Tuesday's Frosty Mug
by Kyle Lobner on Jun 21, 2011 10:58 AM CDT
in Milwaukee Brewers News
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PrintSome things to read while correctly assigning blame.
There's not a lot of positives for us to discuss today, but I'll lead with something we can all be hopeful for. Cal State Fullerton is looking for a new manager for their baseball team, and Mark Kotsay has expressed interest. Kotsay went 0-for-4 in place of Ryan Braun last night and is now hitting .236/.312/.283 on the season. Even that line is inflated by three intentional walks. Here's hoping he's offered the job and decides to start today.
Kotsay started last night in place of Ryan Braun, who missed his first game of the season while dealing with an upper respiratory viral infection (also known as a cold). Todd Rosiak says Braun should be good to go today.
Meanwhile, we're spending a fair amount of time once again today discussing poor major league umpiring. Home plate umpire Bob Davidson injected himself into the game last night by refusing to award Nyjer Morgan first base on an HBP and then ejecting Dale Sveum and Ron Roenicke for arguing the call. As you might expect, Davidson's Wikipedia page has undergone some renovations since. Tom Haudricourt notes that MLB had a chance to be rid of Davidson in 1999 as part of a failed mass resignation scheme, but dropped the ball and let him back in.
Last night's game also featured a bizarre (and likely not legal) moment in the eighth inning. After a bullpen miscommunication led to the wrong pitcher warming, Rays manager Joe Maddon sent outfielder Sam Fuld (who had pinch hit for the pitcher in the previous inning) to the mound to warm up to pitch. The Rays used the delay to warm up another pitcher, then pulled Fuld before he'd faced a batter. You're only supposed to be able to remove a pitcher like that in case of injury, so the Rays reportedly told the umpires that Fuld was hurt.
Other notes from the field:
- Jonathan Lucroy got the Brewers on the board with his first home run in June last night, and circled the bases in 20.84 seconds.
- While finishing the seventh inning in relief of Chris Narveson, Tim Dillard became the first Brewer pitcher ever to hit a Ray with a pitch. Plunk Everyone has more.
- Here's a transcript of Ron Roenicke's postgame comments.
- Jeff Niemann, Evan Longoria and Justin Ruggiano are leading FanGraphs' Star of the Game voting.
- The Chorizo won the Sausage Race.
- Casey Kotchman went 1-for-5 with a pair of strikeouts last night. Entering the game he was one of just two players with a lifetime batting average over .480 in interleague play.
The two teams meet again tonight: Chris Vannini of MLB.com has the preview. Speaking of previews, I answered some questions about the Brewers for DRaysBay yesterday.
Looking ahead another day: Shaun Marcum pitched a bullpen session yesterday and plans to make his scheduled start tomorrow. Marco Estrada is still likely to start in his place if something changes.
Rickie Weeks had two more hits last night, and is now batting .375/.400/.667 over his last eleven games. Weeks completed a rare sweep yesterday, winning both Brewer of the Week and this week's El Super.
So here's something I wasn't expecting: The Giants, who are in the market for a catcher, have reportedly been informed that George Kottaras is available. Grant from McCovey Chronicles appears to be interested. Kottaras probably wouldn't net a lot in return, but Bay City Ball notes that he won't be eligible for free agency for the first time until after the 2013 season.
Elsewhere in transaction rumors: The Brewers still don't have a lefty in their bullpen, and likely won't until Zach Braddock is eligible to return from AAA. MLB Trade Rumors has a list of lefties that could potentially be available. Meanwhile, Daniel Ray Herrera cleared waivers and has been outrighted to Nashville.
Here's another reminder about the Brewers' struggles to develop pitching: The B-Ref Blog says they've gotten eight positive WAR contributions from pitchers under 25 years old in the last five seasons. That's tied for 24th in all of baseball.
And here's another reminder of the pitfalls of fan voting for the All Star Game. Yuniesky Betancourt, who probably wouldn't even be selected for the All Star Team in AA, is fifth in the NL voting at shortstop. Before last night's game Ron Roenicke gave Betancourt a vote of confidence.
At least Randy Wolf has been pretty good lately: Jack Moore of Disciples of Uecker says his performance to this point has been good, but we should expect something closer to a 4.00 ERA going forward.
