Tuesday's Frosty Mug
Some things to read while panic sets in.
Despite the fact that they lost a game against the Pirates for the first time all year last night, it's another pretty good day to be a Brewer fan. Here's a quick rundown of this morning's excitement:
- With yesterday's Cardinals loss and the Brewer doubleheader split, the team is nine games up in the Central for the first time in franchise history.
- John Autin of the B-Ref Blog says the NL Central race is over.
- The Brewers are on the cover of Sports Illustrated.
- The Washington Post says the Brewers' "win-now plan" is working.
It wasn't that long ago that the Brewers were looking up at the Pirates in the NL Central standings. @STATS_MLB has a pretty clear illustration of what's happened since:
| Team | OPS Against Before 7/25 | OPS Against Since |
| Brewers | .714 | .579 |
| Pirates | .706 | .836 |
Ryan Braun hit his 25th home run in yesterday's first game, and now needs just five homers and four stolen bases to become the second 30/30 player in franchise history and the first since 1970. Tyler Lockman of FS Wisconsin has more on the pursuit.
If not for one awful inning yesterday the Brewers might have had a doubleheader sweep. Tom Haudricourt has a recap of the disaster in the seventh. Zack Greinke, to his credit, didn't blame luck for the bad frame. Here's what he told Adam McCalvy regarding Josh Harrison's bloop that drove in the winning run:
"Those hits happen. That's why strikeouts are the best thing to do."
Other notes from the field:
- Chris Narveson left yesterday's start after the nail on his left middle finger caught on a pitch and pulled away a bit. He seems to think he'll be fine but Tom Haudricourt noted that the Brewers could use off days to skip his turn in the rotation again if needed.
- Pirates third baseman Steve Pearce left yesterday's first game with an injury to the index finger on his right hand, forcing catcher Michael McKenry to make his first professional appearance at third.
- Josh Wilson is from Pittsburgh and his family bought out a section at PNC Park to watch him yesterday.
- Chris Narveson, Andrew McCutchen and Jose Tabata are leading FanGraphs' Star of the Game voting for game one, and Brad Lincoln, Zack Greinke and Josh Harrison are leading the vote for game two.
- The Brewer magic number is now at 25.
The two teams play a more traditional single game tonight, and Spencer Fordin of MLB.com has the preview. We're coming down to the wire for the Prognostikeggers regular season, so don't forget to get your predictions in. The Pirates will need to make a roster move before the game to activate starting pitcher Ross Ohlendorf from the DL.
Meanwhile, the Bucs will need another spot starter for tomorrow: Kevin Correia was scheduled to start but has been placed on the DL with an oblique strain.
Marco Estrada is making what will likely be his final start for a while today: With Chris Narveson healthy(ish) he'll return to the long relief role in the bullpen. To his credit, he said all the right things to Adam McCalvy about the transition.
Despite yesterday's rare loss, the Brewers are still 23-4 in their last 27 games. Trenni Kusnierek has a look at the question many of us have asked at one point or another recently: Is this team this hot, or this good?
At least once each day lately (and frequently more often) I see someone asking the same question: "What is that thing (insert Brewer here) is doing after hits?" In an effort to avoid having to explain it every single day for the rest of the year, here's a primer. It's called "Beast Mode." Ron Roenicke doesn't like it. Mitch Stetter's son does it.
Even after the Brewers' recent hot streak, they're still not getting much respect in one corner of the web: For Baseball Junkies says the Crew has the fourth best pitching staff among NL contenders.
Another day, another Prince Fielder story: MLB Trade Rumors has a look at the reasons why every MLB team might pass on the slugger in free agency.
In the minors:
- The affiliates went 2-3 last night and Mat Gamel had four hits (including a home run) in Nashville's 7-3, 11 inning win over Omaha. You can read about that and more in today's Minor League Notes.
- Wily Peralta carried a no-hitter into the seventh inning in that game.
- Nashville outfielder Caleb Gindl is Minor League Ball's prospect of the day, and John Sickels says he "strikes me as the kind of player who will sneak up on people and have some surprisingly impressive seasons at his peak."
- Sickels also saw Nashville starter Mike Fiers pitch this weekend, and says he "saw enough positive stuff out of him that I think he can contribute in the majors as a fifth starter or long relief type."
- Wisconsin pitcher Brooks Hall is the Prospect of the Week at Disciples of Uecker. Toby Harrmann says, "Hall will never be a huge strikeout guy, and probably never a top of the rotation pitcher, but he offers an enticing package of tools that stand a good chance of turning him into a solid Major League starter."
