Gamel to the White Sox? (UPDATED)
by MooseHaas on Jul 27, 2011 4:20 PM CDT
Email
PrintTwitter rumor I just came across:
@MrFantasyExpert: "Mat Gamel to the White Sox talks have intensified.....something could come of this as soon as later on this evening #brewers #whitesox"
Weird source. Not a media member, but the Twitter account came out of three months of dormancy to say the Jackson deal was imminent. So maybe there's a thread of truth to this?
Next question is, what would we WANT from the White Sox that's worth giving up our 1B for the foreseeable future?
Adam Dunn? Matt Thornton? Will Ohman? Carlos Quentin? Alexei Ramirez? What's realistic, and what do we need?
UPDATE:
More Tweets from @MrFantasyExpert, who claims to have a src close to the situation, and says Alex Rios and Thornton are the targets. Thanks to SRB for passing them along in the comments.
Centerpiece in the Gamel to White Sox trade is Thornton/Rios,still gathering more in terms of farm players being discussed. WS eating Rios $
Nothing is final quite yet, but the White Sox are expected to eat most of Rios’s remaining $, and Thornton will be a centerpiece.
Still gathering minor league players being discussed from both teams in the Gamel to White Sox trade #whitesox #brewers.
Nothing is final, and with as much money as Rios is owed, I am sure a lot of specifics are being worked out in terms $ eaten by White Sox
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I would flip for joy if it was Alexi
by LosinCatmansLove on Jul 27, 2011 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
same here. I also think Dunn would be a really smart gamble, especially if the WS eat a large chunk of his salary.
We’d have a power bat off the bench for the rest of the season and a first baseman for next.
Plus we’d get to hear Uecker say “BigAdam Dunn” a lot more which is a plus.
For your health!
Yeah, but he's not old and before this year he was one of the most consistent players in all of baseball.
My guess is, he just wasn’t suited to being a DH. Move him back to being a position player, put him back in the NL, I bet he tears it up again.
For your health!
so...bump prince????
if he can’t dh, he can’t ph
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 28, 2011 4:18 AM CDT up reply actions
It would b a move more for the future than for this season. Even so though he may be able to hit NL pitching better.
For your health!
We're not going to trade for a guy just to bench him completely
and I see no reason to dump Prince for him. If you’re talking about how to handle him next season, that’d be a “well, duh” as he’s likely the best 1B candidate we’d have at that time.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 28, 2011 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions
That's what I'm saying, they couls use him off the bench for the rest of the season then let him play 1st next season.
For your health!
He'd basically be worthless this year then
He’s not hitting with regular time as the DH… what makes you think he’d be any good as a PH?
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
He wouldn't be any less useless than what we have right now on the bench and then we'd have him for next year and beyond.
For your health!
Not true
He’s hitting worse than everyone except Counsell
Dunn
.163/.297/.307
Kotsay
.250/.307/.330
Kottaras
.207/.254/.345
Wilson
.277/.306/.489
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Ok, but at least he's a home run threat. Not like his last 10 seasons but he still has 11 I think.
I could be totally wrong, I freely admit it would be a gamble, it just seems way to coincidental that he started to suck immediately when he was made a DH.
my GUESS is that he would bounce back nicely if he moved back to the NL.
For your health!
I don't know why you put so much into being a DH
particularly when you have no example in mind.
I’d think the White Sox organization would be more to blame than simply being the DH… particularly since he was horrible in the field.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
I don't have a better explanation for such a huge drop off in production.
Dunn isn’t a guy whose numbers change much from year to year, his numbers have been almost unbelievably consistent. I don’t see why he would have just hit a wall when he turned 31.
For your health!
He's also stated that he doesn't like being a DH.
That sample size id obviously really small but it still speaks to the point.
For your health!
I still love Donkey
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Jul 30, 2011 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I could point out small sample size
but since he’s only had 13 PAs as DH, it doesn’t even qualify for “small”.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
White Sox aren't going to trade Ramirez. He's very good.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
His contract is fairly large. They might if they are looking to dump salary.
