Report: Francisco Rodriguez Accepts Arbitration
The initial tweet is in Spanish, but Google translate has it as "Francisco Rodriguez accept arbitration offer and will remain as a setup for the Brewers."
UPDATE: Tom Haudricourt confirms. Not only did K-Rod force the worst possible outcome, but he also waited until the last possible second to announce it.
6 months ago
Kyle Lobner
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welp
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 9:24 PM CST reply actions
Can't wait for this compensation pi-
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 9:24 PM CST reply actions 6 recs
(Violently smashes head against a wall)
Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.
I'm upset!
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
Heyman calling it as well.
And he does work for Boras… so… seems legit
Wow
…what a kick in the biscuits!!!
Yuni hates space garbage
by supercarnie on Dec 7, 2011 9:28 PM CST via mobile reply actions
so this probably means Yuni at SS and McGehee at 3B
basically going to have the same team minus Prince Hawkins and Saito, right?
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 9:29 PM CST reply actions
K-Rod will not be on the team come Spring
Whether that’s trade or cut I don’t know.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 9:29 PM CST up reply actions
(there is not enough money)
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 9:29 PM CST up reply actions
it'll be hard to trade him without eating a lot of the salary
and how much would the Brewers owe him if they cut him, somewhere between 2 and 4 million?
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 9:30 PM CST up reply actions
I thought I heard a quarter of his salary
Which would be about $3.5m, I believe.
by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 7, 2011 9:35 PM CST up reply actions
not the worst situation
probably could still sign Aramis but would have to stick with Yuni at SS
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 9:37 PM CST up reply actions
It'd basically be throwing $2.5 million down the drain.
But other than that, not too bad.
by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 7, 2011 9:39 PM CST up reply actions
I read that as
“basically going to have the same team minus an MVP candidate and 2 solid bullpen arms”
Then I wept.
Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.
by The Dayman on Dec 7, 2011 9:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ahahahahah
good one Doug.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
Will Doug finally get fired? I mean, this is really dumb.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 9:31 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe it is...
… but I don’t know that I really blame him for not realizing that 1) the closer’s market would tank; and 2) KRod would be able to swallow his ego and be a set up man again.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 9:36 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Yeah, at the time I praised this move as carrying a small risk but being the right decision.
So I would’ve gotten burned here too.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Me too
but it still looks like a really stupid move right now.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 9:41 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, but hindsight is 20/20.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Dec 7, 2011 9:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sure
But don’t you think you’d have talked to the guy and his agent before offering it, just to make sure this didn’t happen?
Also, the whole comment about ‘we haven’t made plans for if he accepts’ thing, make it look pretty bad.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 9:55 PM CST up reply actions
He could have talked to Boras for 15 days straight...
… and there’s no way in hell Boras would have committed one way or the other.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 9:56 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
So don't you play it safe
a la Mike Cameron?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 9:58 PM CST up reply actions
Oh really?
Well you see the quote in my signature? He said that after he didn’t offer arbitration to Cameron.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 10:13 PM CST up reply actions
And Melvin himself essentially referenced that mistake in his quote to Haudricourt...
… when explaining why they took the risk on offering arbitration to KRod.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 10:43 PM CST up reply actions
It happens all the time with respect to arbitration
also, its sometimes written into contracts (like Saito’s) since its such a big deal.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 9:59 PM CST up reply actions
In certain scenarios like writing it into a contract, sure.
But if Melvin says “So, hey, are you guys going to accept arbitration if we offer it?”, I don’t see any motivation for Boras/Rodriguez to then say “Nahhhh, go ahead and get that draft pick! Since you may soon be my rival if I do sign with another team!”
by Noah Jarosh on Dec 7, 2011 10:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
But that happens all the time
the agent and client and team agree either to not offer it or to not accept it. Say what you want about making sense or not, it happens with regularity. In fact, I believe that K-Rod and only one other offer were made without these so-called ’gentlemen’s agreements’.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 10:13 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe there is one. Maybe DM is playing along to help out K-Rod & Boras. You never know.
I have no concept.
I hear hoofbeats!
It must be zebras!
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 10:58 PM CST up reply actions
Plus it seems like DM has become the John Gotti of BCB since the Marcum and Greinke trades last year
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
Teflon Don
anyone? Anyone?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
So did I, but you and I aren't on the hook for a $15 million f***-up
(or really in a position to be making such decisions)
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 9:38 PM CST up reply actions
Neither is he, really.
The real loss is the lack of compensation when they cut him loose.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 9:39 PM CST up reply actions
Of course he is, this is his entire job.
He damn sure better be able to gauge the market better than you or I or anybody randomly posting or thoughts on Brew Crew Ball (which I enjoy doing but, come on, we don’t know what we are talking about. He’s supposed to).
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 9:40 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I meant he's not on the hook for a 15 million dollar fuck up.
They can cut him and solve the payroll problem. If they don’t, rip him as hard as you want. It was a calculated risk, and it busted. Stuff happens. If he fixes it and moves on, I’m not going to hate on him for it. I’m more upset about the failure to bid on Nakajima than this.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 9:43 PM CST up reply actions
Fair enough
If he refuses to admit he’s wrong and keeps K-Rod, or if this in anyway impacted Mark A’s ability to pay for an actual SS/3B, it’s a pretty fire-worthy screw up though.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 9:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 9:45 PM CST up reply actions
This is why this is a huge fuck up
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 9:45 PM CST up reply actions
The Executive of the year isn't getting fired over this.
I have no concept.
by menchkins on Dec 7, 2011 10:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I completely agreed with the decision. Bad luck if he indeed actually accepts.
I have no concept.
by menchkins on Dec 7, 2011 10:12 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I mean
didn’t we assume that the whole thing was some sort of gentlemen’s agreement? That we agreed to offer but he was agreeing to turn it down?
So then we’d have to assume he welched on the agreement?
by Nicole Haase on Dec 7, 2011 9:30 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I believe a couple reporters said at the time
That arbitration was offered without a gentlemen’s agreement.
by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 7, 2011 9:34 PM CST up reply actions
Talk the whole way through spring training about keeping him for the 8th, and wait until everyone else has a closer.
And then cut him.
but how does that improve the team now? How will the Brewers improve their weakest positions?
they need to rid themselves of K-Rod immediately.
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 9:31 PM CST up reply actions
we're on the hook for $2m either way.
the less vindictive option is to try and trade him for something of value.. but that seems like less fun at the moment
"Looks like I'm just going to have to play shortstop myself" *cracks knuckles*
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 9:33 PM CST up reply actions
I gotta do one more Photoshop of me on Santa's lap.
I’ll be right back.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
Worst. Christmas. Ever.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
by Rubie Q on Dec 7, 2011 9:42 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
This offseason gets worse with each passing day.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 9:34 PM CST reply actions
Woops. Sorry.
I thought I had.
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Dec 7, 2011 9:37 PM CST up reply actions
I have long played Devil's advocate re: Melvin
But this is one of the dumbest things ever. It’s going to be K-Rod/Gamel/Betancourt/McGehee, and if Melvin isn’t immediately fired than Mark A. is as a dumb as he is.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
That's some awesome hindsight you've got there.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Dec 7, 2011 9:38 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
This is $15 million. Excuse me for thinking someone should be accountable.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 9:39 PM CST up reply actions
Then hold it against the majority of people who thought it was a good idea at the time.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
The people on Brew Crew Ball are internet commentators. We do not affect multimillion dollar decisions. Nor do we know what we are talking about. Nor is this our job.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 9:48 PM CST up reply actions
To run a discussion website, not to make these decisions.
You don’t talk to Scott Boras or have huge quantities of money to research and analyze these things.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 9:51 PM CST up reply actions
WANTED: GM of Major League Baseball team.
Will have “huge quantities of money” to spend on decision making, but MUST NEVER FAIL, even in situations where public opinion was largely behind decisions that turn out to be harmful.
If you fit these qualifications, then you can probably use your psychic powers to determine where to send an application.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Dec 7, 2011 9:54 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
Sorry, you don't consider this a massive failure?
What world is that in?
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 9:55 PM CST up reply actions
What happend to "Fair enough"?
