Brewers take Jungmann, Bradley with first round picks in 2011 MLB Draft
by BrewHaHeather on Jun 6, 2011 10:05 PM CDT
in Milwaukee Brewers News
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PrintIt looks like the Brewers are going to have a super awesome rotation on three or four years and they reloaded their farm system with two college pitchers in the first round of the 2011 draft.
With their first pick the Crew took Texas RHP Taylor Jungmann. The 6'6" Jungmanm weighs in at 220 lbs. Jungmann has put together great numbers over his college career, starting when he was a freshman when he won 11 games and pitched a complete game 5-hitter. He was already the ace of the Longhorn's staff as a sophomore, and this season went 13-1 with a 1.40 ERA (3.63 FIP). Jungmann generally throws in the lower 90's, toping out at 98, with plus movement on his fastball. He also features a hard 11-5 curveball. His changeup right now is a work in progress and rated as average. His mechanics are also pretty solid, but he needs to work on is control.
Pre-Draft Rankings:
Baseball America: 8
MLB.com: 7
With their second pick, the Crew took Georgia Tech lefty Jed Bradley at number 15, and some think that was a steal. He's about the same size at Jungmann, at 6'4", 224 lbs., but his results were a bit different. This season Bradley went 7-3 for the Yellow Jackets with a 3.49 ERA (2.96 FIP). He struck out over a batter per inning, but walked almost 3/9inn. He's been a solid pitcher for Tech, but really shined in the Cape Cod League, where he was rated the League's number four prospect, tying for the league lead in strikeouts. He's not overpowering, but according to Baseball America, "he knows how to miss bats." His fastball is anywhere from 88-94, occasionally touching 95. He has a low 80's slider which is considered a plus pitch for him.
Pre-Draft Rankings:
Baseball America: 14
MLB.com: 8
I'm not a scout, but I'm pretty happy with this draft. Both Jungmann and Bradley have a pretty solid repertoire and a pretty solid history (unlike Arnett (still bitter about that pick)). What I like most is that they are both fairly polished pitchers, who could move fast; particularly Bradley. There probably isn't a Zack Greinke in this duo, but they're both good pitchers that could help the major league team in the near future.
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Larry Greene taken in the supplemental by Philadelphia
Why is he the only player at the draft?
Ryan Braun: He loves it. -- Four pitchers in history with 8.5+ WAR and <250 IP seasons: Greg Maddux (age 29), Pedro Martinez (age 28), Roger Clemens (age 27), Zack Greinke (age 25).
Jungmann and Bradley
Jungmann has a big body and a plus fastball with good sink, sits at 91-93 mph with it. His slider is sharp and his changeup projects as an average pitch. He commands his pitches well. With one plus pitch, one average pitch and one pitch he needs to work on he projects as a middle of the rotation starter. There is some effort in his delivery and a couple of finer things to improve upon. Its a safe, yet solid pick.
Bradley is big bodied as well, but comes from the left side. His fastball is average sitting at 88-93 mph and has a low 80s slider. He has a changeup with fade as well. The main knock on him so far has been his inconsistency, alternating between domination and lackluster. If he gets his changeup in order, and some consistency he could be as high as a #2 starter, but probably sits more in the #3 range.
Both pitchers have strong makeup and good work ethics. Both shold probably sign easily as well.
My guess is that Seid and his staff and overlords went the overly safe route this year having been burned on the performance of Arnett, the makeup of Lawrie and Jeffress, and the unavoidable misfortune of Covey last year.
There were definitely better players available for both picks such as Sonny Gray, Matt Barnes and Blake Swihart. They are safe picks for a team that needs to start rebuilding its farm system. Nothing really spectacular about either pick, but no glaring problems either.
Swihart might be better but he's an extremely difficult sign.
I don’t think Gray or Barnes are definitely better than Jungmann or J. Bradley, based on everything I’ve read they can easily have higher floors and ceilings. “Safe” makes it sound like they reached for lesser players. I would argue they took the best player available (factoring in signability) in both spots, which is great.
