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Putting Alex Gonzalez Into Context

Alex Gonzalez is excellent at defense.

Alex Gonzalez isn't really that great. For just about every Major League Baseball team, he would be a mediocre option. For many teams, he would be a downgrade from their current shortstop. But for the Milwaukee Brewers, who just signed Alex Gonzalez to a one year deal with a vesting option, Gonzalez is like an angel sent from heaven.

Alex Gonzalez hit .241/.270/.372 in 2010. He's certainly not a good hitter. He does have some power in his bat though, and hit 24 homeruns just two seasons ago, in 2010. That year, he had a .250/.294/.447 line, good for a .319 wOBA. Gonzalez isn't going to come in and push the Brewers to another level. He won't fill a hole in the middle of the order.

But Gonzalez isn't Yuniesky Betancourt. Sure, they both profile as similar hitters. Both are free-swingers who don't get on base very much. The main offensive talent of both is a little bit of power and decent contact rates. Gonzalez is a little better than Betancourt. Gonzalez has hit over 20 home runs in a season, something Betancourt has never done. Gonzalez has been over a .310 OBP three times in his career, something that Betancourt has never done. Are these pretty low benchmarks? Yes. But Betancourt was truly so bad that Alex Gonzalez is better than him.

And that's just hitting. The Brewers aren't going to be paying Alex Gonzalez to be a hitter. It would be nice, but the big reason the Brewers are signing Alex Gonzalez is because he can actually play defense. And he plays defense pretty well, too. Gonzalez has played shortstop his entire nine-year career, with five different teams. His UZR/150 in that time is 6.3. Here are his UZR/150s since 2006:

Year UZR/150
2006 14.6
2007 7.9
2008 -.-
2009 12.2
2010 4.2
2011 -0.3

A single season represents a small sample size. Several seasons give you a pretty good idea of how good Gonzalez can be at defense. It looked like he was worse in 2011 and it may be true that he has lost a step over the years.The guy is 34 years old now. But that looks like an outlier and the bigger picture still shows him at or near elite status as a defensive shortstop.

Being that good of a defender brings immense value to the Milwaukee Brewers. For a team that looks like it might be relying heavily on their starting staff, the Brewers needed to solidify their defense. Gonzalez could very well ease the minds of the starting rotation, who had to be frustrated with Yuniesky Betancourt last season. Zack Greinke has shown an awareness of his defense, and it could have something to do with why he struggled with giving up the long ball last season. Instead of pitching to contact, Greinke decided to go for strikeouts. While he struck out hitters at a better rate than ever before in his career, that strategy may have also caused Greinke to throw more mistake pitches which increased his HR/9 to his highest rate since 2006.

Now, the Brewers have a player who can reach grounders that are headed up the middle. A shortstop who looks like he actually cares and takes pride in his defense. Alex Gonzalez won't let this ball get by him. Alex Gonzalez probably gets to this ball, too. If you didn't look at those links, you could probably guess that they demonstrate the sterling defensive play of Yuniesky Betancourt.

Alex Gonzalez signing with the Brewers isn't a flashy move, nor is it a move that, in and of itself, will win the Brewers many games in 2012. But putting Alex Gonzalez into the context of replacing Yuniesky Betancourt turns this from a blah move to a very good move. Just on defense alone, Gonzalez might be worth well over 1.0 fWAR more than Yuniesky Betancourt.

But Gonzalez really might be worth even more than that. Yuniesky Betancourt potentially lost the Brewers several games with shoddy defense, including at least one playoff game. While Alex Gonzalez won't exactly win games for the Brewers, he also isn't going to lose them, either. Gonzalez is not going to let ground balls go right past him. He won't show absolutely no effort getting to balls that are more than a couple meters away from him.

Even better, Alex Gonzalez is going to come fairly cheap. For the cash-strapped Milwaukee Brewers, that's nothing but a good thing. It could even afford them the flexibility of still searching out a decent bat to help negate the loss of Prince Fielder. That all depends on what Brewers owner Mark Attanasio signs off on, of course, but the Brewers are showing they still want to win.

Alex Gonzalez isn't exactly going to be a run scorer. But he is going to be a run saver. It's what he does. And that's very good news for the Brewers.

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Alex Gonzalez will not let the ball past him,

and K-Rod will not blow 12 games in the first half of the season. If Attanasio nuts up and signs Aramis Ramirez, we are looking like a 100 win team! Perhaps.

You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!

by brewersfanatic on Dec 8, 2011 4:10 PM CST reply actions  

100 wins

to go with our $100M payroll

:)

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Dec 8, 2011 4:11 PM CST up reply actions  

They won 96 last year and could have easily won 100

I don’t think it’s that unrealistic if a couple players have big years (looking at you, The Greinke)

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 4:17 PM CST up reply actions  

I think improved defense is going to help Grienke so, so much.

