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Thursday's Frosty Mug

Some things to read while drinking a lot more coffee.

The fields in Maryvale were quiet yesterday as the Brewers took their lone off day of the spring, and players were ordered to stay away from the facility. With the break out of the way, the Brewers now play seven games in the next six days before heading off to Cincinnati.

It's time once again this morning to give Mark Attanasio the credit he deserves for turning things around in Milwaukee. Forbes issued their annual team value estimates yesterday, and the Brewers came in 22nd at $376 million (FanShot). They're already getting close to being worth double what Attanasio paid for them in 2005.

Ryan Braun's contribution to the franchise value is probably non-negligible. MLB.com is reporting that Braun's jersey is baseball's 14th most popular. (h/t Adam McCalvy)

The final infield spot on the bench is one of many questions the Brewers still need to answer before Opening Day. One-Man Sausage Fest has a look at the contenders and predicts the Brewers will keep Luis Cruz. I'd prefer they keep Erick Almonte but the roster situation (Cruz is on the 40 man and out of options, Almonte is on a minor league deal) means it probably makes sense to do it this way. Brian Carriveau of Pocket Doppler has a post on Almonte.

Mat Gamel is one of the candidates listed in the above piece, but he's already been optioned back to Nashville. Chris Cwik of FanGraphs has a look at the decision to ship Gamel out and his potential long term value.

Speaking of uncertainty, you can scratch Blue Jays pitcher Jo-Jo Reyes off the list of candidates for the fifth starter vacancy. He's needed now in Toronto since starter Brandon Morrow is going to open the season on the DL.

Other notes from camp:

If you only click one link in today's Mug, you could do worse than this one: Tim Brown of Yahoo has a great story on Prince Fielder, his potential final spring in Brewer camp and his relationship with his new manager.

If my math is correct, Yovani Gallardo is likely due one final tune up start before getting the ball on Opening Day a week from today. Ben Nicholson-Smith of MLB Trade Rumors says the fact that Gallardo is starting the opener is a sign that signing him to an extension was a good decision.

Speaking of Opening Day, if you're planning on making the trip to Cincinnati you might be interested in this list of Opening Weekend festivities.

If you bought Opening Day tickets, you probably got them hoping to see Zack Greinke. Dave Sheinin of The Washington Post has a look at the series of events that led to Greinke turning down a $100 million contract extension from the Nationals and waiving his no-trade clause to come to Milwaukee.

If I had to guess at this point, I'd say Greinke, Corey Hart, Jonathan Lucroy, Manny Parra and LaTroy Hawkins will start the season on the DL, although all of them should be ready to rejoin the team by the end of April. Jerry Crasnick notes that players who open the season on the DL cannot be reinstated before April 6.

Meanwhile, Carlos Gomez will almost certainly patrol center field on Opening Day. Jaymes Langrehr of The Brewers Bar has a look at his 2011 goals.

In the minors:

I'm surprised we haven't seen this announced sooner: Miller Park is one of eight ballparks that will be selling Food Network Branded Concession items this season. Follow the link for a description of the Red, White & Blue Steak Sandwich.

Here's a somewhat miscellaneous collection of predictions, previews and rankings:

Around baseball:

Angels: First baseman Kendrys Morales will open the season on the DL with a sore foot.
Nationals: Claimed pitcher Lee Hyde off waivers from the Braves and signed pitcher Oliver Perez to a minor league deal.
Yankees: Claimed pitcher Jose Ortegano off waivers from the Braves.

Today in former Brewers: The Blue Jays sent Brett Lawrie to minor league camp yesterday.

Here's today's baseball economics note: When Liberty Media, owners of the Braves, bought the team in 2008 they gained a tax advantage for five years. Those years are almost up, so they're expected to put the team up for sale soon.

I don't post about this as often as I used to when I lived in Des Moines, but it's worth noting that baseball's ridiculous blackout rules (which black out games in Iowa for the Brewers and five other teams) are still in effect.

Speaking of ridiculous things, here's a nominee for baseball's strangest 2011 giveaway: The Mariners are letting fans take home free compost. Now we know what happened to Jesus Colome.

If you only click two links in today's Mug, click the Tim Brown link above, then click this one from The Platoon Advantage to read about MC Hammer working for the A's.

If you're anything like me, you probably have a Netflix list with about 200 DVDs on it (and two DVDs you've been holding since January and still haven't watched). If you'd like to add some more, though, Larry Granillo of Baseball Prospectus has Bob Uecker's filmography.