Wasn’t it the WS GM who was talking about completely rebuilding their team?
…or was that someone else. I forget now.
For your health!
They don't need to dump Alexei's salary.
If you’re trying to dump salary to rebuild, you don’t unload the young player that you just signed to a multi-year deal.
http://www.mlbsoup.com
He's not that young though.
I have no idea what their system looks like, maybe they have some good SS prospects coming up.
For your health!
If we trade Mat Gamel for Matt Thornton
I’m going to be very, very sad.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
Agree with you there.
I still have faith in Gamel being a .300-hitting 1B with minimal power.
What would make you happy, though, in a trade?
But if we trade Gamel for Alexei, I'm going to be very, very happy!
by Noah Jarosh on Jul 27, 2011 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I still haven't heard a single reason that the Sox would be motivated to move him.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
Well, if that's the case
offer ’em Stetter before he has his hip surgery.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
That would be entirely worth it
No reason Williams would make that trade, though, right? Also, why would he want Gamel – does he think he can still play 3B? If so, he’s welcome to it!
Maybe Gamel has been back at 3B the last couple days in AAA as an audition.
#conspiracytheory
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
Interesting
Since Gamel has been back in Nashville, he has played 3B (8 games).
The plot thickens…
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
I'd take Thornton
This team desperately needs someone in the bullpen who can get lefties out
Get a ife broseph
He's not a LOOGY.
But I fear RRR would use him as such — which is the main reason I’d be very, very sad if we moved Gamel for him.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
This year, he'd get used as a LOOGY.
I can’t see any way he’d face righties instead of Loe, and we already have innings 8/9 locked up.
That's probably too much to spend on a bullpen arm anyways
Especially when there are some internal candidates for next year, plus an always active trade market for them.
Get a ife broseph
For Gamel though?
Seems like a pretty huge risk. Who would be play first next year if that was the case?
Move Hart there and call someone up?
For your health!
Move Hart to SS!
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
by SRB on Jul 27, 2011 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
This is intriguing
I have been a Mat Gamel apologist for a loooooong time, but his poor performance in the bigs is concerning. I know, I know, small sample size, but you really have got to start raking up here sometime.
I’ve found myself wondering if his trade value has exceeded his likely MLB production value. I sort of think it has, sad to say.
by LosinCatmansLove on Jul 27, 2011 4:28 PM CDT reply actions
Is this a way to replace Prince before Prince is gone?
(by getting Dunn to play 1B in 2012-14, I mean)
Could be. Smart move too IMO.
I’d be really surprised if Dunn doesn’t return to form if he gets to play the field every day again. Not to mention moving back to the NL.
For your health!
I could maybe see his hitting improving by facing NL pitching again
but I don’t see why being a DH would hurt his hitting… when all he would have to think about is hitting.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Some guys can't do that.
Sit on the bench all game long just waiting for their at bats.
God I hate the DH.
For your health!
Some guys?
Name one MLB player who hit worse as a DH, then started hitting better again after being put back into the field.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
If I had a baseball almanac for a brain I'm sure I could name some. Sadly however... I do not = (
It doesn’t strike you as amazingly coincidental that Adam Dunn, one of the most consistent hitters in all of baseball all of a sudden fel apart when he moved to the AL and was put into a DH role?
For your health!
Even the most consistent players eventually decline in performance
I’d pin it more on the organization than anything else. Rios is also having a career worst season.
I don’t think being the DH should affect him that much. It’s not like fielding was something he was actually good at.
He’s probably due to rebound, but I don’t think it’s a given that he’ll go back to hitting 40 HRs a season again.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Players definitely decline but he's only 31 I think (32 at the oldest)
It’s a very different way to play to just sit on the bench and wait for your turn to bat. Even though he isn’t a good fielder, it’s still a completely different experience.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see him jump back to his previous numbers. Even if he dropped off a bit he’d still be really valuable. His OBP alone (aside from this year) would make him a valuable player.