Also, 3B should be better one way or another, too. And shortstop is now already better. And Lucroy should hopefully improve.

by Noah Jarosh on Dec 8, 2011 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

that's assuming our offensive production has no dropoff

and Braun has another MVP year. i’m sure he’ll have a great year, but to expect identical numbers is asking a bit much at this point…

by maxximus02 on Dec 8, 2011 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Braun was the only one who had a career year though.

Not like Weeks or Hart were doing anything out of the ordinary.

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 4:23 PM CST up reply actions  

If Gamel is decent and Melvin somehow signs A-Ram, I honestly think the offense could improve pretty easily.

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 4:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Exactly

There’s room for improvement across the board despite the loss of Fielder. Injuries to Greinke, Hart and Weeks as well as a really bad season by McGehee didn’t stop the team from winning 96 games.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Dec 8, 2011 4:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah but a sig. worse bullpen, I think.

A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.

by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 8, 2011 5:06 PM CST up reply actions  

probably not, the strength of our bullpen at the end of last year was def k-rod/axe-man. We've got that combo again.

we have a number of competent pen arms in our system. As long as Loe, Parra, Braddock, McClendon, (fiers?) stay in their roles and don’t need to be set-up men or closers, they will do fine. In fact since we’ll have K-Rod all year, we should have a better year overall from our bullpen.

by DudeBrewzWI on Dec 8, 2011 5:13 PM CST up reply actions  

But.....

We probably won’t have K-rod

A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.

by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 8, 2011 5:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Parra + Braddock are pretty good.

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 6:12 PM CST up reply actions  

I think so too

I know Parra is a wildcard what with the injury wasted 2011, but he looked nice in relief in 2010.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 6:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Exactly, they have both pitched very effectively in the pen in the past

given a little good fortune they could both have very good years. And yeah we might not have K-Rod but we also might. Losing him realistically could only help. If we don’t have him, you can bet that Melvin will find another 8th inning man. This bullpen should be solid if not great all year.

by DudeBrewzWI on Dec 8, 2011 6:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Not to mention

If Braddock can put all his personal issues behind him and pitch like he’s capable of, he can probably be just as effective as K-Rod. Don’t forget he was originally tagged as the future closer, not Axford.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Dec 9, 2011 10:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Way to take a stance peter king

Could they win 100 games? Perhaps. Could they win 173 en route to a packer-esque perfect season? Maybe! Could we have no idea what’s going to happen? There’s a legit 40% chance. Sort of.
We’ll just have to sit back and watch it be lofty.

"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
BCB Fantasy Football League 1 Champ

by Hyatt on Dec 8, 2011 4:19 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Even when we overrate your comment, it's still underrated

Name 5 comments better, you can’t!

"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
BCB Fantasy Football League 1 Champ

by Hyatt on Dec 8, 2011 6:47 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Jingoism prevents me from agreeing

"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
BCB Fantasy Football League 1 Champ

by Hyatt on Dec 8, 2011 4:20 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Also yards?

I think you are giving Yuni too much credit

by proachinf on Dec 8, 2011 5:00 PM CST up reply actions  

The shortstop bats 6th. You have no concept.
The Brewers aren’t going to be paying Alex Gonzalez to be a hitter.

Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".

by Yar Nivek on Dec 8, 2011 4:27 PM CST reply actions  

I've been away for awhile

so can someone update me on how the roster looks right now and who is projected to start where?

Packers' Magic Numbers:
Clinch Division = DONE!!!
Clinch 1st Rd Bye = 1
Clinch Homefield = 3

by Bezerkers on Dec 8, 2011 4:41 PM CST reply actions  

Right now:

C – Jonathan Lucroy
1B – Mat Gamel
2B – Rickie Weeks
SS – Alex Gonzalez
3B – Casey McGehee
LF – Ryan Braun
CF – Nyjer Morgan/Carlos Gomez
RF – Corey Hart

SP – Zack Greinke
SP – Yovani Gallardo
SP – Shaun Marcum
SP – Randy Wolf
SP – Chris Narveson

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 4:44 PM CST up reply actions  

I get the feeling a hit will then be put on the manager.

Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.

by cooper82 on Dec 8, 2011 5:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I think he's right, though

remember the comment about how McGehee will be a full time player, even if Aramis Ramirez was signed?

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 6:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm assuming he'll play 3B.

If they sign someone to play 3B, like Ramirez, I’m assuming they meant he would play 1B.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 7:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I think if they sign Ramirez, this team is a 92+ win team

Without another impact bat, I’m not so sure.

