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Learning Not to Hate Aramis Ramirez

SAN DIEGO, CA - SEPTEMBER 27:  Aramis Ramirez #16 of the Chicago Cubs is welcomed into the dugout after hitting a solo home run during the fourth inning of a baseball game against the San Diego Padres at Petco Park on September 27, 2011 in San Diego, California.  (Photo by Denis Poroy/Getty Images)

The only two big name free agents linked to the Brewers so far during the winter meetings have been Jimmy Rollins and Aramis Ramirez. I'd much prefer pursuit of Rollins if the two look to be similarly expensive. But I'm starting to like the idea of Ramirez in the lineup if the alternative scenario of free agent spending is a couple of bullpen pieces and Yuni. The only problem is that, as a Brewer fan, I don't really like the guy so much. So, here I try to convince myself otherwise.

I think my dislike of the guy goes back to this game right here. I remember the smug little look on his face rounding the bases. Seeing that the Brewers record that day was 46-33 and the Cubs were .500, that makes a bunch of sense. And I don't think there was anything more frustrating that year than watching Turnbow get through a hold and then seeing Cordero blow a save.

For some reason I had this idea that Ramirez had a reputation as a bad clubhouse guy or something but my research seems to indicate that this is not necessarily the case. The only incident I found was this one right here, in which Ramirez was involved in a "scuffle" with Carlos Silva, which is probably to be looked at as commendable. That article makes specific note of the fact that Ramirez has been witness to many incidents in the volatile Cubs dugout but not been involved himself.

Ramirez is a heck of a hitter. He's not an awful defender at third base, but he's not good. Solidly below average seems to be the spot he's settled into as a defender. And if he's around for 3 years, it makes sense that he could play at first base if the need arises.

You don't give out a multi-year deal to a 32 year old corner infielder if you're not confident in his hitting abilities. He's a career .284/.342/.500 hitter and hit .306/.361/.510 last year. He's had an OBP over .350 every year since 2004 with the exception of his brutal campaign in 2010, when he was basically a replacement-level player.

I don't mind Ramirez for this team. But there are few players I don't like for this team at the right price. Overpaying would be a horrible idea, on a 3 year deal I think you can expect 2 quality years of 3-4 WAR and one year of below average production. That's value. But the reason I like Ramirez is because I think he's going to be something of a bargain, the Brewers are now one of the only teams being mentioned as a suitor now that the Phillies seem to have moved on.

Some people have commented on the potential imbalance that could be created by adding another righty bat, that's something I've never been particularly concerned with. A good hitter is a good hitter. If it means the team mashes lefties even more and righties a bit less, I'm confident it's going to balance out. It creates a team more vulnerable to particular matchups later in the season, but we're talking about building a contender right now, not worrying about matchup issues with Roy Halladay or Cliff Lee.

I'm reserving judgement until I see any dollar and year figures on a potential deal with Ramirez. I haven't even seen any sort of figures thrown around yet so it's tough to even know what we're dealing with. I would focus all energies on Rollins for now, but if he gets out of the price range the Brewers are looking at I certainly wouldn't panic if it looks like they're going to end up with Ramirez. Signing Ramirez and a solid defensive shortstop (like Alex Gonzalez), while shoring up the bullpen with a couple of small deals (like the one for Saito being rumored), would be a solid if not flashy offseason, and it would set up the Brewers for plenty of success. Ramirez is most likely an upgrade on 2009-2010 Casey McGehee, and if McGehee figures out how to hit again, there's always first base for one of them to find playing time.

The Brewers won 96 games with 5.8 WAR from their starting corner infielders-- 5.5 from Fielder, and .3 from McGehee. Ramirez and Gamel (with McGehee backing up) can do that. That gets us right back where we started, even bringing back (gasp!) Yuni on a cheap deal. Swing a deal at the trade deadline for a shortstop or bullpen help and we're talking about a World Series contender again.

Ramirez isn't the best course of action, but he's a heck of a lot better than nothing. Hopefully Doug Melvin can get him for a nice, small amount of money for a short amount of time-- if Rollins and some of the other free agents don't look to be options.

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Aramis

I actually dont hate the guy at all. I think he would give us at least 2 very good offensive years. I dont like hearing that he is below average defensively but at least that is still an upgrade over McGehee.

I would like to give Taylor Green the job at third but can understand the reluctance to start both Gamel and Green. If we could sign Ramirez and Furcal I would feel pretty good about things but if signing Ramirez means we have to bring back last years shortstop I will be vastly disappointed. I think we can free up enough money to sign Furcal by not bringing McGehee back and going with a cheaper bench and bullpen.

by bklynbrewcrew on Dec 7, 2011 1:17 PM CST reply actions  

Am I the only one who liked Aramis Ramirez on the Cubs?

