catcher Taylor Teagarden from the Rangers for a minor league pitcher and a PTBNL and designated pitcher Pedro Viola for assignment.

On Monday we reported that Astros team president Tal Smith had decided to retire. As it turns out that's not exactly what happened: Smith was fired and given just two weeks' severance pay after working for the organization for 35 years. New owner Jim Crane is wasting no time making friends.

Today in former Brewers:

Finally, I wanted to take a moment this morning to thank all of you for stopping by. Sometime yesterday BCB passed ten million page views, which is a pretty cool round number. Next on the horizon is five million visits, which we should reach sometime in mid-2012.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to see this.

Drink up.

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The non-offer offer and 'bad journalism'

If they said that they would be willing to go up to $120MM/6, then either they are, or they aren’t. Either way it’s fair to say that they’re essentially offering to negotiate a contract in that range, because if they aren’t, then they lied that they were willing to. So it’s a de facto offer, whether they intend it to be or not.

by nullacct on Dec 2, 2011 10:48 AM CST reply actions   2 recs

Exactly

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 2, 2011 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, it's just an attempt at fence-straddling language.

Doesn’t make a whit of difference in the end, though.

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Dec 2, 2011 11:28 AM CST up reply actions  

That's not an offer though...

But yes, I don’t see how it matters for the purposes of Brewers-chat.

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 2, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions  

I think it's more semantics on the journalist's side.

Best way I can think of it is like this. Doug Melvin sitting with a reporter (with Fielder & Boras nowhere nearby) saying that “We’d be willing to go to 6 years / $120 million” isn’t an official formal offer yet since it hasn’t been presented to Fielder, and the journalist reporting the willingness to make the offer isn’t an official formal offer. However, if Melvin has Fielder & Boras in the room and says “We’d be willing to go to 6 years / $120 million”, then that would be an official formal offer. The word formal is also probably part of it, because a formal offer might involve a contract while an informal one would not, though there would be no difference/minimal difference in money offered.

In the end, it’s mainly the reporters covering themselves. They just don’t want to be misquoted.

(Also, sorry that you have to deal with all of this. It’s a lot of negative criticism for something that doesn’t seem as big as people are making it.)

Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector

by -JP- on Dec 2, 2011 11:37 AM CST up reply actions  

It's not just semantics, there's a huge difference between an offer and negotiations

Teams/agents/players discuss money all the time. Melvin has probably discussed money extensively with Jose Reyes. That doesn’t mean he’s made an actual offer.

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 2, 2011 11:39 AM CST up reply actions  

It's not just semantics for them, sure.

I think it’s just semantics for us, though.

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Dec 2, 2011 11:40 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I can see what you're saying there as well.

Now I’m thinking about fantasy baseball, if I were to say that “I’m willing to trade Roy Halladay for Ryan Braun” in a league where I owned Roy Halladay, but I don’t make an official trade offer, I would just say it to Ryan Braun’s owner in that league. There’s nothing official to accept, but I’ve made it known what I’m willing to do.

Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector

by -JP- on Dec 2, 2011 11:46 AM CST up reply actions  

Hm
MILW last formal offer to Prince Fielder was 5/100, but as part of current talks, they’ve let it be known that they could stretch to 6/120.

So, Prince and Scott aren’t anywhere nearby, but who is it that they’ve ‘let it be known’ to?

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 2, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

My advice to you, Mr. Lebowski?

GET A JOB SIR.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 2, 2011 11:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Comma?

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 2, 2011 11:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Ok, now I don't know what's really happening.

I don’t really know anymore, I’m just going to go with it being journalists protecting what they’ve said so they don’t get misquoted.

I’m just getting really confused now.

Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector

by -JP- on Dec 2, 2011 11:48 AM CST up reply actions  

It boils down to

what tcyoung said in the other thread. Olney doesn’t want a bunch of idiots saying ‘WTFLOL~!’ if the Brewers negotiate to, say $130M and he signs.