Over the weekend we got to see Prince Fielder face off against Adrian Gonzalez, who likely received a contract similar to what the Brewer first baseman will command this offseason. Nate Woelfel of The Brewers Bar compares their numbers and asks if Prince is worth the money.
In the minors:
- The affiliates went 2-1 last night, with Helena picking up a walkoff victory in their first game of the season. Minor League Notes is off today, so you can read more about yesterday's games in the Brewerfan.net Link Report.
- Joey Paciorek hit that walkoff homer for Helena, and it was his second of the game. 2011 draft pick Parker Berberet also hit his first professional homer in the game and, as the picture at this link shows, he's got a mustache.
- Brock Kjeldgaard also homered last night for Brevard County, tying the team record with 18 in a season.
- Eric Arnett allowed one earned run over six innings in Helena's game. The Helena Independent Record has a nice profile of him, and mentions for the first time that he's been rehabbing a torn rotator cuff this spring. (h/t @SessileFielder)
- The AZL Brewers open their season tonight, and will do so with Dominican outfielder Ruben Ozuna in uniform. Ozuna was transferred yesterday after hitting .304/.419/.376 in parts of two seasons for the DSL Brewers.
- Wisconsin was off yesterday as part of the Midwest League All Star Break, and Jimmy Nelson spent most of the day getting a new tattoo.
In draft notes: The Brewers announced the signings of seven draft picks and two undrafted free agents yesterday. A couple of them have been mentioned before, but most were new. Here's the quick breakdown:
| Round | Player | Position | Assignment |
| 6 | Daniel Keller | P | Arizona |
| 19 | Renaldo Jenkins | SS | Arizona |
| 20 | Brandon Williamson | P | Helena |
| 21 | Michael Nemeth | 1B | Helena |
| 25 | Parker Berberet | C | Helena |
| 35 | Douglas Elliot | C | Helena |
| 39 | Elliot Glynn | P | Arizona |
| Und. | Jimmie Pharr | C | Arizona |
| Und | Conner Whalen | P | Arizona |
Green Week continues at Miller Park this week, and John Steinmiller and Caitlin Moyer have a review of three "green" food options at the ballpark. All three entries receive either one or two stars.
In power rankings:
- The New York Daily News has the Brewers at four, down one spot.
- Phil Rogers of the Chicago Tribune has the Brewers fifth, down one spot.
- FanGraphs has the Brewers holding steady at five.
- ESPN has the Brewers at five, up two spots.
- Beyond the Box Score has the Brewers at six.
If you'd like more about the Brewers today but you're sick of reading, we've got two options for you: First of all, Justin Hull of 1570 The Score has the audio from my appearance on his show yesterday. Second, this week's View From Bernie's Chalet Podcast is up. Topics include Randy Wolf, Yuniesky Betancourt and the minor leagues.
If you haven't yet, please take a moment today to vote in this week's BCB Tracking Poll. It'll remain open until tonight and results will be posted tomorrow.
I don't have any transactions for "Around baseball" today. Weird.
By now you're probably well aware of the fact that Albert Pujols is going to miss 4-6 weeks with a broken bone in his forearm (FanShot). You know all about that and much more if you've read this morning's edition of Around The NL Central, which won't dry your skin like soap.
Someone needs to print this off and slip it into Ed Sedar's pocket: Baseball and Not Baseball has the best chart I've ever seen showing when you benefit from sending and holding runners. (h/t Baseball Musings)
Since the Brewers got shut down by Jeff Niemann last night, this seems relevant today: Jeff Zimmerman of FanGraphs has a look at how pitchers typically perform after coming off the DL.
Today in former Brewers:
- Nationals Enquirer has video of Todd Coffey sprinting in a tuxedo.
- The B-Ref Blog notes that there are only eleven players in major league history with 2500 hits, 500 doubles, 100 triples and 200 home runs. The Brewers have two of them: Robin Yount and Paul Molitor.
A fair number of these are going to sound painfully familiar: Royals Review has the definitive list of Stuff That Baseball Broadcasters Like.
Marlins interim manager Jack McKeon has one game under his belt, and he's likely about to get his first fine. He lit a cigar in the Marlins dugout during a rain delay last night. McKeon, by the way, was a manager in the Pioneer League when Bob Uecker made his pro debut in 1956.
Here's another reminder that interleague play is a pretty notable financial success for baseball: This weekend's attendance around the league was the highest since 2008.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're in desperate need of help naming your children.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I must make this.