For your health!
Generally players start declining once they hit their 30s
Although I agree not nearly as much as Dunn has this season.
The problem with Dunn is that his value comes completely from his hitting. Even a small decline in it is going to hurt his value as his defense isn’t going to be getting any better.
If the WS pick up a big chunk of his salary (about half sounds right), I’d be fine with getting Dunn.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
That's my feeling on it.
He would be about as safe a gamble as you could make. Though it would certainly still be a gamble.
For your health!
I think a lot of players would do significantly worse as a PH than a full time DH
During the game you don’t get your blood pumping (adrenaline) from getting some exercise, you have a lot of time to kill that you might use to do unhealthy things (eat garbage food, etc)
In between games, you probably do fewer fielding drills and stretches and you probably are only lifting for certain muscle groups, neglecting others that affect your speed. You might overall get less cardiovascular activity, which will lead to worse overall fitness + you being fatter.
Others might be fine with the DH role…they still take drills as if they were playing first, or they ride an exercise bike when their teammates are in the field.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 29, 2011 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure where you were going with that.
I didn’t say anything about being a PH.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
yeah...i didn't connect it back to what I meant to say
basically that PHing, you’re on the bench the entire night, so plenty of time to lock up and not be stretched.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 29, 2011 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Again
Why did you bring up PHing? I was only talking about DHing.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
maybe not a reply to you
i don’t remember anymore…I think someone said we should get dunn and PH him this season. my argument is if he sucks at DH, he might struggle as a PH as well, so why bother giving up anyone for him.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 30, 2011 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Getting Dunn would be a move for next year and beyond, not this season.
I’d be thrilled if they pursued him in the offseason
For your health!
fair enough
dunno if he can dig his way out of his grave, but the uke quote alone will be worth it.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 31, 2011 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I would be shocked if he stays bad but you never know.
I should amend that…
If he’s still a DH I won’t be as shocked but still pretty surprised.
If he get’s to play the field (preferably in the NL) I would be really really surprised if his numbers didn’t rebound significantly.
For your health!
More I think about this ...
The more I like the idea of Dunn at 1B for the next three years, if we’re paying $10M per, not the full deal.
NOOOOOO
Dunn has dropped like a stone and has given up to the point of talking retirement. I don’t want a quitter on my team
And I like Mat Gamel and think that with consistent playing time, he will be a good ML player.
by Saberilliterate on Jul 27, 2011 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I've always been a huge Adam Dunn fan.
I think he could be great in Milwaukee. Look at his career numbers, this one definitely looks like an aberration and it just so happened to coincide to him not playing the field anymore and moving to the AL.
Some guys aren’t able to play DH.
For your health!
He's not much worse than Prince.
We’re used to having a shitty defensive first baseman
For your health!
He's much worse than Prince.
Prince has never had a UZR/150 below (-11.6) in his six seasons.
In 2009, Dunn somehow had a UZR/150 of (-30.8) in 540 innings at first base.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
Meh.
We’re gonna need to do something if they trade Gamel.
Maybe Hart to 1st, Dunn to left, Braun to right?
For your health!
Why overthink it?
Dunn would play first. Done. Dunn.
fka "warwick5s"
by DEUCE SLUICE on Jul 27, 2011 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions
That's what I thought but Rubie pointed out how bad Dunn's defense is, even compared to Prince.
For your health!
Ask Rubie. I'm too lazy to look it up.
My guess is he’d probably be similar to Carlos Lee.
Not good, but his bat can make up for it.
For your health!
Hence why he only averages about 2 WAR a year
In spite of hitting 40 home runs a season.
He actually was just below average in 2010 at 1B (atleast I think he was if I am reading his fangraph page correctly) although I think that it also shows he has been really bad this year albeit with much smaller sample size
No, we discussed this yesterday:
Alex Rios’s contract is insane. There are no other contenders for that adjective.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
Jason Werth is the reigning king of insane contracts.
Dunn’s isn’t even bad if he were putting up his typical 900ish OPS
For your health!
