Wednesday's Frosty Mug
by Kyle Lobner on Dec 7, 2011 10:35 AM CST
in Milwaukee Brewers News
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PrintSome things to read with one cold foot.
We're 73 days away from pitchers and catchers reporting to Maryvale, but we're still no closer to knowing what the 2012 Brewers will look like. Doug Melvin told reporters he didn't meet with any player agents or other GMs at the Winter Meetings yesterday and has no offers pending, leading me to wonder why he's there at all.
With that said, apparently after that conversation things changed. Jon Heyman tweeted last night that Mark Attanasio met with Prince Fielder's representatives yesterday, and Doug Melvin said the two sides had a spur-of-the-moment discussion after Scott Boras contacted him.
Here are the rest of today's Fielder notes:
- Mariners GM Jack Zduriencik is still downplaying his club's interest in Fielder, but has met with Scott Boras to discuss possibilities.
- Bruce Miles of the Chicago Daily Herald thinks the Cubs should be pursuing Fielder, not Albert Pujols.
- Yesterday I mentioned that Fielder was part of a weird list of players with an unknown common bond on High Heat Stats. It turns out he's one of six NL players to make his major league debut as a DH.
Elsewhere in free agency: Peter Gammons reported last night that Francisco Rodriguez will decline the Brewers' arbitration offer, eliminating the risk that the Brewers would owe a setup man eight figures next season (FanShot). Tom Haudricourt says Rodriguez could break the Brewer budget by accepting their offer. K-Rod is still looking for an opportunity to pitch the ninth inning and Jayson Stark has a list of five teams still looking for a closer (although two of them are K-Rod's former employers), plus two more "dabbling" in the market.
Another reliever will likely return, though: Tom Haudricourt said last night he expects the Brewers to bring back Takashi Saito for another season (FanShot). Saito will turn 42 in February and pitched just 26.2 innings in 2011 but has a 2.18 ERA over his six seasons as a major leaguer.
It's hard to believe there's much interest in the marketplace for Yuniesky Betancourt, and it's also hard to believe this will help: Agent Jamie Torres told the media Betancourt is willing to play second base if interested teams would prefer to have him there, and "wouldn't be surprised" if his client has a new deal before the meetings wrap up tomorrow.
Meanwhile, the Brewers remain a contender for Aramis Ramirez, with agent Paul Kinzer saying the team is a favorite to sign him at this point. Ken Rosenthal is reporting that the Phillies have backed off on him. My gut feeling is that Kinzer is posturing at this point, publicly acknowledging the Brewer offer in the hopes someone will come along and beat it. Doug Melvin declined to comment on the situation.
Apparently someone did beat the Brewers' offer to new Dodger Jerry Hairston Jr. Doug Melvin says the team never offered him more than one year.
In the minors: Four Brewers combined to go 2-for-14 across the Caribbean last night, and Martin Maldonado had both hits in Mayaguez's 6-3 win over Caguas in Puerto Rico. You can read about that and more in today's Winter League Notes.
We wrapped up our 29 part, Brewer-by-Brewer look at the 2011 Brewer season yesterday with this brief look at six players we hadn't discussed yet. That post also includes links to all of the other profiles in the series, if you missed them.
The SB Nation network had some technical difficulties last night and forced us to postpone our BCB Book Club meeting. We're now planning on meeting tonight at 7, giving you an extra day to catch up on your reading of The Extra 2% and come join us.
This morning's Mug is the 981st in BCB history. If you haven't already, mark your calendar and make plans to join us for The Night of 1000 Mugs on January 3.
Around baseball:
Blue Jays: Acquired reliever Sergio Santos from the White Sox for a minor league pitcher.
Cardinals: Outfielder Allen Craig may not be ready for Opening Day after undergoing knee surgery.
Cubs: First baseman Carlos Pena is expected to decline arbitration.
Dodgers: Signed catcher Josh Bard to a minor league deal.
Giants: Acquired outfielder Angel Pagan from the Mets for outfielder Andres Torres and pitcher Ramon Ramirez.
Indians: Designated pitcher Hector Rondon for assignment.
Marlins: Signed pitcher J.D. Martin to a minor league deal.
Mets: Signed pitchers Jon Rauch (one year, $3.5 million) and Frank Francisco (two years, $12 million).
Padres: Signed reliever Dale Thayer to a minor league deal.
Pirates: Signed outfielder Nate McLouth to a one year deal.
Red Sox: Re-signed pitcher Andrew Miller to a one year deal.
The biggest story in Dallas this week is still unfolding, as three teams have reportedly offered deals in excess of $200 million to Albert Pujols. Doug Melvin was the GM in Dallas when Alex Rodriguez signed his $250 million deal, and provided a cautionary tale about overspending on one player.
Behold the wonder of Winter Meetings media scrutiny: If you were on Twitter last night, you probably even know what Marlins execs ate yesterday. At least they probably paid for their food, though: Tigers manager Jim Leyland may not have.
The Rule 5 draft is tomorrow, so at least that will give us something to discuss. Adam Foster of Project Prospect threw some cold water on that discussion, though:
The cumulative value of every player taken in the Rule 5 Draft in the last four years is less than one Matt Stairs.
In former Brewers: Robert J. Baumann of NotGraphs wonders what happened to Ronnie Belliard.
This is how you know you've been dying your hair too long. Rays manager Joe Maddon showed up at the Winter Meetings sporting what might be his natural color, and people are freaked out by it.
Of course, conversation about Maddon's hair isn't the only thing going on at the meetings this week. Benjamin Hill of MiLB.com has visual evidence of some of the things going on at the Trade Show. Also, the hotel has a pool.
This morning's edition of Today In Brewer History remembers the day in 1992 when Paul Molitor left Milwaukee for good. Chris Jaffe of The Hardball Times notes that it's also the 27th anniversary of the trade that sent Don Sutton to Oakland.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to step up my game.
Drink up.
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Pads just traded for Huston Street...
…with one less team looking for a closer, let’s hope that doesn’t tip K Rod towards accepting arbitration.
since it appears that Dougie is not going to sign anyone ;)
would it be so bad to keep K rod it was pretty nice knowing if you can make to the 8th inning with a lead and the game was pretty much over.
Lets say Krod does not get the closer offer do you think he would come back knowing he would be a set up guy if the money is fair?
"It's a joke. It's all a joke.
I think it depends on what you consider "fair"
The ball is really in K-Rod’s court right now. If he doesn’t get a closing job from someone or his agent doesn’t feel that he’d get one after 11pm tonight, K-Rod will most likely accept arbitration and hope that next season he’d get a better deal.
He’ll likely make more money in arbitration (granted, on a one year deal) than if he declined it and just stayed being a FA (eventually being signed as a setup/backup closer someplace else).
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
I have a hard time getting worked up
just because DM didn’t meet with anyone on the first of four days of the Winter Meetings.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
by sjlee on Dec 7, 2011 11:07 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
My bad
Regardless… he said he didn’t meet with anyone yesterday… did he say he didn’t meet with anyone on Monday?
Besides, DM isn’t exactly 100% truthful when it comes to these types of things. For all we know, he doesn’t consider talking over the phone a “meeting”.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
by sjlee on Dec 7, 2011 11:20 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Right
Finding it hard to criticize the process without knowing the results.
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Dec 7, 2011 11:15 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And my frustration isn't really that he didn't meet with anyone.
My frustration is that it’s likely he did something yesterday, but instead of being honest and vague he just lied and said he didn’t do anything.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Frustration as a fan, or as someone who is paid to write about the Brewers?
Can see the latter, not sure I understand the former.
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Dec 7, 2011 11:19 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You can't understand, as a fan
why a fan would be frustrated that his team’s GM said he isn’t meeting with anyone while said team sits with gaping holes in its starting lineup?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
No, I think KL and I are both assuming he did something
I can’t understand (as a fan) getting frustrated that he wasn’t “honest and vague” in his comments. Mostly I care about the results of the offseason, not the specifics on what DM did on December 6th or whatever.