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 9:56 PM CST up reply actions
Just can't believe anyone is pretending this isn't an idiotic mistake on Melvin's part.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 9:57 PM CST up reply actions
I know what you're saying
I thought it was a good move when they offered him arb. But if he accepts, its a massive, MASSIVE miscalculation. One that I don’t think should have happened.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 9:58 PM CST up reply actions
It was a calculated risk, and it washed out. Again, it happens.
As long as he does what he can to mitigate the damage… I don’t think he was the only GM who misread the closer market back when arbitration was offered.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 10:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Because of this, the infield is going to be McGehee, Betancourt, Weeks, Gamel
You OK with that?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 10:01 PM CST up reply actions
you don't think the Brewers could cut K-Rod, give him his 3 mil or whatever and still sign someone like Aramis Ramirez?
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 10:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You think they're going to sign Aramis Ramirez to $15M
BEFORE they know what K-Rod’s arb will be?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 10:16 PM CST up reply actions
who else is in the running for Ramirez?
Detroit? Anaheim (although it seems like they may get CJ Wilson)?
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 10:18 PM CST up reply actions
Anyone who has more than $7M to pay him this year?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 10:29 PM CST up reply actions
What if it turns out to be a bluff and he passes on arbitration?
Is it a huge fuckup then? Is Melvin a genius? Because either way he made the call based on the same information.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 9:58 PM CST up reply actions
I just think its pretty inconsistent
don’t offer it to Mike Cameron, then cry about draft pick compensation, then offer it to K-Rod only to have him accept? Doesn’t make sense. And Cameron was significantly more tradeable than K-Rod will be.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 10:00 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, yeah, well, I'm not going to defend the decision on Cameron at all.
That was and is unbelievable, and you’re sig line is one of the most infuriating moments I’ve ever had as a sports fan. But I thought the KRod decision meant he was trying to adjust his approach after having been burned, and that’s not a bad thing.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't think it was a bad thing when he offered the arb to K-Rod
but I certainly think SRB’s point re: access to information is relevant.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 10:17 PM CST up reply actions
I'm still unclear on what information would have been available to Melvin, though.
by Noah Jarosh on Dec 7, 2011 10:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Talking to agents, talking to players, doing this for a living?
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
I think its probably fair to assume that Doug Melvin has access to a level of information that he uses to make decisions that we don't.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 10:29 PM CST up reply actions
His intellect.
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Dec 7, 2011 10:30 PM CST up reply actions
No, I'm sure.
But as far as guessing whether a player who made public comments about not wanting to be in Milwaukee will accept arbitration is concerned, I’m not sure calling up Kameron Loe would have provided much insight.
by Noah Jarosh on Dec 7, 2011 10:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What does calling Kameron Loe have to do with it?
Or are you making a joke about the only extra info he has is from his players or something?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 10:59 PM CST up reply actions
Poor Joke.
He obviously would have called Betancourt.
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Dec 7, 2011 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
Betancourt is an agent!
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
I see.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
Uhh... ?
I am honestly shocked that people in here do not understand how real world baseball operations work.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
We aren't all bactocali
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Dec 7, 2011 11:09 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
**Slow Clap**
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 11:12 PM CST up reply actions
Using my model, it was almost guaranteed that K-Rod would accept arbitration
But, given that K-Rod 2012 projects to be 1982 Rollie Fingers with a better slider, this should turn out ok.
I don't think that's an argument that's going to hold water
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 11:14 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not mad about any of this
including the discussion.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 11:32 PM CST up reply actions
Should we hug?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 11:56 PM CST up reply actions
I know that a large part of his job is to do nothing other than gauge the market, talk to agents, and make decisions like these.
And I know that GMs have much more information than you or I about all of those things. I honestly don’t understand how anyone could believe otherwise.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
I’d say it’s a pretty big blunder that it’s 9:59PM and it could still go either way, but yes, it is much worse if K-Rod actually accepts. That’s accountability for a potentially massive error.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
If KRod passes, it's nothing but a positive outcome for the Brewers, and you're STILL going to rip him for it?
Were you this vocal and outraged when he offered arbitration in the first place?
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Nope.
SRB:
They could just trade K-Rod and eat half the salary or whatever if necessary. I’m sure Mark A. signed off on it.
That's because that was the right stance to take
Offering arby was a calculated risk with a positive expected value.
Would you not call an all-in preflop with pocket aces just because you aren’t guaranteed a win?
This is the same mentality football coaches have when they refuse to go for it on 4th down. They’re scared to look the fool, so they make decisions that do not yield the highest possible chance of winning because failure looks bad.
by cwolf20 on Dec 7, 2011 10:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, no shit. I already said I agreed at the time.
WE ARE NOT MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL GENERAL MANAGERS. WE ARE ONLINE COMMENTERS.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
But you're changing your mind based on future outcome.
This is exaggerated, but say the Brewers traded Yuniesky Betancourt for three top 50 prospects, and Betancourt became a three-time MVP and all three prospects flamed out. Would you say that, at the time the trade was made, it was a bad idea?
by Noah Jarosh on Dec 7, 2011 10:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, because he has information!
And that information means he should know the outcome of every decision before he makes it. No risks!
Straw man
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 10:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
So, let me get this straight
GMs are not supposed to ever make mistakes because they have infinite information (but we don’t know exactly what) which always leads to 100% knowledge of what will happen.
Got it.
by cwolf20 on Dec 7, 2011 10:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Notice how GMs get fired all the time?
(It’s because they make dumb moves)
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
And if the Brewers somehow miss the playoffs because they had no money to spend on an infield and McGehee and Betancourt put up negative WAR, he might get fired.
Personally as a fan, I am kind of upset that’s a possibility.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
McGehee might not even start.
Betancourt might not be signed. It’s not like Green doesn’t exist or Betancourt isn’t going to cost a couple of million dollars
It's not nothing but a positive.
How many free agents have we already missed out on because our payroll is uncertain because of K-Rod?
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
maybe Barmes?
Latroy Hawkins as well, but that’s okay
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 10:10 PM CST up reply actions
This is a good point
But I’m not sold it has actually affected decisions.
by cwolf20 on Dec 7, 2011 10:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Neither am I.
I’m not sure they saw it as a serious risk until the last 24 hours or so.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 10:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think they're slow playing the free agent market because of KRod possibly accepting arbitration.
I think they’re slow playing it because Attanasio wants to make sure they can’t sign Fielder before they make other moves.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 10:12 PM CST up reply actions
Major league baseball GMs are responsible for teams worth hundreds of millions of dollars. They do not make decisions based on the information your or I do when we are chatting online.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 9:56 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Well this could potentially hamper the team's ability to be competitive this season
I think that’s pretty bad considering in a small market, there is only a limited window in which one can be competitive.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Obviously there's no way for me to know this
But I have a feeling the majority of GM’s would have offered K-Rod arbitration. From everything we’ve heard, K-Rod didn’t really like it in Milwaukee, wanted to be closer, and thought he could get a bigger contract. He wanted Milwaukee on his no-trade list in the first place.
by Noah Jarosh on Dec 7, 2011 9:55 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Again:
that’s from everything WE — the anonymous Internet masses — have heard. As SRB has been pointing out, Melvin is paid to do this for a living.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
by Rubie Q on Dec 7, 2011 10:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
So we're evaluating entirely by outcome now? Not based on the information we know he had in hand?
If they sign Ramirez for a modest sum and he blows his knee out on April 1st, is Melvin an idiot then too? KRod moaned for weeks about not getting to close. He’s got an agent who’s notorious for getting ridiculously large deals for his best clients even when the market sucks. And Melvin’s an idiot for assuming that KRod would pass on arbitration and find a place he could close instead of accepting arbitration for a team he knows he can’t?
I’m sorry, but I just don’t get that thinking. I’m ok with ripping Melvin for outcomes on a grander scale (like his failure to put together a rotation worthy of his position players until the very last season they were together), but not this. There are risks in business. You take some and pass on others. No one gets them all right.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 10:11 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
It's basic game theory
Offering arby has the highest expected value, so that’s the play you make.
by cwolf20 on Dec 7, 2011 10:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's how I see it. I honestly don't get the outrage.
I mean, it sucks if he accepts. I’m upset by that possibility, but I get why arbitration was offered, and I get why KRod might take it at that point. I can’t really be mad at either party.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 10:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Not based on outcome.