With help from Brewerfan.net and the B-Ref Play Index, happy birthday today to:

Now, if you'll excuse me, I can't find my glasses.

Drink up.

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An interesting thought about Fielder's value

From Attanasio’s viewpoint, would it be worth the money to re-sign Fielder, even if it costs us a few wins, in favor of retaining a highly visible face of the franchise? Is there a net gain for him in franchise worth if Fielder hangs around in a Brewer uniform (and say what you want about him, Fielder gets press) and sells the logo and the recognition of the team and the city, even if it would be better from a dollar-per-win standpoint to use the money on other players?

by nullacct on Mar 24, 2011 9:30 AM CDT reply actions  

Winning is worth much, much more money than any individual player

If it means anything, Prince is at best the second most popular player on the team behind Braun.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Mar 24, 2011 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think Braun took over that after he signed his contract

Both the marketing people and fans in general are more willing to accept Braun as the face because they know he is going to be here awhile.

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by Jeo on Mar 24, 2011 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

amazing Yo doesn't get similar treatment

"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
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by Hyatt on Mar 24, 2011 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Without Cy Young buzz, pitchers just don't get attention

Maybe they did decades ago, but try to name a starting pitcher that’s gotten serious attention in the last 5 years without the Cy Young buzz? I suppose the same goes for trade buzz and free agent buzz. Gallardo hasn’t had any of those 3. It may not help that Macha tried to generally hide him, especially when he went with Suppan as a season opener.

by ecocd on Mar 24, 2011 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

He means the reporters and marketing people

cant say his name correctly

/sarcasm

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by Jeo on Mar 24, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Heard him talk?

He grew up in Texas speaking English and Spanish. His English is better than many people’s who don’t speak another language.

by mpbMKE on Mar 24, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes yes yes

I realize he speaks English and is from Texas, I meant that he doesn’t seem to talk much in interviews or do much PR/commercial stuff the same way Braun does and I think that might have to with his upbringing.

I would think that coming his childhood with parents who came from Mexico would be different than Braun’s childhood in California, and that affects his public persona.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Mar 24, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

He is quiet, true

Whereas Braun is… um… not. But so is Greinke, and his face is everywhere. I think he needs another ASG and some serious Cy Young attention before they base a lot of marketing around him. Though, for a high-priced long-term home-grown player, it is odd that they don’t push him a little further into the spotlight.

by mpbMKE on Mar 24, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah good points

And I apologize, “Language barrier” wasn’t the proper words to explain what I was thinking and makes me look like an idiot who thinks Yo doesn’t speak English.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Mar 24, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Greinke wouldn't be getting as much attention either

except that he won the Cy Young award.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Mar 24, 2011 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Partly the point

I was backing the idea that with Cy Young attention Yo would get more exposure. So we agree. Yay! :)

by mpbMKE on Mar 24, 2011 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Yo was raised in Ft. Worth

"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
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by Hyatt on Mar 24, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

and my girlfriend thinks he is kinda cute

of course she would leave me for braun and has told me that on multiple occasions so I guess that one might be true

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by Jeo on Mar 24, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

If the option presented itself...

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by Jeo on Mar 24, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

My wife thinks Braun looks like a fish.

She wanted some of Gange though. Maybe it’s the lumberjack look. I don’t even pretend to understand women.

by Mr. McGehee on Mar 24, 2011 1:10 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

My wife spent an entire game taking cellphone pictures of Braun

That’s what I get for splurging on good tickets behind the dugout.

You could actually see her in the crowd shots of the telecast, holding up her phone and snapping pics when he was on deck.

Though she also thinks Counsell is “cute.”

by Brew Angel on Mar 24, 2011 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Coming soon to a theater near you

Innocent wife or obsessed fan? From the chilling sequel to “Bobby”, it’s “Brauny” staring Brew Angel’s wife as a crazed fan who will stop at nothing for her beloved baseball player. How far is too far?

I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful

by Michael M on Mar 24, 2011 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmm depends on what type of cute

cute as in how babies and puppies are cute – fine
cute as in oh that guy is cute – might have a thing for young boys

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by Jeo on Mar 24, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

My creepiest experience at Miller Park

Was a girl in front of me not cheering or seemingly into the game at all. Then JJ Hardy would come up and she would take tons of pictures of him and tons of pictures of his picture on the scoreboard. It was weird.