Yeah, his contract ws insane but at least there was SOME reason to offer it. He was a 40/40 guy afterall.
Still a stupid contract but the Nats are paying Werth a similar contract and he’s never done anything even approaching the years Soriano had previous to his signing.
For your health!
He was the previous king but he's had at least SOME value the last couple of years
…. actually Hampton was probably even worse.
For your health!
jeff suppan
sigh.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
I'm not sure about that
Zito’s deal was bigger but he was actually a fairly productive pitcher for San Francisco. Suppan was actively costing us wins those last few years.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
let's say Dunn is a part of this deal
does that mean he just comes off the bench for the rest of the season? I like this deal if the Brewers can snag Ramirez
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Jul 27, 2011 4:57 PM CDT reply actions
Very interesting. But who would the Brewers trade for...
Has Gordan Beckham’s stock fallen enough that he could be a possibility (as a 3B)? White Sox have some nice relievers, though I hope they don’t trade Gamel for a RP.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
Yeah, he's been playing 2B for them. No reason he can't move though.
He actually played primarily SS during his brief career in the minors (with very good defense, according to TotalZone), though I don’t know if the White Sox moved him because he can’t play there in the majors or because they have Ramirez.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
Like Braun, GB was a college SS
I remember watching him in the CWS and feeling pretty certain that he’d be moved in the bigs. Didn’t look like a pro SS for some reason.
That said, he’d be better than Yuni.
More updates from the original twitter guy
Centerpiece in the Gamel to White Sox trade is Thornton/Rios,still gathering more in terms of farm players being discussed. WS eating Rios $
Nothing is final quite yet, but the White Sox are expected to eat most of Rios’s remaining $, and Thornton will be a centerpiece.
Still gathering minor league players being discussed from both teams in the Gamel to White Sox trade #whitesox #brewers.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
In case anyone is wondering, Rios has been, uh..., less than optimal this season.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
I think the word you wer looking for is HolyShitBad
I don’t see how he would be an upgrade over Carroll.
Carroll would have to REALLY suck for Rios to be a better option
For your health!
I don’t care about being the “source” that broke the news for those asking, but the information being relayed is from someone close to talks
Nothing is final, and with as much money as Rios is owed, I am sure a lot of specifics are being worked out in terms $ eaten by White Sox
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
Is this the HS kid that "broke" the Russell Wilson to Wisconsin story?
Sounds about the same.
Get a ife broseph
Breaking: Ned Yost fired.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
by SRB on Jul 27, 2011 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
fuck that noise
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Jul 27, 2011 5:28 PM CDT reply actions
It'll be Gamel for Dunn and Ramirez
There is nothing scarier for the Sox at this point than eating Dunn’s contract. Ramirez is at his peak, and considering how much of his game is reliant on athleticism, he could be passing it. Gamel can hit and play 1B, and the Sox could be looking to either build younger or free up money for an acquisition (Reyes?)
If it's true at all, it's looking like Gamel+ for Rios/Thornton+
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
Well he's not that horrible.
If people wanted Dunn, they should want Rios. Both are having abysmal (and most likely flukey, unlucky) seasons, but under normal circumstances I think Hart 1B, Rios RF is more valuable than Hart RF, Dunn 1B
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
The potential upside of Dunn is much greater.
Not to mention that we’re going to need a first baseman or outfielder (with power) if we lose Prince and Trade Gamel.
For your health!
Past 5 seasons (not counting 2011)
Dunn: 10.3 WAR
Rios: 18.2 WAR
A lot of Dunn’s intangible value was his insane consistency, but I guess that’s out the window.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
Maybe but I still contend that if he gets put back to where he's comfortable he will rise from the ashes like a glorious phoenix!
For your health!
What'll make him "comfortable"?
Playing in the NL? Playing in the field?
How many guys who started slumping when they hit their early 30s were able to turn it around afterwards?
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
How many guys drop off like Dunn has? His career OPS is .885 this year it's .605
He’s only 31 or 32 ears old.