Based on the fact that I assume he has access to more and better information about these things than I do. Maybe I’m wrong about that.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
I guess I don't really know the answer to that either.
But from the (way) outside, it’s only been the last couple of days where I saw people starting to seriously worry about KRod accepting, and that was well after the dye was cast.
I guess Melvin could have looked at the sheer number of guys with closing experience and assumed the worst, but honestly, I’d have been ripping him up, down and sideways if he didn’t offer arbitration to KRod. It would have been a repeat of the earlier incident that’s memorialized in Charlie Marlow’s sig.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 10:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with you on this pretty much entirely
I’m not sold that there is that much information not available to the public that hasn’t been figured out by reporters and other insiders for each club.
I’m guessing he has a detailed report of every teams needs (available to us), an estimation of each team’s available payroll (about the same as any of us) and scouting reports and interviews with players/agents (for the most part available). I highly doubt there was much that we missed that he did get for information about KRod re: Arby.
Let's not overexaggerate
K-Rod complained once to the media about not closing. He did not “moan for weeks.”
There’s enough hyperbole going around, thanks.
by Nicole Haase on Dec 7, 2011 10:41 PM CST up reply actions
Moaned for weeks might be an overstatement, but there was more than one comment.
I’m not saying it became a distraction; I’m saying he made it pretty clear that he earnestly wanted to close, not set up.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 10:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I would move the heavens and earth
for more hyperbole.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Dec 7, 2011 10:47 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
I know a website
with 150% of your FDA recommended hyperbole.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
I'm a little surprised that out of this whole thread, this is the comment that drew the comment about hyperbole.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 10:48 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
first one I knew I could prove out of hand quickly was wrong
by Nicole Haase on Dec 7, 2011 10:53 PM CST up reply actions
Well thank god you put a stop to it. Otherwise someone might have gotten upset and used all caps or something. :P
I’ll give you “moaning for weeks”, but your claim that he made one comment is factually incorrect.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 11:03 PM CST up reply actions
Honestly
I’m pretty sure it was twice.
There was the original one on September 14 and then a few days later there was the story that he wasn’t backing down from previous comments.
by Nicole Haase on Dec 7, 2011 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
Pretty sure there was one in late August too; either that or the article is mis-dated.
Someone above mentioned that there was another similar comment made during the playoffs, but I didn’t find that quote when I looked a moment ago out of curiosity.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 11:06 PM CST up reply actions
Right
I wasn’t pissed when the offer was made. I’m not necessarily pissed right now. But SRB’s point is valid, in my book.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 10:18 PM CST up reply actions
Ugh
I liked him, but this doesn’t sit well in combination with the bitching from last season about not getting a chance to close.
I defended that last season saying he was covering his butt for free agency and to ensure he could get a new job.
Now I’m incredibly annoyed
So.. even if we have to eat part of K-Rod's contract after we cut him
We could still conceivably sign a shortstop like Furcal or someone, right?
It just kills my dream of Aramis AND Furcal?
Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.
Furcal will not sign with the Brewers.
According to mlbtraderumors.com (earlier today)
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Dec 7, 2011 9:44 PM CST up reply actions
Ugh. Didn't know that.
The way he hit against us in Miller Park last year, he probably would’ve hit .600 with 75 homers and 200 RBI on the year.
Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.
He would have hit .600 in his first five AB and then gone on the DL for the rest of the season.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 9:46 PM CST up reply actions
Or he would have hit that well
In batting practice against Brewers personnel.
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Dec 7, 2011 9:48 PM CST up reply actions
So the best-case scenario from this financially
Is that the Brewers just pay $3 million to make K-Rod go away, right?
I mean, every other option would be worse from a pure money perspective.
this^
though we could probably kick in less than $3M and get someone to take him off our hands.
1/10 for K Rod? A team in need of a closer would be all over that.
If that were true, he probably wouldn't have accepted arbitration in the first place.
They’ll have to pick up more than 3 million to move him in a trade, I think.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 9:44 PM CST up reply actions
Bingo
If they trade, I see them picking up about half (~$7m) and getting a mediocre prospect back.
by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 7, 2011 9:46 PM CST up reply actions
Hello KRod
Welcome to the free agent list.
I wouldn’t even let him work out with the team. Just let him sit for the maximum amount of days before the amount the Brewers have to pay him more, then cut him.
Fuck you, KRod and Boras.
I don’t even blame Melvin for this. Ridiculous.
by cwolf20 on Dec 7, 2011 9:39 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, this is where I'm at.
Maybe by morning I’ll have cooled off, but right now I want to find a way to use this to K-Rod’s biggest possible detriment.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Well, that might affect future transactions adversely.
Really, the team will screw him over enough just by cutting him at the end of spring training whether they give him some innings during spring or not. By that point, teams will be set enough that they won’t want to dish out big money for a relief pitcher. K-Rod might lose out on upwards of $10M in that scenario.
which makes me wonder why he accepted?
From his end, what are the best and worst outcomes by accepting? He has to know the Brewers can’t afford him.
Yuni'd.
wowza
sprtswtr Kerith Gabriel
Sports Illustrated is reporting Jimmy Rollins and the Phillies just agreed on a 5-year, $70 million dollar deal
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 9:45 PM CST reply actions
Welp, I'm OK with the Brewers not going that far.
by Noah Jarosh on Dec 7, 2011 9:45 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
same
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 9:46 PM CST up reply actions
Wow.
No wonder his flirtation with the Brewers ended so abruptly.
Nice negotiating:
“Give me 5 years.”
“No. We’ll do 4.”
Give me 5 years."
“No.”
“Give me 5 years.”
“Dammit, ok, and here’s 70 million too.”
I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t a buy out after 4 though. Maybe a big one to make Rollins bite.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 9:48 PM CST up reply actions
yeah I just saw that
egg on my face haha
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 9:52 PM CST up reply actions
lol
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 10:00 PM CST up reply actions
So I guess this isn't actuall definite yet?
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
...
RT @AdamMcCalvy: K-rod still mulling arbitration, Boras says. They have until 11 pm CT.
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 9:47 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I believe exactly zero words that Boras says.
He’s probably just trying to pull some last minute contract offer out of his ass for K-Rod.
Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.
Which would be good for us, obviously.
Hopefully his plan works.
Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.
In Boras I trust.
wince
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Dec 7, 2011 9:49 PM CST up reply actions
It makes some sense (Caution, wishful thinking ahead)....
… He gets a couple of offers he doesn’t like and he’s got one interested team left that basically tries to stonewall them into taking whatever they’ve got on the table.
So Boras stands up and says “fine, fuck you guys. He’ll take arbitration, make 15 million as a set up man and hit free agency next year, and you’ll give me anything I want because your guys blew 30 saves this year.”
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 9:51 PM CST up reply actions
WILDCARD!
If I had any idea how to link a gif of Always Sunny, I’d totally do it.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 9:53 PM CST up reply actions
...
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 9:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Boras is really smart
He must know the Brewers are just going to cut K-Rod and then you’ll have a free agent when everybody already has a closer? Surely that’s not what he wants?
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 7, 2011 9:50 PM CST up reply actions
Idk
Perhaps he sees it as a quick 3 mil and then a probable signing afterwards. Though it seems more like a ploy.
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Dec 7, 2011 9:52 PM CST up reply actions
But he'll probably lose out on more in the end.
How much does he think he can get in march/April with most rosters filled?
by Chuckiehacks83 on Dec 7, 2011 10:13 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
lol goddamn Melvin
per Heyman:
Brewers gm doug melvin says he’s “ok either way” whether krod accepts or rejects arb. Trade an option if he accepts tho
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 9:54 PM CST reply actions
Well he's not just going to up and say he's cutting him.
I’m sure he’ll explore trades first, and when he quickly finds out that nobody’s going to take the kind of money he needs them to take he’ll cut him.
Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.
haha I know, I just picture Melvin shrugging his shoulders and saying "meh" to K-Rod accepting haha
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 9:58 PM CST up reply actions
Does anybody think it's possible Attanasio was okay with him taking this gamble and told him he'd be willing to eat the 2.5 mil if K-Rod accepted?
