Assorted Thoughts About Yuniesky Betancourt
- Among qualified shortstops, Betancourt is second last in WAR, with -.3 wins so far this season. He’s slightly ahead of Miguel Tejada, who has -.5, and just a bit behind the one and only Alcides Escobar, at -.2. Escobar’s batting line is substantially worse than Betancourt’s .225/.248/.326, but Escobar has been a better than average fielder so far, and Betancourt has been about -1.2 runs compared to average.
- 3.4% of Yuniesky Betancourt’s plate appearances have ended in a walk. Among qualified batters, that’s the worst of all the shortstops, and eighth worse in the league. Of the bottom ten in walks, only one player has a worse OBP than Betancourt’s .248-- that’s Mark Ellis’s .218.
- The last three years, Betancourt has been -11, -17, and -10 runs by UZR, and -13, -19, and -21 runs by Dewan +/-. This season, his UZR prorated out to 150 games is about -10.
- From the start of the 2008 season through this part of the 2011 season, the worst defenders in baseball by UZR have been: Brad Hawpe (-60 runs, RF), Jermaine Dye (-40 runs, RF), Delmon Young (-40 runs, LF), and Yuniesky Betancourt (-39 runs, SS). By Dewan +/-, the worst fielder over that time frame is Betancourt at -54, followed by Hawpe at -37.
- Over the same time frame, the worst qualified batter is Pedro Feliz, with a .284 wOBA. Second is Yuniesky Betancourt, at .287. Jason Kendall is third.
- When we talk about Yuniesky Betancourt, we are talking about a baseball player who has received 550+ plate appearances in the past 3 years, and is among the top 3 candidates for "Worst regularly playing hitter of the past three years" and "Worst regularly playing defensive player of the past 3 years".
- Considering his incredibly bad track record, we are talking about a player who is hitting significantly worse than his career norms while maintaining his horrible defensive performance.
And with that, take it away Adam McCalvy:
Betancourt entered Sunday's game hitting 5-for-37 in May with no walks, giving him a .135 average and a .128 OBP for the month. For the season, Betancourt was batting .225 with a .250 OBP.
"He always has [had a low on-base mark]," Roenicke said. "He's a swinger. He's not going to hit .230. What happens with him is he'll hit .270, .280 and his on-base is going to be [in the] low .300s."
Can't Brewers coaches ask Betancourt to try taking some pitches?
"They have before, and he gets defensive and his at-bats aren't as good," Roenicke said. "That was the problem in Seattle; they approached him that way. Last year [in Kansas City], they didn't and he had a very good offensive year. They let him be himself."
Roenicke preached patience with Betancourt.
"He's a pretty good offensive player," the manager said. "He's gonna hit. Give it some time."
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He's a pretty good offensive player
Based on what, exactly, Ron? Leading the anemic Royals in RBIs one season?
Also, the idea that
they have to be gentle with him so that he doesn’t get butt-hurt and defensive when they try to tell him how to play the game he’s being paid millions for is ridiculous.
by Archibaldcrane on May 17, 2011 4:45 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I think he meant defensive hitting
not becoming defensive about the advice.
At least, that’s how I read it.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
I don't understand this.
He’s ALREADY defensive at the plate; he rarely strikes out in favor of weak pop ups and grounders to second base.
I know Supertramp disagrees with me on this, but I don’t believe that there’s a Badder Yuni who can be unleashed through the power of coaching. It can’t possibly be worse than this.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
I think he can get worse if you try to over-haul midseason
But you’re also right that’s he’s terrible right now – the team can’t keep a guy on their roster with a sub .250 OBP. If you’re the Dale Sveum, what do you tell him to do?
Think the easier answer is to bring try something different personel wise. Risk burning out Counsell by playing him 3 times a week, bring up Maysonet and give him a run, make a trade for another AAA SS.
The team can have all the comments they want about how much potential he has, but he’s not signed after this year – at some point they’ll cut their losses.