- Nashville's triple play from last week earned "Play of the Week" honors on SportsCenter.
In power rankings:
- FanGraphs has the Brewers holding steady at five.
- Beyond the Box Score also has them at five.
If you haven't yet, please take a moment today to vote in the BCB Tracking Poll. It'll be open through the end of the day today and results will go up sometime after that.
Around baseball:
Indians: Placed DH Travis Hafner on the DL with a strained right foot.
Orioles: Placed reliever Jason Berken on the DL with a shoulder strain.
Phillies: Placed shortstop Jimmy Rollins on the DL with a strained groin.
Twins: Placed pitcher Nick Blackburn on the DL with a forearm strain.
Yankees: Designated pitcher Aaron Laffey for assignment.
This has already been mentioned in this morning's Around the NL Central and other places, but it's too good not to bring up again: Cardinals outfielder Matt Holliday had to leave last night's game (an eventual loss) after a moth flew into his ear and got stuck. Jeff Sullivan of Baseball Nation has a look at the event in pictures. The moth was eventually extracted. Here's what I'd like to know: If removing a moth with tweezers is all that needed to be done, why did Holliday have to come out of the game? That seems like something the trainers should've been able to do on the field.
Last week I mentioned this day was coming, and now it's here. Late last night, the Astros became baseball's first mathematically eliminated team in 2011.
I'm not sure if it showed up on any of the highlight shows (I didn't watch them last night), but yesterday's best catch was made in the stands in Atlanta.
Elsewhere in impressive feats in other games: Mariners outfielder Wily Mo Pena hit a ball last night that will likely turn out to be the hardest hit home run of the MLB season. Hit Tracker estimates its speed off the bat at 117.5 miles per hour. Prince Fielder has the three hardest hit home runs by a Brewer this year, and they're all between 116 and 117.
I've been largely avoiding the daily coverage of the Frank McCourt mess in LA, but this note was too good to pass up: McCourt's lawyers are currently making more money than any Dodger player.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to send another package.
Drink up.
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Another Power Poll Ranking you might want to include:
You gotta eat lightning and crap thunder, Plush!
by brewersfanatic on Aug 23, 2011 11:12 AM CDT reply actions
Holliday
Looking at those pictures, it appears he’s in a huge amount of pain. But upon further review, I think it is more likely revulsion. That’s disgusting.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 11:30 AM CDT reply actions
I'm not one to believe in a jinx
but the SI cover makes me nervous
"...just throw that pill over the plate and I'll make it happen." - Tony Plush
by thefreewheelin76 on Aug 23, 2011 11:41 AM CDT reply actions
Why?
I think just about every team who won their respective sport’s championship was on the cover at some point during the season.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
by sjlee on Aug 23, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because superstitious people get nervous when their team that hasn't performed as well as it currently is in a generation are featured on a national magazine cover.
I don’t think that’s too hard to fathom.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
The best part is that the Brewers will certainly fall off a bit from their recent run of great baseball
Just because no team can that pace for that long, and some will blame the “SI Curse”
Get a ife broseph
This
I guess I’m not nervous about it, and the Crew definitely deserve the attention. I guess I’d rather have the team more under the radar. Though that’s pretty hard when they are winning like this.
"...just throw that pill over the plate and I'll make it happen." - Tony Plush
by thefreewheelin76 on Aug 23, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I suppose a case could be made
for ‘who knows how the team will respond when under the national media spotlight’. Although they’ll have to learn to live with it if they want to be in the playoffs for any extended period of time.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep
Its pretty much the same thing as ‘never talk about the no-hitter when its happening’, and how Johnny has to wear his replica Yount jersey with two sweatbands on his left fore-arm and his khaki Gap cargo shorts every time Narveson pitches on a Tuesday, because they always win.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Being nervous is one thing
I’m just not aware of there being an SI curse. Now the Chunky Soup curse… that’s real. :)
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
C'mon
Peyton Hillis is definitely going to reproduce his effectiveness from last year, there’s no doubt!
by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I love that half the reason Peyton Hillis won that
Is because Packers fans were afraid to vote Rodgers in for fear of the madden Curse
Eh
he’s the first white running back with 1000 yards since, like, 1985 (seriously) – he can have his day in the sun.
(to get a tan I mean)
by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'm not saying he's not a deserving candidate
But most of the people I know who voted, voted for him over Rodgers purely for the reason of the curse.