Ryan Braun: He loves it. -- Four pitchers in history with 8.5+ WAR and <250 IP seasons: Greg Maddux (age 29), Pedro Martinez (age 28), Roger Clemens (age 27), Zack Greinke (age 25).
by SRB on Jun 6, 2011 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Definitely high floors
But ceilings are what win championships. Granted you want the high floor, what I would consider here, safe picks. They wont go wrong, but as I have contended for a long time, if you knew what you were doing as an organization, you could develop these high ceiling guys and have the much bigger outcome. Gray and Barnes both project as top of the rotations starting pichers, the two Brewer picks are projected as middle of the rotation starters.
As for Swihart, if you dont pony up the money to sign players like this, they will continually get away from you. This will be the third time in 5 years that the Red Sox have drafted a player I felt was good for the Brewers (Daniel Bard and Casey Kelly the other two) and they wound up paying for those players, and probably will with Swihart as well, and look at the differences between the 2 teams outcomes with the picks. And its not about economics and market size. The cost of a player signing bonus is slightly less than that of a major league relief pitchers salary, and the Brewers throw that kind of money around all the time with unspectacular results.
I'm sure you would have been thrilled with the Brewers taking a middle reliever in the first round (Bard)
I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful
I think Jungmann and Bradley have a better chance of being top of the rotation starters than Gray or Barnes.
These are elite pitchers who could have gone in the top 5 picks. I really don’t understand the negative reaction; did people expect Stephen Strasburg? I think most talent evaluators would rather have Jungmann or Bradley over Swihart as well, though I can see the argument for the latter.
Ryan Braun: He loves it. -- Four pitchers in history with 8.5+ WAR and <250 IP seasons: Greg Maddux (age 29), Pedro Martinez (age 28), Roger Clemens (age 27), Zack Greinke (age 25).
by SRB on Jun 6, 2011 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Classification
Marcum and Gallardo are probably 2nd or 3rd starters using the scouting scale (or lower). There are probably 10-12 #1 starters in all of baseball right now
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Jun 6, 2011 10:45 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Well at least now I don't have to lose any sleep wondering what Giants fans think of the Brewers first round.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 6, 2011 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Giants fans suck
They’re either bandwagon championship fans or Bonds apologists – there’s no in between with them.
To be fair
Bonds would have probably been the best player in history either way. Just not by as wide of a gap without the “help.”
If I didn't know better, I'd think the Brewers were a halfway decent baseball team...
I was poking around with stats
extrapolating Braun out for the season. Braun could reach a 30/30/100/100 season, which only 13 players have done (straight projection actually puts him at or above 35/35/110/110). No player has done it more than twice, ….except Bonds.
Bonds went 30/30/100/100 5 times. All of them were pre-’97 (before steroids). So sick.
by Archibaldcrane on Jun 7, 2011 1:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Five tools
Your post gave me an idea for something that would be interesting; combining different seasons, which players have displayed the best range as five tool players (based on AVG/HR/SB/TotalZone for the sake of simplicity).
Combining Bonds’s best seasons would give you a .370 AVG/73 HR/52 SB/+37.0 TZ player. Ridiculous!
Ryan Braun: He loves it. -- Four pitchers in history with 8.5+ WAR and <250 IP seasons: Greg Maddux (age 29), Pedro Martinez (age 28), Roger Clemens (age 27), Zack Greinke (age 25).
by SRB on Jun 7, 2011 2:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Some others
Hank Aaron – .355 AVG/47 HR/31 SB/24.0 TZ
Willie Mays – .347 AVG/52 HR/40 SB/21.0 TZ
Alex Rodriguez – .358 AVG/57 HR/46 SB/16.0 TZ
Ken Griffey Jr. – .327 AVG/56 HR/24 SB/32.0 TZ
There aren’t that many true five-tool players.
Ryan Braun: He loves it. -- Four pitchers in history with 8.5+ WAR and <250 IP seasons: Greg Maddux (age 29), Pedro Martinez (age 28), Roger Clemens (age 27), Zack Greinke (age 25).
by SRB on Jun 7, 2011 2:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Stephen Hawking
is a better runner than Vlad
If I didn't know better, I'd think the Brewers were a halfway decent baseball team...
It's a scratch going downhill
If I didn't know better, I'd think the Brewers were a halfway decent baseball team...
Bonds pre-steroids
Would be .336 AVG/46 HR/52 SB/+37.0 TZ. Still nasty.
by Archibaldcrane on Jun 7, 2011 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Strongly Disagree.