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 1:53 PM CST reply actions  

Never liked a Cubs player

but I have always thought that Ramirez was a really good hitter and never liked seeing him come up in big situations against the Brewers.

by bklynbrewcrew on Dec 7, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

A-Ram and Derrek Lee always seemed alright

On the other end of the spectrum: Carlos Zambrano and Reed Johnson.

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 2:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah I liked him too.

A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.

by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I would feel a lot better about Ramirez if I had any idea what the heck happened to him in 2010.

I wasn’t paying close attention to the Cubs that year (because they sucked), but dang, that is a bizarre, ugly line in the middle of an otherwise fine run.

by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 7, 2011 3:04 PM CST reply actions  

Shoulder

From everything that I read, he had a shoulder injury in 2009 that effected his swing in 2010

by Saberilliterate on Dec 7, 2011 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah shoulder...

I can see the play in my head. Diving for a grounder, I think.

A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.

by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 3:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Just to be clear...

Ramirez + SS option (Yuni?)
…or…
McGehee/Green/Gamel (possibilities) + Rollins

I don’t hate Aramis. The guy would just kill the Brewers though. I wouldn’t mind him on the team to answer the question. :)

That dog just won't hunt.

by Bush League All Star on Dec 7, 2011 3:05 PM CST reply actions  

I think what upsets me is not Ramirez himself

It’s that replacement level for 3B is not true replacement level for the Brewers. Green/McGehee could easily post a 3 WAR season between them, and have a floor of about 1 WAR.

SS replacement level is Edwin Maysonet, who is below or directly at regular replacement level.

Spending 15 million for a 1-2 WAR upgrade at 3B is a waste of money, when 15 million brings a 3-4 WAR upgrade at SS.

by cwolf20 on Dec 7, 2011 3:11 PM CST reply actions  

True

But a lineup that looks something like:

Hart
Morgan/Gomez
Braun
Weeks
Ramirez
Gamel/McGehee
Lucroy
SSTBNL
P

Doesn’t look half bad when you write it out. But I definitely agree with the premise that those $15MM would add more marginal wins at SS than 3B, but there just might not be a $15MM SS left available to the Brewers. I’m still crossing my fingers Alex Gonzalez will end up here.

by mpbMKE on Dec 7, 2011 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I disagree that Green/McGehee have a 1 WAR floor

McGehee posted a WAR of either 0.1 (Fangraphs) or -1.0 (B-Ref) in 2011, and we have no real assurance that he’s going to make a significant bounce-back next year. And while I think Green will be a decent MLB hitter, it’s very possible that he could flounder next year as he adjusts to big-league pitching. I’d put the floor for those two around 0 WAR and the realistic expectation around 2 WAR.

by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 7, 2011 3:44 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Easily? Did you watch McGehee play last year?

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 4:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Sure, he's quite a ways from "easily" getting back there though.

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 8:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Remember, I said the combo *could* easily do it

Perhaps the phrasing is incorrect, as I’m leaning towards “it’s definitely possible” that the combo could do that. YB, on the other hand, caps at a ceiling of 1.5 WAR, and that’s extremely generous.

Either way, replacement level is significantly higher at 3B than at SS.

by cwolf20 on Dec 7, 2011 11:48 PM CST up reply actions  

The fact that they are even exploring this idea

Shows me the faith the Org has in McGehee next year.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Dec 7, 2011 3:48 PM CST reply actions  

I still want Aramis more than Rollins

I feel like Rollins is more injury prone, and not good enough defensively to make up for the lack of offense he’d bring that Aramis could. I feel like Aramis + Yuni/Alex G is a better option for the team. Just me though. Plus after the 1st year they could Trade Gamel and move Aramis to 1st.

(Verb) you cardinals.

by Taterwithbacon on Dec 7, 2011 3:50 PM CST reply actions  

Oh I was at that 2007 game with the walk-off

Might have been the worst sporting event I’ve ever seen in person.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Dec 7, 2011 3:50 PM CST reply actions  

Nah man I was at Wrigley this summer

when Castro hit a walkoff double in the bottom of the eleventh. And the Brewers had been up all game. I was like, “Here comes their best hitter,” and BLAM! Worst subway ride ever, considering it was filled to capacity by Cubs fans.

A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.

by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 3:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Ha, was at that game too

Everyone else in my group wanted to leave in the 10th, so I left with them. Glad I did.

I’d still argue 2007 was much, much worse because the Cubs were really good that year and packed the stadium full of obnoxious fans. Wrigley was half full this year and nobody actually cared about them.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Dec 7, 2011 4:11 PM CST up reply actions  

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