I’m sure there were plenty of people who voted for him because he was actually good, but he definitely got a boost from the packers fans
Except for when the Brewers owned both Lee and Halladay
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmm
/checks article ranking NL contenders’ pitching
/sees rationale is based on ERA and W-L
/closes tab
by MillerParkSouth on Aug 23, 2011 11:47 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I enjoyed the comment about the Atlanta starters
If not for injury and losing a few starts, Jurrjens would have been another contender for NL Cy Young.
If not for pitching poorly in some games, Doug Davis was also a contender.
by proachinf on Aug 23, 2011 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I can't tell if Greinke is gracious or accustomed to even worse conditions
But I haven’t heard him say one even-slightly negative comment about the defense playing behind him, and he takes full responsibility for all of the runs that score on his watch, despite seeming to suffer more from failed team defense than the rest of the starters. Super classy, imo. The guy’s got confidence and character.
by nullacct on Aug 23, 2011 11:52 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I think he is actually trying to strikeout every batter he faces.
So anything other outcome he views as being his fault..
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
by sjlee on Aug 23, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
He's got his FIP and xFIP tattooed on his eyelids.
"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder
Beast Mode...
Not the coolest jesture I’ve seen, and certainly seems like something to which STL would take exception.
The second part of your comment is enough reason to keep doing it.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
If anyone is looking for their daily dose of "how is this guy writing for a major sports news source"
You can check out this ridiculous piece on how poor poor Chicago is jealous of Wisconsin.
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
Ugh yeah that's awful.
Understand that Chicagoans see Wisconsin only as a great place to get Christmas trees, or maybe to hit a homey festival. And it’s a little insulting to be beaten up by a state that is entirely surrounded by white picket fences.
what
by MillerParkSouth on Aug 23, 2011 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
What a jackass
Didn’t read the article (and don’t want to), but just that comment makes my blood boil. And I don’t even live in Wisconsin anymore.
Brewers fan lost in South Carolina.
by SCBrewer on Aug 23, 2011 12:26 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Big city alert! He probably lives in Aurora or something.
Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but the article suggests that he was born in 1985.
That was nothing, though. Not one major Chicago team won a championship my entire childhood.
Except for, you know, being a kid for the most dominant NBA franchise in basketball history.
"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder
He also must not count the NHL as a major sport.
by MillerParkSouth on Aug 23, 2011 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
or the NBA
Michael Jordan wasn’t that big of a deal I guess.
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't read the article, but I skipped to the comments section
I like this one:
“the entire state is surrounded by white picket fences” WTF ?
I am from New Orleans, LA but have been to both Chicago and Milwaukee several times. I found Chicago to be stuffy, unfriendly snobbish people who could not be friendly unless there was a buck involved for them. Milwaukee was friendly and welcoming in everyway. As for the surrounded by picket fences theory, might I suggest you visit the folks at the Harley-Davidson factories in Milwaukee, they will be glad to show you where the picket fence goec for folks from Chicago…..
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Also
you should check out his bio on his blog. He sure does think a lot of himself, this one.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
But, how does he feel about tennis?
I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful
i love that his big jab at packers fans is that a band from wisconsin once wore flannel shirts in 1921.
Also,
…the band wore "corduroy pants, lumberjack shirts and mackinaws, hunting caps and high boots.’’ … It’s hard to respect that. More important, why do the people in Wisconsin still dress that way?
Apparently he has somehow managed to avoid the gigantic hipster population of Chicago?
It makes me laugh when Chicagoans make fun of Wisconsinites
Hey, Chicago, ever check out the rest of the state you live in?
I love Chicago and have lived here for 8 years but c’mon, if you want to go apples-to-apples, let’s look at the barren expanse of suburbia, interstate and farmland that is the state of Illinois outside of Chicago.
by MillerParkSouth on Aug 23, 2011 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Not to mention
As much as they like to make fun of Wisconsin, they love to vacation up here.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
RIght, I mean
of the 12.8 million people that live in Illinois, 8.4 million of them live in Chicago and the other 6 surrounding counties.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
counterpoint
http://img.photobuckhttp://www.brewcrewball.com/2011/8/23/2379411/tuesdays-frosty-mug#et.com/albums/v424/mark414/snl-super-fans.jpg
by youngmanblues on Aug 23, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I was only half-watching yesterday's evening game
However, I have a question about it. How was Greinke’s overall performance last night? Did he just run into the one bad inning? Was he missing something last night? Did Frankie De La Cruz make it look worse than it actually was?