For your health!
Good question
A quick search for 5 minutes got me one…
Cal Ripken Jr.’s OPS went from .940 (1991) to .689 (1992) when he turned 31. Granted, he did rebound, but he never came close to that number again in a full season.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
So is this guy just stirring up nonsense or what?
Also:
A bit surprised to hear that Eduardo Escobar could potentially be involved in this same deal from the White Sox.
Who is this guy and why should I care
by MillerParkSouth on Jul 27, 2011 5:38 PM CDT reply actions
Escobar....Escobar....Escobar...
Must be a shortstop.
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Jul 27, 2011 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
22-year-old Venezuelan SS in White Sox AAA
Not an elite prospect or anything though, as far as I know.
Guy on Twitter might be making it all up, but it’s interesting to follow nonetheless.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
Stories break in weird places nowadays.
Who knows if this is legit, but I think there’s a chance that it is.
Our beat writers, while competent, never seem to know anything about team transactions until they’re officially announced. The Greinke trade was broken by a blogger, and the Scaparetta call-up got broken by a commenter here. It’s not out of the question that a random Twitterer would have a friend working for a team.
I agree. Lots of people willing to make stuff up too.
Although, if you’re going to make something up, a rumor about Mat Gamel?
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
Offensively he's terrible, so that's cool.
Wouldn’t be a bad ide to get some SS prospects into our system though.
I don’t know if anyone realized this but… we’re a little thin at that position.
= )
For your health!
Escobar was the White Sox #5 prospect coming into this season, according to Baseball America
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
Plus defensive SS who can't hit but is projected to maybe be a MLB starter?
I might trade Gamel for that guy straight up, just because of the positional black hole in the Brewers system.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
What postional black hole?
We’ve got like 5 guys at AAA all pretending to play SS and 2 at the ML level who pretend they can play the position as well.
What else could we ask for?
For your health!
As far as I know...
All of our people pretending to play SS are pretending on both offense and defense. At least this guy would only be pretending on one side.
Either this guy is full of crap, or DM is trying too hard to surprise everyone again.
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
Isn't it nice that our biggest need isn't a #1 starter?
Ugh, Shortstop
by theBrouhaha on Jul 27, 2011 5:49 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Just got a text from ESPN that said something about Josh Wilson...
and after getting excited, I realized they were talking about a CB from the Washington Redskins.
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
That's the same guy. Josh Wilson plays CB in the NFL during the offseason.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
He should stick to the NFL, he's going to make 13 mil in 3 years!
I think that is quite a bit more than he currently makes.
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Jul 27, 2011 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions
FWIW (Not much, because all comments by Ozzie point to it being because Rios hasn't performed)
De Aza started in place of Rios this afternoon.
Unfortunately I think we're stuck with yuni.
So something like this trade going down wouldn’t surprise me.. fills the LH pitcher in the BP.. Rios, I dunno.. I’ll take him over Kotsay and carroll tho
If they absolutely can't get a shortstop, I guess this is a decent trade
Assume the WS pick up a large portion of Rios’ contract, because I would be extremely scared of what we do at 1B next year if Rios is awful and we don’t have Gamel anymore.
I do not believe that they cannot get a SS
There are several struggling teams that have a SS who are tradeable. Dodgers,Astros,Mariners,Padres etc
Oh, I agree
I’m not saying they can’t get a SS. I’m saying IF they can’t get a shortstop I’m close to being ok with this trade. Gives them a lefty and also sets them up for the next few years (If Rios can return to form)
I think they have decided that their current shortstop situation isn’t much worse than what they could get in a trade. I think they’re probably wrong, but…
fka "warwick5s"
by DEUCE SLUICE on Jul 27, 2011 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Is Nyjer a FA next season?
If not does Rios do us much good going forward? Or could they move Hart to 1st maybe? Not sure how Hart would feel about that.
I was thinking Hart to 1st
He played it a bit in the minors. And to be honest, I don’t really care what he thinks about it. Learn to like it you get paid millions to play a game.
