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Around SBN: Ryder Hesjedal Wins Giro d'Italia

Tuesday's Frosty Mug

Contrary to popular belief, Ryan Braun and the Brewers can't beat the Pirates with their eyes closed.

Some things to read while panic sets in.

Despite the fact that they lost a game against the Pirates for the first time all year last night, it's another pretty good day to be a Brewer fan. Here's a quick rundown of this morning's excitement:

It wasn't that long ago that the Brewers were looking up at the Pirates in the NL Central standings. @STATS_MLB has a pretty clear illustration of what's happened since:

Team OPS Against Before 7/25 OPS Against Since
Brewers .714 .579
Pirates .706 .836

Ryan Braun hit his 25th home run in yesterday's first game, and now needs just five homers and four stolen bases to become the second 30/30 player in franchise history and the first since 1970. Tyler Lockman of FS Wisconsin has more on the pursuit.

If not for one awful inning yesterday the Brewers might have had a doubleheader sweep. Tom Haudricourt has a recap of the disaster in the seventh. Zack Greinke, to his credit, didn't blame luck for the bad frame. Here's what he told Adam McCalvy regarding Josh Harrison's bloop that drove in the winning run:

"Those hits happen. That's why strikeouts are the best thing to do."

Other notes from the field:

The two teams play a more traditional single game tonight, and Spencer Fordin of MLB.com has the preview. We're coming down to the wire for the Prognostikeggers regular season, so don't forget to get your predictions in. The Pirates will need to make a roster move before the game to activate starting pitcher Ross Ohlendorf from the DL.

Meanwhile, the Bucs will need another spot starter for tomorrow: Kevin Correia was scheduled to start but has been placed on the DL with an oblique strain.

Marco Estrada is making what will likely be his final start for a while today: With Chris Narveson healthy(ish) he'll return to the long relief role in the bullpen. To his credit, he said all the right things to Adam McCalvy about the transition.

Despite yesterday's rare loss, the Brewers are still 23-4 in their last 27 games. Trenni Kusnierek has a look at the question many of us have asked at one point or another recently: Is this team this hot, or this good?

At least once each day lately (and frequently more often) I see someone asking the same question: "What is that thing (insert Brewer here) is doing after hits?" In an effort to avoid having to explain it every single day for the rest of the year, here's a primer. It's called "Beast Mode." Ron Roenicke doesn't like it. Mitch Stetter's son does it.

Even after the Brewers' recent hot streak, they're still not getting much respect in one corner of the web: For Baseball Junkies says the Crew has the fourth best pitching staff among NL contenders.

Another day, another Prince Fielder story: MLB Trade Rumors has a look at the reasons why every MLB team might pass on the slugger in free agency.

In the minors:

In power rankings:

If you haven't yet, please take a moment today to vote in the BCB Tracking Poll. It'll be open through the end of the day today and results will go up sometime after that.

Around baseball:

Indians: Placed DH Travis Hafner on the DL with a strained right foot.
Orioles: Placed reliever Jason Berken on the DL with a shoulder strain.
Phillies: Placed shortstop Jimmy Rollins on the DL with a strained groin.
Twins: Placed pitcher Nick Blackburn on the DL with a forearm strain.
Yankees: Designated pitcher Aaron Laffey for assignment.

This has already been mentioned in this morning's Around the NL Central and other places, but it's too good not to bring up again: Cardinals outfielder Matt Holliday had to leave last night's game (an eventual loss) after a moth flew into his ear and got stuck. Jeff Sullivan of Baseball Nation has a look at the event in pictures. The moth was eventually extracted. Here's what I'd like to know: If removing a moth with tweezers is all that needed to be done, why did Holliday have to come out of the game? That seems like something the trainers should've been able to do on the field.

Last week I mentioned this day was coming, and now it's here. Late last night, the Astros became baseball's first mathematically eliminated team in 2011.

I'm not sure if it showed up on any of the highlight shows (I didn't watch them last night), but yesterday's best catch was made in the stands in Atlanta.

Elsewhere in impressive feats in other games: Mariners outfielder Wily Mo Pena hit a ball last night that will likely turn out to be the hardest hit home run of the MLB season. Hit Tracker estimates its speed off the bat at 117.5 miles per hour. Prince Fielder has the three hardest hit home runs by a Brewer this year, and they're all between 116 and 117.

I've been largely avoiding the daily coverage of the Frank McCourt mess in LA, but this note was too good to pass up: McCourt's lawyers are currently making more money than any Dodger player.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to send another package.

Drink up.

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Holliday

Looking at those pictures, it appears he’s in a huge amount of pain. But upon further review, I think it is more likely revulsion. That’s disgusting.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 11:30 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm not one to believe in a jinx

but the SI cover makes me nervous

"...just throw that pill over the plate and I'll make it happen." - Tony Plush

by thefreewheelin76 on Aug 23, 2011 11:41 AM CDT reply actions  

Why?