I mean, that’s a lot of money yes. But to a dude like Attanasio, it’s not like a gigantic investment.
Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.
by The Dayman on Dec 7, 2011 10:01 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Pay the man 3 million
do not let aramis get away because of this fluke. Still doable in my optimistic mind
(Verb) you cardinals.
by Taterwithbacon on Dec 7, 2011 10:02 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
How do you know its going to be $3M?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 10:19 PM CST up reply actions
it's just a rough estimate I guess, cutting K-Rod would mean the Brewers have to pay 1/6th of his salary
people are assuming it’ll be something like 15-18mil?
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 10:21 PM CST up reply actions
I know arbitration gives players higher salaries pretty much always.
But I would be shocked if K-Rod gets a 25% raise.
well I don't remember how much he made last season and was just spit balling
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 10:23 PM CST up reply actions
ah ok, for some reason I thought it was like 13.5 or 14
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
$18M is probably the high end of what he would get in arbitration.
He’ll probably get closer to $12-14M, though. And the Brewers will be on the hook for 1/6 of his contract if they cut him at the earliest possible time.
Only way that would happen is if the Brewers submit an offer of around 2 million
Realistically, the Brewers probably offer ~11 mil in arby, Boras proposes ~14 mil.
Where does the 1/6 number come from?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 10:52 PM CST up reply actions
Earliest possible time is 1/6th of the way through his contract?
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 10:53 PM CST up reply actions
From Cots:
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2003/01/transactions-glossary.html
The panel, without opinion, awards the player a one-year, non-guaranteed contract at one salary or the other. If the player is cut before the 16th day before the season begins (March 14, 2007), he is entitled only to 30 days’ termination pay. If the player is cut during spring training but after the 16th day before the season begins (between March 15 and March 31, 2007), he is entitled only to 45 days’ termination pay.
So this is from the last CBA?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 11:00 PM CST up reply actions
They just finished the new CBA
and there might be a 5th playoff team in each league for the 2012 season. Any link that says that this is the same or anything?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 11:10 PM CST up reply actions
I can't wait to get his autograph at Brewers On Deck!!!!!
Yuni hates space garbage
by supercarnie on Dec 7, 2011 10:04 PM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
That would be the reasonable thing to do.
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Dec 7, 2011 10:17 PM CST up reply actions
Why can't we just pay more for tickets?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 10:19 PM CST up reply actions
We will
The cost of my 20 pack just went up 6.67%. The 9 pack is now a 10 pack. There are new ‘gold’ games on summer weekends with higher prices. Parking is going up a dollar or two. When you can squeeze an extra $2-$3 dollars out of every patron in MP, you all the sudden end up with an extra $6-$9 million by the end of the year.
The Brewers just need to sell some worthless stock
Works for the Packers every time they try it :) (I know Brewers cannot sell stock like the Packers so save your breathe telling me ti won’t work)
"It's a joke. It's all a joke.
It won't work.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
lol
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 10:52 PM CST up reply actions
#firescottboras
i'm fighting all the french people i can find. happy cinco de mayo!
by sowingwildoats on Dec 7, 2011 10:10 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
I'm not going to panic about this.
Yet at least. I think it’s about 50/50 that he even accepts yet, and I think there will be a way to dump him for nothing without eating much if any of his salary. There’s creative ways to do it, take on a contract of a shortstop or third basemen in return or something (Scutaro maybe?). Hopefully they continue to pursue other free agents, realizing it’s not actually a $13 mil commitment, but at worst about a $3 million dead loss.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Dec 7, 2011 10:13 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Absolutely.
It’s a bummer if he accepts, but it’s not the end of the Brewers season or offseason.
by Noah Jarosh on Dec 7, 2011 10:16 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I have to be in Kenosha at 8 am tomorrow (live in Madison)
I was hoping to go to bed before 10 pm. Now I have to wait until 11 to confirm what I already dreaded was going to happen.
I've been at one desk or another since 7 am.
And now I’m waiting too.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
...why would you want to be in kenosha, at 8 am of all times, on a thursday?
beating the lines at frank’s diner?
i'm fighting all the french people i can find. happy cinco de mayo!
by sowingwildoats on Dec 7, 2011 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
Ok, now I'll agree that this is stupid:
Melvin, according to Haudricourt’s blog entry on KRod still contemplating whether to accept arbitration:
“A lot of teams need a closer. But we knew if he accepted, his salary would be between $9 million and $12 million.”
He’s a lot more optimistic about the outcome of the arbitration process than I am. I’ll be a little shocked if it goes to hearing and his pay gets cut, no matter what the market says right now.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 10:24 PM CST reply actions
I think at this point
Mark would take $10 million out of his own pocket to extend the offseason
(Verb) you cardinals.
Is this still unconfirmed?
We’re a half hour away from the deadline…
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
Yes
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Dec 7, 2011 10:35 PM CST up reply actions
We probably won't find out until after11.
If Boras is trying to use arbitration as a way to leverage a better offer out of someone, which is almost certainly the case, those conversations are going to go right up to the bell.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 10:36 PM CST up reply actions
The bigger "D'oh"...
…is you not using a title.
(Ok, maybe not, but still, use a title.)
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
If the bottom dropped out of the closer market then his arb # will be low
And we can really lean in and talk about how he’s not a closer these days anyway if we want. Then we pay one month of his salary, cut him, and he’s no longer a problem. This was part of the cost/process when we acquired him from the Mets. It’s not bad. It’s not the best outcome, but it’s not Jeff Suppan either.
Also, I wonder about the possibility of Fielder accepting at the deadline
Considering the teams that want him right now are the Mariners, Blue Jays, Orioles, and Marlins – if he doesn’t jump at a good Marlins offer he could be stuck with a losing team for the rest of his career. Next year, things might look better.
No way.
I love Prince, but the money matters to him. Boras says they’ve got young and veteran teams interested, and while he’s probably full of shit, it’s almost a certainty that at least one team that hasn’t made a move on him yet will do so in the next 24 hours.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 10:40 PM CST up reply actions
Good point
Yuni hates space garbage
by supercarnie on Dec 7, 2011 10:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Even if they don't cut him
With Hawkins gone to the Angels and who knows what going on with Saito, Rodriguez is good to have around. It’s not like he’s bad…he just makes a lot of money.
by morineko on Dec 8, 2011 7:49 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It is bad because f***ing DM
“did not consider” what would happen if K-Rod accepted, and now he spent 2 of the four winter meeting days SITTING ON HIS ASS waiting to see what would happen. Completely inexcusable and ridiculous.
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 10:39 PM CST reply actions
I for one
Don’t buy that at all. He knew what he was doing. There’s just no way he didn’t. He was just playing the GM game of sounding like you’ve been locked in a closet unconscious for a week and a half.
(Verb) you cardinals.
by Taterwithbacon on Dec 7, 2011 10:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Either way the Brewers were handcuffed until 11p.m. tonight, which is a retar**d place to put yourself in.
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 10:42 PM CST up reply actions
Not necessarily
He knows it could cost him $3-4 million at most if he’s cut. That’s not preventing him from signing somebody else.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Dec 7, 2011 10:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yep, yep, you're right.
I just don’t want inaction/lack of resources (which were both preventable) to be the cause of not making moves at shortstop/3B
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 10:46 PM CST up reply actions
With A. Ramirez looking for $15M AAV?
You think $3-$4M won’t impact that?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 10:56 PM CST up reply actions
They're slow playing the market because of Fielder, not KRod.
That’s why Melvin started talking about “moving on” today, and why they made a play today for Rollins (and Hawkins) that didn’t work out.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 10:42 PM CST up reply actions
Okay, you're right. I'm just pissed off.
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 10:43 PM CST up reply actions
No worries; that's going around... :)
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 10:44 PM CST up reply actions
I am ok that we missed out on Rollins
If he really did get 5 years, 70 mil
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Dec 7, 2011 10:44 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, totally
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 10:46 PM CST up reply actions
It's hard to believe that this statement is true right now:
If #Angels get Wilson, logic dictates they will be out on Pujols. They are not the #Marlins. #MLB
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
Seriously, though
Who would have predicted that the Marlins would be spending like the Yankees?