Not a bad lineup if McGehee stops sucking or is replaced:
CF N. Morgan/C. Gomez
1B C. Hart
LF R. Braun
2B R. Weeks
RF A. Rios
3B. C. McGehee/T. Green
C J. Lucroy
SS E. Escobar?/anybodybutyuni
P Z. Greinke
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
This trade wouldn't necessarily have any impact on their SS search
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
If Gamel isn't untouchable
it seems our scope of potential shortstops would be wider than we think, no?
by Archibaldcrane on Jul 27, 2011 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe. I'm not sure Gamel's trade value is all that great though.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
They'd better pick up most of Rios' contract...
11:$12M, 12:$12M, 13:$12.5M, 14:$12.5M, 15:$13.5M club option ($1M buyout)
- may block trades to 6 clubs beginning in 2009
- if traded between beginning of 2011 season and Spring Training 2014, future salaries increase by $0.5M each
- if traded during 2014 season, 2015 option increases to $14M ($2M buyout)
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
somehow, I agree with this
Ugh, Shortstop
I wonder..
how many deals don’t get made because of the message board leaks?
that said, I don’t hate really anything that i’ve read to this point, pending the $ and minor leaguer’s involved. really does seem this season is ‘all in’ as it gets. sweet if alexei was somehow involved. if not, really would not doubt if the brewers aren’t done dealing yet…
or, our roster could be status quo 2 months from now. baseball is fun.
Don't really get it
A mild upgrade to the lesser half of our CF platoon and a lefty bullpen arm for our best hitting prospect? If they are eating a ton of salary in the deal I guess…but aren’t they dumping these guys in an effort not to eat salary?
Just seems like we could turn Mat Gamel into something more advantageous than this if he’s not untouchable. Any talk of Hart to 1B and Rios to RF full-time next season requires Rios to revert from his “I am a pumpkin” status that he is in right now.
Rios is currently having a career worst season right now
Five of his eight seasons have been above his career average… .275/.324/.433
I would say that a rebound is as likely with him as with Dunn or McGehee.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
You're probably right. All of them are gambles but they seem like they'd be good gambles to take if we aren't paying the bulk of their salaries.
For your health!
I think that's the biggest problem I'd have with this deal
Why would the White Sox dump Rios if they’re going to end up picking up a big chunk of his contract? I could see them trading away Dunn and Rios, but mainly to dump salary.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
“MrFantasyExpert” guy just posted a link to video of the negotiations.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
by SRB on Jul 27, 2011 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Between this and the past 36 hours of free agency in the NFL
I’m pretty discombobulated.
by Archibaldcrane on Jul 27, 2011 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I heard
that when women are put under anesthesia for breast reduction surgery, they wake up all discomboobulated.
…
Hey, they can’t all be winners.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
that one truly was not a winner
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
BCB Fantasy Football League 1 Champ
Its odd
Are they saying Rios only because he’s been utterly terrible this year, and its more believeable? Why wouldn’t the Brewers want Quentin rather than Rios if, as this guy is saying, he is available?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
Maybe, depending on cash
But the current rumor has minor leaguers from both sides going, not just Gamel.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Jul 27, 2011 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Rios is a buy-low.
Rios seems like a Melvin move to me. Not saying this rumor has any credibility, but I could see Melvin making that trade.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
Braves are apparently after Quentin
And have probably more to offer in terms of prospects
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
So, yeah, I'm going with "this is a total farce"
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Jul 30, 2011 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions
If real
Horrible move. In Rios you get a guy who is worse than Betancourt, and in Thornton you get a very expensive 7th or 8th inning guy.
For what? Your future first baseman, and 20 IP for the rest of the season? Even with this move the Brewers are still a game or two short probably come October, and with Weeks out now (for who knows how long) could be even more.
Again, if true, Melvin is really torching the landscape for his successor.