Drink up.
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if only there was a way we could keep bill and brian from saying those statements...
"Cubs fans boo again – 99% of these people can’t see the plate." -Ueck
Kotsay
I’m waiving the white flag on Kotsay. I’ve been trying to defend him by pointing out his positives, but I’ve given up. After watching him flail twice with RISP, I can no longer justify any value he brings to the team.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Kotsay
Its inexcusable that Melvin and Roenicke think this guy deserves a spot on the roster while Boggs and his 960 OPS crushes AAA pitching. The handling of the bottom of the roster may very well cost us a playoff spot. Between this and hiring Roenicke I think its time to turn the page on the Melvin era.
by bklynbrewcrew on Jun 21, 2011 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Not ready to go after Kotsay yet
Though, he is next in line. He avoids it for now because he is normally a bench player, and there’s a starter that needs to go first. Betancourt needs to go. I’m still really ticked off about his at-bat in the 6th inning last night. Where’s the baseball IQ during that at-bat? Unless that ball is a fastball right down the middle, that’s a pitch to take. It ties the game there if it is a ball (which it was). Now, this next part is all speculation, because we don’t know what would have happened had Betancourt drawn the walk. Lucroy is up next. Maybe he grounds out and ends the inning there. Maybe he gets a base hit that gives the Brewers a 1-2 run lead. Maybe his HR is in the 6th now and it’s a 5-1 game. The Rays could have still made a comeback, but now it’s most likely against Hawkins, Loe, and Axford instead of Dillard, DeFelice, and Hawkins. Taking that pitch changes the game completely. That’s what ticks me off the most.
"You need to add a signature line about your sarcasm detector being broken like a Cubs fan’s spirit."
- molitorfan
Knee jerk reactions aren't the answer.
To release Betancourt solves no issues, just leaves them a man short. Sure, his 6th inning AB was bad, but what about his AB in the 8th? I’m not arguing to keep him here, but we having nothing to replace him with, and no possible trade chances. Kotsay goes before Yuni. I think it’s his last chance in a Brewers uniform. DM can’t have a useless bench player while someone who can fill his position is raking in AAA. It took time but Neives was sent down, right?
by Mr. McGehee on Jun 21, 2011 12:55 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
They need to at least give Counsell and Wilson more playing time.
I just don’t see what Betancourt would provide above either of them now. Maybe some competition for his job would at least motivate him more.
"You need to add a signature line about your sarcasm detector being broken like a Cubs fan’s spirit."
- molitorfan
Also, he did have a good at-bat in the 8th.
However, I’m trying to think if any of his hits have been clutch hits. It seems like his hits come in situations where they don’t matter as much.
"You need to add a signature line about your sarcasm detector being broken like a Cubs fan’s spirit."
- molitorfan
A HR in the 13th inning that tied a game...
Not saying he’s awesome, but he’s had his moments. You live in a fantasy world if you think a Wilson/CC platoon would be better. CC’s batting stats are worse than Kotsay’s this year, and while Wilson has looked ok, he won’t continue hitting for power. Slight upgrade defensively, downgrade on offense. It’s a wash.
by Mr. McGehee on Jun 21, 2011 1:44 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
i disagree
Counsell may not get hits, but he will extend at bats. Even if he doesn’t keep hitting for power, wilson has not looked lost at the plate like yuni and has looked solid on d.
by uwbadgers on Jun 21, 2011 1:49 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yuni approaches the first pitch like he is down 0-2.
Any fleeting success he has is in spite of his approach and is unsustainable, as his entire career has shown.
by Bernie's Mustache Wax on Jun 21, 2011 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
In theory, Counsell is an upgrade on offense and a massive upgrade on defense.
Have you looked at Betancourt’s stats lately?
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
Yeah.
There is no such thing as a downgrade from Yuni’s offense so far this year.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
Sure there is
Counsell has a .210 BA and .312 OBP. I’m not arguing to keep Betancourt not matter what. I do think CC and Wilson should get more playing time, but releasing Yuni would be a mistake given the other options. If a significantly better option emerges, then by all means release him.
by Mr. McGehee on Jun 21, 2011 3:55 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
not to defend yuni
One comes to mind, the homer in the rockies extra inning game. But thats about it, so yes he is useless.
by uwbadgers on Jun 21, 2011 1:46 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Same here
He’s definitely looked lost at the plate the past week or so but I’d like to see him get a couple more weeks of pinch hit appearances before pulling the plug. Like JP I think the problem at short is a much more pressing concern than any of the role players.