The bullpen should be pretty good, the SP should be very good if the main guys stay healthy, but the lineup has no real cleanup hitter and no real leadoff hitter unless RRR mans up and puts Morgan in the leadoff spot.

I’ll take:

Morgan
Hart
Braun
Ramirez
Weeks
Gamel
Gonzalez
Lucroy

Grillax people

by jmeks23 on Dec 8, 2011 4:53 PM CST reply actions  

I think they're 92+ without Ramirez

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 4:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes!

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 6:12 PM CST up reply actions  

(I mean, I don’t know what Green can really do, but Ramirez is probably a safer bet to at least hit)

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 6:13 PM CST up reply actions  

What about Weeks in the cleanup spot?

I would like to sign Ramirez, but if they don’t, I’ve always felt that Weeks could be a solid cleanup hitter. The dude hits a lot of home runs. Also, if he’s hitting fourth, he might change his approach a little bit. We didn’t get a good feel for what he could do while hitting 5th last year. I have always felt that, as a cleanup hitter, Weeks could realistically have a 30/120 season.

by pauldietrich on Dec 8, 2011 5:02 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Have Ramirez bat seventh and scare the crap outta people there

A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.

by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 8, 2011 5:11 PM CST up reply actions  

What methodology are you using to determine their win total?

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 6:09 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't know about him, but I think about the players we have, the manager we have,

the teams in the division, and then I pull a number out of my ass.

Translation: you probably shouldn’t listen to anything I say.

"fortunate, but also lucky"

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 8, 2011 6:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, that's what I'm driving at

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 7:08 PM CST up reply actions  

So it's the BtC method

But without the patented “Brewers penalty”

"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa

by mnbrewer on Dec 8, 2011 8:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Definitely better with Ramirez

With Ramirez, I agree, this team is probably better than last year’s simply because we would only have one gaping black hole in our lineup (gonzalez) and not two. That makes a huge difference. When you have more guys having good at-bats and wearing down the other pitcher, good things will follow. Plus, Ramirez is generally going to have a higher average than prince (though not as high obp or slg). Also the combo of ramirez/gamel at 1st in 3rd is likely to be a wash in offensive numbers with mcgehee/fielder last year (if not higher) and possibly an upgrade in defense at both positions (albeit a small one). Adding Ramirez gives us the best chance at winning it all.
However, even if we don’t sign ramirez, we could still be a 96 win team. Obviously we would need Casey to go back to his 2010 form and that is a bit of a risk but it’s possible. If he does, we again could be looking at a better lineup than in 2011 with more experience.
I agree about morgan/gomez leadoff, hart 2 and also with weeks in the cleanup if we don’t have ramirez. Weeks could def be a good cleanup hitter.

by DudeBrewzWI on Dec 8, 2011 5:11 PM CST reply actions  

Pretty much what I would say about it to

My dad asked this morning who I hoped they would get, and I said Gonzalez. Can’t help but be happy. He’s the same hitter and a much better defender.

E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).

by Jordan M on Dec 8, 2011 5:12 PM CST reply actions  

I'd be willing to bet he's a better hitter

The results might be the same (batting line), but I can’t imagine Gonzalez watches less pitches and pops the ball up as much as Yuni.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Dec 9, 2011 10:18 AM CST up reply actions  

His on base numbers suggest he doesn't see many more pitches than Yuni did.

But he’s got a little more power. More power and better defense sounds good to me.

"fortunate, but also lucky"

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 10, 2011 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

That's actually his pre-Gonzalez projection

With competent defense at SS my system is giving me a 16 WAR projection.

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 6:14 PM CST up reply actions  

You must be using a B-R based system

my fangraphs based system has him at 23.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 6:17 PM CST up reply actions  

How come my brain won't let me participate?

I like to be happy too, you know, even if it doesn’t seem like it.

"fortunate, but also lucky"

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 8, 2011 5:39 PM CST up reply actions  

16 more shopping days, Mr. Scrooge!

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 6:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Charlie has it right

You have to wait until the three ghosts visit you.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Dec 9, 2011 10:19 AM CST up reply actions  

Does a white deer count?

I saw one of those the other day, and it was sort of eerie.

"fortunate, but also lucky"

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 10, 2011 12:48 PM CST up reply actions  

I think 88-92 is fair

Slight upgrade at shortstop, same team elsewhere, expectation of better overall performance at 3rd, -3 to -4 wins at first base. Bullpen is worse but K-Rod for a full year balances some of the loss of Hawkins and Saito. Even if this is the team they go into the season with I’d say you’re looking somewhere around there.

E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).

by Jordan M on Dec 8, 2011 5:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Probably have to make up some production from LF too.