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
Relax, it's not like he signed Betancourt
by nullacct on Dec 7, 2011 10:47 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
The only reason I care is because this means he's *going* to sign Betancourt. And go with McGehee.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
He's not
That’s the most likely scenario.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 10:56 PM CST up reply actions
To be fair, he was probably going to do that anyway.
At least the Yuni part.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
Hope you're right...
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 10:51 PM CST up reply actions
Except he did that last year...
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 10:57 PM CST up reply actions
I think they knew how bad he was
But didn’t know how much it would really hurt them until they saw him play every day. Then when they were stuck with him you don’t gain anything by disparaging your ownly option. Now he can go trade for a replacement with the extra closer he has, or Marcum, if he’s asking for too much in an extension.
Bottom line: I firmly believe we have seen the last of Yuni in a Brewer uniform.
I don't know, Furcal got traded
They got Hairston, but he played mostly 3B. Not sure if anyone in the organisation actually thinks he’s bad.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 11:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yuni might cost more than other, possibly even better options.
If anything, maybe the Brewers won’t want to spend a few million on Betancourt.
by Noah Jarosh on Dec 7, 2011 10:56 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
My theory
Boras knows the Brewers can’t afford arbitration, but he’s pissed at us for not bidding more aggressively for Fielder, so this is how he gets revenge.
I wonder: if a player accepts arbitration and then is cut during spring training, what does his agent get paid? Maybe this is the best move for Boras.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Dec 7, 2011 10:58 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
That's possible
even likely. Even, perhaps, obvious.
I’m sure other teams will like that.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
What this means
is that we have wasted approximately 3 million. I would wait till the last minute possible to release K Rod so teams are tapped out finanicially and he gets as little money as possible.
I wanted to offer arbitration because I wanted the picks so I cant blame Melvin but this offseason is taking on a nightmarish look for sure. At this point if we are tapped out financially we need to seriously consider blowing up the team by trading Greinke and Marcum and starting over. Unfortunately the owner and Gm wont want to do that and will think they can contend with a Gamel/Weeks/Y/McGehee infield.
Maybe we should be thanking
DM for giving us something to talk about.
With all those surprise moves last year, there was really no speculation and we didn’t get to do this at all.
Just poof: Greinke. Poof: K-Rod. Poof: Marcum.
He’s doing this for your own entertainment, people
I'd like to clarify
I still blame DM for a miserable offseason thus far.
I do not blame him for this debacle.
Taking a step back...
Are we just spoiled by off-seasons past? And have a short memory? Just because we had a big signing last year doesn’t mean we should assume they’ll do that every year, right?
I mean, we didn’t expect any of the moves DM’s made in the past couple of seasons yet we’re upset now that we don’t know what he’s got cooking.
I’m not being an apologist – just playing Devil’s Advocate and looking for some reason
by Nicole Haase on Dec 7, 2011 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
And signings aren't DM's strong suit
Praying on teams that leave the meetings without shiny new toys and robbing them in a trade – that’s what he’s good at.
by nullacct on Dec 7, 2011 11:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No
Its the fact that they need a short stop, and it seems as if they’re willing to bring back the worst possible option.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
I agree
we all agree. But it’s clear the Brewers don’t agree that Yuni is the worst possible option. I mean, that’s the fundamental issue/problem here, right? If they agreed with our (or anyone’s) take on Yuni, he wouldn’t have stated the majority of games this year.
by Nicole Haase on Dec 7, 2011 11:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, but that doesn't make them right
and its why we have discussion here. If everyone just agreed with every move or publicly stated opinion the team had, this would be a pretty boring place.
I’ve been consistently frustrated with the front office’s seeming inability to recognize and address the team’s weaknesses at times. Sure maybe they spin him as ‘not as bad as the critics say’, but managing expectations doesn’t fool anyone but Mike Heller because Yuni had a batting average above .250.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 11:08 PM CST up reply actions
Oh is he?
I remember wanting to call in a few times after you got done with him and laying it on all over again.
When did that happen? I guess I haven’t kept up enough.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 11:10 PM CST up reply actions
Remember when Yuni was ht as all hell in July-August?
As soon as that ended, Heller was back off the bandwagon.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Cool.
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
Cooooooool.
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
Guess I could have picked up that $10 K-Rod shirt at the clubhouse sale after all.
"People ask me what I do in the winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."- Rogers Hornsby
Sooooo, let's fire up the list of 3B and SS with overpriced contracts
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
Jose Reyes?
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Dec 7, 2011 11:05 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
The Mariners have said that they would pick up a good amount of his contract (though probably not for K-Rod).
I think Figgins wouldn’t be awful as a super-sub, hopeful bounce-back candidate.
Not. Cool.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 11:14 PM CST up reply actions
Well, this is bad. No matter what.
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 11:05 PM CST reply actions
Pretty sure it's more lopsided than that.
But that’s not unusual when it comes to Boras; we just notice when it happens to Melvin.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 11:08 PM CST up reply actions
At least he'll have a harder time using the Brewers as a pawn in his Fielder negotiations now.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
I'm not sure anyone was actually buying that anyway.
Melvin certainly went out of his way to try to torpedo his attempts to use the Brewers that way.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 11:11 PM CST up reply actions
Everyone...just take a walk.
Do some drugs. It’ll all make sense when you’re high.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
No thanks
I’ll stick to pudding and a possible sugar high (followed by a depressing crash later on).
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
Well, that's that.
I’m going to go watch Green Lantern and eat pudding.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
I'm now picturing you like this. Sorry, I know you're not a woman.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
Honestly, I was planning on doing that tonight either way.
So, had he declined, I would have celebrated by watching Green Lantern and eating pudding.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
'Night all...
… I don’t want to stick around for any heinous hyperbole.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 11:06 PM CST reply actions
.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
by Yar Nivek on Dec 7, 2011 11:12 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Ok, I get that reference.
It’s from a great movie.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
Maybe we can get this FA shortstop
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
"vb5r5frfv3vbt5rfg"
Says my head, while slamming into my keyboard. Night, everybody.
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 11:08 PM CST reply actions
Luke Adams of MLB traderumors agrees with SRB:
Francisco Rodriguez Accepts Arbitration
By Luke Adams [December 7 at 11:03pm CST]
11:03pm: Rodriguez has accepted arbitration, tweets McCalvy.
9:45pm: Agent Scott Boras says his client is still mulling his decision, tweets MLB.com’s Adam McCalvy. Rodriguez has 75 minutes until the deadline.
9:29pm: Francisco Rodriguez will likely accept the Brewers’ arbitration offer, according to Jon Heyman of MLB Network (via Twitter). Marcos Grunfield was first to report that the reliever is expected to accept (Twitter link).
Milwaukee’s decision to offer arbitration to Rodriguez was somewhat surprising, considering the right-hander earned $13.5MM last year and the team could only offer him a setup role. Given the dwindling number of teams who appear to be interested in spending big bucks on a closer, the market for K-Rod may have been limited.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 11:10 PM CST reply actions
The dwindling number of teams was at full force when the offer was made.
Also, how come Cots says K-Rod made $11.5M while everyone else says $13.5M?
It's listed as $3.5M for the buyout, but the Brewers and K-Rod lowered it, right?
Or am I thinking of something else?
I thought it was 500 K
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Dec 7, 2011 11:21 PM CST up reply actions
Rosenthal also reports that the buyout in Rodriguez’s contract will now increase from $3.5 million to $4 million. The Mets will pay the original portion of the buyout ($3.5 million), with the Brewers paying the additional portion ($500,000).
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Dec 7, 2011 11:24 PM CST up reply actions
Shit happens
as long as they don’t wait around doing nothing it’s not that big of a deal.
Sucks to lose the picks and the few million bucks but it doesn’t change the fact that they need to get their infield figured out.
I have no concept.
Yes, but unless Mark A. takes a big hit they don't have *money* to do that now.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
(few millions bucks is like 1/2-1/3rd what they had to spend on everything)
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
He has to take the hit, man. He HAS to.
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 7, 2011 11:11 PM CST up reply actions
When the contract you're looking at giving to a guy is for 15 million dollars
2.5-3 million for something else is not going to affect it.
What this means is that Saito is not coming back. Some see that as a positive, others not.
I'd love it if that were true, but I'm not sure it's realistic.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
2.5-3 million was a reasonable expectation of what Saito would have gotten.