I miss Coffey.
And Villy, actually. Good thing we got rid of them for Saito, though!
fka "warwick5s"
Coffey
was a decent reliever for us and I didnt understand why we let him go. For a team going all in we could have kept Coffey and it wouldnt have cost much. Without Braddock and Kintzler we sure have a lot of the same guys; Dillard, Difelice, Mitre etc are all soft tossing guys who struggle mightily against LH.
by bklynbrewcrew on Jun 21, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Melvin had assumed Saito and Braddock to be solid pieces of the bullpen
It’s a gamble that hasn’t paid off. If both of them are healthy and productive at career levels, this bullpen is completely solid. Without either of them, they’re in trouble.
Founder of the BCBCU - Est. 2011
by ecocd on Jun 21, 2011 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He has his strengths and weaknesses
Bullpen construction would fairly qualify as a weakness.
Founder of the BCBCU - Est. 2011
Kotsay debacle aside
He’s got to be one of the best GMs at picking guys off the scrapheap. Edmonds wasn’t a hot commodity in Spring Training last year and he was worth a ton. Was Gabe Gross another? Corey Koskie was productive. He found McGehee, too. Maybe not diamonds in the rough, but at least emeralds.
He’s also one of the best at cutting unproductive players. There are few GMs that would’ve cut Hall and Suppan and I think he deserves a ton of credit. It’s blatantly admitting you made a sizable mistake in the signing and that’s not anything anyone wants to do (and shows how comfortable he is with Mark A as his boss)
He’s been good at locking up his young talent, albeit at market-level prices, for the most part.
He had an impressive streak of not going to arbitration with his players which is generally good for morale.
He’s done quite well at the trade deadline, though I might be weighting CC Sabathia a little too heavily (see what I did there?).
Founder of the BCBCU - Est. 2011
by ecocd on Jun 21, 2011 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hiring a scounting director and trusting him counts for something
Utilizing the prospects to bring back major league talent. Building a team that on paper was projected to win a lot of games.
He’s not perfect and has many flaws, but its somewhat annoying when people fail to acknowledge that he’s not awful.
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Jun 21, 2011 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jack Z drafted one good pitcher in his era
And it wasn’t his choice. But yes, he knew how to pick out guys with good bats.
He did a fantastic job with the farm system
I’d list all the MLB players and guys that the Brewers were able to use to acquire MLB players, but I’m sure you’re aware.
I think the Bruce Seid era will make Brewer fans appreciate Jack Z more than they might already do.
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Jun 21, 2011 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Like I said
He could pick out a bat. Maybe he just got unlucky with pitchers, but there really weren’t a lot of good pitcher picks. He loved the Evan Frederickson types.
Well drafting a pitcher like Gallardo in the 2nd isn't too bad
Braddock, Parra, Jeffress, Odorizzi, Inman helped the MLB team in the recent past.
What do you mean by “Evan Fredrickson types?”
Get a ife broseph
Speaking of Odorizzi
High A-ball for the Royals: 13 starts, 66.1 IP, 12.6 K/9, 2.7 BB/9, 2.71 ERA, 1.161 WHIP
Looks like he needs to get through a few more innings in each start, but his peripherals have all improved over last year despite the jump in class.
Founder of the BCBCU - Est. 2011
Odorizzi was a great pick
I won’t really ever give a director props for drafting a reliever. You could throw at a dartboard and find a few serviceable to good relievers.
As far as I can tell, the only 2 big hits he had with pitchers were Gallardo (not his choice according to reports) and Odorizzi. With 2 other comp picks that year, he chose Evan Frederickson and Seth Lintz. High K, extremely high BB kind of players. Guys with ceilings of being essentially Derrick Turnbow.
Rogers and Jeffress were busts, Inman will never be more than a middle reliever if that, and Braddock is a top quality reliever with off-field issues.
Listen, I’m not trying to say he wasn’t good at at least some parts of drafting, but it’s pretty much impossible to argue that he was good at drafting pitchers. Like I said, maybe it was bad luck, but he was a direct cause of the Doug Davis/Braden Looper crap that went on for 2 years because he missed on so many drafts.
Bruce Seid may be worse.
LOL
Not getting full credit for Yo.