It’s highly unlikely that Braun will put up the same kind of season he did last year, regardless of whether you subscribe to the “protection” theory of him benefiting from having Fielder behind him in the lineup.

"fortunate, but also lucky"

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 8, 2011 5:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Protection Myth has nothing to do with it

But if you look at Braun’s stats, he’s become increasingly more disciplined and selective at the plate. I really can’t see that suddenly reversing.

Will he repeat as MVP? Its unlikely, but these are absolutely his peak performance years.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 6:11 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Frankly, if people aren't afraid of Weeks in the 4 slot

Braun is going to be crossing the plate a lot on Weeks doubles and HRs. Week is going to be a fantastic clean up hitter. He even has the speed on the bases to get himself home with a black hole at the bottom of the order. Braun’s production should be fine.

by ecocd on Dec 8, 2011 9:40 PM CST up reply actions  

I love Rickie

But I don’t see him as a good cleanup hitter. He strikes out WAY too much. Think of all the times Braun will get left on base because of his SOs.

(Verb) you cardinals.

by Taterwithbacon on Dec 9, 2011 12:39 AM CST up reply actions  

Unless they add Ramirez

There aren’t really any better options unless you move Braun to the cleanup spot.

Hart strikes out more than Rickie and anyone else is kind of meh.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Dec 9, 2011 10:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Misuse of WAR, but:

’11 Prince: 5.5 fWAR
’11 McGehee: 0.3 fWAR
’11 Betancourt: 0.5 fWAR
’11 1B/3B/SS: 6.3 fWAR

’12 Gamel: 2.0 fWAR
’12 McGehee/Green: 2.0 fWAR
’12 Gonzalez: 1.5 fWAR
’12 1B/3B/SS: 5.5

Hawkins/Saito combined for 0.9 fWAR all season, I think Parra/Braddock can match that pretty easily.

Braun might not be as good, but Greinke and others surely will be.

Unless you think they drastically over-performed last season, I think 92+ wins even without Ramirez is quite realistic.

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 6:26 PM CST up reply actions  

surely will be better*

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 6:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I think you're assuming optimal use by RR, which is unlikely.

And it’s likely that someone who had a good year last year will fall on their face in 12, because it almost always happens to someone. My bet is on Hart or Morgan, possibly Wolf.

… and then there’s Marcum. If you know what to think about him, you’re a better man than I am. If his late season implosion carries over the rotation looks a lot worse, in my opinion.

I’m hopeful for 90 at this point if they add another bat, but much beyond that feels unrealistic to me.

"fortunate, but also lucky"

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 8, 2011 6:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Well nobody knows for sure

But if you’re counting on a certain number of players to fall on their face in 2012, that seems pessimistic to me.

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 6:57 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not too worried about Marcum

I’m chalking up the end of the season to being tired – too much use too close to tj surgery. I think he’ll be as good next year as he was this year. Apart from the end of last year, he’s really been quite consistent over his past 3 seasons played.

by pauldietrich on Dec 8, 2011 7:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I think we did overperform our talent a bit.

Mostly in close and late games.

Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.

by cooper82 on Dec 8, 2011 6:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Do you disagree that they were a potential 96-100 win team last year?

I don’t understand how losing Prince makes them that much worse. Yeah, Braun probably won’t be as good, but a whole bunch of other guys should be even better.

I feel like people are forgetting how good the Brewers pitching is (because of the playoff meltdown)

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 6:17 PM CST up reply actions  

McGehee/Green at 3B can only be better

SS can only be better.

2B should be better with Rickie not missing time (hopefully).

Greinke should be better.

I don’t think its unreasonable to expect a 6+ WAR season from Braun.

Gamel/Sack o’ Potatoes should be able to put up at least 2 WAR.

How is it that the team is going to be terrible? I just don’t get it.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 6:19 PM CST up reply actions  

I know, 'Terrible' is hyperbole

but, really, I don’t see that big of a drop off.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 6:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Mine is certainly an everything-goes-right prediction. As i mentioned, Casey McGehee would have to be top form

which isn’t necessarily ridiculous and the other guys would all have to perform at about the same levels (or a little better) than they did in 2011. but yup, a guys can hope right?

by DudeBrewzWI on Dec 8, 2011 6:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Thank you

I was definitely not understanding that the loss of Prince was just dismissed.

Gamel is an amazing wildcard. Dismissing 1B offense is not insignificant.

by KDean75 on Dec 8, 2011 7:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Who

is doing that?

What massive upgrade at SS? I really like the Gonzalez signing and defensively, it is a big improvement. But offensively, it is a downgrade, like or not.