Tell me I’m wrong, please.
On the bright side
If someone breaks camp in dire need of a closer, we have something to trade.
by nullacct on Dec 7, 2011 11:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I was with you about 2 hours ago
But that was when I still had hope you wasn’t going to accept it. We have no money and Mark said he is only expanding the payroll essentially for players that worth expanding for, not just to spend money. Given that, even if we cut Krod, we are still out 3 million. Not much left to fill the holes.
We can just trade K-Rod for some elite talent, like the Mets did.
Can Daniel Rey Herrera or Adrian Rosario play SS?
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
I just did
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Dec 7, 2011 11:20 PM CST up reply actions
The instant he signs the contract after arbitration
But that’s too soon. He would get signed before the season if we did that.
I guess it's nice that, if he isn't traded or cut, the back of the Brewers bullpen is awesome again.
by Noah Jarosh on Dec 7, 2011 11:20 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
It's a much better offense than the Giants had when they won the World Series.
by Noah Jarosh on Dec 7, 2011 11:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Also, K-Rod had a 2.000 OPS last year and has a 1.000 OPS in his career.
Wait, can he play shortstop?
For 12 - 14 million
he should be able to set up, close, throw batting practice, play bull pen catcher, and play play short stop in innings 1-6
So could the Brewers, potentially.
The playoffs a crapshoot. The Brewers are absolutely good enough to reach the playoffs. Depending on how the Cardinals 1st base thing goes, the Brewers might still be the best team in the Central.
Might be the line of the night from TH here:
I don’t want to hear closing is important to K-Rod. He went for the money. Shocker.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
Time to rebuild
especially if our infield will be Gamel/Weeks/Yucky/McGehee. That infield other than Weeks has the chance to be epically awful.
Gamel/Weeks/Gonzalez/Green potentially.
And still an outfield of MVP/Morgan/Hart. And a really good starting staff and back of the bullpen. The team could/should still be really, really good next year.
by Noah Jarosh on Dec 7, 2011 11:26 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Every time I see the name Hainley
I think the person is talking about Hanley Ramirez…until I remember that there’s a Brewers prospect named Hainley.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
by -JP- on Dec 7, 2011 11:28 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
This
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Dec 7, 2011 11:29 PM CST up reply actions
Did you mean Hansel?
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Dec 8, 2011 7:31 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Find a few bucks for Alex Gonzalez or at least Punto and it's a deal
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
Highly doubt Alex Gonzalez would be that cheap.
I think Punto should just be the starting SS, Doug won’t be able to see past ‘utility’ though.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
$2.5M and had a .281 wOBA.
Betancourt made $4M. Gonzalez has been cheaper the last couple seasons, it could continue.
Betancourt signed his contract before he was the worst starter in the MLB
Only reason he got 4 mil last year.
League minimum is actually around $400k
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 11:54 PM CST up reply actions
Oh I see what you're saying now
‘multitasking’ FTL
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2011 11:57 PM CST up reply actions
Gomez at SS
Let him practice, it’s the offseason!
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
Still calling it like this
Aramis, Yuni, Weeks, Gamel/McGehee. In Mark I trust.
(Verb) you cardinals.
Nah
The Red Sox still need a closer, don’t they? Some sort of deal can be worked out for Scutaro, I’m sure.
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Dec 7, 2011 11:26 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
they need a closer and his name is Ryan Madson from Philadelphia
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 7, 2011 11:44 PM CST up reply actions
The CBA that ran from 2007-2011 stipulated this:
A Player whose Contract is terminated by a Club under paragraph 7(b)(2) of the Uniform Player’s Contract for failure to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability shall be entitled to receive termination pay from the Club in an amount equal to thirty (30) days’ payment at the rate stipulated in paragraph 2 of his Contract, if the termination occurs during spring training but on or before the 16th day prior to the start of the championship season. If the termination occurs during spring training, but subsequent to the 16th day prior to the start of the championship season, the Player’s termination pay shall be in an amount equal to forty-five (45) days’ payment at the rate stipulated in paragraph 2 of his Contract.
An MLB season is 182 days. Thirty days is 16.5%. They’ll base it off a minimum of $13.5M — probably exactly $13.5M, since he didn’t out-earn that deal — which means …
Brewers are on the hook for $2.2M if they don’t work out a trade.
Uh....
… are we honestly going to be able to say he doesn’t display sufficient skill or competitive ability?
Because I smell a grievance if we try that.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2011 11:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
His douschebaggery is getting in the way of his performance.
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Dec 7, 2011 11:32 PM CST up reply actions
Sure hope that's not the only reason a team can do that for.
Cuz yeah, there will definitely be a grievance filed if that’s the only legitimate reason.
I have no concept.
OK, so they only pitch him against All-Stars in spring training.
And if he gives up, like, a 1.800 WHIP or something, then Milwaukee says it looked as if he had just completely lost his talent.
Obviously this is somewhat tongue-in-cheek
Because I am really angry about this situation. But I know that if I found out right now that he blew out his elbow, I would be happy. Not just not feel bad, I’d be happy.
I guarantee that if a player fails a physical, he can be cut.
I think you can just cut a guy.
Sufficient skill is vague. In our situation, there’s no way he can exhibit sufficient skill to be worth $13.5M, so we have to let him go. He gets his 2.2M, signs elsewhere for 8-10, and probably doesn’t complain, since he knows he & Boras already did Doug dirty.
I can't recall any team going to arbitration with a guy and then just cutting him.
Am I blanking on anybody?
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
I don't recall anyone.
For that matter, I don’t recall many high-priced players accepting arbitration in the first place.
The onle thing they could do is to try to sign him to a more reasonable multi-year deal, then trade him to a team looking for a closer.
Might even get a decent return on him in that case.
I have no concept.
by menchkins on Dec 7, 2011 11:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, that seems to make sense doesn't it?
It seems like it would be in both of their interests to do something along those lines IMO.
I have no concept.
I hope this makes sense
Even though this SUCKS and there doesn’t seem to be any way this is a positive thing for the Brewers, the unpredictability of baseball is kind of awesome. Even a few hours ago there were people on this site that said there was no way in hell he would accept arb. And yet, here we are. Same thing with the Cardinals beating the unbeatable Phillies in the playoffs. There are some things you can’t predict and that’s a great thing about this game. Sadly, in this case it’s a horrible thing for the Brewers. But we’ll recover, folks.
by kotsaythebuzzkill on Dec 7, 2011 11:29 PM CST reply actions
Both of your examples are pissing on my dreams.
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Dec 7, 2011 11:31 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry bout that
I hadn’t read all of the comments yet when I posted mine. I clearly shouldn’t be seeing a bright/ sunny side right now…
by kotsaythebuzzkill on Dec 7, 2011 11:41 PM CST up reply actions
Also, I've been waiting to change my username to just the right buzzkill for next year.
I don’t know, krodthebuzzkill might work for a few months…
by kotsaythebuzzkill on Dec 7, 2011 11:43 PM CST up reply actions
Now... who wants to hear a story about arbitration?
Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.
Do you know the story about the destruction of the Brewers offseason budget?
Neither did Doug Melvin when he woke up in the morning.
Especially if that bright sunny side includes
1. The Brewers being screwed.
2. The Cardinals having a miracle run.
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Dec 7, 2011 11:43 PM CST up reply actions
I thought you said BUCKS for a minute there.
I was worried.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
by Yar Nivek on Dec 7, 2011 11:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I remember a few hours ago when we were debating whether or not Aramis Ramirez was good enough for us.
:(
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
We flat out cannot afford this
the Brewers just cant afford to pay a reliever 12 million or more. I just dont see how we have the money to get a real shortstop or power bat to replace Prince. If we replace Prince with Gamel and make no other changes to the team of substance we are a far weaker team.
It feels to me like Melvin just has no plan whatsoever. It is inexcusable to go into next season with the same shortstop we had last season.
so we pay him 2.2 million and boot him out of here.
hopefully late enough so that he winds up pitching the 6th inning in Pittsburgh or whatever.
Well if we keep him
Its kind like he just got his option from last season for 17 million – 13 million in arbitration plus 4 million buy out. yay.