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on May 17, 2011 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Oh, I agree that trying to change him now would be an even bigger disaster.
But from the tenor of Roenicke’s comments, it seems like changing Yuni’s approach was something that wasn’t even broached in spring training for fear of loosing Even More Defensive Yuni on the cowering masses. That’s what I’m concerned about.
I am fully in support of the rest of your comment.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
Also:
I’m reccing your comment for the “the Dale Sveum” that you slipped in there.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
The Devil you know
You know as well as everyone else how timid baseball teams are to make changes before the trade deadline. They will drag his bloated carcass to the trade deadline and lose a bidding war with the Giants for the only available SS that doesn’t suck (if there’s even one). Then they’ll continue to carry his negative WAR through the entire season.
Finally, Betancourt will be the worst player in the last 20 years to end up with a World Series ring.
Oh and the change is to tell him to swing at a 2-strike pitch like he swings at a 1-strike pitch. Strikeouts are better than his swinging bunts. I’ll take a 25% K rate Yuni if it means he’ll hit .260.
I could see them cutting bait in another month
Team has recognized sunk costs in the past with Suppan and Hall.
If Counsell is healthy and can go 3 times a week, might as well. Winning baseball games in May is a good thing. If he gets hurt, they should make another move.
I believe Maysonet has the rep of a good defensive SS(I could be wrong on this)I, looks like he knows how to take a walk and could probably put up a sub-.600 OPS with a little better defense than Yuni. Its unfair to say he’d be over Rivera as if he got sent down right away, he would be exposed to waivers and could sign somewhere else ala Luis Cruz.
Get a ife broseph
Suppan and Hall are good examples
I’ve used them myself. The Brewers are one of the best teams at cutting dead weight regardless of the contract situation. I hope you’re right and they give Maysonet a chance sooner rather than later.
I think any sellers in the market know the Giants will be able to offer more than the Brewers so I don’t see anyone making any deals with the Brewers until the Giants have replaced Tejada (presumably with Jose Reyes). Once that’s done, I guess we’ll see what’s left.
I'm thinking Luis Cruz type players
Too lazy to look at each team’s farm system, but I would imagine there are 8-10 SS in the minors right now that could do better than Yuni.
Get a ife broseph
Hainley Statia looks like a younger, better Luis Cruz to me.
Ryan Braun: He loves it. -- Four pitchers in history with 8.5+ WAR and <250 IP seasons: Greg Maddux (age 29), Pedro Martinez (age 28), Roger Clemens (age 27), Zack Greinke (age 25).
They might get one for cash
The Brewers probably briefly explored the trade market for Luis Cruz, found nothing so just DFA’d him — that is the type of player that would help, a minor leaguer who is on the verge of getting released, or is gone as soon as a legit prospect gets promoted in his position and needs playing time.
Yuni is a sub .600 OPS hitter with terrible defense, the bar for what is considered an upgrade is set much lower than I get the feeling you think it is.
Get a ife broseph
I have an idea:
If you’re the Dale Sveum, what do you tell him to do?
Tell him to lean into one.
by BrewCrewBrian on May 18, 2011 8:00 AM CDT up reply actions
that picture of him up there is pretty awesome
"I don't even know who Bryce Harper is — hah, hah, hah, hah, hah!" -Nyjer Morgan
Jordan, normally your posts lift my spirit a little bit
this one just made me angry.
BCB: Pointless Exercises in Devils Advocacy
BCB Fantasy Football League 2 Champ
by Jeo on May 17, 2011 4:58 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
But, But, But
he can flip the ball behind his back to start a double play! And Rock and BA both say his defense has been excellent, and they certainly know more than your fancy statistics!
Oof.
That’s all I got. I knew it was bad but I didn’t know it was this bad. Thanks for illuminating, I guess?