Basically, you have to throw out everything he did after age 34. That means he ends with a lifetime average of .288 (not .298) and he never reaches 500 HRs. Everything after age 34 – his natural decline – is artificially enhanced. He’s a huge fraud and a stain on the game.
by nullacct on Jun 7, 2011 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
All of sports are artificially enhanced these days
It’s just a matter of what is taboo (steroids) and what is not (Bartolo Colon’s stem cells, cortizone shots, whatever)
Ryan Braun: He loves it. -- Four pitchers in history with 8.5+ WAR and <250 IP seasons: Greg Maddux (age 29), Pedro Martinez (age 28), Roger Clemens (age 27), Zack Greinke (age 25).
by SRB on Jun 7, 2011 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't accept excuses
He knew what he was doing was illegal and had consequences. The consequences include that any sane person would disqualify the second half of his career.
by nullacct on Jun 7, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Except MLB implicity tolerated steroids and didn't start testing until 2004
It’s a debate that’s never going to go away, but I don’t understand why people are so vindictive against Bonds.
Ryan Braun: He loves it. -- Four pitchers in history with 8.5+ WAR and <250 IP seasons: Greg Maddux (age 29), Pedro Martinez (age 28), Roger Clemens (age 27), Zack Greinke (age 25).
by SRB on Jun 7, 2011 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions
If I remember correctly
Hank Aaron’s biggest HR years came during what you would call “his natural decline”. Bonds was going to get bigger and slower as he aged, steroids or no. He wouldn’t have hit 73 or 700+, but acting like a guy with 5 30/30/100/100 seasons was going to fall apart at 35 is pretty silly.
I mean, c’mon. He had 3 40+ homer seasons, including a 47 HR year, when he was still a skinny waif.
by Archibaldcrane on Jun 7, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
So he's only a 3 MVP player then?
Damn.
And taking away his steroid years, he’s …oh wait he’s still the only 350/350 player in MLB history.
by Archibaldcrane on Jun 7, 2011 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd agree with this take
Overall with what was on the board, I’m OK with the picks they made
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Jun 6, 2011 10:40 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Both profile as #3's?
Yes, two more Marcums!!!!!!!
by The Left Button on Jun 6, 2011 10:56 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I know, because his makeup has hurt his development so deeply.
And his trade value – we got such a terrible pitcher for him. I mean, he’s not even a #1™.
(#1™ is a registered trademark of Backtocali Enterprises LLC.)
by Cheeseandcorn on Jun 7, 2011 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jungmann really is a great pick
Last year he was in the picture as the potential #1 overall pick this season, and he responded by having arguably the best season from any college starter in 2011. He has a high floor, yes, but he’s not a boring back-of-the-rotation pick like some people are making him out to be.
Jed Bradley is great value too. Depending on who you ask, he has the best stuff of any LHP in the draft.
Ryan Braun: He loves it. -- Four pitchers in history with 8.5+ WAR and <250 IP seasons: Greg Maddux (age 29), Pedro Martinez (age 28), Roger Clemens (age 27), Zack Greinke (age 25).
Do players have to enter the draft or are they picked and then they decide if they want to go.
I understand they can decline and go back to school but I was just wondering how they can be drafted and decline and go to College if they want, how does that not void their NCAA eligiblity like it does in the NFL?
Streak Breakers.com
I don't think they've signed any agents yet.
I thought that signing to an agent was the point where you were officially deemed uneligible for amateur play.
My understanding
Players are usually “advised” by an agent, not signed, so they have representation but also have option to go back to school. Different from basketball or football that way.
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Jun 6, 2011 10:42 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Random quotes
2010:
Is Anthony Rendon (Rice) the favorite to be the 1st pick in the 2011 draft? How far is Gerrit Cole (UCLA) behind him?
Jim Callis (2:01 PM) Rendon is the favorite, with Cole right behind him and Taylor Jungmann (Texas) pushing his way into the discussion.
Simon (Toronto): Lightning round: Jungmann or Geritt Cole?
Jim Callis: Jungmann.
Callis said of Jungmann, Purke and Cole: “All those guys, in certain drafts, would be in the mix for No. 1 overall.”