I get it as a writer, because being honest and vague gives them something more to write about, posts to put up, drives discussion more…etc.
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Dec 7, 2011 11:28 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, even the best kept secrets are leaked at the meetings
and the only thing anyone connects the Brewers to is Ramirez (not a position of immediate need) and a late-night bid-begging-so-I-can-shop-to-other-teams from Boras.
So, yeah. Frustrating as a fan that the GM seems content to bring back the worst everyday player in baseball and pay $15M AAV to a 33 year old 3B.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
Fair enough
I guess I’ve been around long enough to know how people react to rumors and comments from GMs, shouldn’t be surprised.
Get a ife broseph
i don't know much about financial stuff
and don’t know much about chess strategy,
but was wondering if gm’s like melvin do this secrets and lies thing for a strategic reason….raise up or lower interest in a player? keep other teams guessing and getting them deperate-catch them off guard and then strike at thr right moment?
or maybe it’s not that complicated. i have no idea,
by Rob Deer For President on Dec 7, 2011 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
except that if yuni comes back
passive agressive types might cross over into the fully enraged.
by Rob Deer For President on Dec 7, 2011 11:40 AM CST up reply actions
I'm frustrated when he's dishonest because it leads to a point where nothing he says can be taken at face value.
And if I have no reason to believe he’s not outright lying every time he speaks in public, then how do I know what to believe or react to?
Now that's great tasting chicken!
You could not put any stock in his words, ever
If you want to discuss rumors or stuff like that – go off of MLBTR or other reports and react to that? Or, just wait for the moves to be officially announced.
Get a ife broseph
That's fine
But as someone who writes about the team, I’d like to be able to quote the GM without having to follow it with “and by the way, we have no reason to believe this quote isn’t intentionally misleading.”
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Absolutely
Which is why I asked the original question about the writer vs fan perspective.
Get a ife broseph
As a writer it makes my job more difficult.
As a fan it makes me wish I could just tune out and come back when things are resolved.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Taking one day (out of four) to not physically meet with anyone?
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
You're right, he only wasted 25% of the winter's best opportunity to lay the groundwork for deals.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Dec 7, 2011 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Laying groundwork doesn't have to involve physically meeting with anyone.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
by sjlee on Dec 7, 2011 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think with DM
It’s all about semantics.
In any case, see my bottom response assuming that he did not meet or talk with anyone yesterday.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
The problem, as described above and in other places
Is that I don’t believe he’s actually not doing anything. I believe he’s telling people he’s not doing anything. And I don’t see the point in acting like nothing’s going on when simply telling people “we’re working, but I can’t tell you on what” would suffice.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Gotcha
I guess in DM’s mind it’s far more strategic to say “I’m not doing anything” (when he is) vs. “I’m working on something, but I can’t tell you” (when he is).
It may be a stupid plan and frustrating (for someone writing about the Brewers), but I’m with Supertramp… I reserve my ire for what he actually does or doesn’t do.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
by sjlee on Dec 7, 2011 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Heck
He could’ve simply had Ash meet with people and be available if talks got serious.
Plus, does he really need to spend every day meeting with people? There’s really only a handful of guys that he needs to talk to… I would think he could get that done within the other three days.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
If he did do something yesterday
it wouldn’t be the first time he wasn’t completely honest.
At this point, I’ve moved beyond getting frustrated about what he shares with the media.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Yankees win posting on Nakajima
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
I never saw him as a Brewer
some people thought he should have been the everyday SS, so wanted to keep people up to speed in case they hadn’t seen that news.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 11:31 AM CST up reply actions
The signing or the posting fee?
If that was the total expenditure, that’s absurdly low for a full-time shortstop.
Posting fee, they still have to work out a contract.
Still very low though. Seems like nobody bid on him.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
From what I can tell, don't think teams saw him as a FT SS
From Yankees beat writer:
@MarcCarig Apparently, Nakajima fits more as a backup at 3rd and 2nd; not as much range at short.
Get a ife broseph
Well, for the team that is paying $30 million to Derek Jeter maybe.
Not to the team that has Yuniesky Betancourt
:(
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
Shortstops, even poor ones, are very hard to come by right now
Even a middling SS is worth quite a bit. $2 million is low.
Well, it's $2 million plus his eventual contract.
But if he signs something like a 2/$8mm deal, then you’re absolutely right.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
It's a gamble.
If he’s a worthwhile shortstop, you come out ahead. Even if he’s not, you still have a place for him.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
It really shouldn't be a gamble
If they’re going to sign him, they better know if he can play SS or not.
Get a ife broseph
Right
We’ll see what the contract comes out to, but based on the posting fee, it seems like those who did see him bid as if he can’t play SS.
Get a ife broseph
This
Considering the premium for SS in MLB, you’d think more teams would’ve bid on him and the amounts would’ve been higher.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
welp
Haudricourt: And I’m hearing Furcal probably headed elsewhere, also. Looking more and more like Betancourt will be back with #Brewers.
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 11:36 AM CST reply actions
Maybe the idea is just have the same starting line-up as last year
Except with Gamel instead of Fielder and couple of different players in the bullpen and on the bench.
that's the way it sounds
and it’s understandable with the same starting staff returning plus one more month of greinke…96 wins is solid evidence.
by Rob Deer For President on Dec 7, 2011 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
maybe the run roenicke run
style he talked about at initial press conference hiring will be pursued more in fielder’s abscence.
by Rob Deer For President on Dec 7, 2011 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe they think
Aramis Ramirez=Prince Fielder
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
Doug Melvin isn't THAT dumb, is he?
Yeah, OK, maybe he is.
by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 7, 2011 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
Hes not dumb at all
Just lacks vision.
In his mind though, he probably looks at the HR and RBI and BA that Ramirez provides and thinks there isnt much of a fall off, and then you factor in he wont be getting paid as much as Fielder did last year….
So he's not dumb
he just thinks dumb things in his mind.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
by Rubie Q on Dec 7, 2011 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
A-Ram/Gamel >= McGehee/Prince
Very possibly
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah, and Martin Maldonado is hitting like .400
Guess he’s the new Ted Williams.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
In, what? 25, 35 plate appearances?
And he’s hitting .301/.374/.512 in 1247 career AAA plate appearances and .304/.376/.498 in 3210 career minor league plate appearances. He might not be a .300 major league hitter, but he won’t be a .176, either.
so I guess it's on to AAAA for Gamel
It makes sense as he is a AAAA type of player.
This was a pretty value-free response.
I guess when the stats don’t support you, you can just dismiss the argument.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Dec 7, 2011 4:18 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
While I could just use his stats to back up arguements,
I am more inclined to side with Don $‘s statement about his maturity. I could also live with Gamel hitting at a .250 clip if he could play lightsout defense. But, you and I both know, when it comes to defense Gamel doesn’t even know where the switch is. He hasn’t sat down at AAA, for what 3 years, for no reason. How long were people clammering for Gwynn Jr to be called up and he wasn’t? Who turned out to be right in that situation? Gamel is 26, you can’t teach an old dog new tricks. I could care less how many at bats he has had in Venezueala, the fact that we are talking about a guy hitting at that clip there like he could be a contributor is ludacris.
This argument has played out before
But, regardless of all of Gamel’s deficiencies (both real and imagined), the Brewers haven’t had a place to play him during the last three years. That’s why he’s spent three years in AAA.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
If that's what they choose to site on the surface
that’s fine, but I am inclined to believe there is something that they don’t like about him.
cite?
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Dec 7, 2011 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
No call up for the play-offs this year...
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 4:34 PM CST up reply actions
No - I was asking "cite" because wihomer said "site"
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Dec 7, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
lol
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
Possibly
But they would have likely brought him up already if they needed to.
As it was, his defense was keeping him down in AAA… as well as McGehee playing well in 2009 and 2010. This past season they had already moved him to 1B (in preparation for replacing Fielder).
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Lights out defense isn't needed for 1B
And he sat down in AAA because there wasn’t any place for him to play at the MLB level.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
No one needs to agree with me
I think his upcoming 2012 season will speak for me, I mean himself
I don't even understand what your position is, to begin with.