If, and it’s a big if, the Brewers sign Aramis, then compared to last year, yes, an upgrade. But again, if.

by KDean75 on Dec 9, 2011 9:35 AM CST up reply actions  

It's not a downgrade offensively

Gonzalez is Yuni with the bat, but a plus defender.

by cwolf20 on Dec 9, 2011 9:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Downgrade offensively?

Gonzalez has a higher career OPS than Betancourt (.690 vs .683)

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Dec 9, 2011 10:34 AM CST up reply actions  

are

we really going to argue over 7 basis points? Fine, it’s a wash.

But anyway, last year Yuni had an OPS 10 points higher than Gonzalez. Gonzalez is also turning 35 years old.

by KDean75 on Dec 9, 2011 12:56 PM CST up reply actions  

anyway

Yuni is gone, thank the maker for that.

by KDean75 on Dec 9, 2011 1:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Gonzalez is a huge upgrade over the worst fulltime player in the majors

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2011 2:40 PM CST up reply actions  

How about looking at the past three seasons?

Yuni: .658
Gonzalez: .678

Gonzalez is about 5 years older than Yuni, but Yuni also has the range of a 40 year old.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Dec 9, 2011 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

They're going to get serious upgrades at some positions where they need help

I wouldn’t miss Pujols all that much in the grand scheme of things unless the GM screws the pooch and doesn’t fill need spots with quality players.

Does anyone find it the least bit curious that the Cardinals, the team that knows him better than anyone else in the league, offered him the smallest contract? I think the Marlins and mystery team are going to be very relieved they didn’t win that bidding war in a few years.

by ecocd on Dec 8, 2011 9:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Because they're hamstrung by their dumb Holliday contract?

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 11:28 PM CST up reply actions  

(I hate Pujols but the dude’s one of the greatest players of all time. Players of his caliber rarely break down even into their late-30s.)

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 11:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Typically I would point to A-Rod as an arguement for this.

But I think we all know why he tanked after he signed that contract.

by WIHomer on Dec 8, 2011 11:33 PM CST up reply actions  

True, but they might break down in their early 40s

E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).

by Jordan M on Dec 8, 2011 11:36 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Maybe

I think most deals longer than 3+ years you end up overpaying for the guy at some point though. I think Pujols is a pretty good bet to come close to earning the contract, not that they didn’t probably overpay some in terms of absolute value.

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 9, 2011 3:41 AM CST up reply actions  

It is kind of funny like that

The time that you’re most likely to get increasing production throughout a long contract is early in a player’s career which is exactly when teams aren’t locking up their players because the possibility of injury or simply not extending previous 2 years of success 5 years from now. Then those same teams sign a player to a contract that includes $19 million for their age 39 season where they’re all but guaranteed to be broken down.

The way Melvin has been aggressively buying out arbitration years makes me think he’s figured this out. Hmmmm, I’m going to have to re-evaluate Melvin’s performance as a GM now. I keep ignoring the extensions he signs and focus on the trades he makes and the free agent contracts he signs. He’s a lot better than I typically give him credit for. I mean, even his decision to exercise Cameron’s $10 million option pretty much worked out.

by ecocd on Dec 9, 2011 6:28 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

With the cheaper Shortstop and Pujols gone to his only other major suitor

Aramis has got to be in the bag. DM got word from Mark the Man Himself that he could still make deals.

(Verb) you cardinals.

by Taterwithbacon on Dec 8, 2011 6:22 PM CST reply actions  

Well, its increasingly looking like the team may not be able to cut K-Rod

so, you have to account for his salary. I don’t think Ramirez can fit into the budget.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 6:24 PM CST up reply actions  

it doesn't look good and yet you know Doug Melvin. Also, is it completely get-the-heck-out-of-town-ridiculous

to think that they might stretch the budget and risk it for one year for the sake of jumping at a very good chance? I know we have to be careful about not hurting for the future but K-Rod is only a one year expenditure. Ramirez would be 3 years around 40 million. Couldn’t we back-load that contract a bit and survive considering we will be cutting between 18 and 20 million next year losing wolf and K-Rod? Also, the increases for weeks and hart and others would be minimal next year…

by DudeBrewzWI on Dec 8, 2011 6:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Increases for 2013

Braun – $2.5M
Gallardo – $2.25M
Hart – $1M
Weeks – none

And that’s not even considering the raises that first-year arbitration guys will be getting (Axford, Estrada and Narveson).

However, I agree that there’s a chance that the Brewers are willing to stretch the payroll this season by holding onto K-Rod.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Dec 9, 2011 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

I think if they keep K-Rod it's just Mark A. taking on $10 million or whatever out of his own pocket

Not sure if even affects their offseason spending that much.