Is Braddock, Jeffress, Rogers not being starters Jack’s fault, or is it a fault in development in the minor league system?
Get a ife broseph
Winner Winner
At least Jack Z was good at finding us bats. Seid so far has been completely overmatched, overreaching just to pick arms and ones with little upside to boot. Other than Thornburg his drafts look like absolute garbage so far.
Its only been a few drafts but it looks like we are picking few guys with high upsides. Seid has also seemingly ignored position players altogether which has left us in a bad position. Jack Z was far from perfect but Seid is downright awful.
by bklynbrewcrew on Jun 21, 2011 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Eh, I think this one has some merit.
Signing a 40-year-old health risk when your bullpen already had another 40-year-old coming off a serious injury is a pretty big gamble, I think.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
Saito still had around 50 IP each of the last 4 years
While obviously the injuries didn’t come out of no where, it was like they signed Mark Prior. I didn’t mind the gamble on an incentive laden deal.
Get a ife broseph
Opportunity cost
It wasn’t necessarily the money so much as the roster spot he took. As DEUCE points out in the parent, because they have Saito taking up a roster spot, they lost the likes of Todd Coffey and Villy.
Founder of the BCBCU - Est. 2011
I was fine letting both of those guys go
If you go back and read the reaction on BCB, most people were as well, though there was some disagreement on Villy:
Coffey non-tender
Saito signed
Get a ife broseph
Me too
Coffey and Villy both are having very good seasons (career bests). I don’t think anyone expected that from either of them.
I think DM had already given up on Villy and was expecting an upgrade with Saito over Coffey.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Thinking about this more - wasn't timing a big issue?
They ditched Coffey and Villy’s salaries, then traded for Marcum and Greinke, then signed Saito when they had an much better idea of what payroll was going to look like.
Wouldn’t it make sense if they got rid of the non-minimum guys (remember they non-tendered Inglett at this time), to get down to as low of a payroll as realistically possible, then targeted pitching on the trade market?
After they got Marcum and Greinke they would have had a much clearer idea of what payroll was going to look like – that’s when they went after Kotsay, Saito, Counsell and inked Weeks to an extension.
Get a ife broseph
Saito didn't really prevent them from keeping either of Coffey or Villanueva
There were still spots left in the bullpen, they just got rid of Coffey/Villanueva because of the cost. Since Saito >>> Coffey/Villanueva, I don’t see how it wasn’t a great signing.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
by SRB on Jun 21, 2011 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Saito
I actually liked the signing a lot at the time. It was a 1 yr deal for 2 mil so not much risk there at all. The problem was not keeping guys like Coffey and Villy around for depth.
by bklynbrewcrew on Jun 21, 2011 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
We had to free up money to offset the contracts of Greinke and Marcum.
You had to figure that we had cheap, good arms available, like Braddock, Stetter, and Kinzler. I give them credit for starting to get away from the days of yesteryear, where they had the most expensive bullpen in the league.
http://www.mlbsoup.com
Signing one of the best relievers in baseball for peanuts is a pretty good gamble though
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
by SRB on Jun 21, 2011 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Kottaras
If the Brewers are making Kottaras available, I hope it’ll be for more than just cash…. but I hope it’s not for Tejada.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Kottaras
I cant wait to see the reaction when we give away Kottaras so we can bring back Nieves.
by bklynbrewcrew on Jun 21, 2011 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
As a young married man
that home wrecker can’t be traded quickly enough! Him and his charming greek features… who does he think he is!?@
by BEARDEDJEFF on Jun 21, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
I think you meant ditto
unless you’re bringing up her.
But yeah, I’m quite happy with our catcher situation and would hate to see Nieves back up without a measurable return for GeoKo. Affeldt and Javier Lopez are both lefty relievers that are intriguing…
@Rawls13 - follow me for mildly witty anecdotes and sport-related quips.
I doubt the Giants give up either of those guys just for Kottaras
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
yeah
at the end of the day, he’s nice but by no means critical. so if he’s part of a deal to address another need, fine.
by Capt Science on Jun 21, 2011 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm assuming that's what Melvin's shopping for if the rumors are true
He can’t think he’ll be getting even a replacement-level shortstop for him. The Brewers have no incentive to give him away so they’ll only be trading him for something of actual value to the team this year.