I think just about every team who won their respective sport’s championship was on the cover at some point during the season.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 23, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Because superstitious people get nervous when their team that hasn't performed as well as it currently is in a generation are featured on a national magazine cover.

I don’t think that’s too hard to fathom.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

The best part is that the Brewers will certainly fall off a bit from their recent run of great baseball

Just because no team can that pace for that long, and some will blame the “SI Curse”

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

This

I guess I’m not nervous about it, and the Crew definitely deserve the attention. I guess I’d rather have the team more under the radar. Though that’s pretty hard when they are winning like this.

"...just throw that pill over the plate and I'll make it happen." - Tony Plush

by thefreewheelin76 on Aug 23, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I suppose a case could be made

for ‘who knows how the team will respond when under the national media spotlight’. Although they’ll have to learn to live with it if they want to be in the playoffs for any extended period of time.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

Its pretty much the same thing as ‘never talk about the no-hitter when its happening’, and how Johnny has to wear his replica Yount jersey with two sweatbands on his left fore-arm and his khaki Gap cargo shorts every time Narveson pitches on a Tuesday, because they always win.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Being nervous is one thing

I’m just not aware of there being an SI curse. Now the Chunky Soup curse… that’s real. :)

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 23, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

C'mon

Peyton Hillis is definitely going to reproduce his effectiveness from last year, there’s no doubt!

by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I love that half the reason Peyton Hillis won that

Is because Packers fans were afraid to vote Rodgers in for fear of the madden Curse

by uwbadgers on Aug 23, 2011 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Eh

he’s the first white running back with 1000 yards since, like, 1985 (seriously) – he can have his day in the sun.

(to get a tan I mean)

by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

I'm not saying he's not a deserving candidate

But most of the people I know who voted, voted for him over Rodgers purely for the reason of the curse.

I’m sure there were plenty of people who voted for him because he was actually good, but he definitely got a boost from the packers fans

by uwbadgers on Aug 23, 2011 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Except for when the Brewers owned both Lee and Halladay

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmm

/checks article ranking NL contenders’ pitching
/sees rationale is based on ERA and W-L
/closes tab

by MillerParkSouth on Aug 23, 2011 11:47 AM CDT reply actions   2 recs

I enjoyed the comment about the Atlanta starters
If not for injury and losing a few starts, Jurrjens would have been another contender for NL Cy Young.

If not for pitching poorly in some games, Doug Davis was also a contender.

by proachinf on Aug 23, 2011 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

I can't tell if Greinke is gracious or accustomed to even worse conditions

But I haven’t heard him say one even-slightly negative comment about the defense playing behind him, and he takes full responsibility for all of the runs that score on his watch, despite seeming to suffer more from failed team defense than the rest of the starters. Super classy, imo. The guy’s got confidence and character.

by nullacct on Aug 23, 2011 11:52 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

He's got his FIP and xFIP tattooed on his eyelids.

"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder

by SRB on Aug 23, 2011 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Beast Mode...

Not the coolest jesture I’ve seen, and certainly seems like something to which STL would take exception.

by Yomes on Aug 23, 2011 12:07 PM CDT reply actions  

If anyone is looking for their daily dose of "how is this guy writing for a major sports news source"

You can check out this ridiculous piece on how poor poor Chicago is jealous of Wisconsin.

Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."

by GoGregGo on Aug 23, 2011 12:11 PM CDT reply actions  

Ugh yeah that's awful.
Understand that Chicagoans see Wisconsin only as a great place to get Christmas trees, or maybe to hit a homey festival. And it’s a little insulting to be beaten up by a state that is entirely surrounded by white picket fences.

what

by MillerParkSouth on Aug 23, 2011 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

What a jackass

Didn’t read the article (and don’t want to), but just that comment makes my blood boil. And I don’t even live in Wisconsin anymore.

Brewers fan lost in South Carolina.

by SCBrewer on Aug 23, 2011 12:26 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Big city alert! He probably lives in Aurora or something.

Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but the article suggests that he was born in 1985.

That was nothing, though. Not one major Chicago team won a championship my entire childhood.

Except for, you know, being a kid for the most dominant NBA franchise in basketball history.

"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder

by SRB on Aug 23, 2011 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't read the article, but I skipped to the comments section

I like this one:

“the entire state is surrounded by white picket fences” WTF ?
I am from New Orleans, LA but have been to both Chicago and Milwaukee several times. I found Chicago to be stuffy, unfriendly snobbish people who could not be friendly unless there was a buck involved for them. Milwaukee was friendly and welcoming in everyway. As for the surrounded by picket fences theory, might I suggest you visit the folks at the Harley-Davidson factories in Milwaukee, they will be glad to show you where the picket fence goec for folks from Chicago…..

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Also

you should check out his bio on his blog. He sure does think a lot of himself, this one.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

But, how does he feel about tennis?

I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful

by Michael M on Aug 23, 2011 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also,
…the band wore "corduroy pants, lumberjack shirts and mackinaws, hunting caps and high boots.’’ … It’s hard to respect that. More important, why do the people in Wisconsin still dress that way?