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 6:27 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

The budget has been thrown away and burned

Mark is smart and has more money in his pocket that he’s willing to invest. He knows with Pujols gone the crads are not as good, and that this is a big chance for us. There’s a reason he’s the best owner in baseball, he’d shoulder that for the team and the fans no problem. We came into the winter needing a cleanup hitter I don’t think we’ll leave without one

(Verb) you cardinals.

by Taterwithbacon on Dec 8, 2011 6:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't buy that

I also don’t think they’ll be irresponsible.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 7:11 PM CST up reply actions  

At this point it's not so much a matter of what's irresponsible

At least I think so. I just think the better thing to do would be to correct the K-rod mistake by extending the budget a bit. We may be the smallest market in baseball, but we certainly don’t draw the smallest crowds. We should be allowed to have a decent sized payroll, I know we’ll be pushing it but there will be a lot of money leaving next year anyways in K-rod and Wolf.

(Verb) you cardinals.

by Taterwithbacon on Dec 8, 2011 7:20 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Also one of the lowest if not the lowest ticket prices in all of baseball, if I recall correctly

smallest TV contract I believe as well.

I guess we’ll just disagree here. I don’t think that signing Aramis Ramirez to $15M AAV is responsible.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 7:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Fair enough

I don’t think he’ll cost quite that much if he wants to come here and his other options are like, the orioles, but I do see your point for sure. Aren’t we due for a bigger TV contract soon? Or did that not go like it was supposed to and I missed it.

(Verb) you cardinals.

by Taterwithbacon on Dec 8, 2011 7:32 PM CST up reply actions  

+20mil from the new TV contract

and ticket prices up ~6%

A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.

by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 8, 2011 8:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Its fair to assume all of that $20M goes right into player payroll.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 9:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with you but I

think that it may be too late to raise prices on tickets. They were already raised some small amount I think.

(Verb) you cardinals.

by Taterwithbacon on Dec 8, 2011 7:38 PM CST up reply actions  

You really think he's going to take a paycut to play in Milwaukee?

He hasn’t made less than $14M in a season since 2007.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 9:44 PM CST up reply actions  

He has shown in the past that he's willing to take a py cut to play where he wants to.

He could have made a lot more than the Cubs gave him, I mentioned this before and I don’t remember exactly what his remarks were but they were along the lines of “how much money do you need to make?”

So there is precedent.

I have no concept.

by menchkins on Dec 8, 2011 10:58 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Ah ok

I don’t.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 11:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, but if there's nobody willing to pay him $14 million...

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 11:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Does casey get non tendered if we sign aramis

"You want to see some consistency. Doug takes the ball and gives you a solid effort each time out."

Doug Melvin

by russelTHEmuscle on Dec 8, 2011 6:25 PM CST reply actions  

I wouldn't think so.

Option 1. He plays first base or at least competes for that spot
Option 2. He makes a good, cheap bench player.

by DudeBrewzWI on Dec 8, 2011 6:28 PM CST up reply actions  

both good options

I rerally wouldnt want to get rid of him but it frees up more money

"You want to see some consistency. Doug takes the ball and gives you a solid effort each time out."

Doug Melvin

by russelTHEmuscle on Dec 8, 2011 6:30 PM CST up reply actions  

He's not

At least not yet. He’s arbitration-eligible for the first time this year. The Brewers have yet to sign him to a contract, but estimates are that he’d probably get $3.1M in arbitration.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Dec 9, 2011 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

He might

Considering Green could backup third and Aramis could back up 1st.

(Verb) you cardinals.

by Taterwithbacon on Dec 8, 2011 6:31 PM CST reply actions  

Reply fail

Meant for russel’s comment

(Verb) you cardinals.

by Taterwithbacon on Dec 8, 2011 6:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Very valid point

but if money becomes an issue, it is a way to price cut the infield.

(Verb) you cardinals.

by Taterwithbacon on Dec 8, 2011 6:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Money

IS an issue

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 7:12 PM CST up reply actions  

How much more experience do you think Green needs?

He’s 25 years old and hit .336/.413/.583 in Nashville last season. I don’t recall reading/hearing anything about him needing to work on his defense (like Gamel).

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Dec 9, 2011 10:47 AM CST up reply actions  

So....

… we need a bench and Ryan Theriot’s available….

"fortunate, but also lucky"

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 8, 2011 6:32 PM CST reply actions  

There's only room for one doucher on the Brewers

Why do you think they traded Lawrie last off season? Know if I only knew how to post a pic of Brauny in a sweeet tiger shirt.

by WIHomer on Dec 8, 2011 7:25 PM CST up reply actions  

It's not a tiger shirt, but...

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Dec 9, 2011 10:49 AM CST up reply actions  

I think he'll be more expensive than Cedeno

Cedeno’s not good or anything but I’d take a look at him for sure.