My wife liked Counsell a lot, then we were at a game and he got thrown out trying to go from 1st to 3rd on a Wild Pitch and she got really, really pissed (she is a very casual fan, so this was surprising). It was a couple years ago and she still brings it up anytime she sees him on TV.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Mar 24, 2011 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

My wife was a big Braun fan

when we first got married (because of his looks)

But has since kind of turned on him as a result of the percieved attitude and outside activities (too cool restaurant, Remetee, etc.)

She still will wear the 8 shirt, and I never miss the opportunity to remind her she is wearing the shirt of a guy she doesnt really like. She in turn will tell me how much she despises Manny Ramirez when I wear my old Sox shirt of his.

by backtocali on Mar 24, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

For some reason, I think you might have helped her out with this:

But has since kind of turned on him as a result of the percieved attitude and outside activities (too cool restaurant, Remetee, etc.)

Ha ha

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Mar 24, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

haha, I was about to say the same thing.

I wonder who was taking every oppurtunity to pass remetee links along.. haha

http://www.mlbsoup.com

by tcyoung on Mar 24, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

manny

is the laziest SOB I’ve ever seen.

okay…i stand corrected, as I’m likely lazier, but I don’t get paid millions.

by PagsBrewCrew on Mar 24, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's hard to market a team around a guy who works once every five days.

This year’s team is different because of Greinke and Marcum, but if Gallardo had been the most marketable player last year then there would have been a problem four out of five days.

It’s not all that different from what the Royals experienced with Greinke.

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Mar 24, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Do you feel they give enough secndary attention to him?

I think the organization does try to give Gallardo attention even if he’s not the face of the franchise.

by ecocd on Mar 24, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know if this says anything about the marketing

but if you’re looking at the player goods available—the Target around here has shirts for Fielder, Braun, Greinke, and Gallardo,

by morineko on Mar 24, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Braun is also

much more articulate and camera-ready. He isn’t afraid to speak his mind.

I’ve always said I think Braun is the best thing to happen to Prince. I think it’s clear that Prince doesn’t like being the face of the franchise, he’s awful in front of the camera with his “ums” and “ya knows” and isn’t much of a public figure. I think he happily takes a backseat to Braun in these situations.

Braun fills all those roles with his commercial shoots, magazine covers and restaurants.

by Nicole Haase on Mar 24, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

for 2nd Batman reference in two days.

by mpbMKE on Mar 24, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Someone needs to send Fielder that picture of him as Batman

I think he’d get a real kick out of it. He looks really badass as Batman.

by ecocd on Mar 24, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

that sounds incredibly dirty

and not something his female fans want to hear.

by PagsBrewCrew on Mar 24, 2011 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

You forgot the mask

But you seem to be in mid-season form already. Kudos to you.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Mar 24, 2011 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Braun is Ironman

Cocky, arrogant, wealthy, and not bashful about who he is. Despite his faults, we still love him.

by Mr. McGehee on Mar 24, 2011 2:27 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions   2 recs

I’d say arrogant is a step too far. Everyone I know whose met him (including my friend who is basically his personal server at a local restaurant, since he’s the only one who doesn’t care who Ryan Braun is) says he’s very polite and congenial, which isn’t a quality of arrogance. I think he’s just very excited to be Ryan Braun. If only we could all have that kind of enthusiasm for ourselves, haha.

by mpbMKE on Mar 24, 2011 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Grammar Naziing myself

“Who’s,” or, better still, “who has.”

by mpbMKE on Mar 24, 2011 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

for making that connection.

by mpbMKE on Mar 24, 2011 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

"he’s just very excited to be Ryan Braun"

Wow, what a great way to sum up Ryan Braun perfectly. But you’re right. All reports say he’s very good with fans, always taking time for autographs, good with the media, etc.

My goodness.

by BrewHaHeather on Mar 24, 2011 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

He’s confident in himself, but I don’t know if he’s arrogant. I’ve also heard that he’s a nice guy too.

My manager went to fantasy baseball camp this season with some friends this year. He said that they went to a restaurant one night, and one of his buddies was wearing a Braun jersey. Later in the evening while sitting at the bar, someone walked up behind his buddy and put a hand on his shoulder… it was Braun. He chatted with them for about 15-20 minutes.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Mar 24, 2011 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Super cool!