Although he’ll probably be more than willing to take credit for ‘first reporting the offer’ if the Brewers make a public release that they’ve offered 6/120.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 2, 2011 11:50 AM CST up reply actions  

6/120

I figured out how we can afford 6 years and $120,000,000 without hampering payroll – we will defer $80M over 40 years with no interest….

by Saberilliterate on Dec 2, 2011 11:05 AM CST reply actions  

Well, Prince's estrangement from his dad is, at least in part, due to fiscal matters, right?

Given that, I could see something not as extreme being effective in swaying Fielder. It would allow him to not really worry about financial security post-playing days.

by Noah Jarosh on Dec 2, 2011 11:35 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I don't understand the semantics here.

What the hell is the difference between “We’re offering you 6 years, 120 mil” and “We’re willing to go to 6 years, 120 mil”?

Like, if Boras had said “6 years, 120 mil?!? We’ll take it!” Melvin would’ve replied with “Whoa. Hold your horses there. I never said we were offering that to you!”.

Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.

by The Dayman on Dec 2, 2011 11:09 AM CST reply actions  

Yes, very possibly.

For example, if Prince has no other offers on the table for >$100 million right now, why would Melvin bid against himself and go to 6/$120? It’s an invitation for future negotiations so Prince doesn’t just sign some place else without talking to Milwaukee.

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 2, 2011 11:37 AM CST up reply actions  

That might also be a part of it.

Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector

by -JP- on Dec 2, 2011 11:39 AM CST up reply actions  

Its almost as if you have a dog in this fight.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 2, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Just not sure why people are acting like it is ridiculous to distinguish between an offer and negotiations, when they are very clearly distinct.

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 2, 2011 2:46 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not agreeing with you that there's a difference

I think it is semantics

But the way I imagine it is that Melvin said “we’re offering 5/100, but if it comes down to it, we could try to find a bit more. I think you’re going to make way more than that, but if the other offers come in and you find your high is at 120, please come back and let us know. We would try to figure out a way to go 6/120. We’re not going to lose you over that one year.”

Melvin’s hedging his bets. If the market doesn’t reach what we expect and somehow Prince signs with say the Cubs for 6/120, folks would be mighty upset if it come down to something as “small” as one year or $20 mill.

by Nicole Haase on Dec 2, 2011 5:41 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Yes

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 2, 2011 5:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Absolutely

But that’s not an offer. There is not an offer on the table at 6/$120.

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 3, 2011 2:06 AM CST up reply actions  

As much as I love Prince..

This ballclub would be much better off signing Reyes for 5/80 or maybe 6/90.

by jmag043 on Dec 2, 2011 11:11 AM CST reply actions  

"Let's suppose...

we were maybe hypothetically speaking, and there was possibly potentially $120 million maybe available for someone… is there any possible way you’d maybe be interested in considering in playing for the Brewers if there was any way possible that maybe that person was you?"

by junyer_mint on Dec 2, 2011 11:30 AM CST reply actions  

HEARD THIS:

Brewers alluded to existence of large pot of money, speculated it could contain as much as a hypothetical $120 million, and discussed the possibility of being willing to make an offer to a player like Fielder, although not necessarily Fielder.

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Dec 2, 2011 12:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Boras hears:

No less than $120M/6 for Fielder

by nullacct on Dec 2, 2011 1:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I imagine the conversation with Boras looking a little something like this.

Chief Wiggum: Uh, let me put it this way. I’m looking for my friend Bill.
[glances down at the cash box]
Chief Wiggum: Have you seen any Bills around here?
Homer: No.
[points to Bart]
Homer: He’s Bart.
Chief Wiggum: [groans] Listen carefully, and watch me wink as I speak, okay?
Homer: Okay.
Chief Wiggum: The guy I’m really looking for, wink,
[winks]
Chief Wiggum: is Mr. Bribe, wink, wink.
[winks twice]
Homer: It’s a ring toss game.
Chief Wiggum: All right, that’s it. I’m shutting this game down.

Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".

by Yar Nivek on Dec 2, 2011 5:35 PM CST up reply actions  

I think I get what you're saying.