Founder of the BCBCU - Est. 2011
Jonathan Sanchez would be an OK 7th inning guy
by Noah Jarosh on Jun 21, 2011 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I would put his surplus value at about $2.8 million
And that is being extremely generous.
If youre looking for a bullpen arm in return for him, from the Giants, that probably means someone like Dan Runzler or Guillermo Mota, or if you want that added “veteran” presence, Jeremy Affeldt.
None of these are all that spectacular imo.
Affeldt got an MVP vote as a joke once
so he must be good.
What's Herrera's surplus value?
That’s about what we’d be looking to improve upon.
Founder of the BCBCU - Est. 2011
If they get Mota
They’d better put his locker on the other side of the clubhouse from Fielder’s… and even then he probably shouldn’t be there at the same time.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
McKeon
I get that he’s old, the 1,000 old jokes on twitter proved that, but a cigar in the dugout? Does this guy think he’s Red Auerbach or something?
"...just throw that pill over the plate and I'll make it happen." - Tony Plush
by thefreewheelin76 on Jun 21, 2011 11:43 AM CDT reply actions
He can do whatever he wants
He doesn’t need the job and probably doesn’t care what people think. Heck, he already benched Ramirez.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
yeah, holy crap.
uh, move that to your mota comment. I guess I still replied to the right person :)
http://www.mlbsoup.com
In the Jon and Cait article
That is totally me in the bottom right hand corner of the picture showing Big B’s diner. By the ice cream stand, of course.
I can't wait for the first pitch tonight so that I can complain about how terrible this team is.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Jun 21, 2011 12:36 PM CDT reply actions
How can you not tell?
I challenge you to go through game threads and find a spot where I say “this team is terrible”.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Jun 21, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
cymbal crash
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Jun 21, 2011 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Question for Kyle here (or maybe anyone who knows the answer)
What’s the extent of the non-criticizing of umpires rules? Obviously, players, managers, coaches, office personnel can’t do it. However, how far out does it extend? Can certain members of the media get punished by MLB for making critical comments about officials? I doubt it would extend out this far, but could SB Nation get in trouble if you were to make a comment that was too critical? (Just to clarify, I’m not accusing you of anything with that article you wrote last night about Davidson, I thought it was a fair piece. I’m just wondering exactly how far MLB rules of not criticizing officials goes down.)
"You need to add a signature line about your sarcasm detector being broken like a Cubs fan’s spirit."
- molitorfan
I think it will be kind of like the Godfather
Kyle is going to wake up with a horse’s arse in his bed
Where are the trolls when you actually want them?
Joe West? Ew...
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
by SRB on Jun 21, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
MLB has authority over anyone they employ
Everyone else can be as critical as they want.
Get a ife broseph
We're not affiliated with the MLB, the only way they could "punish" blogs would be if there is clear slander/libel, and if they cared enough to stop it.
Otherwise they would be attempting to thwart free speech. Same with newspapers, beat reporters, etc., though their bosses might take issue with something way over the top.
by Noah Jarosh on Jun 21, 2011 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok, so punishment could not extend out here.
I’m starting to see where the line is, but there are a few that I don’t know about. Would any of the following media be subject to MLB’s rules?
Adam McCalvy – MLB.com Brewers beat writer
Bob Uecker & Cory Provus – Brewers radio announcers
Brian Anderson & Bill Schroeder – Brewers TV announcers
"You need to add a signature line about your sarcasm detector being broken like a Cubs fan’s spirit."
- molitorfan
McCalvy probably yes. Uecker / Provus are employees of the Brewers radio network, which is probably a separate entity. Anderson and Schroeder are employees of Fox Sports WI so no.
fka "warwick5s"
by DEUCE SLUICE on Jun 21, 2011 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Right on McCalvy
The Radio and TV guys are employed by the media companies but must be approved by the Brewers. They could run the risk of not being approved by the club if they went too far.
Get a ife broseph
Very belated FYI on McCalvy
His stuff is written without oversight of MLB and the Brewers, so I’m pretty sure he’s allowed to criticize umps. If he made more than a passing reference (i.e. a tweet or two), though, he would probably be reprimanded – not because he’d be criticizing MLB employees, but because he’d be violating their general standards of journalistic objectivity. Haudricourt doesn’t seem to be as bound to those standards – he’s paid to opinionate in his blog in addition to his reporting.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jun 21, 2011 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Rocking the boat
I think employees like the ones you mentioned would quickly dissapear if they became obsessed about a topic like if it started becoming a crusade against a particular umpire. There is a way to get an ump booted out of baseball, but it’s not their job. I don’t know how to do it in today’s climate, but it’s definitely not through mainstream channels. There was a time when players could say plenty after a called third strike. Now if they look the wrong way, they get booted. It’s a climate of terror with umpires having all the power.