I love hearing that stuff. It’s one thing to be cordial when fans come up to you, it’s another thing to go out of your way to make a connection.

by mpbMKE on Mar 24, 2011 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I agree

Braun has embraced that role better than most people could with his natural charisma.

Its amazing how cool and fun fielder is when they catch him on one of those videos in practice where he is the life of the field. You put a camera in his face and ask him questions with a microphone and he assuming you know everything.

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by Jeo on Mar 24, 2011 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

I still find it unnerving to watch a Braun interview

Watch his eyebrows when he talks.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Mar 24, 2011 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I am assuming that with this statement

You are saying that even if he were a “face of the franchise” type of player, his expected diminishing returns would result in fewer wins for the team, and thus dont sign him.

My thought is that he is going to be over paid by whoever signs him. And much like the Cordero issue a couple of years ago, you’ll get value for your dollar in the first half of the contract but will be overpaid immenseley in the last half.

Depending on how he does this year, Fielder is most likely entering his decline, so it would be wildly unwise to sign him to a bloated, long term contract. I think that Attanasio would like to act like a mid market owner but he really hasnt made any money yet on his investment. He would realize a gain with a sale, but if the current way of running the team is continued, especially in the next few years, that value for the franchise will drop as the core players age, a weak farm system, and diminished returns on the field resulting in smaller gates. I have speculated it before, but I wouldnt be at all surprised if Attanasio cant start to pull a big profit for the franchise on a year to year basis, he will sell within 5 or 6 years, cash in and look for greener pastures if available as an mlb owner.

by backtocali on Mar 24, 2011 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have no idea what Mark A's motivations are

Or any idea what the current, past or future financial books look like.

I think its sort of funny when fans think they do.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Mar 24, 2011 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Eh he's a business man

He wants to make money you would assume.

And statements he has made in the press in the past have indicated that even in the playoff year, they came close to breaking even.

As with advanced baseball analytics, we have to make the leap or estimate, that what is going on with Brewer finances is that they are simply treading water, even with big ticket sales. And that as the team ages, and if the farm system cant produce talent capable of winning divisions, that that treading water quickly turns into drowning.

by backtocali on Mar 24, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Was simply using advanced baseball metrics as an example

Of thinking outside of the box and coming to conclusions based on that.

I just dont think that as a reputable businessman (unline the previous owner(s)) he isnt going to make public statements that would be sandbagged in nature. The public perception of what money streams are coming in adds or diminishes value.

And also, a guy who runs a highly regulated business on the one hand, I would imagine having a very hard time would be able to turn off and on the “truth” when discussing their businesses.

by backtocali on Mar 24, 2011 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can live with that criticism

We dont know the full details, and can only gleen what may be the case through certain things that we do know, and what have been stated by MA in the press as far as revenuesgo, and I would have no reason to not believe what he has said. Even if he were to be hedging or sandbagging, its still a logical assumption to assume that the team is not in a great financial state.

We dont need to go back and forth here, you know my opinion, I know yours. But one question I have would be if you are going to believe him on some things when he is quoted in the media, why wouldnt you believe him when he says other things?

I dont know his personal motivations, but I do know he is a businessman, and there arent a ton of businessmen out there who enjoy losing money, or will hold onto a non revenue generator in their portfolio simply for fun.

by backtocali on Mar 24, 2011 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wish I could attrib...

but I’ve read statements from MA in the past saying “you don’t buy a baseball team to make money.” I think as long as the team can find the break-even point and stay competitive, he’ll be happy to keep it in his portfolio. If his other business ventures all tank and he’s left scrambling for assets, yeah, selling your baseball team would be #1 priority, but it won’t be because of the team.

by mpbMKE on Mar 24, 2011 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm skeptical of all of his public comments

Unless its something definite like “we are getting a new scoreboard,” I think trying to figure out his motivations (good or bad) based on public comments is tough to do.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Mar 24, 2011 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

True

but that’s a pretty realistic perspective. Generally the only guys making money off their teams do it at the expense of the product on the field.

by mpbMKE on Mar 24, 2011 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Mark A can do math

Profit is taxed at a 39% fed rate, close to a 50% rate once state and local taxes are added in. Long-term cap gains are taxed at 15%. So long as his bond trading business is making him money, he has no need to worry about taking money out of the Brewers.

When there is a scuffle in Ireland, there’s no need to specifically mention in the news story that alcohol was involved

by Getting Yosted on Mar 24, 2011 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Then maybe he'll sell the team next year

So he can lock in the 15% cap gains rate before the “Bush tax cuts” expire at the end of 2012 and the rate goes up.