E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).

by Jordan M on Dec 8, 2011 8:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I was kinda hoping

they would trade for Jason Bartlett he doesn’t bring power but he has pretty good defense, gets on base, and has some speed but o well hopefully gonzalez will b good

by baseball5 on Dec 8, 2011 6:33 PM CST reply actions  

I don't know what Gonzalez's contract is for

but Bartlett is getting $5.5M this season and has an option for 2013 with a $1.5M buyout.

Besides, who would we trade?

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Dec 9, 2011 10:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Great posts folks

It’s been a rough day I appreciate the laughs.

by WIHomer on Dec 8, 2011 7:22 PM CST reply actions  

This is the nutshell of this entire thread.

Have we gotten ahead of ourselves and overreacted to the signing of Gonzalez? Yep. But that’s not what it’s about.
Have we gotten ahead of ourselves and overreacted to the non-signing of Yuni? Nope. I say that party is only just beginning.

by kotsaythebuzzkill on Dec 8, 2011 7:37 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Say this deal is for $3 million.

If K-Rod gets $14 million, what is the Brewers current payroll at?

by Noah Jarosh on Dec 8, 2011 7:33 PM CST reply actions  

TH quoted $71 million pre-KRod, so that would make it $88 million (with a $95 million target)

I don’t know where he was getting his numbers though.

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 8:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Say $71M

+ $3M for the Bass, eat $4m and trade K-Rod…
That’s $78M.
Sign Ramirez for $10M, sprinkle $7M around on a utility infielder, maybe a platoon mate for Gamel, and Saito.
I really think we need to offload K-Rod still, and I don’t think it should be too difficult.

by BrAUer on Dec 8, 2011 8:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Out of his ass

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 9:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Well

$94.244M if you go with my estimates, $96.144M if you go by MLBTR’s arb estimates.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 9:46 PM CST up reply actions  

That's a lot of money

It’s cut-and-dry that KRod will be gone either by cut or by trade. Let’s assume $3 million to make KRod go away. Puts them back to $83 million to 2 back-of-the-bullpen guys, 3B, 1B, Utility IF, 5th outfielder. That’s not enough for Ramirez so he’s out of the picture. That’s not enough to be able to gamble $3 million on keeping McGehee, either. There’s pretty much enough to fill the bullpen and the back up position players.

by ecocd on Dec 8, 2011 9:53 PM CST up reply actions  

You never know

maybe they non-tender Parra and McGehee. That frees up $4M in my estimate, and they’re right back to $79M.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 9:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Except that

There’s no way in hell DM will keep F-Rod on the roster more than a month.

by nullacct on Dec 8, 2011 9:48 PM CST up reply actions  

I think that the players union will file a grievance if they try to cut him for performance

in which case, I’m pretty sure that they’ll owe the whole salary anyway.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 9:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Only if KRod doesn't sign somewhere else

I have a sneaky suspicion that he’ll find a job elsewhere. The Brewers would likely only be liable for the difference between the two contracts.

by ecocd on Dec 8, 2011 9:54 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not sure exactly how it works

but I think it would be a violation of the CBA, not of a non-guaranteed contract.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 9:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Sooooo

He gets $15 million from the Brewers AND the $8-10 million from a free agent contract? I doubt the owners would’ve let that kind of double jeopardy into the CBA.

by ecocd on Dec 8, 2011 10:51 PM CST up reply actions  

No

I’m saying the contract is non-guaranteed which is why they can pay termination pay. At that point, they’ve fulfilled their obligation. If he signs somewhere else, fine. If they file a grievance and win, I think the Brewers must pay him e.g. he is on their team, not allowed to cut him.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 11:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Ohhhhh.

And likely extremely pissed unless he has a head on his shoulders and realizes he was the one that put the team in that position in the first place. Introspection isn’t a common trait among people that would put the team in that position, however.

Thanks for the clarification. The whole process makes a lot of sense now.

by ecocd on Dec 9, 2011 6:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, I'm not even sure if that's how it goes

but it makes logical sense to me since its non guaranteed.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2011 10:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Players have been cut in the past strictly for payroll reasons without an outcry from the union

Granted, I don’t think it was for someone as high a caliber as K-Rod, but it has happened.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Dec 9, 2011 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

And/or when you're cutting them after they unexpectedly accepted arbitration and you admit publicly that you offered arbitration in the hopes of getting the compensatory picks.

Six months later it’s hard to say “We cut him because he sucks” and have anyone believe you. Unless he really, really sucks.