Rios put up 3.7 fWAR last season
And is 30 years old. He’s a perfect buy-low candidate. As long as his salary is mostly covered, he’s a steal right now.
And the season before that he was replacement level
For some reason, call it reason….I dont think Rios is a buy anytime candidate.
He put up over 5 fWAR the 2 seasons in 07-08
The guy has value. Not his contract worth of value, but he has value.
I wouldn't say that
he buys players who are playing very poorly. Sometimes they turn around. Sometimes they don’t. Which leads me to believe there’s way more blind squirrel in his methodology than stats.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Jul 30, 2011 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions
There's always an element like that
If someone is performing poorly, it’s nearly impossible to know for certain whether it will turn around. All you can do is take a chance based on the limited data you have.
Maybe other GMs do it all the time, but Melvin sure seems to do well picking up players off the scrap heap.
by cwolf20 on Jul 30, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Death and taxes are the only certainties in life
but there are advanced metrics that make it possible to know who is likely to improve, and who is not. I don’t think Doug Melvin uses those.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Jul 30, 2011 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess
Turnbow was a good pickup for a couple years, Axford has been good. Kaplar was good, Coffey was good, Edmonds was good, McGehee had 2 years of very solid production.
I’m just not sure what you expect from him.
I don’t have data for all other GMs, but DM has gotten a lot of use out of guys who other teams gave up on.
by cwolf20 on Jul 31, 2011 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Looper was bad, Davis was bad, Gagne was bad, Coffey was bad for most of the time he was here.
I mean are we just going to tit for tat this?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Aug 1, 2011 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Coffey was not bad for most of the time he was here, and you know it.
And the discussion was about scrap heap pickups.
Yes, Looper was bad, Davis was injured. Gagne was bad. He also had money to spend, several gaping holes at the time, and not really any good options on the market.
I’m still not sure what you expect from him. He got no pitchers out of his farm system except Gallardo for multiple years (Jack Z is at least as much to blame for this, if not more).
by cwolf20 on Aug 2, 2011 2:08 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're right, Coffey was bad for all of 2010, but not 2009 and the partial season in 2008.
I thought Looper, Davis and Gagne were all scrap heap pickups?
Luck is what he has, my friend. Look at Coffey’s career numbers and tell me he knew he was going to have a huge outlier season in 2009. Its just not possible.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Aug 2, 2011 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I perceive a scrapheap pickup to be someone picked up not to fill a specific need
Just someone who was recently let go or available for extremely cheap from a team and was worth taking a chance on.
Looper/Davis/Gagne were all signed to fill gaping holes and were expected to produce at around career averages (which they had done the year before).
Do you understand where I’m coming from now?
For example, Lopez this year would be considered a scrap-heap pickup in my book
Despite RRR’s overusing him.
Felipe Lopez?
the guy they picked up because RIckie got injured? I don’t think that fits your definition.
Also Coffey was a waiver claim. If you want to talk about a waiver claim, then that’s fine, but you can’t talk about Kapler, Turnbow or Axford, then.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Aug 2, 2011 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions
He was available for nothing
So he fits into my given definition for “scrap-heap.” Coffey as well, as he was had for extremely cheap.
Waiver claims can be scrap heap depending on the player and the cost to get them.
I can't believe this thread is still getting comments
also, the twitterer whose rumors instigated this discussion … hasn’t tweeted again since right before the trade deadline. was he so embarrassed that he offed himself?
Ramirez
If its for ramirez do it but not for rios and dunn that just sounds stupid
"You want to see some consistency. Doug takes the ball and gives you a solid effort each time out."
Doug Melvin
by russelTHEmuscle on Jul 28, 2011 8:55 AM CDT reply actions
we are probably inquiring about ramirez
and williams wants to dump a bad contract/player with it.
kind of like getting Yuni B from KC
aaaaah, I gotta go!!
Silver lining in Weeks to the DL:
This trade will hopefully not be made.