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
The first ER should have been unearned but wasn’t (missed double play), the seventh inning was a combination of flukiness, bad defense, and Joe West. I think 3-4 of the runs charged to him were inherited runs that scored off FDLC. Greinke wasn’t pitching at his best in the seventh, but 7 ER or whatever it ended up being is just absurd.
"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder
Glad Joe West took it upon himself to show Greinke and the Brewers who's boss
I know I go to every game to watch the umpires. I’m glad he takes his job of altering the outcomes of games so seriously.< /sarcasm>
Founder of the BCBCU - Est. 2011
by ecocd on Aug 23, 2011 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Haha, you don't know?!
"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder
He looked pretty good.
The home run was a bad pitch. The rbi blooper was a great pitch that the batter barely got a piece of. The other runs in that inning were basically a result of weak grounders getting through, or FDLC’s lack of control.
http://www.mlbsoup.com
It was his worst game for strikeouts
in a very long time though.
by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
OT: Pat Summit was diagnosed with early-onset dementia
I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful
Here’s an article on it for anyone interested
I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful
you can read the SI cover story
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 1:06 PM CDT reply actions
Earthquake on the East Coast
Assuming the game will go on as scheduled, but wouldn’t shock me if they PPD it if they want to inspect the stadium.
Get a ife broseph
Yeah, not big
5.8 at the epicenter in VA. The Pentagon is evacuating out of precaution. I’m sure they’ll inspect large structures like baseball stadiums.
Get a ife broseph
My facebook is blowing up about it.
People felt it from Connecticut to Virginia and who knows where else. Not a destructive quake, but had a wide range of “I felt it!”
by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
We had one here about 5 years ago
centered in IL somewhere, and it was early AM, remember thinking a train was going by, but wasnt knocking stuff off the shelves or anything.
From a facebook friend
“The cubicle walls fell. I work on 9 floor and 60y.o. coworkers were flying down the stairs as fast as me. I’m going home.”
He’s kind of a pussy though, so take that with a grain of salt.
by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Here's a thought
Do you believe the Greinke trade is turning out as a beneficial one?
He has put up a 2.9 WAR season so far, while Alcides Escobar has 1.6, and using MLEquivalencies, Lorenzo Cain would have probably been worth at least a 2 WAR. Not to mention the fact they make the league minimum and the loss of Jake Odirizzi.
The division lead is 9 games right now. Greinke hasnt really made the difference.
My thought was that it was a pretty even trade, value wise at the time it was made, and you cant of course 20/20 vision a trade, but was this trade worth it in the end, if the two MLB ready guys you gave away would produce the exact same amount as the player you acquired, and for $13.5 million less?
Yeah
Don’t think the Brewers will win the division by 9 games, so Greinke’s WAR will likely matter.
There’s also the issue of the playoffs, and having a legit top of the rotation starter is big in that regard.
I’m also hesitant to put too much stock into Escobar’s WAR, as it is largely based on a 125 game sample of UZR, which is hard to treat as a hard number.
Get a ife broseph
you forgot to subtract
the negative value of whatever non-stud pitcher they would’ve had to use in Greinke’s place.
by youngmanblues on Aug 23, 2011 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Oh look, backtocali reappears after a 7 ER Greinke start.
Amazing!
"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder
by SRB on Aug 23, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Give me a break
Ive been on vacation. I dont read the Mug as intently when I am not at work. I actually did not even realize Greinke had such a bad game last night. Know they lost, did not know details. In the last two weeks, I have probably watched a total of about 4 innings of Brewer baseball.
I guess we've just been lucky
I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful
by Michael M on Aug 23, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
That brought a smile to my face
I’ll get it started on its way to green. Once TSSC and some of the other see it its well on its way.
I'm glad you get such joy from being so disliked
I’d like to get something started too. Can we get a mod to get rid of this guy for good?
I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful
by Michael M on Aug 23, 2011 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Seconded.
But trolling is allowed in these parts, so…
… until you find a really big ass billy goat gruff, we’ll have to live with him.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Aug 23, 2011 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Greinke has been pedestrian for a pitching God
But he’ll be playing in October, unlike the bearded one.
And well deserved too.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Aug 23, 2011 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Eh, Greinke didn't have "such a bad game" really.
Earned runs are a dumb stat.
by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Fair enough, it just seems that you disappear when the Brewers are doing amazing and return any time something bad happens.