I support the comment
but I don’t really see the point of the post. Is it to point out that he’s truly as terrible as he seems? As the president, secretary and treasury of the Yuni Hater Club, I guess I already knew the guy is a questionable minor league contract signing, let alone a major league starter. Melvin eff’ed this up big time, because there were other guys available in free agency that wouldn’t have been good, but they wouldn’t be historically bad either.
I’ve come to accept that RR isn’t defending Yuni. He simply can’t throw one of his guys under the bus when there are absolutely no day-to-day alternatives. Read the quote closely. The only positive thing he said was the general, “he’s a pretty good offensive player.” Yet in the same interview he specifically points to Gomez as having a .342 OBP. RR knows his stats so he know Betancourt is a worthless pile of dung.
Craig Counsell isn’t a viable alternative right now, because he’s currently the only back up they have for 2nd, 3rd or SS. Roenicke can’t afford to play him, because he might need those creaky legs to take over a 15-day DL stint for one of the position players during a stretch later in the season.
Maysonet is the only player in the entire Brewers system that has major league experience at SS, but given his lack of any power, he might be no better than Betancourt (as bad as Yuni is, even I think he’s underperforming his “skill” level so far). If they felt they needed another backup infielder, Maysonet would’ve been called up over Rivera anyway.
by ecocd on May 17, 2011 5:38 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I’ve come to accept that RR isn’t defending Yuni. He simply can’t throw one of his guys under the bus when there are absolutely no day-to-day alternatives.
Pretty much sums up this shitty situation.
by Archibaldcrane on May 17, 2011 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions
No real point, just some thoughts
I didn’t go in with some claim to prove on this one.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
The only salve
for this wound is the knowledge that Escobar has been terrible at the plate as well. If the only downside to that swap ends up being Yuni’s worse defense, and we get 2 years of Grienke out of it, it doesn’t hurt that badly.
The Greinke trade needs to be viewed in its entireity
Greinke will get up to speed and be a star, but we have to deduct Yuni’s negative contributions to the team compared to a +1.0 to +2.0 Nick Punto, for instance, who was available during the offseason for $750k. The Greinke trade is worth for the Brewers: Grienke WAR + Yuni WAR – free agent SS WAR. Given that Yuni is inevitably headed for a negative WAR season, that could easily take 2.5 WAR away from Greinke’s value. Fortunately for DM, Escobar isn’t worth much either so the Royals haven’t seen any immediate returns at SS.
The Greinke trade is worth Greinke WAR + Yuni WAR - Escobar WAR = Greinke WAR
They weren’t going to sign a free agent to replace Alcides, and Betancout and Escobar look equally horrendous at this point.
Ryan Braun: He loves it. -- Four pitchers in history with 8.5+ WAR and <250 IP seasons: Greg Maddux (age 29), Pedro Martinez (age 28), Roger Clemens (age 27), Zack Greinke (age 25).
You're ignoring the fact that they didn't have to take Betancourt
I’m saying they don’t keep Escobar either and go out to the FA market to fill the slot. The Brewers would’ve come out ahead on the trade had they never picked up Betancourt at all. If the Brewers would’ve had to send cash to the Royals to cover them cutting Yuni from their roster and signed a FA SS they still would’ve been ahead.
I'm sure Kansas City insisted, as they had no use for Betancourt after getting Escobar
It’s still Melvin’s fault that he kept Betancourt and didn’t get a free agent replacement, but I don’t think that should negatively impact the value of the Greinke trade.
Ryan Braun: He loves it. -- Four pitchers in history with 8.5+ WAR and <250 IP seasons: Greg Maddux (age 29), Pedro Martinez (age 28), Roger Clemens (age 27), Zack Greinke (age 25).
by SRB on May 17, 2011 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
The deal doesn't happen without Betancourt, as SRB said.