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Dec 7, 2011 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
Hey welcome to the site
How about you try to play out every argument that has been played out the last three years in this one thread. And while your at it, go ahead and ignore statistics, don’t back anything you say up, and generally try to be inflammatory!
I can’t wait for you to come back if Gamel is a failure at the end of 2012 and say “I told you so, douches” (didn’t you make some witty ’Summer’s Eve’ comment? Good one!). And, if Gamel happens to be an adequate major league player, I’ll bet we don’t hear from you again, so its win-win for you, right?
Don’t let the door hit you, and that.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Nope
If Gamel comes out and performs in in 12 I will be the first one to stand up and say I was wrong. Just like I was the first to come out and say I was wrong about McGehee before 2010(which he seems to trying hard to back up my statements now) I also like how you call my comments inflammatory and make no statement about the post I replied to. Jsut because my “inflammatory” statements are tnot tongue in cheek, doesn’t make them any more “inflammatory” than the ones before it. I really don’t see a need to back up my statements about Gamel with statistics, when it’s his maturity that is in question. In AAA you can rely on pure talent, it does’nt work that way in the bigs.
If you'd like to see my stance and stats to back it up on Gamel
or anyone else, feel free to search through the 10,500 posts I’ve made. It might take you a while, but I’ll bet you can find it!
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 5:58 PM CST up reply actions
I have little to no use for Gamels stats.
I’m stating he’s a AAAA player, by definition isn’t a AAAA player one who excels through the minors and falls on their face in the bigs? Granted, my arguement is hypothetical, but no more, or less than yours.
Again, sample size
No one’s ability can be accurately measured in the amount of PAs he’s had in spotty duty at the MLB level. If it could, McGehee never would have been given a shot after posting a -22 wRC+ in his 25 major league PAs and his average numbers in 1500+ minor league PAs.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 8:56 PM CST up reply actions
54 k's in 128 at bats
I don’t feel there is much need to argue beyond that.
Small sample size
but I’m sure you know when K rate normalizes, right?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 4:45 PM CST up reply actions
I don't have much faith in Gamel either but to play Devil's advocate regarding not teaching old dogs new tricks...
I think Nelson Cruz might beg to differ.
I have no concept.
There is an acception to every rule
I just don’t think Gamel will be one
Exception
and yeah, maybe you’re right but If he’s going to get the job, I don’t have much choice but to hope for the best.
I have no concept.
crap, wrong usage of a word
I think I just drove myself crazy.
Shouldn't give Taylor Green a shot, either
since he’s failed at the major league level and hit even less in the minors than Gamel did. I wonder how McGehee did…
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 8:57 PM CST up reply actions
Taylor Green was also the 2 time minor league player of the year
and has performed above projections, Gamel has not. as far as McGehee is concerned, I think last year is a more valid reflection of what he will actually do. I, just like everyone else, would love to see McGehee bounce back, as he is a quality clubhouse guy, and pretty much, just an all around class act. I just don’t see it happening.
Curious what sort of deals Rollins/Furcal/etc are looking at money-wise
Seems like a crappy offseason to not have a SS.
Get a ife broseph
They really need to get a SS. Hairston would have been better than YB and they didn't even offer him more than a year? Come on.
I have no concept.
I don't think anyone considers Hairston to be a full-time SS
He’s only started 113 games at SS in his career.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
He'd still be better than Y
If he can make the bulk of the starts there it’d be an improvement. Have Wilson make the remainder.
Also, I don’t see why he couldn’t play the position full time.
I have no concept.
Some guys excel at being a super-sub
see Bill Hall.
Also, Josh Wilson isn’t available anymore (went to the Braves).
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Haudricourt loves to inject the Yuni's-coming-back thing into everything.
He’s been doing that for months now and seemingly not based on any actual evidence.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Who isn't
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
I like to think
He’s just doing it, so we’ll all be extra excited to learn that the Brewers had successfully cloned Ozzie Smith and that he’s willing to play short for us for baseball cards and bubblegum.
REWIND YOURSELF!
Ozzie Smith? Yuck.
Just bring Robin Yount out of retirement.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
It looks like that Rollins is stay with the Phillies
Link
So it looks like either spend the money on Furcal,Ramirez or the bullpen
If rollins signs with philadelphia
Seems like we’d lose a lot of bargaining power with Ramirez.
by Chuckiehacks83 on Dec 7, 2011 11:52 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Sorry reading fail on my part
I think I saw the 2nd part of that article and managed to mis-rea the contradicting 1st part.
Yeah, and I actually didn't see the second part.
Probably all amounts to very little. A few extra dollars and the Phillies will hear that Rollins is closer to a deal with the Brewers.
Speculationville
How would everyone feel about a campaign of anonymous rumors speculating that David Wright will be traded to the Brewers? The NY press seems to think the Mets should trade him…
"My plan is my plan," Yost said.
No thanks
In all honesty, the money he’s making in 2012 is probably what Ramirez will require. And I can’t see Wright out-performing him, plus he’d cost that money and a player in trade.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
Unless the Mets eat some of his salary
and are willing to take more minor league fodder (like the K-Rod deal).
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
So I'm warming a bit to the Aramis Ramirez thing
If he can go 3 years something like 12/14/16, it wouldn’t be too bad. Then you have to worry about SS, though. If Alex Gonzalez would take $8M over two years, maybe 3/5, then the team would be significantly upgraded in my opinion.
The problem with that, is it leaves you with no money to spend on the bullpen, unless you’re willing to approach $100M, and then you don’t have any wiggle room at the deadline, which Doug and Co. have proven they like to have.
Yes I would be fine with leaving a 42 year old coming off an outstanding year off the roster, and filling internally in the bullpen.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
I'm with you: I really want ARam on the team.
And I can’t figure out why.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
I'm not quite at 'really want'
but to be honest, Ramirez+Gamel would basically equal Fielder’s production, most likely. If not, then at least Gonzalez’s plus D at SS will make up that gap, and probably push it over the top.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry, I was excited that someone else liked the idea and put words in your mouth.
But if you do join the “really want” side, I’ll have a chair and some punch ’n pie waiting for you.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
Also a dartboard with RRR's picture on it?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
Saving up for another one.
I went through three last season.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
by Rubie Q on Dec 7, 2011 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Its no proper party without the RRR dartboard.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
Because Aramis Ramirez is really good at baseball?
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That might be it.
Seeing him stick it to the Cubs fans who think he’s done might be another.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
That's fine
As long as he doesn’t have a repeat of his 2010 season and prove those Cub fans right.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
The thought
of a Ramirez/Betancourt left side scares the shit out of me.
Valid point.
I guess it comes down to number of years with Ramirez
The only thing getting me through that last year
(aside from 96 wins and the division championship) was the expectation that I wouldn’t have to see it again this next season.
if aramis happens
casey may request a restraining order.
two teams-small sample, but ghosty.
by Rob Deer For President on Dec 7, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
Would he take a pay cut and then just nominal raise
Over what he had in hand?
After the year he had, he is probably in line for 3/$45 at least and you have to figure a team will pay up for it.
And I agree that if you do land ARam, it cripples the ability to go and fill the bullpen, pcik up a SS, and what if KRod actually accepts arb? Then you are looking at around $115 million payroll instead of $100 which is a 20% jump over last year.
And what do you do if he reverts attitude wise and performance wise to his 2010 form?
A trade is the more cost effective way to go about it imo.
Well
his family is in Chicago, and he doesn’t want to move them. And he’s not playing for the Cubs.
If he changes his mind on any of that, he’ll take the money, I guess.
I’m just speculating here. Its going to squeeze payroll a whole lot. But so would a Rollins deal. 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He's also not a super money-hungry guy, at least wasn't a few years ago.
Last time he signed with the Cubs, I remember people saying he could have gotten a lot more money somewhere else and he had a quote that basically said “how much money does one person need to make?”
I have no concept.
by menchkins on Dec 7, 2011 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
K-Rod
Why does everyone automatically assume that if K-Rod accepts arbitration that the Brewers will be stuck with him next season at a ridiculous salary?