As for how the trade has worked out, assuming your 2 WAR projection for Cain is based on him starting everyday in CF:
Zack Greinke: +2.9 fWAR (21 GS)
Brewers CFs: +4.7 fWAR
Brewers SSs: +0.3 fWAR
Total: +7.9 fWAR
Lorenzo Cain: +2.0 fWAR?
Alcides Escobar: +1.6 fWAR
Mystery pitcher: X.X fWAR
Total – pitcher: +3.6 fWAR
Could the Brewers have gotten a random pitcher that would put up more than +3.3 fWAR in 21 starts? Doubtful.
"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder
by SRB on Aug 23, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
+4.3 in 21 starts*
"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder
Or if we hadn't gotten anyone
it would’ve been Estrada as the 5th, with Narveson as the 4th, if you want to extrapolate that out too.
by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
In all fairness
This past week or so is the only time all year (including offseason) that I have not been around.
I look at fangraphs for WAR. So using that, it would look more like:
Greinke 2.9 WAR
Betancourt 0 WAR
Morgan 2.8 WAR
total 5.7 WAR
Escobar 1.6 WAR
Cain 2? WAR
Pavano 2 WAR
total 5.6 WAR and $5million richer, and still have Odirizzi and two controllable, projectible players for 5 more years, and still in first place.
I am looking at Fangraphs WAR
If you are assuming Cain and Escobar start everyday, then they should be compared to the Brewers team totals at CF/SS.
By your logic we should have traded Prince Fielder for a jetski in the offseason, since we’d still be in the first place.
"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder
by SRB on Aug 23, 2011 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Well if I had my way on that issue
He would be on the White Sox right now, and Daniel Hudson would be in the Brewer starting rotation, and Davan Viciedo would be knocking on the door to the big league club while tearing up AAA.
And the Brewers wouldn't be in the playoffs
Again
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Fielder 4.2 WAR, Hudson 4.0 WAR
And $15 million more on the books, controllable player for 5 years, and huge impact bat prospect ready for promotion.
Let's build a team with the best WAR possible for the least money
Positions don’t matter, that’s for the manager to deal with.
by uwbadgers on Aug 23, 2011 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
We all get your tired schtick
And how YOU would build the Brewers under Colbert’s motto “Building a better tomorrow, tomorrow”. If you feel so strongly go start your own blog about it or heck go write about the team you’re actually a fan of.
We’re all enjoying the ride right now so don’t piss on it. Thanks.
I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful
by Michael M on Aug 23, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Only if that jetski had “Panty Dropper” painted on the side, Kenny Powers style.
"I agree but dont agree"
by juggernaut400 on Aug 23, 2011 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I just mean his name seems to be plucked out of nowhere, making this rampant speculation even more rampant.
by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
To be fair, it didn't come out of nowhere
There was plenty of talk about the Brewers going after Pavano before the Greinke trade occurred.
That being said, he didn’t want to take a 1 year contract and the Brewers weren’t willing to give him anymore than 1 year IIRC
Unless either Escobar or Cain learned to pitch sometime this season
then, yeah, it was a beneficial trade.
You left out the fact that Jeffress got demoted to AA, BTW.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
Eh
I figured him as a throw in in that deal.
But 3 wins is still 3 wins. No matter the source. One of the detriments could have been that they did not go out and acquire Morgan then.
The 3 wins is built on a lot of assumptions
The assumption that Cain is a 2 WAR player using MLE (which has its own issues), that UZR perfectly judges how many wins Escobar has been worth, etc. Its somewhat misguided to look at Fangraphs and conclude “3 wins is 3 wins”
Plus, like I mentioned above, playoff pitching is pretty important.
Get a ife broseph
I don't think you can judge this trade in terms of WAR
unless WAR is able to account for the fact that Greinke’s pitched into the 6th inning in all but three of his starts (two of which came right after he came off the DL) and saved the bullpen from being ravaged by the likes of Dave Bush and Doug Davis.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
Well, you can probably assume that
Carl Pavano would have been the target had the Greinke trade not worked out.
$5mm less, he is a workhorse too, and you add up Cain, Escobar and Pavano, and you are $5mm richer, and have a farm system in better shape, and SS and CF for 5 more years.
And youre still in first place.
Now we're assuming FA signings?
This keeps getting weirder and weirder
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You can argue free agent dollars in terms of WAR with the advantage of hindsight
When we’re done fighting for home field advantage. Until then it just sounds like pissing on a good thing.
by nullacct on Aug 23, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Yeah, and then you have Carl Pavano starting for you in the playoffs.
No thanks.
