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The joke of the Milwaukee Brewers #2 spot

With Tony Plush out for almost a week now, everyone's feeling the awful effects of the Brewers #2 spot.

This wouldn't be a problem if Corey Hart was Corey Hart again, or if Carlos Gomez could somehow not be Carlos Gomez anymore, but neither of those seem to be coming in the near future (especially the Gomez one).

So in the mean time when Plush is out, Hart's still half-injured, and Gomez is still acting in the most Gomezy of ways, what should the Crew do with the #2 spot?

 

Star-divide

Kotsay? gross!

Boggs? I would say maybe, but he still has little to no relative experiece for a position like #2

Yuni? .258 OBP.....good joke!

Jonny Lu? Again maybe..but his speed and just overall bad baserunning wouldn't fit well.

Or what if we just eliminated the #2 spot all together? Just move everyone up one spot, and slide the pitcher into the 8 hole and it could actually work. The lineup would look kinda like this:

1. Weeks

2. Braun

3. Fielder

4. McGehee

5. Yuni

6. Hart/Kotsay

7. Lucroy

8. Pitcher

9. Gomez/Boggs

 

This isn't a completely novel idea, as the Brewers did do it once last year. But to traditionalists, it just looks strange. Things like "Fielder strikes out to much for a #3 hitter" and "pitcher in the #8 spot, who are you, Tony LaRussa?!!" (and we all heard that when Yost tried it) would be said.

And yes it may look like a weird lineup, but would it even really matter? People make too much of a big deal about where everyone bats and when, but after one time through the lineup, it's just the order that matters. And that order wouldn't look a whole lot different than now, with Braun before Fielder, Fielder before McGehee, and so on.

The only real different thing would be Weeks in front of Braun, and how could that hurt anyone. Weeks, as the hitter he is, would definately get some better pitches to hit, and he would almost for surely take advantage of that (unlike some Gomezian characters).

And remember, this would be temporary, nothing permanent. Once Morgan comes back, he slides right in there. Or once Hart gets it going, he'll go right in there.

Hopefully the point I'm trying to make will be moot by Friday night with Corey Hart going 4-5 with three doubles and 4 RBIs or Gomez having somesort of religious experience where he suddenly learns how to play the game of baseball.

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I like the lineup because:

- Prince gets more PA’s over the long haul

- Most Gomez PA’s are worth about the same as some of our pitchers, and in the case that he actually gets on, the top of the order comes up next to capitalize on it

- There are no breaks at the top of the lineup, so pitchers can’t pitch around one guy to get to a weaker one

- Weeks would benefit greatly from having Braun hitting right after him

The only thing I’d change is swapping #5 and #6 when Hart gets on one of his tears and goes all Captain Caveman for a while

by nullacct on May 11, 2011 7:12 PM CDT reply actions  

"Most of Gomez PA's are worth about the same as some of our pitchers"

Oh come on.

Ryan Braun: He loves it. -- Four pitchers in history with 8.5+ WAR and <250 IP seasons: Greg Maddux (age 29), Pedro Martinez (age 28), Roger Clemens (age 27), Zack Greinke (age 25).

by SRB on May 11, 2011 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, I'm quite serious

This year atm only Greinke’s OPS is higher than Gomez. Last year, Gallardo, Narveson, McClendon, and Rogers all had higher OPS.

by nullacct on May 11, 2011 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

McClendon and Rogers also had higher OPS than Prince Fielder and Ryan Braun

(In their 2 PA each.)

Ryan Braun: He loves it. -- Four pitchers in history with 8.5+ WAR and <250 IP seasons: Greg Maddux (age 29), Pedro Martinez (age 28), Roger Clemens (age 27), Zack Greinke (age 25).

by SRB on May 11, 2011 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Yep, small sample sizes.

But the argument still stands that a plate appearance by Gomez isn’t worth much more – if anything – than one by Gallardo or Narveson.

by nullacct on May 12, 2011 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right

But that’s only two of the starters. I could see maybe arguing putting Gallardo and Narveson in the #8 spot when they are starting and putting Gomez in the #8 spot the rest of the time.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on May 12, 2011 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hart

Is this all a moot point now, since it seems like he’s starting to hit like he did last season?

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on May 12, 2011 10:47 AM CDT reply actions  

you sure?

it’s only been about the last 2 games that he’s had a hit or two.

by PagsBrewCrew on May 12, 2011 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I read an ESPN Insider article recently

Where they took the average production at each spot in the lineup 1 through 9, but then switched around the lineup so the best hitters hit first, then second and so on. There new order would have the average clean-up hitter leading off then the third hitter second, 5th third, lead-off 4th and so-on. Assuming production would stay consistent regardless of location in the lineup, the new lineup would be about one win per season better than the one where the best hitters hit 3rd and 4th. The Brewers would probably benefit even more from this because their 2nd hitter is well below average, and 3/4 are above average. A lineup for the Brewers that goes 1. Braun, 2. Fielder, 3. Weeks, 4. Mcgehee, 5. Hart, 6. Lucroy, 7. Gomez, 8. Betancourt, 9. pitcher would probably gain them 1.5 to 2 wins per year, which could be significant. This, however would be very unlikely because it is probably too “radical” or intelligent for a manager to do. The most likely scenario would be keeping Weeks at lead-off and slide everyone else up. It would still be worth close to a win, and wouldn’t be that radical. If only RR and DM understood these things…

by diegop89 on May 14, 2011 1:02 AM CDT reply actions  

Actually, this would be unlikely because this is a huge assumption...
Assuming production would stay consistent regardless of location in the lineup

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on May 15, 2011 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

There is little to show it matters where a player hits in the lineup.

Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.

by cooper82 on May 15, 2011 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

because there's no data

people go to a spot in the lineup and they stay there for most of their careers.

by PagsBrewCrew on May 15, 2011 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right, there isn't much data.

With the players who do get moved around you see numbers all over the place. Some because there are so few PA the numbers are random.

The anecdotal evidence doesn’t really back up protection much either if you think about it. Why would a pitcher pitch Gomez, for example, differently because he is ahead of Braun and Fielder? Pitchers know how to pitch to him to get him out. This protection thing made a lot more sense years ago when there wasn’t the level of scouting and video there is today. The only place where the lack of protection may make some difference is ahead of the pitcher.

Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.

by cooper82 on May 15, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

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