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
I don't know.
He won’t be on the team next year regardless of whether he accepts or not.
I have no concept.
Because players almost universally get a raise in arbitration, and he made $13.5mm last season.
I know they can cut him and only owe a portion of that, but even a portion of that is several million. And they’d most likely have to eat a big chunk of that salary like the Mets did to get anyone to take him in trade.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Wow, it really may be the same bullpen next year...
McCalvy on twitter:
There has been some progress in the last 24 hours between the #Brewers and LaTroy Hawkins: http://bit.ly/spTPwE
by kotsaythebuzzkill on Dec 7, 2011 12:01 PM CST reply actions
$4M gone if he re-signs
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
This doesn't seem like the best move to me, personally.
Hawkins is good, no doubt, but he was not a sure thing.
by kotsaythebuzzkill on Dec 7, 2011 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
I would say no to both of the old relievers that they are trying to bring back
Honestly just go internally.
Braddock can be very good. Kintzler was good, McClendon can be average-ish, Loe is good. Parra?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
I think that probably depends most on what happens with reliever signings
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
I can't see any way they don't non-tender him
Even if its to try and bring him back at a lower cost
Get a ife broseph
Did you forget all of those years that they kept putting him in the rotation, expecting different results?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
I think that train has finally sailed.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
by Rubie Q on Dec 7, 2011 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No?
Basing it mostly on his significant injury history, don’t think they’ll want to take a risk with that.
Get a ife broseph
OK?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Just wondering why you asked me that question
Did you honestly think I forgot about a recent Brewer season?
Get a ife broseph
I'm just wondering what makes you think they'll give up on him now
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
Injury, age, track record and salary
If he wasn’t already on the Brewers, would you be in favor of them signing a 29 year old LHP pitcher who missed all of last year with an arm injury, had failed as a starter and had 62 career innings out of the bullpen, for ~$1.2m?
People would freak, right?
Get a ife broseph
Not if the alternative is a 42 year old coming off a career type year for around $2.5M
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
If they're looking for an alternative for Saito
Shouldn’t they be going after someone else other than Parra? (for all the reasons I outlined above)
Get a ife broseph
Kintzler will do fine
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
I have him on my payroll estimate, right?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 4:45 PM CST up reply actions
It was a fanshot I put up a while ago, like I do every year
estimating the Brewers payroll.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 8:58 PM CST up reply actions
Haudricourt's got their estimated payroll at 71million including projected raises
that was before the KROD debacle.
Any idea where the disparity between your estimates and his come from?
I have no concept.
Keep Saito but not Hawkins
figuring Saito gets 2 or 3 million on a one year deal I think we should bring him back. As for hawkins despite his good year last year I would let him go and go with the young guys. We need to free up some money to sign Furcal because we CANNOT bring back last years guy who I wont name.
by bklynbrewcrew on Dec 7, 2011 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
2.42 ERA last year in 48.1 IP
Sounds like a Doug Melvin $4M deal to me.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
What did he make last year? 3.75?
And he’s coming off of injuries. 2.42 ERA is impressive, but 48.1 IP is not. He’s also a year older..
Doug Also gave Hoffman $8M in his age 42 season
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Hoffman was a unique case though too being the all time saves leader and what-not.
I have no concept.
by menchkins on Dec 7, 2011 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He was 41 when he had his best year ever
only a blind, deaf and dumb person would fail to see he was going to tank.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
So
The Yankees fans are in for a rude awakening this season with Rivera?
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Not saying it wasn't likely
but I wouldn’t go so far as to say that it’s a sure thing.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
by sjlee on Dec 7, 2011 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, you can go two ways with Hoffman.
Option A is that it was a mistake to sign him the first time, since he was old and due for a decline. In that scenario, the Brewers were lucky to get a good season out of him.
Option B is that it wasn’t a mistake to give him either contract. If he was productive at 41, there was a reason to believe he’d be at least a large percentage of that again.
I tend to favor Option A, but your results may vary.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
I was Option A
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
Why because he put up 3 WAR?
He also had 19 more IP which will make up a big part of that gap.
I maintain that his best year ever was when he was 41.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
That's part of it
his FIP was also lower in 1998 (2.04 vs. 2.63).
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Anyway, you get my point, just want me to be wrong or to point out that he had more WAR in a different year
it was dumb to give him his first contract. It was insane, dumb AND irresponsible to give him the second one. The Brewers were lucky he performed as ridiculously well as he did in 2008.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 3:15 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think DM expected Hoffman to have a repeat performance
but I also don’t think he expected him to be as bad as he was too.
I also think that DM wanted Hoffman to be wearing a Brewers uniform when he got his 600th save.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
by sjlee on Dec 7, 2011 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The funny thing about that is,
pretty much nobody gives a crap. He will always be remembered as a Padre, and his record-setting number is the one more important, anyways.
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 4:10 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, you're probably right
the $4M season isn’t til 2013
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 1:23 PM CST up reply actions
1b Gamel/Mcgehee 2b Weeks ss Betancourt 3b Ramirez
Get used to it…
If either are unwilling to resign this offseason
Doesn’t it make sense to trade them both for prospects? I guess I just don’t see where a sandwich pick, and more than likely a second or third for each, really makes sense. Unless Melvin is thinking rebuild in 2012.
I doubt Melvin and Attanasio are thinking about rebuilding in 2012
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
Doesnt necessarily have to be a rebuild
Not that Melvin has that word in his vocabulary anyway….
But if the right trades are made, you can still compete in 2012, especially if the 2nd WC comes into play. Heck even without that 2nd WC.
The big downside to waiting until the deadline now will be, with the new CBA, any acquiring team of either of those guys wont get compensatory draft picks. When July rolls around the Brewers would have to be 15 games out for DM to even consider it (e.g. not trading Hoffman or Cameron in 09, or Fielder in 10).
I wouldn't think so
But with Greinke and Marcum both due raises(possibly not Geinke) We end up in this spot financially next year as well. With Youngman and Bradley 2 years out at best, it’s not like we have starters in AAA knocking on the door.
the Brewers can get rid of Marcum for all I care
I just want them to extend Greinke.
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Resign Greinke
for a deal similar to what Weaver got from the Angels. If he doesnt want that deal we should trade him now while he has some value. As for Marcum I would deal him if we could get something good or just let him and his 85 MPH fastball walk after next season.
by bklynbrewcrew on Dec 7, 2011 1:23 PM CST up reply actions
You do realize the team won 96 games last year, right?
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Winning a World Series
Never stopped the Marlins from “rebuilding”
How is that relevant?
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Bottom line is this.
The Brewers are at the peak of payroll presently, unless Greinke and Marcum are willing to sign for less than what they are making next year their raises will make them unsignable for the brewers. Barring amazing climbs by youngman or Bradley we are a little shot on AAA arms.(Fiers is a 2 pitch reliever, and I am lees than sold on Peralta) The only real salary relief comes next year if the Brewers don’t pick up Wolf’s option. So barring MA being involved the asian slave trade, there is no $ to resign Greinke and Marcum.
The Brewers should be the best team in the NL Central in 2012, why would they rebuild?
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I find it hard to believe
That if the Brewers re-sign YB and lose Prince that they will be the best team in the central. Being as The Cards are going to resign Pujols and get Wainwright back.
Yes, because you want to complain.
There’s other ways to replace Prince, e.g. not having a replacement-level 3B.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
I wasn't aware
I was complaining. But thank you for clarifying.
Sorry, please get back to "discussing" how the Brewers are doomed and should start rebuilding.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
I'd love to
But the smell of summers eve in here is making me nausuos.
I know you're new around here
But that’s the kind of comment that leads to me having to tell you not to do it again.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Dec 7, 2011 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Pardon me KB
Still reading to see where I said they should start rebuilding. If I am not mistaken I said trading for prospects makes sennse if they are not interested in resigning, not that they should be traded to rebuild. There is a difference.