"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder
by SRB on Aug 23, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Carl Pavano leads the AL in hits allowed and has a K/9 of 3.9.
I’m hard on Greinke, but that’s an apples to oranges comparison if I’ve ever seen one.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
You know who else was a workhorse?
Jeff Suppan and Braden Looper.
And we know how well the team did with those two guys in the rotation.
I seriously doubt the Brewers would be in first place if they didn’t have Greinke. Having Pavano or another SP of his caliber would’ve put more work on the bullpen to finish games.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
by sjlee on Aug 23, 2011 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not to mention the fact that we get Greinke in 2012 too, and if you even remotely trust his xFIP it still suggests he should be considered one of the most elite pitchers in baseball going forward. Huge season from Greinke next year could do a lot to offset the loss of Prince.
"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder
Good points
Just throwing it out there from a numbers standpoint. As a fun excercise.
Think about it, you could even have not traded away Lawrie, and still had been in first place, and then have Lawrie, Odirizzi, Cain and Escobar to offset Fielder departure, for an infinitely cheaper cost.
The only way your scenario works
is if we’d have foreseen that Volquez was going to implode, the Reds were going to pull a 2009 Brewers, and the Cardinals were going to lose their ace in spring training.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Says the guy who predicted the Reds taking the division at 90-72
by nullacct on Aug 23, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The math is on their side.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
Think about it
we could’ve drafted Albert Pujols in the 12th round of the 1999 draft, and then never had to deal with Fielder in the first place!
by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah but Pujols was drafted as a 3B.
"People ask me what I do in the winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."- Rogers Hornsby
Wait
So now you are saying we replace Greinke with Pavano, and then Marcum with…? Somehow I don’t know if we are in first place in your scenario
Pavano again.
He’s a workhorse. He can go on two days’ rest.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
Perfect World Scenario
Lucroy
Hart
Weeks
McGehee
Escobar
Braun
Cain
Gomez/Morgan
Gallardo
Pavano
Hudson
Wolf
Narveson
That team performs almost the same as what is on the field now.
That pitching staff is horrible
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Personally, I like the part where Braun bats 7th
With Escobar protecting McGehee in the power slot. Hilarity
I think he is listing it as defensive position...
rather than batting order. :)
Idk I am tired and need energy drinkage so I don’t know if you are being /sarc. :P
That dog just won't hunt.
by Bush League All Star on Aug 23, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions
ayep
But swapping Yuni and Prince for Cain and Escobar isn’t a wash – WAR is earned in context. Everyone in the lineup owes part of their offensive WAR to Prince in some way. And that rotation is mediocre. That team doesn’t go 77-53 for damn sure.
Its not like you say there
Its swapping Yuni/Prince/Greinke for Escobar/Cain/Hudson/Pavano…the big question mark would be Cain. And again, you are a point where you have $20 million additional to spend on anything you might want to acquire to improve and instead of having the worst farm system in baseball, you have a really good one with 3 top notch guys on the horizon in Odirizzi, Lawrie, and Viciedo.
So we could still trade for Marcum and Greinke?
I like it.
by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
What do you think we could get for, say
Hudson and Pavano in this scenario?
by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Dysentery.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Damn. I knew I shouldn't have spent all my time hunting and fording every river.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
What would I spend the $20MM on?
To be a playoff team I would need a medium upgrade at 5-6 positions, there isn’t a pig ticket free agency hole to fill. That team is worse to work with because it’s loaded with mediocrity.
All FA are bad, I think
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
But the entire brewers team is a house of cards
built entirely on luck and slaughtering their pythagorean projection right?
Why would you want to change anything about them – you remove one piece and the whole thing falls apart.
by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I didn't realize we were going into last season with our hindsight now.
Also, that pitching staff would get destroyed.
I would have just traded for Bautista a couple years ago.
"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder
by SRB on Aug 23, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
No, no it doesn't.
That dog just won't hunt.
by Bush League All Star on Aug 23, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
This
I made my first comment without really looking too much at it.
In what world does Cain + Escobar = Prince + Yuni
and
Greinke + Marcum = Hudson + Pavano
In the world where WAR is used solely to determine wins.
They don’t even play the game anymore. They just add up each team’s WAR and give the WS title to whomever has the highest number.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
by sjlee on Aug 23, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Point is
he gives us a real chance in the playoffs, much better than having to run Wolf out there. Also, if we kept Cain, we wouldn’t have gotten Nyjer Morgan for virtually nothing and his production has been very helpful.
by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
"Oh crap, the Brewers are 9 games up in the division."