[Sarcasm]

If the Brewers write a contract that gives Boras more money than he would get if Fielder signs elsewhere, then Fielder will sign with Milwaukee even though he’s getting less money.

[/Sarcasm]

(Ok, I don’t know if sarcasm is the right word for the above, but I just want to make it clear that I am not being serious with the above statement at all.)

Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector

by -JP- on Dec 2, 2011 6:05 PM CST up reply actions  

"You can't outsmart carnival folk."

(They’re the cleverest folk in the world. Just look at the way they sucker regular folk with their crooked games.)

FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.

by Jess'HittheBall on Dec 2, 2011 6:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Are 'page views' and 'visits' different things?

I don’t get how you got to 10 million yesterday, now 5 million is on the horizon.

"...just throw that pill over the plate and I'll make it happen." - Tony Plush

by thefreewheelin76 on Dec 2, 2011 11:37 AM CST reply actions  

They are.

If I visit BCB and click on four posts while I’m here, I count as four page views (actually five, since the homepage is counted, too) but one visit.

by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 2, 2011 11:42 AM CST up reply actions  

Interesting

but if I click on a link in the mug that takes me off site then hit ‘back’ that would be a new ‘visit’ right?

"...just throw that pill over the plate and I'll make it happen." - Tony Plush

by thefreewheelin76 on Dec 2, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions  

A propos of nothing

the Living Social deal in my inbox today was for a Concealed Carry Handgun Class. Just $69 down from $150.

At least they’ve made it illegal to carry in taverns.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 2, 2011 11:52 AM CST reply actions  

Minaya to Padres...

…as a talent evaluator and "sounding board’.

This is the Pads’ thank you for Omar sending them Heath Bell for a bag of balls.

by infield fly on Dec 2, 2011 12:17 PM CST reply actions  

I doubt he'll ever get a chance to run a team again

But Minaya clearly had some level of usefulness in a front office, or he never would’ve been elevated to the point where he got a chance. The same is probably true of Gord Ash.

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Dec 2, 2011 12:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Chris Capuano gets $10 million for 2 years from the Dodgers

Jayson Stark, Jim Bowden, and Jon Heyman are all reporting that over Twitter.

Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector

by -JP- on Dec 2, 2011 12:22 PM CST reply actions  

Nice deal

I think Capuano will prove to be well worth that contract. This wouldnt have been a bad move for the Brewers to make and would have given them just one more reason to trade Marcum.

by bklynbrewcrew on Dec 2, 2011 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Can't believe someone gave Cappy 2 years

But good for him, hard not to root for the guy

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Dec 2, 2011 1:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

He seems to have fully recovered from his last TJ surgery

He pitched about a 1/3rd of a season in 2010 with the Brewers and had an xFIP of 3.90, then last season he pitched the entire season with the Mets and had an xFIP of 3.67.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Dec 2, 2011 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, I agree, he is def worth a shot at that price

I’ve always hoped he’d find his way back to Milwaukee.

by kotsaythebuzzkill on Dec 2, 2011 4:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Still think its a matter of time

2 TJ surgeries, 33 years old.

Its not crazy money of course, but still pretty risky.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Dec 3, 2011 2:50 PM CST up reply actions  

reposting it from the other thread at the top
Haudricourt Tom
#Brewers Doug Melvin on his interest in Aramis Ramirez: “He has expressed interest in us, too. That’s something I always like to hear.”

I am too drunk to taste this chicken.

by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 2, 2011 1:54 PM CST reply actions  

Or conversely
Yuni has expressed interest in us. That’s something I don’t like hearing.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Dec 2, 2011 4:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I think this is more likely
Yuni has expressed interest in us. But don’t worry, that’s a one-way street.

by tcyoung on Dec 3, 2011 11:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Offer?

Heck, he’s telling the other teams Prince’s pen is hovering above the contract. Boras is practically pulling Prince’s arm back away from the paper because Fielder loves Milwaukee and his kids have made friends with the other teammates’ kids, BUT they might all find a way to love Washington D.C. if you could just find another $10 million in the budget somewhere.

by ecocd on Dec 2, 2011 11:44 PM CST up reply actions  

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