May 2011:
Jason (Austin): Can you give some reasons as to why Taylor Jungmann is rated 13th? I have seen him pitch for 3 years and I would take Jungmann in a game playoff over any of the pitchers ahead of him! As a Freshman in the CWS vs an extremely talented LSU lineup he just dominated them!
Jim Callis: Because this draft is ridiculous. I don’t disagree with you—Jungmann is 6-0 in postseason play and I saw that start against LSU in Omaha. This draft is just so loaded that our Top 50 was going to have someone at No. 13 and 14 (it turned out to be Jungmann and Barnes) who would have had a chance to go No. 4 in the 2010 draft.
June 2011:
Ed (San Diego): If you were picking in the 8-12 range would you rather have Jungmann, Gray or Barnes?
Jim Callis: It’s a tossup, but I’d take Jungmann.
Al (Fairfax, VA): How would you rank these college arms: Barnes-Jungmann-Bradley-Meyer-Gray?
Jim Callis: That is tough. Jungmann, Bradley, Gray, Barnes, Meyer.
Allan Simpson, Perfect Game USA:
Jungmann has a very high ceiling, though, when combining his physical projection and competitive approach, along with a solid three-pitch mix that includes a 12-to-6 shaped curve with explosive downward action and an occasional changeup. If anything, he’s viewed as one of the more complete college pitchers in this year’s draft. He should also develop into a significant innings-eater at the big-league level.
etc. etc. etc.
Ryan Braun: He loves it. -- Four pitchers in history with 8.5+ WAR and <250 IP seasons: Greg Maddux (age 29), Pedro Martinez (age 28), Roger Clemens (age 27), Zack Greinke (age 25).
by SRB on Jun 6, 2011 10:52 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Why do I have to defend Jungmann to people?
This is probably the Brewers best draft pick since Ryan Braun, or earlier (depending on your opinion of Braun at the time).
Ryan Braun: He loves it. -- Four pitchers in history with 8.5+ WAR and <250 IP seasons: Greg Maddux (age 29), Pedro Martinez (age 28), Roger Clemens (age 27), Zack Greinke (age 25).
Would love for you to be right, my friend
Realize I’m irrational, but a little burnt out on the college pitchers the last couple years and hesitant to get too excited until he starts pitching in the system.
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Jun 6, 2011 11:02 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
We haven't taken a college pitcher this good (or as good as Jed Bradley, for that matter) since Ben Sheets though.
Arnett had a good couple months leading up to the draft but was terrible prior to that. Jungmann’s college line is 342.0 IP, 1.80 ERA, 0.974 WHIP, 6.0 H/9, 2.7 BB/9, 9.2 K/9.
Ryan Braun: He loves it. -- Four pitchers in history with 8.5+ WAR and <250 IP seasons: Greg Maddux (age 29), Pedro Martinez (age 28), Roger Clemens (age 27), Zack Greinke (age 25).
by SRB on Jun 6, 2011 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I understand that feeling.
But the difference between Arnett and Jungmann/Bradley is that they have a history of success. Arnett had one good season and preceded by two mediocre ones.
My goodness.
by BrewHaHeather on Jun 7, 2011 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions
So, based on that, he'll have a good one next year? ...
I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful
I wasn't mocking you here, for the record. Just realized it could come across that way
I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful
Yeah, I know
I’m definitely being irrational. Once they get off to good starts in the lower levels I’ll feel a lot better.
Get a ife broseph
I don't think you do
But BtC is always about 3 notches below the excitement level everyone else feels, and tends to have a bit of a sour outlook on Brewers picks/prospects.
I’m excited, I think most people are.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Jun 6, 2011 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions
True
The reception among Brewers fans elsewhere around the internet seems more lukewarm/disappointed though, and I don’t know why. Jungmann/Bradley are really exciting pitchers. I think some people hear “#3 ceiling” from a scouting perspective and get turned off when they shouldn’t. Jungmann is much closer to developing into a truly elite pitcher than a raw high school arm with nice velocity, who might technically having a higher “ceiling.”
Ryan Braun: He loves it. -- Four pitchers in history with 8.5+ WAR and <250 IP seasons: Greg Maddux (age 29), Pedro Martinez (age 28), Roger Clemens (age 27), Zack Greinke (age 25).
by SRB on Jun 7, 2011 2:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Are you kidding?