"fortunate, but also lucky"

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 10, 2011 12:53 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Same here

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 10:02 PM CST up reply actions  

So um

think we can swing a trade with the Angels – KRod for Kendrys Morales straight up?

by Archibaldcrane on Dec 8, 2011 8:28 PM CST reply actions  

I haven't seen anything about them cutting him.

But they are quite obviously sceptical about his ability to have a productive career at this point.

by WIHomer on Dec 8, 2011 8:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Stat that says it all: 2009-2011 Defensive Runs Saved (DRS)

Alex Gonzalez: +23
Yuniesky Betancourt = -46

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 8, 2011 8:42 PM CST reply actions  

MY GOD!

I could sit at short in a lawn chair and a bucket full of High Life ponies and be worth more than -46 runs scored.

by WIHomer on Dec 8, 2011 8:44 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Combined with...

…the pan of lasagna, would put Yuni to shame…may we never have to type his name in vain again. Arrivederci, mani di ferro!

It wasn't the best of times, it wasn't the worst of times, but all in all 2011 season was a pretty damn good time

by PlusorMinusThree on Dec 9, 2011 12:15 AM CST up reply actions  

And just for Old Time's Sake

all credit to nullacct

It wasn't the best of times, it wasn't the worst of times, but all in all 2011 season was a pretty damn good time

by PlusorMinusThree on Dec 9, 2011 12:20 AM CST up reply actions  

Hm?

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 8, 2011 11:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Technically yes

however, the way you typed it (which I know was intentional) seemed to indicate that the trade involved one guy named McGhee and one guy named Weathers.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Dec 9, 2011 11:14 AM CST up reply actions  

So

I just read through the thread A-Gon on Front Row Amy’s FB page… and all I have to say is…
FACEPALM FACEPALM FACEPALM

by WIHomer on Dec 8, 2011 11:25 PM CST reply actions  

Houston's going to sign him. It's too obvious.

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 9, 2011 3:42 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't know.

He’ll get a minor league contract somewhere simply because he’s capable of playing the position without actively hurting himself and that’s worth something to a team where their sole purpose is to put a team on the field so they can make money through revenue sharing. The (un)official salary floor means there will always be some unusual decisions (Kendall playing for the Royals after he left the Brewers).

Any team that’s willing to sign him to a minor league contract very well could have an injury at shortstop and Yuni would get called up. If he gets called up in August, he’ll have a blockbuster month to “justify” his inclusion on the roster for the rest of the year in which he tanks again.

I wouldn’t count him out entirely. There are a lot of dumb GMs and unscrupulous owners out there.

by ecocd on Dec 9, 2011 6:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Has Carlos Beltran signed?

Because I think Beltran in right with Hart at first could work for the Crew. Helps keep the lineup balanced and they can rest Beltran with Logan.

by Big10freak on Dec 9, 2011 7:05 AM CST reply actions  

I think RRR, Doug, and Gord Ash have all said that there is no possibility that Hart moves to 1B

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."

~RRR

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2011 10:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Sure why not

I mean we’re looking at the payroll being at an all-time high… why not break the bank completely and add another $19M to sign Beltran. Also, he’ll be wanting that to be a multi-year deal too.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Dec 9, 2011 11:19 AM CST up reply actions  

from BrewerNation:
Hearing the #Brewers are still attempting to come to terms w/ Aramis Ramirez. Right now the hangup is # of years. Middle ground does exist.

apparently Brewers want to go 3 years, Ramirez wants 5

I am too drunk to taste this chicken.

by ThroughBeingCool on Dec 9, 2011 8:22 AM CST reply actions  

5 years?

Sorry, A-Ram, no one’s going to give you that. The Brewers can afford to wait him out.

by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 9, 2011 8:27 AM CST up reply actions  

I really do hope this goes through

top to bottom i think we’re a better team with Alex Gonzalez + ArmRam. anyone want to put odds on it?

Ring Out Ahoya!

by bleedbluegold03 on Dec 9, 2011 9:01 AM CST up reply actions  

I think it's gonna happen

Might be a while, though – the Brewers don’t seem to have much competition (the Angels were his main other suitor, I believe, and they’ve got to be out now), so they might wait for his demands to drop. And if he doesn’t sign, they’ll just go with McGehee/Green, so time’s on the Brewers’ side.

by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 9, 2011 9:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Is that the guy that makes everything up again?

If Plush had to pick Wearwolf or Vampire, I'm a Wearwolf!

by SRB on Dec 9, 2011 1:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Damn!

If only there was a mathematical genius somewhere who could somehow find out the obviously non-existent “middle ground” between three years and five years….

"I love it when any team called 'The Brew Crew' wins": Tad Kubler
"LOLOL I LOVE YUNI!!!!": ThroughBeingCool

by MrLeam on Dec 9, 2011 2:27 PM CST up reply actions  

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