We would have had to throw in more to just get Greinke. It was convenient for DM to take him because he had no fallback shortstop whatsoever at that point.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
Interesting
Is Yuni at the bottom of the league in hitting (OPS)? Yes. Is he alone: not quite. Running a search on baseball-reference shows that there are 21 guys in the bigs with more than 125 plate appearances and an OPS of less than .580. I’m just saying that offense is pretty brutal this year with all of the rainouts meaning that teams can skip their worst starters as well as hitters suffer more in cold weather. Check out how brutal Mark Ellis is!
The Brewers are 20-21 and they wouldn’t be 36-5 with someone else at short. It’ll all be okay!
by Bertwerst on May 17, 2011 5:54 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Most of those guys are elite defenders who can't hit though, Yuniesky can't do either.
Oh well
:(
Ryan Braun: He loves it. -- Four pitchers in history with 8.5+ WAR and <250 IP seasons: Greg Maddux (age 29), Pedro Martinez (age 28), Roger Clemens (age 27), Zack Greinke (age 25).
Yup, and I did mention Ellis above.
I know it’ll all be okay, but that doesn’t mean I’m just going to sit here and watch for the next 4 months.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
The new lineup's here! The new lineup's here!
Second spot – Hart, Corey! Millions of people long for this lineup every day! This is the kind of spontaneous managing that makes teams! Things are going to start happening to the Brewers now…
We should start a Free Lucroy campaign.
I understand the reasoning behind hitting him 8th. But if he’s not 8th then there is no defense for hitting Betancourt in front of him.
All is vanity.
Lucroy
is hitting 7th tonight :)
Gomez is 8th.
by Archibaldcrane on May 17, 2011 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
Too close for missiles, I’m switching to Ueck.
There's gotta be some corpse
rotting away in AAA somewhere who’s at least replacement level.
All is vanity.
Exactly, and that's the definition of replacement level
If you can’t get replacement level, you’re failing.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
The Brewers have to have the trade pieces to get replacement level
They’re hanging on to Gamel so I guess they’ll have to look at sending a bullpen arm. Parra will be available.
Or any of the pitching prospects in the minors
Not even the top ones. Teams with a AAA SS they don’t have a spot for will take a flier on a pitcher.
Get a ife broseph
Not necessarilly
You should generally be able to find replacement as a minor league free agent. Granted that should have been done before the season started, might be a bit trickier now, but by definition you should be able to access a replacement level player at all times.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
All replacement level players are not equal
Shortstops are in short supply. As much as they try to adjust by position, I think a replacement level shortstop is harder to find than any other position (starting pitcher notwithstanding). There are plenty of teams that don’t have one right now and those that have one are more likely to hang on to them as a result.
They have Maysonet and Statia
they are both replacement level.
I would be vehemently against attempting to trade for a replacement level short stop.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on May 17, 2011 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Wouldn't you want to know what they gave up in a trade before you vehemently went against it?
Get a ife broseph
No
because you’d essentially be trading for something you already have—a replacement level SS.
Unless you’re talking they bring in Jose Reyes—which you and I both know is impossible.
In conclusion—another hyphenated sentence.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on May 17, 2011 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions
That's ridiculous
Taken a step further, you could just eliminate scouts for minor league FAs because they are all replacement level.
As a Brewer fan, you’ve certainly seen how they have picked up certain guys off the minor league scrap heap and turned them into decent, sometimes very good minor leaguers.
You need to choose carefully and get the best available replacement level player on the the team. Maybe its Maysonet, maybe its another guy you can get.
Get a ife broseph
Maysonet and Hainley will be better options than Yuni by July.
fka "warwick5s"
by DEUCE SLUICE on May 17, 2011 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The solution is obvious and simple:
Braun’s natural position is shortstop. He said it. It must be true. Move him to SS, bring up Gamel to play LF (or RF and move Hart over). Your batting order would be:
Weeks
Hart
Braun
Fielder
McGehee
Gamel
Lucroy
Gomez
P
Final regular season record: 120-42
All shall love the Brewers and despair.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 17, 2011 6:57 PM CDT reply actions
Ahhh...
the “Fuck it, Mash Taters” method.
fka "warwick5s"
by DEUCE SLUICE on May 17, 2011 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmmm... have I underestimated the power of Plush?