Haudricourt:
Asked if obligation to K-Rod might stop interest in Aramis Ramirez, Melvin said, “Possibly. I’ll take a look at it.”
Ugh.
Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.
More...
With K-Rod accepting arbitration, Melvin said he’ll call off his pursuit of Takashi Saito “for now.”
Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.
Given that Saito was going to cost around 2-3 million
and we will owe K-Rod 2-3 Million, is it possible that the only impact of this crappy afternoon is that we lose a highly likeable 30 inning reliever.
And that our ‘pursuit’ of Ramirez or Rollins on Furcal or Yuni+DeRosa or whatever else is unchanged.
It better not
If we lose out on Aramis who basically said “Yespls I liek milwoki” THEN I will call this a terrible offseason. He only wants like 9 mil a year, just pocket it Mark, you can take the financial hit. We need that extra bat.
(Verb) you cardinals.
by Taterwithbacon on Dec 8, 2011 1:03 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Someone posted this on MLBTR in the comments section. Anyone know how accurate this is?
Fans here are a bit ignorant of the rules. Arb Money is not guaranteed. The Brewers can trade K rod and prob do well. In fact I can imagine the Brewers wanting a MLB ready player over another draft pick. Now that team don’t have to lose a 1st rd comp pick….the suitors may increase. Further it’s possible K rod won’t agree to a trade unless he gets a multi-year extension. Which he likely will.
This might be by design, by Melvin and Boras. In the event the market for type A K-rod was soft…which it clearly was.
If this is not the case, then the Brewers can cut K Rod, but it costs them $3 million, a fraction of his arb number, still not a free be. Certainly worth the risk to net 2 1st rd picks. But not ideal.
I have no concept.
It sounds good in theory, but I don't know how well it would work in practice.
For instance, I don’t think the Brewers would be able to get anything decent in a trade for K-Rod without picking up some of his salary.
I agree, I think they'd have to restructure his contract, like we were talking about before. Sign him to a 3 year deal at 7 or 8 million per, then trade him.
I have no concept.
i think he's more valuable
at 1/11 then 3/21…
That might be even worse.
Like how I wasn’t as upset at the Gagne contract because it was over after one year. I wouldn’t have liked it better if it was 3/18 instead of 1/10.
It's a tough situation though because he's going to want a mult-year deal. So they'd have to somehow apease both KROD and his possible suitors.
Maybe a 2 year deal?
I have no concept.
I think most everything in there is inaccurate.
Type A relievers don’t cost picks after the new CBA.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
KROD does though.
He was one of the “modified type A’s” or whatever the hell they were called.
I have no concept.
Yes, I think the modified Type A status means he was a Type A but will not cost a pick.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
For reference Colorado got a PTBNL and cash for Huston Street
And that’s with San Diego picking up most of his contract. Rumor is Colorado was asking for more in exchange if they had paid most of the $8MIL themselves. Using that I can’t imagine the Brewers getting much in return, even a restructured deal would have more money than the Street deal. Not to mention who’s still even in the market… Boston? And they may consider Ryan Madsen a better option.
I am completely miserable, Milwaukee.
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 8, 2011 12:04 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
Yu Darvish is being posted tomorrow.
AND THIS PROBABLY MEANS THE BREWERS CAN’T AFFORD HIM! GOD DAMMIT!
Hurmmm
"Everyone talks to me about Prince’s body, but when you have that 5’ 11″ strike zone, that’s a huge advantage," Boras said. "The pitcher has to get the ball into a smaller window, and it’s much more difficult to do that."
FanGraphs should consider a venue for a Gallery Night... they could even serve a cake with a Win Expectancy Chart of the 7/7/11 Brewers' game etched in the frosting, and 7-up. Oh, yeah - and t-shirts that say "SABR-Friday." I'm totally there.
by Jess'HittheBall on Dec 8, 2011 12:18 AM CST reply actions
Scott "Bill Veeck" Boras
fka "warwick5s"
by DEUCE SLUICE on Dec 8, 2011 12:21 AM CST up reply actions
Short players = new market inefficiency?
That dog just won't hunt.
by Bush League All Star on Dec 8, 2011 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
Ugh
Asked if this puts him out on other players he was pursuing, Melvin said, “We’ll get a shortstop.”
As to whether this takes him out of the running for third baseman Aramis Ramirez, Melvin said, "Possibly. We’ll look at it.
“We still like our ball club. We won last year because a lot of our strength was our starting pitching and bullpen. We’ve still got all five starters back and now we’ve got K-Rod, Axford, Loe and Estrada. We’re losing Hawkins and Saito.”
Sounds like “Betancourt and McGehee!” to me…
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
What's so wrong with that though?
Obviously I hope they’ll sign someone other than Yuni, but Ax and K-Rod being the 8th and 9th inning guys for the whole season next year just sounds awesome to me. Losing Prince (99% likely) and Hairston sucks, but fuck we’re going to be good next year anyway, deal with it people.
"Obi Braun Kenobi you're our only hope!"
by ObiBraunKenobi on Dec 8, 2011 1:09 AM CST up reply actions
I prefer to get >0 WAR out of the left side of my infield.
Maybe Casey will rebound, but I don’t really feel good about it.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 1:12 AM CST up reply actions
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Packers: Working on a dynasty.
Blackhawks: Taking care of business as usual.
Badgers:Back-to-back B1G Champions!
Brewers: Move along, nothin' to see here.
Okay, seriously now
Pujols is being strongly pursued by the Angels, if they get him by any chance then we should get a free Rameriez and a cheap Yuni, cut Krod and be done with it, I’m just so frustrated and I need to sleep. I know this won’t kill us but I’m afraid it’ll make a wound that won’t heal until it’s too late to get someone.
(Verb) you cardinals.
Sounds like LAA might get C.J. Wilson instead, which would also help lower A-Ram's price
Though I fear it all may be for naught after the Great Krodpocalypse
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 1:08 AM CST up reply actions
The 2.1 million dollar krodpocalypse?
we used to set more money than that on fire in 4 suppan starts.
They're not going to cut K-Rod.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 1:32 AM CST up reply actions
It doesn't sound to me like they can without repercussion from the players union.
Also they’d be paying more than just the 2-3 million we were all hoping for.
Best case scenario is probably trading him.
I have no concept.
I don't know who Bob Nightengale is, but MLB Trade Rumors RT'd him...
The #Angels say that they can afford to sign both Albert Pujols and C.J. Wilson, shelling out in excess of $300 milliion.
Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.
Nightengale is a USA Today reporter
and goddamn at that tweet, over 300 mil on 2 players, insane.
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 8, 2011 1:58 AM CST up reply actions
Must be fucking nice...
Packers: Working on a dynasty.
Blackhawks: Taking care of business as usual.
Badgers:Back-to-back B1G Champions!
Brewers: Move along, nothin' to see here.
Random Question
As Brewers fans, were we spoiled by the offseason last year?
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
Nah.
It wasn’t all fantastic last year There were multiple opportunities to get rid of Yuni, including a cheap 2 year deal with one of the available aging SS. Signing Kotsay was a mistake in that he didn’t know Roenicke would have a mancrush on him (I’m so glad Kotsay is off the market).
That said, I’m not sure I’ll ever see the Brewers make that kind of offseason splash in the market as long as I follow baseball.
False hope?
TH says the payroll was estimated at $71 million pre-Krodpocalypse, and that they will go to $95 million, which could leave $11 million or so to spend on a SS/3B (A-Ram and Cedeno or… Yuni?). That initial number seems low though.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
Maybe he's not taking arbitration raises into account
That’s extremely low based on everything everyone has said.
It said arbitration estimates were included, not sure where TH is getting that though.
If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!
by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 1:32 AM CST up reply actions
This isn't good for the Brewers, but there will be an active trade market available for him now
Taking a few thoughts together from the entire thread, the Brewers aren’t in a terrible position and if they can get the Red Sox attention, they’ll have a chance to fix their SS situation by getting Scutaro.
The Red Sox would now getting KRod at a discount, on a 1-year contract and without a no-trade clause. That’s the absolute dream scenario for a team needing a closer.