McCalvey is the first to admit thast writing for MLB.com is not like being a fan. He can’t say what he wants…not by a long shot.
If Jack Cust is in left field, think triple.
by Rob Deer For President on Jun 21, 2011 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Did you watch the game on FSN last night?
While not calling Davidson “horrible”, he did question the call multiple times and even stated that maybe the guy who won the “player for a day” prize could explain the call.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Given the UK's strict Libel laws
I guess we should be thankful for the Revolution. 235 years ago our ancestors fought a war so that in the future we would have the right to criticize umpires!
If the media criticizes too harshly, they'll find themselves on the outside looking in
It’s not necessarily a matter of MLB being able to fire someone, but they could make sure that journalist doesn’t get access to the teams. A journalist without access is going to find him/herself standing in the unemployment line. MLB could even go as far as revoking press credentials, entirely, but it would have to be along the lines of slander to go that far.
The same pretty much applies to blogs. If Kyle were to constantly blast MLB or a part of MLB, it’s not likely the Brewers would extend another press credential to him as they did last year.
Founder of the BCBCU - Est. 2011
Remind me to never get the chili at Miller Park again.
Despite the best efforts of management, Bernie Brewer’s brother, Billy Brewer, is constantly taking off his pants and sliding into vats of chili after every home run …
"You need to add a signature line about your sarcasm detector being broken like a Cubs fan’s spirit."
- molitorfan
Regarding Fuld
I didn’t feel like the Rays violated any rules. I know Roenicke has sent a pitcher out to warm up for an inning, then removed him after a batter was announced. Was it because Fuld technically hadn’t faced anyone yet that the “rules violation” came into play? I think in the situation where Ron Roenicke did that, it involved pulling a reliever who had pitched to at least one batter in the inning before.
"You need to add a signature line about your sarcasm detector being broken like a Cubs fan’s spirit."
- molitorfan
That's precisely the issue.
The rules say if you’re inserted as the pitcher, you have to face at least one batter, unless injury forces you from the game.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
Exactly
Davidson had no problem not enforcing that rule, but somehow thought that Morgan leaned into the pitch.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
I think Davidson was right in the Fuld
Basically, if the team says a guy is injured or incapable of pitching to a batter and the ump says, “you’re fine, stop cheating” and the guy blows out his elbow throwing to the one guy then the ump takes too much heat. It’s a balance of applying the letter of the rulebook and recognizing that the impact of erring on the side of caution is really not very large.
Founder of the BCBCU - Est. 2011
So, what's the point of having the rule at all?
It was pretty obvious what the real situation was.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Davidson really isn't in a spot where he can enforce the rule.
However, MLB now is.
http://www.mlbsoup.com
How does MLB now enforce the rule? The game is over.
Mandatory DL trip for Fuld to prove he’s injured?
"...just throw that pill over the plate and I'll make it happen." - Tony Plush
by thefreewheelin76 on Jun 21, 2011 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess
I don’t remember any instance of managers getting fined for anything an umpire allowed.
"...just throw that pill over the plate and I'll make it happen." - Tony Plush
by thefreewheelin76 on Jun 21, 2011 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't recall a situation like this ever happening.
Maybe it will be a precedent-setter.
http://www.mlbsoup.com
Jose Offerman...please take shape and form of Yuni Betancourt..
climb into a time machine and go back to last night and make Yuni bat where Morgan was…SS problem solved..
If Jack Cust is in left field, think triple.
by Rob Deer For President on Jun 21, 2011 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
As long as we're dreaming,
how about Robin Yount circa 1982 taking the shape and form of Yuni. Then we don’t even need to punch umpires.
Actually...
According to the MLB rules, the umpire is the only one who can enforce this rule…
Rule 3.05© Comment: If a manager attempts to remove a pitcher in violation of Rule 3.05 © the
umpire shall notify the manager of the offending club that it cannot be done. If, by chance, the
umpire-in-chief has, through oversight, announced the incoming improper pitcher, he should still correct
the situation before the improper pitcher pitches. Once the improper pitcher delivers a pitch he becomes
the proper pitcher.