He’s clearly awful. Only 1 plus pitch and a mediocre 1.04 WHIP and a 4+ K/BB. #3 starter tops.
Knowing very little about young players...
Jungmann’s scouting according to those quotes sounds like a Ben Sheets… Mid 90’s hard fastball with a killer break on a 12-6 curve. Granted I am sure that’s like 90% of pitchers in the upper levels of the draft but I’ll just dream for now that we got 2004 Ben Sheets reincarnate.
Streak Breakers.com
This
And it’s not like Jungmann has done anything this year to make anyone change those 2010 opinions. Whoever was doing the pick-by-pick analysis on ESPN (Keith Law or possibly someone else) said that Jungmann’s current velocity is effortless and with a minor mechanical change (longer stride), he could probably add 2-3 mph on the fastball. That would be putting him in elite category and would definitely make him a #2 in the majors. That’s just as much upside as anyone the Brewers could’ve picked with a very high floor as the worst outcome. This seems like an outstanding pick.
No, keep shoulder hand away from them.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Jun 6, 2011 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I knew you were being sarcastic
I just wanted to reference shoulder hand.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Jun 7, 2011 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I miss Mike Maddux
If I didn't know better, I'd think the Brewers were a halfway decent baseball team...
by Tepo6688 on Jun 7, 2011 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'm loving the Jungmann pick
I’m not as high on Bradley as some, but he still seems like a darn good pick as well.
I'd feel better about Jungmann
if he didn’t love to pitch at the Y-M-C-A.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Jun 7, 2011 6:59 AM CDT reply actions 7 recs
Yeah, it is. Ueck and Provus were talking about it last night.
A silent J, like, uh, jogging.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jun 7, 2011 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
yup. About as German sounding as you can get, without adding an sch to it.
http://www.mlbsoup.com
by tcyoung on Jun 7, 2011 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not true
He would have to be Schneider Jungmann to be as German-sounding as you can get.
My goodness.
by BrewHaHeather on Jun 7, 2011 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd love to watch Schneider Jungmann throw a no-hitler
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
by Yar Nivek on Jun 7, 2011 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dieter Jūngmann
Ryan Braun: He loves it. -- Four pitchers in history with 8.5+ WAR and <250 IP seasons: Greg Maddux (age 29), Pedro Martinez (age 28), Roger Clemens (age 27), Zack Greinke (age 25).
by SRB on Jun 7, 2011 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Noon eastern
So said ESPN.
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
So, it's already started.
5 or so picks already.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
Brewers take HS RHP Jorge Lopez
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
He's too fat.
He can’t play defense. He’ll be injury prone. He won’t stick in the majors.
Let’s see how much they like hearing it.
From what I could tell - 6'4" 175, seem pretty projectable
Fastball velocity will hopefully improve as he grows into his frame. Good curve and has shown a decent chageup.
Just turned 18 in February.
Get a ife broseph
I think so
Because you get him for 3 extra years, and you save on the money it would cost to acquire him as an FA.
What is his asking price anyway? As long as its not an MLB contract I think its worth it.
I'm not sure his price, Law said teams were extremely skeptical he would sign
I guess I don’t see why paying a guy a top bonus in the draft is a steal, always think of a “steal” as getting a guy later in the draft for less money.
Get a ife broseph
Pardon my ignorance of draft rules, but...
What are the rules for compensation picks for unsigned players? Do they only apply to first rounders who don’t sign? (i.e. Will the Pirates get an extra 2nd-round pick next year if Bell doesn’t sign?)
Just an FYI
BrewHaHeather started a Draft Day 2 thread in the Fanposts
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Cincinnati
|
26 | 20 | .565 | 0 | Won 1 |
|
St. Louis
|
25 | 22 | .531 | 1.5 | Lost 3 |
|
Houston
|
22 | 24 | .478 | 4 | Lost 1 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
22 | 24 | .478 | 4 | Won 2 |
|
Milwaukee
|
19 | 27 | .413 | 7 | Lost 1 |
|
Chicago
|
15 | 31 | .326 | 11 | Lost 11 |
(updated 5.27.2012 at 12:11 PM CDT)
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