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
Rumor persists
White Sox and Brewers still working out the specifics and all indications are the Gamel+prospect/s for Rios-salary/Thornton/Escobar is a go
Source indicated that the only things slowing down the trade is prospects with Gamel matched with +/- salary owed on Rios’s contract
Beckham was reportedly asked about late last night, but the Brewers don’t have a big enough piece besides Gamel the WS are interested in.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
If what he's saying is true
Who the heck is this guy’s source, and why does he keep feeding him information? I would have thought someone from the organization would have seen this (I’m sure someone has) and gotten word to shut him up.
So, so weird.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 28, 2011 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Lots if minor people floating around GMs offices that make leaks possible. This guy does seem to have suspiciously accurate details though.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
Yeah
This level of detail could only really come from the top handful of guys in the FO.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 28, 2011 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Or an assistant or secretary
There goes DM again over asking with the White Sox. Gordon Beckham/Rios/Thornton and a prospect for Gamel and a prospect?
I realize Beckham has underperformed, but DM is out of his mind if he thinks Gamel and some throw in could get him all of those players.
If it's an assistant or secretary (which I doubt)
Then they should be fired.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 29, 2011 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
And now that I've read SRB's posts below
I don’t think we need to worry about a firing, or about DM overasking. :)
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 29, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah I'm also pissed he asked for too much instead of too little
I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful
If the trade happens, I think it could range from pretty decent to horrendous, depending on the specific terms.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
If they toss in 30 mil, I wouldn't mind.
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Jul 28, 2011 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions
btw, more on Eduardo Escobar:
Kevin Goldstein at Baseball Prospectus seems especially high on him. He had him as the White Sox #2 prospect this season (behind Chris Sale, and rated as a “Four Star Prospect,” which the Brewers had none of) and ranked him #91 on his preseason top 100.
By now I think the chance of this trade rumor being true is somewhere around 0.005% though.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
Exactly.
Why in the hell would the Sox give us a prospect of his caliber for Gamel and whatever other nonsense we’d be sending.
Not going to happen.
Not these specific terms anyway.
For your health!
They might
If they wanted the Brewers to pick up Rios’ entire contract.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Update! I think everyone should ignore this rumor
My 10 minutes of Google detective work have led to the conclusion that this guy has a history of reporting false (or mistaken) rumors on Twitter.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
Well I don’t know if he’s deliberately trolling people, but from this thread about some college football signing it looks like he had a “source” falsely reporting that some guy was going to sign at OSU. There was another reference to the Twitter account on some other college football board that seemed to suggest he had been wrong about another rumor too, though it wasn’t entirely clear what he had posted and it looks like all these tweets have since been deleted.
"PLUSH ALERT: THERE WAS AN UNTUCKING AT FENWAY!"
no one is going to have an inside man for multiple sports.at the pro level
still possible he has an inside man at the White Sox (Jackson plus this one)
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 29, 2011 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
What?! Nieves isn't with the Brewers anymore?! We're screwed.
:)
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Whew.
Fun while it lasted, but I’m really glad Melvin isn’t that crazy.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 29, 2011 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I was thinking more
Crazy to want to take on the contracts of Rios and/or Dunn.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jul 29, 2011 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
BUAHHHHH
GAMEL: 1B for the forseeable future? Now that’s funny
just another internet GM making things up and over valuing what they have. what on earth would anyone want with gamel. gamel had value until he played for the brewers. now everyone knows he’s a glorified DH
Tim Bring back the chalet,frank charles at the wurlitzer organ, bob betts at the mic, and the barrell man logo!!!!
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Cincinnati
|
26 | 20 | .565 | 0 | Won 1 |
|
St. Louis
|
25 | 22 | .531 | 1.5 | Lost 3 |
|
Houston
|
22 | 24 | .478 | 4 | Lost 1 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
22 | 24 | .478 | 4 | Won 2 |
|
Milwaukee
|
19 | 27 | .413 | 7 | Lost 1 |
|
Chicago
|
15 | 31 | .326 | 11 | Lost 11 |
(updated 5.27.2012 at 12:11 PM CDT)
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