In other words, once the next reliever pitches, there is no longer a violation.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
you're missing the point though. I'm saying MLB can still fine the team, if they've essentially admitted that they lied.
The umps hands are tied there, as ecocd said. He has to believe them when they say a player is hurt.
From Crew Chief, Jerry Layne:
“Fuld went out there, and from what I understand, [home-plate umpire Bob Davidson] was told that he was sore or couldn’t pitch or something,” Layne said. “He’s supposed to pitch to a batter unless he’s incapacitated, but we’re not doctors.”
Layne said he was unsure whether Maddon, Fuld or someone else had passed along the story about soreness.
“It’s a situation where, if they do something like that, they’re circumventing the rules, but as an umpire, there’s nothing we can do about it,” Layne said. "If that’s what we’re told — he’s hurt, or whatever — we’re not doctors. Can you imagine if we had a guy who stayed out there because we said, ‘No, you have to pitch to one batter,’ and then he throws out a rotator cuff?
http://www.mlbsoup.com
I don't think they can't fine them.
Read the last sentence of the rules… once the illegal pitcher throws a pitch, he no longer is considered “illegal”. The rule has to be enforced at the time of the infraction… otherwise, there’s no penalty.
Maddon has already admitted that Fuld was not hurt. In fact, Maddon is on record for saying that he has no idea where Layne and Davidson got the idea that Fuld was hurt.
Everyone knew what they were up to… including MLB’s Executive VP of Baseball Operations (Joe Torre).
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Let's try this lineup again
Hopefully with a healthy Braun.
Weeks 2B
Morgan CF
Braun LF
Fielder 1B
McGehee 3B
Hart RF
Betancourt SS
Lucroy C
Greinke P
TH mentioned on the JSOnline Brewers blog yesterday that the respiratory infection Braun is dealing with has been going around the clubhouse. Maybe that’s contributing to some problems lately? Of course, the bullpen may just be dealing with the problem of needing a day off. Greinke, it would be nice to see a CG today and give the bullpen an early day off.
"You need to add a signature line about your sarcasm detector being broken like a Cubs fan’s spirit."
- molitorfan
Exact quote
Roenicke said the illness has apparently been going around.
“It’s the same thing that’s been going through our clubhouse for awhile now,” he said. “Most of the guys, they carry it for about a week and then it goes away.”
I guess I should also include a link.
"You need to add a signature line about your sarcasm detector being broken like a Cubs fan’s spirit."
- molitorfan
8 innings is fine
Axford hasn’t seen a lot of work lately, unfortunately.
Founder of the BCBCU - Est. 2011
So I was just looking over all-star voting
Andrew McCutchen isn’t even in the top 15 of fan voting for the outfield. That’s utterly ludicrous.
He plays for the Pirates
Enough said.
He’ll likely be named to the team as a reserve… they still have to have one player from each team, right?
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
A little off topic, but I'm going to be talking about the all-star game on the student radio soon
I’m filling out who I think should be on the teams and I had a player from almost every team purely on the offensive positions. And I wasn’t trying to do that, either—I was going to go back and try to work in any teams I’d been missing. The only NL team I didn’t have an every-day player for was the Giants, I think, and they were obviously going to get a pitcher in somehow.
I thing a bigger violation is that YunE-6 is #5
Lets be serious, if you want to be a homer, write in Counsell.
by BrewCrewBrian on Jun 21, 2011 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
That's too much work
I mean, I must have a pencil with me, then I have to write thirteen letters on the ballot. If I don’t have a pencil, I have to go to the gift shop to buy one. It’s just so much easier to punch out that little hole on the ballot.
"You need to add a signature line about your sarcasm detector being broken like a Cubs fan’s spirit."
- molitorfan
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Cincinnati
|
26 | 20 | .565 | 0 | Won 1 |
|
St. Louis
|
25 | 22 | .531 | 1.5 | Lost 3 |
|
Houston
|
22 | 24 | .478 | 4 | Lost 1 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
22 | 24 | .478 | 4 | Won 2 |
|
Milwaukee
|
19 | 27 | .413 | 7 | Lost 1 |
|
Chicago
|
15 | 31 | .326 | 11 | Lost 11 |
(updated 5.27.2012 at 12:11 PM CDT)
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