“How else can I piss in the cheerios? I know, point out that because they’re so far up, they didn’t need to make all those trades.”
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
from Rosenthal
Ken Rosenthal
Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Wandy Rodriguez CLAIMED on waivers. Team not yet known. #Astros #MLB
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 1:14 PM CDT reply actions
They dropped Edwin Jackson mostly because of payroll
Would be surprised if they took on Wandy’s salary.
I’ll guess Diamondbacks, though admittedly don’t know much about their payroll situation.
Get a ife broseph
Good point on the Sox. I was just thinking back to Alex Rios
I think the D-backs would be a good guess. I’ll also throw the Indians in there
I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful
I'm gonna guess the Yankees
their playoff rotation is going to be weak, but of course Wandy isn’t that great either. Diamondbacks are a good guess too.
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I doubt that the Yankees were able to put in a claim.
Probably never got to them.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
I just saw something recently saying the Yankees weren't interested in him for some reason, I think.
I see. I was just guessing them because I know they had interest in him at the trade deadline.
Boston could be a good guess if Wandy got that far, I am warming a bit more to the Arizona guess
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions
yep, Rosenthal just said Yankees did not claim him.
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
this is true as well, could also see Boston trying to claim him
most likely some teams just put a claim on him to block him from those two teams, even though the guy isn’t that great.
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Angels perhaps?
Would have to be a team with a more pitcher friendly park I would think. Tigers could be a possibilty too.
not bad guesses
just making a list of teams that could use an extra arm for the playoff push:
Boston
New York
Los Angeles
Detroit
Arizona
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought that too
But I think he’s got 33 million left on his deal right? I don’t think we’d spend that on Wandy
I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful
$24 million in the next two years
plus an option for ’14.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
but why? is he really that much better than Narveson?
unless Wandy or Narveson were moved to the bullpen. and of course I don’t Attanasio adding on that salary.
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah exactly
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
welp
Early speculation among rival teams is that WASH is the team that placed claim on Wandy Rodriguez; they need a veteran SP for ’12 rotation.
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Who was the media guy who said the Nats should trade Strasburg for Oswalt?
Maybe that’s their plan to make a 2012 run.
Get a ife broseph
Ha, it was Steve Phillips
They need to bring him on to make this happen!
Nats in 2012!
Get a ife broseph
I think the media would be upset
to hear that you’re including Phillips in their lot.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
Don't blame me
Blame ESPN
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Trying to jack up their payroll
without actually adding much value.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
For that big push of theirs next year...
I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful
that's from Olney
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Um, why wouldn't pretty much everyone want Wandy?
Seriously, am I in the minority on this? I’d claim him if I could just for the extra lefty down the stretch, and leght him fight for a rotation spot next spring. He’s under contract through 2014? Wait, this guy was on waivers?? I don’t get it
by nullacct on Aug 23, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
as far as being on waivers, most non-contending teams put most of their players on waivers to see what they can get for them, there's no risk in it, which is why the Padres put a guy like Bell on it
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok, so there's no intent at all to let him go
They’ll pull him back and then use the claim as a starting point to try and make a deal?
They could
Don’t know what the Astros financial situation is like, but between declining attendance and an ownership change, they might be willing to let him go for nothing in return.
Get a ife broseph
New owner wants to cut payroll, and pretty significantly, from what I've heard.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
His contract mostly
He’s due $12m a year. The Brewers signing him would seriously restrict any other off-seasonon signings, and spending an additional $12m on a SP when all 5 rotation guys will be back doesn’t make a ton of sense.
Get a ife broseph
I may be way off here
but couldn’t the Brewers pick him up, hoping to give up very little since the Astros are just looking to shed payroll? Then, we have an extra arm for the rest of this season, and come next season, we can let him compete, or probably just trade him for something similar to what we gave up. It’s a sizable contract, but not crazy.
by dickie_thon on Aug 23, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe
I just don’t see them wanting to spend more money on the rotation next year, especially when they’ll need to pay all the raises to Marcum/Weeks/Hart/etc, while also needing a new SS, 1B and bullpen help.
They might be able to dump him, but that would be risky. What if he gets hurt in September? That’d be a disaster.
Get a ife broseph
His contract isn't that "cheap"
$10M next season, $13M in 2013 and $13M team option in 2014 (which becomes a player option if he’s traded).
