Why not Taylor Green?

by brewersfanatic on Jul 25, 2011 12:21 AM CDT

There has been so much talk about making a change at 3B because of McGehee's unusual season-long slump. I've seen trade rumors and thoughts of bringing up Mat Gamel to 3B for good. It seems to me that the Brewers organization has forgotten about Taylor Green.

I can understand the idea of trading for a Third Baseman to fill our need for this year, but if the move to be made is calling up a player, why would we call up Gamel rather than Green? Both are having exceptional years at the plate in Nashville, and Green traditionally has a slightly better glove at 3B than Gamel.

Year

Team

G

BA

OBP

SLG

OPS

2B

3B

HR

R

RBI

Mat Gamel

2011

Nashville

(AAA)

87

.327

.395

.570

.965

23

0

19

59

65

Taylor Green

2011

Nashville
(AAA)

90

.316

.400

.542

.942

26

0

14

48

58

Gamel has had a good year at the plate and with the glove all while playing 1B. It does not seem advantageous to interrupt his grooming at 1B, while we have Green waiting in AAA. It does not appear that Gamel has any higher of an upside than Green, especially at 3B. Why haven't I heard any rumors surrounding Green? Is there something I'm missing?

The only things that I can think of is that Gamel has major league experience, and this is only Green's first year in AAA. What is your opinion, Brewer Nation?

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It's this.

The only things that I can think of is that Gamel has major league experience, and this is only Green’s first year in AAA.

fka "warwick5s"

by DEUCE SLUICE on Jul 25, 2011 10:48 AM CDT reply actions

Of course... he's been terrible in the majors...

For your health!

by menchkins on Jul 25, 2011 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions

terrible?

he was pretty bad this season, but…

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 28, 2011 4:49 AM CDT up reply actions

He's been pretty much terrible

For your health!

by menchkins on Jul 28, 2011 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions

OPS+

of 101 in 2009, his season with the most ABs.

99 overall in all seasons but this one. Yeah, completely terrible for a guy coming off the bench. I can’t believe he collected a paycheck

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 28, 2011 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions

his WAR/162 Games

was only 1.0 through last year, but that’s not awful for a player near the beginning of their career nor someone that doesn’t see normal reps and “get in the groove”

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 28, 2011 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions

His OPS was .729 and that was 2 years ago. Career OPS of .684. That's pretty terrible.

I’m not saying he definitely won’t hit in the majors, I have no idea if he will or won’t. I think it’s a bit dangerous to just assume he’s going to be a good hitter and give him the starting 1B job though.

He definitely can’t hit lefties for shit. Not even in the PCL.

For your health!

by menchkins on Jul 28, 2011 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions

OPS+ corrects for league average

he’s been league average for his entire career, except this year.

don’t make up arbitrary points where you think OPS is awful, etc if someone’s already come up with a league-average statistic.

That being said, yes he was atrocious so far this season. Atrocious enough to bring down his overall stats. But to say he’s been terrible in the majors is disingenuous

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 29, 2011 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions

I don't get it...

Why would you want to artificially inflate anyone’s numbers?

OPS is what it is. It is a perfect measure of what he did offensively on the field.

His OBP + hi SLG

Why adjust for league average? Just to make the numbers go up? That’s just playing with math, it doesn’t change what he actually did on the field. By that measure wouldn’t Pujols’ OP+ be like 9 billion in his good years?

I don’t understand that, can you explain why they do it?

For your health!

by menchkins on Jul 29, 2011 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions

quote: OPS is what it is. It is a perfect measure of what he did offensively on the field.

yes, and the point is, he did it just as well as everyone else in the league…. Or rather did the average of the league. how is that terrible?

they do OPS+ (and AVG+ and ERA+, etc, etc) so that things are on an 100 point scale and so you don’t have issues like “was a .250 average bad or good in 1932?”

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 29, 2011 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions

But doesn't that factor in really horrible players as well? Doesn't that bring down the AVG?

Even if it is league average I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t want our everyday starting first baseman to have a .729 OPS. Unless of course we are able to replace Prince’s production somewhere else on the field.

For your health!

by menchkins on Jul 30, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions

of course it figures in the horrible players

as well as the awesome players. However, the horrible players TEND to not get as many hitting opportunities, and since the league average thing takes into account total at bats (and doesn’t consider every player equal), this means that league average is more skewed by the great players than the horrible ones on a per-player basis. Put another way, the mean OPS+ for the league is 100 (on a per at-bat/PA basis) whereas the median OPS+ (by player) is below 100.

put yet another way, Gamel is either average or above average offensively in his limited opportunities (disregarding this year).

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 30, 2011 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions

Huh

Well that’s an interesting way to view it but I think I still prefer to just look at OPS.

I could see it having more value if it was handled position by position, that I would find a bit more useful I think. In other words what is the OPS+ of starting 1st basemen since that’s supposedly what Gamel is going to be next year.

For your health!

by menchkins on Jul 31, 2011 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions

the point is...

you have an inflated view of what a good OPS is.

We don’t know for sure what the org plans on doing with him next year, assuming they keep him, anymore. Maybe they’ll sign someone else to play first and Gamel will be a utility backup. Maybe he’ll flourish with more playtime, as he has a great OPS in the minors. In any case, he’s not terrible. Terrible would be Gomez or Escobar last year. Or Yuni basically anytime except right now. Or Counsell right now.

If you want to say he’ll be under the average 1B…sure, he might be that. He will be no where near the worst in the league though.

Since you ask, avg OPS+ of a 1B is 116, easily the tops of any position. However, if he’ll be better than anyone else we’ve got in the system, he just might have to do. He’ll be better than most people we can throw in the outfield to take over for Braun/Hart, and Hart will likely be under the average 1B production as well. So, why not just use Gamel at first and take a small hit, but still get a reasonable offensive performance?

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 31, 2011 1:18 AM CDT up reply actions

I don't think it would be a small hit to replace Prince with Gamel.

I’d rather they tried to acquire someone with a proven ML track record personally.

For your health!

by menchkins on Jul 31, 2011 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions

Proven track records are expensive

With the raises the arby guys will be getting, plus an extension of either Marcum or Greinke… I don’t know if they’ll have much to throw at a FA 1B with a proven track record.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 1, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions

Also

Green would have to be added to the 40 man roster to be called up, since he’s not on it currently. The widget on the side of the main BCB page claims that the Crew currently have 1 40-man spot free, but most of the time, that would require someone to be waived/DFA.

Though the easy answer to that problem is still to waive/release Yuni, platoon Wilson/Counsell at SS (or get an ugrade via trade), and call up Green to split time with McGehee at 3B. That would be the sensible play, it seems, but saying it over and over on this site does not seem to be increasing the likelihood that it’ll happen.

by JLHanke on Jul 25, 2011 11:20 AM CDT reply actions

by sjlee on Jul 28, 2011 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions

so...

they’re both coming up soon?:P

by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 29, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions

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