Either resign Greinke and Marcum
or trade them now while they still have some value. The Brewers cant afford to constantly lose players for draft picks especially when they have a questionable at best scouting director. Resign Greinke and dump Marcum is what I would do but Melvin will just let the window close.
by bklynbrewcrew on Dec 7, 2011 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
Trading away Greinke and Marcum now for prospects
I think that pretty much says “start rebuilding”.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Really?
Explain how giving up two of the top three pitchers in the rotation for prospects isn’t “rebuilding”. Do you think they’d be able to make the playoffs with a rotation of Gallardo, Wolf, Narveson, Estrada and ???
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Explain how keeping
Marcum and Greinke walk for nothing helps the Brewers sustain sucsess beyond this year?
If the FA market
were’nt so thin next year they could use the 20 mil on Free agents, but with the market next year being similar to this year that 20 mil does nothing. Obviously a deal would have to heavily favor the Brewers to pull the trigger, in my opinion keeping them and getting nothing puts us back to 2 years ago with a thinner minor league system.
They don't
but flags fly forever. This is debate has been going on forever around here. Would you rather have a world-series contender for 2 years and then 4 or 5 years of 74 wins, or 6-7 years of 84 wins and never making the playoffs?
Personally, I’d like to see some flags flying around Miller Park.
6-7 years of making the playoffs
Gives us a better chance at a ring than 1-2 years of division titles
He didn't offer that as a option
And trading proven MLB players for prospects doesn’t ensure any playoff appearances either.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Giving up present success for future success
is the very definition of rebuilding.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
If you get low level prospects
it does. But I personally can’t call it rebuilding until you start talking about trading Weeks, Braun, Hart, etc.
The free agent market is thin again next year
the 20 mil from those 2 will be next to useless. So we just let them walk and get nothing?
I think we can put a better team together for 2013 and beyond after trading Marcum for young players
than in 2012 with Aramis, Betancourt, and Gamel.
Easy tcy
careful about that trading starting pitching around here talk. There is no room for a rebuild in Milwaukee
Lay off of him, he just wants to talk some baseball
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
sounds like Pujols may stay in St. Louis but that 10 year deal
man, that’s a lot
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 12:17 PM CST reply actions
...
Buster_ESPN: About Boras calling Brewers re: Fielder: some GMs say if Boras calls you, it is because he needs you for the bidding.
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 12:18 PM CST reply actions
apparently Angels closing in on CJ Wilson. Rumoured at 5/82.5
my friend who is a Rangers fan just texted me that, looking for a source. If Wilson can be had for that, can’t Greinke?
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 12:23 PM CST reply actions
the two contracts are only 2.5 million apart
I see Grienke’s market next season around 5/$115 million
I'd be more inclined to go with this number
Noah, what’s your rationale for the Weaver comp?
Get a ife broseph
I think a lot of people like to use that as a comp because
Its the most recent below market value extension given to a pitcher, and in all honesty, I think Greinke is a tick or two better than Weaver.
Its a fair comp, but one that must be accepted that its the very bottom of the market for Greinke.
I think they are pretty similar.
On the open market, Greinke’s numbers would shoot up. But with only the Brewers being able to negotiate with him currently, I think it’s a good example.
Greinke’s career numbers are 3.51 FIP, 3.83 ERA. Weaver is 3.64, 3.31. Wilson 3.68, 3.60.
Greinke is better, but with precedence he shouldn’t cost a whole lot more. And if he does, I don’t think the Brewers will re-sign him.
He does have a longer track record as a starter but Wilson has been as good since being made a starter.
Greinke’s 2k9 was insane but outside of that they’ve been pretty similar.
Also, Wilson has been better recently which usually has a huge impact on free agent signings.
I have no concept.
I feel like people are overestimating a Greinke contract
ERA is still what decides these things.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
Wilson
if the Angels give CJ Wilson more than they gave Jeff Weaver they are crazy. They really should sign Aramis Ramirez because they desperately need a power bat and already have a very good rotation.
by bklynbrewcrew on Dec 7, 2011 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
To be fair, I don't think the Halos can get Wilson for less than we paid Jeff Weaver in 2006.
Remember: Schadenfreude is still Freude.
Reyes deal is broken down as
Joelsherman1:
Reyes deal is 10m, 10m, 16m, 22M 22M 22m and 22m opt or 4M buyout [via Twitter]
Do a big step up in money when Hanley’s contract is up
Those 22mil seasons could be brutal
If Reyes starts losing his speed they are not going to be happy about that contract at all.
I have no concept.
Mark it down
When the Marlins are bankrupt in 2015, there’s going to be a lot of hand wringing over the $70 million still owed to Reyes over the next three years.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Dec 7, 2011 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously...
How can the Brewers honestly entertain bringing YB back? I would rather see Josh Wilson as the everyday SS.
Considering that Betancourt is one of the worst players in baseball, there HAS to be a better option out there.
I have no concept.
I just don't see
where Yuni’s critics are coming from… Oh did I mention I am delusional?
I would take marginally better.
I honestly don’t see how it would be possible for him to be worse.
I have no concept.
Yuni was .5 WAR last year, 0.9 WAR the year before
The Brewers should absolutely be looking to improve, but there’s no reason to completely cut themselves off from the possibility of having a replacement level SS next year.
Get a ife broseph
Save for our collective sanity.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
by Rubie Q on Dec 7, 2011 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
seems odd
that greinke has never publicly dropped a fart bomb about that guy behind him fielding ground balls at ss over the last however many years or maybe i’m not looking hard enough.
by Rob Deer For President on Dec 7, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
He stated he pitched to the flyball in his last season in KC.
I think that’s a polite way of saying Betancourt is terrible
by WIHomer on Dec 7, 2011 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
no longer odd
thank you.
oh for a a list of great greink-isms
by Rob Deer For President on Dec 7, 2011 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
Has Greinke
Even stated he is happy in Milwaukee?
I think its actually pretty useful with Yuni
He’s so freaking hard to watch that you need to be reminded that he’s still slightly better than replacement level.
Get a ife broseph
In that case:
I think we need to keep in mind just how low the replacement level bar is.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
Dude, did you even see that awesome behind the back DP this year?
Show me a replacement level guy who can do THAT
Get a ife broseph
If Yuni is better than a replacement level guy
just show me who the replacement level guys are, so I don’t feel so bad about Yuni…
It didn't stop the Cards from trying
And to quote Theriot, “they were in first place when he played there, it is what it is”
I also think he’s a huge d-bag, so that may cloud my judgment a bit.
Get a ife broseph
Yes, but those guys were good SSs at one point in their careers.
Yuni, not so much.
Remember: Schadenfreude is still Freude.
Will he ask for a lawn chair
in his new contract?
Perception bias, fwiw.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
WAR takes into consideration his offense though
As far as his range is concerned… according to Fangraphs, his Range Runs was -4.5 last season.
There were three other starting SSs last season who had worse… Asusdral Cabrera, Jeter and Alex Gonzalez.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
If this were to happen
would you be amenable to Greinke to the Dodgers for Dee Gordon, Nate Eovald and a throw in OF perhaps?
the big question would be whether Greinke could fit in their financial picture, and if that big market issue still applied for him, but in my mind, that deal works in that you maybe get 3 WAR out of Gordon, save $13.5 million in salary, and get a rotation/bullpen option for 6 years, not to mention the cash needed to pick up ARAm or an arm like Edwin Jackson.
Or any starter for that matter
Seems to me like Doug wants this team to rely on pitching this year.
Of course they arent
See the above post on vision and DM….
But its always fun to speculate and wonder about what a good deal would be to not only improve the team on the field, but improve the financial situation.
I don't know what the Dodgers want, or can take on in salary
Or what they’re SS depth is, etc. Seems like they’re content on signing cheaper guys like Harang and Cappy this year to fill their rotation.
Get a ife broseph
No thanks
Dee Gordon stinks and Eovald has little upside. We need to resign Greinke or trade him for higher upside guys that the two you mentioned.
by bklynbrewcrew on Dec 7, 2011 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
This is a case where fWAR may not be appropriate for a measure of his worth
The sheer number of balls he lets go by or flubs increases the number of pitches the Brewers starters had to throw. The bullpen was fantastic last year and was able to cover for it. there are some games, he probably cost the Brewers runs simply by extending an inning.