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
Say Washington did claim Wandy
They’d have to be going after Prince then too, as they’re clearly not F’ing around with the 2012 season
Get a ife broseph
interesting
#BlueJays press conference at 330 ET. No confirmation on whether it’s about Wandy. They have had interest. #Astros #MLB
per Rosenthal
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 2:06 PM CDT reply actions
so looks like the movie I posted below this is what that press conference is for?
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
and another movie today
@Gambo620 John Gambadoro
The Diamondbacks have traded 2b Kelly Johnson to Toronto for 2b Aaron Hill and SS John McDonald.
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 2:08 PM CDT reply actions
I think I'll skip that one
and just rent Major League again. :)
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
haha oops, awesome spelling by me
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Braun and Fielder are leading the NL in R and RBI, Braun close to overtaking Reyes for AVG
What sucks is that they are probably going to split pro-Brewers voters in the MVP ballot.
"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder
What really sucks is being Matt Kemp
and looking at all this like “fuck why does my team suck so hard?”
by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
That only sucks if you're counting on Tom H. to vote for you
EVERYONE knows you can’t have an MVP come from a non-playoff team.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Kemp had better not get any votes if the season finishes like it is now.
Braun’s numbers are all better across the board except for PA, because of that stretch of games he missed with his injury.
"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder
Also
Greinke has 128 IP now – more than Dillon Gee and Carlos Carrasco, but while they show up as “qualified leaders” in Fangraphs season pitching stats, he doesn’t.
I wanna sort columns and see Greinkapotamus’s name show up at the top, damnit!
That's weird
It also cannot be GS, as Cueto is also showing up too.
Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.
It's an anti-Greinke (or pro-Roy Halladay) conspiracy!
Maybe they base it on ABs against? I couldn’t find that stat.
by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Is it not based on a number of inning pitched ratio to games your team has played
The Brewers have played more games than the Mets 130 to 127 for example
Nationals not the claiming team for Wandy
per Rosenthal
#Nationals not claiming team on Wandy. Team still not known. Deal must be completed by 1p p.m. ET on Thursday. #MLB
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 2:19 PM CDT reply actions
Maybe thinking longer term
and were worried that the Giants or D’Backs were likely to put in a claim on him.
hopefully
I don’t understand the Rockies. Trade Ubaldo, trade for Wandy
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
oh I definitely agree about that. It's just odd to me that they trade Jiminez and his team-friendly contract and are essentially replacing him with Wandy if they go through with the deal. It's just odd to me.
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Ubaldo is owed $18m through 2014, compared with Wandy's $36m
Say the Rockies give up a low-level prospect for him. In that case, they’ve essentially given up $18m and Ubaldo and gotten Wandy, White, and Pomeranz.
Not sure I’d be crazy about that deal, but if White and/or Pomeranz pan out and Wandy doesn’t completely bomb, that could turn out pretty well for the Rockies.
by Cheeseandcorn on Aug 23, 2011 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure could.
It just seems like the type of move people like us talk about — i.e., move a very good and reasonably priced piece for a couple of stud prospects, then bring in another good and high-priced arm — but that very rarely happens in the real world.
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
It does make some sense for Colorado
If, as Olney says, they’ve determined that no decent FA pitcher is going to sign with them.
by Cheeseandcorn on Aug 23, 2011 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Wandy has been extremely consistent the past 4 years
from an xFIP or SIERA point of view. He’s a solid 3.6-3.7 ERA guy year in and year out.
by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Absolutely
because, in all honesty, Jimenez has only really had the one great year.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I would go with 2010
2009 was pretty great too.
I don’t like him. Its infuriating watching him pitch.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah I'm being too rough on him
There’s just something about him that I don’t like. I think I feel like any second he’s just going to turn into Derrick Turnbow with his 99 MPH fastball and zero command.
But, yeah, I’d have taken any of those three years’ productivity.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
he has been getting hit pretty hard in the AL since his trade
Every man must believe in something, I believe I'll have another drink.
Disappointing, to say the least.
Not surprising though, so the disappointment I feel is really just my fault.
Ah well.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Aug 23, 2011 5:06 PM CDT reply actions
It is your fault, and you should be disappointed. You know better than to reply fail.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
I wasn't replying to anyone. It's more of a general observation.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Aug 23, 2011 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions
You have my shoulder to cry on.
I’LL BE THERE FOR YOU TSSC! DON’T GO EMO ON ME!
That dog just won't hunt.
by Bush League All Star on Aug 23, 2011 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs










