FWIW, I think you’re right in that his likely goal profit-wise is simply the gain in the teams’ value, not pulling short-term operating profits from the team. (He’s not Frank McCourt, thankfully!) It’s the same thing Arte Moreno appears to be doing with the Angels.

Though speaking of expiring tax incentives, I’m still appalled by the way Steinbrenner managed to pass on the Yankees without having to pay any estate taxes.

by Brew Angel on Mar 24, 2011 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think there is also a part of him that simply enjoys owning a baseball team. Honestly, of all the owners in baseball, aren’t the most successful teams the ones with individual owners who take interest in the game? I think Samson and Loria are the exception not the rule.

Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.

by Yar Nivek on Mar 24, 2011 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

profit

he might not look at that line, but the “value of franchise” line. If he can’t keep that one rising (which would be difficult in times of increasing payroll and decreasing wins), then he might sell for sure. Provided he doesn’t think he can turn it around quickly.

by PagsBrewCrew on Mar 24, 2011 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Watching today's game

For those interested in such things, today’s game against the Angels will be on mlb.tv

by Marty McSuperFly on Mar 24, 2011 9:58 AM CDT reply actions  

Neat.

It’s also listed as the MLB.tv free preview on my @Bat app. Hopefully the insane black out rules don’t apply.

by SgtClueLs on Mar 24, 2011 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Rule #1

If you’re a fan of the team, there’s an 93.2% chance it will be blacked out

Too close for missiles, I’m switching to Ueck.

by theBrouhaha on Mar 24, 2011 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Capuano is pitching for the Mets today

Also on mlb.tv

*I have no financial interest in mlb.tv, I’m just eager to watch baseball again

by Marty McSuperFly on Mar 24, 2011 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dammit!

I’ve just been listening to it.

My goodness.

by BrewHaHeather on Mar 24, 2011 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

i tried to

but it said i didn’t have the rights to that…so i’ve been listening (and complaining about listening)

by PagsBrewCrew on Mar 24, 2011 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Read the article and comments at Talking Chop about Liberty selling the Braves once the tax advantages are gone

A depressing story, but the comments are interesting (and filled with bad spelling) because half the people are whining like they’re the pirates and have no payroll, and the other half are telling them to shut up.

Too close for missiles, I’m switching to Ueck.

by theBrouhaha on Mar 24, 2011 10:47 AM CDT reply actions  

The story does mention the fact that the Braves payroll has gone down every year under Liberty.

If Mark A. sold the team to someone who did that, I think I’d complain too.

Now that's great tasting chicken!

by Kyle Lobner on Mar 24, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

It turned out to be a great trade for them

But in 2009 the Braves won 86 games with Javy Vasquez dominating and then traded him because they didn’t want to pay his $11.5M salary the next year.

If I were a Brave fan, I’d be pissed.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Mar 24, 2011 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

welcome to the cable industry

so not surprised that Liberty is cutting payroll. Things in the land of pay TV are going downhill mightily right now.

by morineko on Mar 24, 2011 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

re the Fielder article

So Roenicke’s open door policy actually works? That’s quite telling about the differences between Roenicke and Macha right there.

by morineko on Mar 24, 2011 12:01 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

zing

Too close for missiles, I’m switching to Ueck.

by theBrouhaha on Mar 24, 2011 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's his own damn fault

Werther’s are delicious.

by ecocd on Mar 24, 2011 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Do you also drive a buick?

and have a love of early bird specials?

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by Jeo on Mar 24, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm 30 going on 60

I enjoy curling and betting on horses. I’m the oldest, whitest 30 year old in the Chicagoland area.

by ecocd on Mar 24, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

The new Buick sedans actually don't look too bad to me

Ugh, I’m getting old.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Mar 24, 2011 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

McCalvy twitter
If the #Brewers stay in-house for 5th starter it will be Marco Estrada. I’ll post Roenicke’s comments when I get to Tempe.

by ecocd on Mar 24, 2011 12:29 PM CDT reply actions  

Lar and I have similar hobbies.

I was just looking up Ueck’s filmography two days ago. I couldn’t remember his name on Mr. Belvedere, and that bothered me for some reason.

by mpbMKE on Mar 24, 2011 1:18 PM CDT reply actions  

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Communist_party_small Jordan M

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