There’s also the whole concept of gaining WAR simply for being on the field. Yuni gained a sh*tton of WAR simply from starting all the time. He would’ve started for only one other team in all of baseball which means that aspect of WAR is completely idiotic for him.
Summarizing Yuni’s impact by fWAR is unrepresentative of his true value. All summary statistics have a difficult time capturing outliers. Yuni is the ultimate outlier.
by ecocd on Dec 7, 2011 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree with most of what you wrote
Guess the counter would be that lots of players do accumulate negative WAR value, and he didn’t do that. WAR can’t account for the awfully timed first pitch outs he makes, or giving up on a ball on the middle, which makes him harder to take as a fan.
Get a ife broseph
Please define "lots"
Of qualified hitters, only 6 put up a negative fWAR last season. You’re right that I forgot to take into account not working the count causing opposing starting pitchers to remain in the game longer. Yuni is terrible.
Your critique of WAR seems to be that you could put almost any player at a spot, and give them enough playing time and they’d have a positive WAR. I don’t know if I buy that.
Get a ife broseph
I do buy that.
The positional adjustment for shortstop is huge. In most cases it’s valid, because a guy valued enough to play 150 games at short is typically there for a good reason.
In this case, though, it’s simply a symptom of a complete failure to locate and use alternatives.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Exactly.
Yuni’s hitting was worth -1.7 fWAR and his fielding was worth -0.7 fWAR. All of his value was by sucking at shortstop for a lot of games instead of anywhere else or for fewer games.
His fielding is relative to other shortstops...
That’s the whole reason you need the positional adjustment.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
In hitting and fielding, Yuni was worth substantially less than his peers
The point here is that Yuni isn’t really earning his Replacement WAR, not necessarily his positional adjustment WAR. If he’s so much worse than his peers, why is he being rewarded the full Replacement WAR value of his peers? Replacement WAR is basically saying that anyone capable of playing in the major leagues is giving you value over a replacement level player. That’s fine for 95% of the players in the major leagues. If the player is replacement level, however, then he’s not earning that Replacement WAR. Yuni earned a ton of replacement WAR by virtue of his playing time.
Fair enough
Question on WAR then, if Yuni had his exact same wOBA and UZR/150 (or whatever they use) but played 75 games instead of 150 games…would he have a negative WAR?
Get a ife broseph
No, he shouldn’t.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks for the post idea
I have something to use later this week now.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Based on...?
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
That's purely based on playing time, though.
On a team with any alternative, he would’ve been benched much earlier.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Is that the case though?
If he was that bad, wouldn’t more playing time cause his fWAR to go even lower (possibly negative)?
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
I don't want to spoil the post I'm working on for tomorrow.
Let’s just go ahead and continue this discussion there.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Replacement level (0.0 WAR) is definied for a 600 PA sample though
Betancourt is above replacement level…
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
Just saying. All WAR is largely based on playing time.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
No problem
Of course, if something actually happens tomorrow, we might not get too much discussion in on this topic. :)
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Defense
this team needs a legit defensive shortstop.
by bklynbrewcrew on Dec 7, 2011 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
I'm going to pout.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
by Rubie Q on Dec 7, 2011 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
And we didn't take the deal?
Jon_Heyman:
2 yrs ago fielder offered to stay in milw for $176M, 8 yrs. That’s unlikely to work now. But owners fly-in to dallas brings small hope
I don't remember that, I find it kind of hard to believe that Boras would have allowed that to happen.
I have no concept.
Sure he would have
That’s a monster deal for Fielder. Of course the Brewers turned it down.
Get a ife broseph
Because it would've been insane
Small market teams can afford only one big-money free agent. If they gave it to Fielder they knew they couldn’t keep Braun or Gallardo long-term. I’m still surprised they gave Braun the contract they did.
That would be the equivalent of signing a 6/150 deal right now
So, I’m pretty glad they didn’t sign that deal.
It's probably reasonable to assume the deal would've escalated.
It would’ve covered years two and three of arb, plus six free agent years.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
We ended up paying 11 and 15 million in arbitration deals
How does that make this the equivalent of 6/132?
And that's a year-by-year salary
Which is almost certainly higher than a multi-year contract would be.
How upset must Ryan Madison feel that
The Phillies decided not go ahead with the deal that they had. Unless the Red Sox sign him he is unlikey to get half of what he had agreed with Philladelphia
I really want to see him hit a home run
in a marlins uniform so this can happen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZch2jIMVtk
by BIGPAMPERINO on Dec 7, 2011 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
If you look in the description
there are pictures of it being built right now. The only thing they have finished are the lights though
by BIGPAMPERINO on Dec 7, 2011 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
...................
Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.
by The Dayman on Dec 7, 2011 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Have you seen the dimensions of the new Marlins park?
Even Pujols would probably only hit 8-10 home runs in a home season there.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
That is why
I find it hard to belive Prince would sign there, or with the Mariners… But then again 200 mil is alot of $ and that’s what Boras is seeking.
In that case, they should be calling Weeks' agent clandestinely and start negotiating his FA contract
Weeks’ power and speed makes him a natural fit. He can knock a few out and he’ll be getting to 3rd when it doesn’t go out.
You won't he is going to be going back to St Louis
But the 1st game the regular season is the Cards visting the Marlins to open the new stadium so there is the media coverage of that to look forward to…
I will now be referring to Betancourt as simply "Y" because I think it is very apropos.
I have no concept.
Ken Rosenthal:
Source: K-Rod may accept arbitration from #Brewers. Not definite. But closer merry-go-round could leave some without chairs. #MLB
Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.
That could be one way to get him not to accept
“Oh, and btw, if you accept, we’re going to need to go ahead and work on short stop…”
I'll take it
I’ll be benched in a week, and off the roster soon after that. I’ll be sitting at Soups Grill collecting a cool 14 million.
If true
I wonder how this would impact any talks wtih Aramis Ramirez.
Can you imagine what would happen if Fielder all of a sudden accpeted too, or took the 6/$120 million offer.
What are those go go dancers called that they trot out here and then at games?
Car wash by them would work too.
They'd better offer lap dances at the car wash if they want to pay both of those guys.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Pass The Hat For Aramis?
Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.
So we'll cut him
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
Exactly. What kind of contract does K-Rod get if he gets cut in spring training?
He’ll be ahead a couple million at that point if we’re on the hook for a month’s pay at his arbitration award rate, but I can’t imagine too many teams will be saving back $10M of budget space to pay a reliever so he’d have to settle for less on his actual contract.
good luck in ever signing a free agent again
if they did that
That slash and burn philosophy is about as bad as the one Melvin has taken on in cleaning out the farm system the way he did.
This isnt some local factory where they can lay a guy off because of what he is being paid and not have to worry about bringing in another body to fill a position. The good will damage alone on something like that would last until Melvin was gone as GM of the team. On top of it the union would dissuade any player from willingly coming here for the forseeable future.
This is pretty much the worst case scenario in an arbitration case for a small market team.
by backtocali on Dec 7, 2011 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Come on, dude.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
by Rubie Q on Dec 7, 2011 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 12 recs
Three years of backtocali responses condensed into three words.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
BTW, it's nice to see the real BtC show up again
TSSC calls it every time.
by cwolf20 on Dec 7, 2011 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You just have to wait a few days...
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
Why would that stop a free agent from coming to the Brewers?
FA contracts are guaranteed. Completely different ballgame.
Swing and a miss
Strike 2?
This is kind of fun.
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Dec 7, 2011 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's permitted by the system!
They know, when they accept the arbitration offer, that the team is allowed to cut them at the end of spring training. You act like they’re relying on some arcane provision in the contract that nobody has used in 70 years!
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
by Rubie Q on Dec 7, 2011 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
When was the last time a high profile player earned way more than he was worth through arb?
there really isn’t much precedent either way.
Right, but the Red Sox presumably have some interest in retaining him at that price.