We’re all agreed that KRod shouldn’t get much more than $13.5 million in arbitration. As far as the Brewers are concerned, they’re out $2.2 million as is so they’ll be willing to kick that into a trade by default. That means KRod is available to anyone for practically nothing in return at $11.3 million on a 1-year contract without a no-trade clause. I would be blown away if there weren’t a few teams that would’ve signed that contract.
The Red Sox could have been counting on Scutaro as a trade chip all along and there can’t be a more attractive trade option than KRod on an arbitration contract.
This definitely hurts the Brewers, but it’s also opened up some opportunities to fill the infield holes that they didn’t have before.
by ecocd on Dec 8, 2011 1:35 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I think Boston would rather have Ryan Madson
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 8, 2011 1:59 AM CST up reply actions
Didn't they just sign Heath Bell?
Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.
Dream scenarios
Mariano Rivera decides in spring training that the tank is empty, the Yankees panic and trade for K-Rod.
Alternatively, the Brewers trade K-Rod to Kansas City for a bag of balls (may have to eat salary on this one).
REWIND YOURSELF!
The Yankees would definitely pay most of his salary
Not sure what the Brewers would get back other than money.
The other aspect is that if they are going to trade him while sending cash in the deal, they’re better off doing it sooner than later so they can sign the other free agents they’re pursuing.
How would arbitration play out, though?
Arbitration is to award players a a contract equal to their value often comparing them to their peers. The Brewers will have absolutely no problem proving that KRod is a set-up man on their team; by accepting arbitration, he’s acknowledged he’s content to be a set-up man. They could very well convince an arbitration judge that his compensation should be commensurate with elite set-up men and not elite closers.
There’s no doubt he’d be one of the best set-up men in baseball so he’d get the ceiling based on that argument. Do elite set-up men still get $13.5 million?
Wouldn't arbitration be based on the player's past performance (in this case, closing)
Rather than his projected role going forward?
by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 8, 2011 8:35 AM CST up reply actions
His past performance on the team that he just accepted arbitration with is as a setup man.
I was thinking the same think as ecocd. He’s admitted he’s a setup man by accepting arbitration. Even if we submit our arbitration offer at best-setup-man-of-all-time levels, what does that mean? Based on the list here, is that Danys Baez? Mike Gonzalez? So 6-7 million? Doesn’t seem like a guaranteed win, but it seems like there’s an argument there.
Hmmm
wonder why Raphael Soriano wasn’t in that list. Figures a Boras guy/Yankee would screw it up.
Do arbitors seriously take Yankees contracts into account?
If the Yankees are paying their set-up man $12 million and the next highest is $7 million, I don’t think the arbitration judge could take that seriously.
You have to figure Boras and KRod will put in arbittration figure on par with top 3 closers in baseball. According to Cot’s, on average, Mariano is making $15 million, Lidge and Papelbon are making $12.5 million, and KRod’s last contract gave him $12.3 million / year.
Rivera is the best closer in history so Boras can’t possibly go above $15 million in arbitration and expect to win. The Brewers come in at, say, $8 million offering the best non-Yankees set-up man contract in MLB history. If the Brewers lose they’re out $1.5 million. If they win, they can keep him or trade him at an enormous discount. You rolled the dice once. Why not roll them again?
I think a players' salary can only be reduced by 20% maximum in arbitration.
I could be wrong about that but I think that’s the case.
I have no concept.
take it with a grain of salt, since it's coming from Boras' puppet, Jon Heyman:
#brewers are far from out of it on fielder. aggressive owner mark attanasio has met at both meetings with agent scott boras
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 8, 2011 8:47 AM CST reply actions
That's pure negotiating
After this KRod debacle he’s just hurting himself by pretending the Brewers are still in the game. Everyone knows that’s complete BS so why would they believe him on any of the other teams? Not a great move by Boras, in my opinion.
Pujols going to the Angels
10/$250-$260 mil
Maybe the Brewers can get a package to acquire Trumbo somehow, maybe involving KRod or Axford even.
Morales signed a one-year deal for 2011 (for ~3M), and has two years of arb left according to Cots
So, no. He doesn’t.
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
2-time BCB Fantasy Baseball Champion
I was thinking about his MLB deal signed when he came over from Cuba.
Trumbo is still the cheaper of the two.
A.) The Angels are really just using the length of the contract as a way to defer money
No one can rationally think he’ll be productive for 10-years, so that just has to be a way to stretch out the money to something more palatable than a $30 million hit this year on a 7-year contract.
B.) Are the Cards going to be suitors for Fielder or are they going to look for an affordable 1B and use the Pujols money elswhere? They’ll now have the money to overpay Furcal so they don’t have to get into a bidding war for Betancourt. They could also have the resources to look for a new 2B. They could also just pocket the Pujols money.
C) Walden on the Angels is pretty good and is making pennies. Even a free spending team like the Angels wouldn’t blow even $7 million on KRod if the Brewers kick in $6 million, would they? Likewise, Axford is making peanuts and has shown himself to be a rare closer with a track record of success and that makes him worth his weight in diamond.
Axford is playing with house money
Injury history, horrible mechanics….
If it werent for the KRod development, it would be foolish to deal him anywhere, but he is going to be much more valuable in a trade than KRod could. And developing a closer is not as hard as some might think.
But it shoudl definitely be explored. I definitely would not describe Axford’s value as worth its weight in diamonds.
Weren't the Brewers high on Peralta as a closer for a while?
They could use Axford to get Trumbo (both young guys), use KRod’s absurd contract to close for them this year and bring up Peralta or other-young-guy next year.
Wait, why are you assuming Trumbo is going to be better than Gamel
Trumbo OPS’d .768 with a hideous OBP over 572 PAs. Unless he’s a defensive wizard, there’s no reason to believe Gamel wouldn’t put up those same unimpressive numbers at 1B.
Triple POST!
I dotn think I would start putting Peralta in the pen just yet
After the year he had, but if they did keep KRod for a year, that gives Thornburg time to develop a bit more and he is the next closer.
Trumbo did have a 2.3 WAR as a rookie while hitting 29 HR in a less hitter friendly park than Miller Park.
Also
Trumbo was a plus defender last year, and was a bit unlucky offensively with a .274 BABIP.
Bill James has him projected for an OPS over .800 and wOBA over .340. With a move to Miller Park those numbers could only increase.
Okay, that's cool.
Given his domination of AAA, Gamel very well could put up those same numbers, but he doesn’t have a full year at the majors to demonstrate that ability.
Bill James has Morales projected for a .845 OPS and a .365 wOBA.
And he probably wouldn’t cost us an Axford.
Hell, Bill James has Gamel at an .818 OPS and a .357 wOBA.
And he’s already here.
I would think projections with 500 MLB PAs would be more reliable than MLE numbers
though I’m not certain about that.
Totally read this as Turnbow, then vomited in my mouth
Then I re-read…
I hate Yuni.
by BrewCrewBrian on Dec 8, 2011 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I am driving to Dallas today for a gymnastic meet this weekend
if it would make you all feel better I could swing by the winter meeting and slap Doug upside the head ;)
"It's a joke. It's all a joke.
I run an online dating service now. It's like pimping, but you don't have to say "upside the head" as much.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
Because it's Futurama.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
KRod to the Red Sox, make it happen.
It’s been discussed in other parts of the comments here but this is a list of tradeable pieces the Red Sox have compiled by a Red Sox journalist. If he thinks they’d be willing to part with Michael Bowden, Felix Doubront, and Jed Lowrie for the likes of Andrew Bailey I’m starting to think it isn’t much of a stretch to think the Brewers could get something of value from them.
Now you have to wonder if Randy Wolf is on the table for Scutaro
Brewers need salary relief and a shortstop. The Red Sox need a passable starting pitcher. Puts the Brewers out in their starting rotation, but they could be making the best out a bad situation.
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Cincinnati
|
26 | 20 | .565 | 0 | Won 1 |
|
St. Louis
|
25 | 22 | .531 | 1.5 | Lost 3 |
|
Houston
|
22 | 24 | .478 | 4 | Lost 1 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
22 | 24 | .478 | 4 | Won 2 |
|
Milwaukee
|
19 | 27 | .413 | 7 | Lost 1 |
|
Chicago
|
15 | 31 | .326 | 11 | Lost 11 |
(updated 5.27.2012 at 12:11 PM CDT)
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