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 17, 2011 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions
In case you were wondering
FA shortstops (via MLBtraderumors)
Bobby Crosby (31)
Cristian Guzman (33)
Julio Lugo (35)
Josh Wilson (30)
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Guzman
is missing the first half+ of the season due to unspecified “family issues”.
by Archibaldcrane on May 17, 2011 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions
If you're talking about more than one Guzman
Does it become Guzmen?
I’m a fan of RR, but would suggest a different line than “Give Yuni some time.” It’s not like we can pause Prince Fielder’s FA clock while Yuni figures out how to hit .250.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Thinking about Yuni's fielding weakness
Until we get a couple seasons of analysis of FieldFx data under out belts we are using absolutely terrible metrics to try and measure fielding performance. Hitting statistics are using an absolute measure: Regardless of the field, weather, opponent, time of day, etc., you are ultimately measuring a player’s ability to hit a ball thrown through the same rectangle. Pitching statistics are inversely equal, measuring the ability for a pitcher to overcome that hitting performance.
Fielding is not measured anywhere nearly as accurately. There are two major ways that people currently try to evaluate fielders: How many balls they get to, and how well they handle the balls they get to. One is subjective (range factor), the other is absolute (errors). Range factor is determined by the number of outs a shortshop participates in for every 9 innings played. An error is a ball that was within a player’s range to handle – a chance – and was fielded incorrectly, resulting in at least one base for the opposing team that should have been converted into an out.
A mistake on a ball fielded is always more destructive than the theoretical existence of a ball that should have been fielded. If a shortshop fails to field a ball, the result is almost always (it’s hard to picture how anything else could possibly happen) a single to left field. That’s it. But if a shortstop commits an error on a fielded ball, the result could be anything from a batter reaching safely to the ball ending up in the stands (hello Gary Sheffield). But for the purposes of comparison we’ll treat a missed grounder (1.0 RF) the same as a misfielded one (error).
Let’s take a good fielding shortstop and compare him to Yuni right now. Troy Tulowitzki is supposed to be really good. Right now, Troy has a range factor of 5.00 and has committed two errors. Yuni on the other hand has a range factor of 4.18 and has also committed two errors. So comparing these two – what might be close to the best and worst shortstops in the NL – is 0.82 range factor. That means that people theorize that playing Yuni in the field instead of Troy will result in almost a whole extra base achieved by the opposition every game.
An advantage of .82 hits every game is pretty big. Instead of a team hittng .250, they would hit .267 against us. But we’re comparing against a human vaccuum cleaner, right? The league average for shortstop is a range factor of 4.41, not 5.00. The difference there between Yuni and average is .23. That would mean that a team that normally bats .250 would only improve to .255. That’s a 5 point increase in batting average.
If we decide to ignore that errors can be more destructive than unfielded balls that turn into singles into left field and treat them equally, it pretty much means that a range factor of 1.00 is equivalent to one error a game. So if you’ve committed say, 9 errors at shortstop in 36 games played (like St. Louis Ryan Theriot), that’s an increase over Yuni of .194 errors a game, or an equivalent range factor of .19. Ryan’s actual RF is 4.45, so subtracting .19 gives you 4.26, which is still slightly better than Yuni’s. Thankfully, Theriot’s OPS is .688, much better than Yuni’s .574, so he doesn’t need to worry about being close to the worst shortstop in baseball. Yuni does though.
I started writing this trying to dampen the criticism of Yuni somewhat, but the numbers just don’t support it. He’s pretty terrible compared to his peers. His combination of bad hitting and poor fielding makes him rock bottom, and the team should try to replace him in the lineup and in the field.

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