They were working on a deal, anyway.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
If it's never happened before
how do you know what the repercussions would be?
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Why does it matter?
The Brewers took a risk by offering K-Rod arbitration. K-Rod takes a risk by accepting it, in that the team can cut him at the end of ST and owe him 1/6 of his salary.
Everybody is going into this with their cards on the table. So why is someone going to be so grievously offended as to make it his life’s work to make sure that no free agent signs with the Brewers ever again if K-Rod is cut?
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
So what're you saying?
That if K-Rod accepts, the Brewers threaten to cut him and he agrees to a deal that’s closer to his actual value to this team?
I’d like to see that happen, but with Scott Boras involved I don’t see it.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Take it easy there champ
Maybe take the next couple plays off, you know what I mean?
Get a ife broseph
If the union doesn't like the fact that a team can cut someone after offering arbitration
They should never had included it in the CBA that they negotiated
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
Oh my goooooooddddddddd
Source: K-Rod may accept arbitration from #Brewers. Not definite. But closer merry-go-round could leave some without chairs. #MLB
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
(oh... see above^^^)
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
Paying 6.5mil of his salary.
Salary dump by the rockies, but according to jayson stark, deals not done yet.
because they're the Pirates?
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
Plus he's cheap and when he's healthy he's good.
They may not be contending but they do need to do something to try to excite their fan base.
I have no concept.
I wonder if the new CBA with few compensation picks
Would not make somebody like Bedard less valuable at the trade deadline
Barmes
I would have been willing to pay what he got because when you look at the alternatives its not that much of an overpay and only a two year deal. I still think we should sign Furcal at this point and drop McGehee to help pay for him.
by bklynbrewcrew on Dec 7, 2011 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
At this point, I'd feel better with Barmes than the lack of knowledge and the fear of a Yuni return.
It’s possible there’s a plan in play that will net something better…but there’s a strong chance there’s not.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Great point
at least with Barmes you know you are getting good defense and a guy that can at least get on base at a .320 clip or so. The way Melvin has been talking up Y makes me think that he actually thinks the guy is acceptable and that is scary.
by bklynbrewcrew on Dec 7, 2011 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
Barmes has a career .302 OBP
.276 OBP on the road (played at hitter friendly parks in COL and HOU).
Not sure where the “at least .320” assumption comes from.
Get a ife broseph
He's talking him up because there's a good chance he returns to the Brewers
It doesn’t do him any good to publicly berate Yuni when there’s a chance he rejoins the team.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
by sjlee on Dec 7, 2011 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This.
There are no options for Doug Melvin just like there were supposedly no options at the trade deadline last year.
You have to feel bad for Melvin at this point. He’s locked up his young players like a small market GM is supposed to, but the hole that’s left over (because all small market teams have 1 or 2 gaping holes) happens to be in a position where 1 fWAR talent goes for a ton of cash. If he needed a CF as much as a SS, he might get that 1 fWAR production for less.
He doesn’t have the payroll space to “overpay” for mildly positive player to fill his need position so he’s stuck with shopping for a bag of potatoes.
My question is whether Yuni gets a major league contract with anyone else. If he’s only going to get minor league offers, then the Brewers would have to be near the top of Yuni’s list of potential options, because the Brewers have a greater need at SS than any other contender in the league. Offer him a minor league contract and let him test the market otherwise.
by ecocd on Dec 7, 2011 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
and they *did* play Tejada last year...
I’ll take Maysonet for circus peanuts before Yuni for $3+ million.
by ecocd on Dec 7, 2011 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
interesting
Joelsherman1: Fascinating is #Mets r talking with suitors seriously about Ike Davis. #Rangers, #Pirates need 1B. Tex in particular is known to like Ike
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 1:51 PM CST reply actions
Marcum!
haha
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
If we can convince them that Fiers is teh real thing I'd be all about a traded that centered around him. Even Peralta for that matter.
I have no concept.
Fiers probably is the real thing
just not as a starter. He’ll probably be an above average bull-pen arm when he does make it to the big leagues, and a cost controlled, above average bullpen arm does have a decent amount of value.
What evidence do we have that he can't be a starter?
He’s done nothing but tear it up as a starter, and from what I hear about his stuff, he would be better as a starter.
Here is John Sickles’ scouting report.
His conclusion is that he’s at best a 5th starter or long reliever, but guys with only 1 really great pitch and a few average pitches tend to do best in the bullpen. And he’s old for AAA at 26, so some of his success can probably be attributed to him facing guys who aren’t as good of hitters while he’s developmentally advanced for his league.
He might be a great starter (I hope he is!) it’s just that he profiles more as a reliever without a secondary plus pitch.
Inner thoughts of e-scouts
“Wow, those are some impressive numbers… oh, 26 years old?”
“My analysis leads me to the conclusion that his ceiling is a #5 second division 5.2 tier starting pitcher”
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
He is a 2 pitch pitcher
That is all the evidence you should need
Except he doesn't have Sheets' fastball
he’s more of a Marcum-type pitcher, relying on his change up heavily.
So...
He can be Marcum?
He has a career 0.981 (!) WHIP in the minors as a starter, and a 4.4 K/BB ratio. How about we let him TRY starting before declaring that he can’t do it?
I would honestly like to see him in an Estrada type role in his first year
starting when there are injuries, relief when there isn’t. It would let us get a chance to see him in both roles, and get a real look at what he’d look like facing MLB hitters.
The fact is, there’s nowhere for him to start this year, and he’s already in his prime. I think he should be bumped up this year to fill one of the many bullpen holes, and if he blows everyone away, we can talk about moving him to the rotation when there’s actually a spot for him to pitch in the rotation.
If I am not mistaken
His fastball is around 90 with no movement and he lacks the accuracy of Marcum
Ben Sheets
also threw an effective, albeit at times, change
You might want to explain your definition of the word "thing" in this case
I believe Davis has 4 eyars of team control left, and with his defensive prowess and move to a more hitter friendly park, above average performance should be expected.
Peralta would be a starting point in a deal like this but would take more than him most likely.
Ike Davis
may not be any better than Gamel so I would rather just give our guy a shot.
by bklynbrewcrew on Dec 7, 2011 2:03 PM CST up reply actions
Except that he's only 24 and put up a .791 OPS his first year in the majors.
I’m willing to bet Gamel won’t do that.
I have no concept.
I'm willing to be Gamel will.
This is his 5th year with the Brewers (yes, we’ve been kicking him around that long) and the only significant stretch of playing time he got was in 2009, when he posted a .760 OPS in fewer than 150 PA. Give the guy his fricking shot already and facing MLB pitching every day he’ll come around to the challenge.
Everyone knows you hope they're right about:
Gamel
The team winning more than 84 games
Marcum not being terrible
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
I haven't said anything about Marcum being terrible. I'm a Marcum fan.
I think you may be thinking of someone else.
I have no concept.
It starts to get muddled
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 8:59 PM CST up reply actions
@McCulloughSL
Asked a top-level Mets official is they were seriously considering trading Ike Davis. “No,” I was told.
lol
#Brewers could try to trade K-Rod if he accepted arb and didn’t want to set up. Likely would need to assume big part of poss $13M sal. #MLB
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
If they're already picking up $2.5 million by cutting him, trading him is a viable option
Let’s say the Brewers will have to spend $5 million to fill a need position. KRod accepts arbitration and is awarded $13 million. The Brewers have to soak up about $2.5 million to cut him and then still pay $5 million to fill the need position. If they have to send less than $7.5 million along with the contract to get a piece they need in return, then a trade makes sense.
looks like the Marlins have moved on from Pujols and has offered CJ Wilson a 6 year deal
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 2:12 PM CST reply actions
That's probably just in addition to Pujols.
I think their new plan is just to sign every free agent available.
I have no concept.
by menchkins on Dec 7, 2011 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I think that's been their plan for a while.
I just always thought they were joking when they said it.
well all signs indicate that Pujols is going to take St. Louis 10/220 offer
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 2:29 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe we start working backwards.
Who HAVEN’T the Fish offered a contract to?
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
6 years probably means $100+million
That is alot of money for a guy who has only been a starter for 2 years
jonmorosi Jon Morosi Source: If #Angels don't match #Marlins' six-year offer, C.J. Wilson likely to sign with Miami. @MLBONFOX
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
haha, LaTroy Hawkins is retweeting the @BrewerNation guy about the Brewers not being able to afford Hawkins
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 2:29 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Hawk!
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Dec 7, 2011 2:29 PM CST up reply actions
And immediately afterwards he's providing an incoherent response to a question about K-Rod and arbitration.
Following athletes on Twitter has to be one of the worst parts of Twitter.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Dec 7, 2011 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Aw, really?
I find it to be the only redeeming aspect of Twitter.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
There are some athletes I enjoy following on Twitter so you're right, blanketing them all is unfair.
But I think a large number of them don’t have the same redeeming qualities.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
The Real T-Plush is trumps them all!
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Dec 7, 2011 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
Ahh, Ax...
He has always promoted the awareness of ‘self’ and ‘stache’ (or the essence of ‘stache,’ for people to whom staches do not apply).
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Dec 7, 2011 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe it's a guilty pleasure but I am actually very entertained by LoMo
Hawkins too, especially when he’s live-tweeting To Catch a Predator.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe a bit, he's actually funny most of the time though (at least, when he's making fun of the people tweeting at him)
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 3:08 PM CST up reply actions
I just found a link to LaTroy's account, and I'm wondering if he's maybe had a drink or two?
These are the dangers of twitter, having only so many characters of space to misspell words, and misspell them creatively. I am afraid, still, to open an account.
Back to Hawk; Hawk is being pretty silly.
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Dec 7, 2011 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
I doubt it
I think the main thing that promotes creative misspelling on Twitter is text-speak, not alcohol.
by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 7, 2011 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
Remember two years ago when the only image of him we had was that one
where he is on the plane with the SARS mask and the apple? That was so weird.
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 4:27 PM CST up reply actions
I keep thinking about this;
“If K-Rod accepts, we’ll have last year’s team. We’ll just deal with Yuni, because we were a 90-win team that won 96 games.”
And then I forget we don’t have Prince. I should just put a couple of post-it notes around the house that say “remember to subtract Prince from the roster!” or something of that nature.
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Dec 7, 2011 2:39 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I'm stupid, but I'll ask the stupid question, anyhow;
Wouldn’t K-Rod/Boras be better off going somewhere else and negotiate a 1-year deal close to what he’d receive with mke if he would have a chance to close games?
Okay, I feel sick. Maybe that is why I also feel stupid.
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
On the bright side, July could get interesting for us.
A good bullpen would allow us to maybe tread along for awhile without the depth, elsewhere… But an unhappy K-Rod might not be very amusing.
I love the Brewers, at least.
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Dec 7, 2011 2:52 PM CST up reply actions
Kay so he's not going to accept.
They are probably just trying to entice better deals.
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 4:29 PM CST up reply actions
The Buster says things breaking down between Hanley/Miami, they may try to trade him after all.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
Personally, I can’t imagine the Marlins want their huge offseason and 2012 season overshadowed by drama. A trade would make sense.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
@Buster
If the Marlins can trade Hanley and his salary- he’s owed $46 million over the next three seasons-their hope is to use that $ on Fielder.
Wow, so they’re looking to trade him like, now?
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
That seems fair
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
Gomez + McGehee + Estrada
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
Johnny Estrada, right?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
Ponch?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 5:59 PM CST up reply actions
Don't be ridiculous.
McGehee for Hanley.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 3:20 PM CST up reply actions
I could live with
a Ramirez left side. It may be a pipe dream, but at least it’s an entertaining one.
Doesn't sound like DM will even consider trading a pitcher, unfortunately.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 3:16 PM CST up reply actions
I'd take it.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 3:20 PM CST up reply actions
In response to Haudricourt asking "How you feeling about possible return to Milwaukee?"
LaTroy Hawkins responded:
We’ll know tonight after. 12
That's the arb deadline, right?
That’s probably vaguely in response to the conversation he’s been having about K-Rod possibly accepting arbitration and ruining the Brewer budget.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Yup, probably.
Though, reading into it, he makes it sound like if K-Rod doesn’t accept, he might be signing soon with Milwaukee.
That's what I read, too.
If K-Rod accepts, the Brewers scramble for a bit to figure out what to do next. If he declines, Hawk and Saito are as good as signed, maybe by the end of the week.
by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 7, 2011 3:49 PM CST up reply actions
Translation:
There is a deal in place if K-Rod declines arb.
Well they shouldnt have any problem filling the new stadium
And if they can be as competitive as they hope, for more than just the first year.
Who told TH this? ---
If K-Rod accepts, that both Saito and Hawkins would be out?! No wonder Hawkins is so animated.
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
I thought we could at least take solace in having the same bullpen as last year.
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Dec 7, 2011 4:00 PM CST up reply actions
LaTroy Hawkins retweeting rumors about his own free agency is bizarre and surreal.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Have you ever gone into a place, where they used too much window spray, floor wax, or bleach etc?
(cont’d) … and then feel really light-headed and have to leave? This is sort of how I feel between what’s going on with Hawkins’s twitter, the Feesh, and K-Rod/arbitration.
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Dec 7, 2011 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
Noooo
I staaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
Rollins to Philadelphia
That’s ok, I didn’t want him anyways…
(weeps in corner)
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
Crap
I was really holding out hope Melvin would go above what he deemed reasonable to get Rollins. There’s also a chance Rollins was never going to go anywhere other than Philadelphia just like Pujols and San Diego.
I now wan to pay Furcal $50 million over 6 years. Once Furcal signs, Yuni has leverage in the negotiations. That’s a revolting developing.
Oh boy
Barmes
Cedeno
Furcal
Gonzalez
Renteria
Reyes
Rollins
…
Betancourt
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Furcal or Gonzales would be fine.
Anyone but Yuni.
Go ahead, make my day.
by ilikeburritos on Dec 7, 2011 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
There are loads of shortstops left.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
Furcal, Gonzalez
I’d take Punto over Betancourt too.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 4:49 PM CST up reply actions
I think there are very few FAs that can play SS that I'd put Betancourt ahead of
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
I'd really put no one ahead of him.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 5:59 PM CST up reply actions
Furcal is probably the only reasonable upgrade on that list
The rest give you below average performance at an inflated price.
I'm desperately hoping for Furcal
Furcal > Charlie Sheen > statue > pan of lasagna > Yuni
Go ahead, make my day.
by ilikeburritos on Dec 7, 2011 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I heard Ronny Cedeno is asking for 5/$100
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 4:20 PM CST up reply actions
Gonzalez is a 1.5-2 WAR player
And should be cheap. Take Yuni’s bat and add plus defense. He will not be overpriced. He is my last bastion of hope at this point.
by cwolf20 on Dec 7, 2011 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I hate to say I'm hoping they sign him
because just a few days ago, he was my last resort. Now, I’m hoping.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 6:00 PM CST up reply actions
Actually
Orlando Cabrera would probably be the only worse option.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
No way, Renteria is still good.
He’s just not durable enough to be a starting SS.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
He is?
He still put up a higher fWAR than Yuni last season despite only having 333 PAs and has had a positive UZR/150 the past three seasons.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Agreed
Heck, I’d even consider giving him significant playing time at SS if they’re stuck with Betancourt.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Ok, I think almost 500 comments in here was enough.
Move along to tonight’s Open Thread.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Cincinnati
|
25 | 20 | .555 | 0 | Lost 1 |
|
St. Louis
|
25 | 21 | .543 | 0.5 | Lost 2 |
|
Houston
|
22 | 23 | .488 | 3 | Won 4 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
21 | 24 | .466 | 4 | Won 1 |
|
Milwaukee
|
19 | 26 | .422 | 6 | Won 2 |
|
Chicago
|
15 | 30 | .333 | 10 | Lost 10 |
(updated 5.26.2012 at 6:00 PM CDT)
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