Apparently he has somehow managed to avoid the gigantic hipster population of Chicago?

by CoreySLC on Aug 23, 2011 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

It makes me laugh when Chicagoans make fun of Wisconsinites

Hey, Chicago, ever check out the rest of the state you live in?

I love Chicago and have lived here for 8 years but c’mon, if you want to go apples-to-apples, let’s look at the barren expanse of suburbia, interstate and farmland that is the state of Illinois outside of Chicago.

by MillerParkSouth on Aug 23, 2011 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not to mention

As much as they like to make fun of Wisconsin, they love to vacation up here.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 23, 2011 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

RIght, I mean

of the 12.8 million people that live in Illinois, 8.4 million of them live in Chicago and the other 6 surrounding counties.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was only half-watching yesterday's evening game

However, I have a question about it. How was Greinke’s overall performance last night? Did he just run into the one bad inning? Was he missing something last night? Did Frankie De La Cruz make it look worse than it actually was?

Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector

by -JP- on Aug 23, 2011 12:20 PM CDT reply actions  

The first ER should have been unearned but wasn’t (missed double play), the seventh inning was a combination of flukiness, bad defense, and Joe West. I think 3-4 of the runs charged to him were inherited runs that scored off FDLC. Greinke wasn’t pitching at his best in the seventh, but 7 ER or whatever it ended up being is just absurd.

"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder

by SRB on Aug 23, 2011 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Glad Joe West took it upon himself to show Greinke and the Brewers who's boss

I know I go to every game to watch the umpires. I’m glad he takes his job of altering the outcomes of games so seriously.< /sarcasm>

Founder of the BCBCU - Est. 2011

by ecocd on Aug 23, 2011 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

He looked pretty good.

The home run was a bad pitch. The rbi blooper was a great pitch that the batter barely got a piece of. The other runs in that inning were basically a result of weak grounders getting through, or FDLC’s lack of control.

http://www.mlbsoup.com

by tcyoung on Aug 23, 2011 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

True

but I don’t think I’d characterize that time as being “a very long time” ago.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 23, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

OT: Pat Summit was diagnosed with early-onset dementia

I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful

by Michael M on Aug 23, 2011 1:05 PM CDT reply actions  

Here’s an article on it for anyone interested

I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful

by Michael M on Aug 23, 2011 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Earthquake on the East Coast

Assuming the game will go on as scheduled, but wouldn’t shock me if they PPD it if they want to inspect the stadium.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 1:06 PM CDT reply actions  

From people I work with out there (East Coast)

No one has felt anything. Probably not a big deal

by backtocali on Aug 23, 2011 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, not big

5.8 at the epicenter in VA. The Pentagon is evacuating out of precaution. I’m sure they’ll inspect large structures like baseball stadiums.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

My facebook is blowing up about it.

People felt it from Connecticut to Virginia and who knows where else. Not a destructive quake, but had a wide range of “I felt it!”

by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

From a facebook friend

“The cubicle walls fell. I work on 9 floor and 60y.o. coworkers were flying down the stairs as fast as me. I’m going home.”

He’s kind of a pussy though, so take that with a grain of salt.

by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here's a thought

Do you believe the Greinke trade is turning out as a beneficial one?

He has put up a 2.9 WAR season so far, while Alcides Escobar has 1.6, and using MLEquivalencies, Lorenzo Cain would have probably been worth at least a 2 WAR. Not to mention the fact they make the league minimum and the loss of Jake Odirizzi.

The division lead is 9 games right now. Greinke hasnt really made the difference.

My thought was that it was a pretty even trade, value wise at the time it was made, and you cant of course 20/20 vision a trade, but was this trade worth it in the end, if the two MLB ready guys you gave away would produce the exact same amount as the player you acquired, and for $13.5 million less?

by backtocali on Aug 23, 2011 1:10 PM CDT reply actions  

Yeah

Don’t think the Brewers will win the division by 9 games, so Greinke’s WAR will likely matter.

There’s also the issue of the playoffs, and having a legit top of the rotation starter is big in that regard.

I’m also hesitant to put too much stock into Escobar’s WAR, as it is largely based on a 125 game sample of UZR, which is hard to treat as a hard number.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Give me a break

Ive been on vacation. I dont read the Mug as intently when I am not at work. I actually did not even realize Greinke had such a bad game last night. Know they lost, did not know details. In the last two weeks, I have probably watched a total of about 4 innings of Brewer baseball.

by backtocali on Aug 23, 2011 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

That brought a smile to my face

I’ll get it started on its way to green. Once TSSC and some of the other see it its well on its way.

by backtocali on Aug 23, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm glad you get such joy from being so disliked

I’d like to get something started too. Can we get a mod to get rid of this guy for good?

I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful

by Michael M on Aug 23, 2011 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Seconded.

But trolling is allowed in these parts, so…

… until you find a really big ass billy goat gruff, we’ll have to live with him.

"fortunate, but also lucky"

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Aug 23, 2011 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Greinke has been pedestrian for a pitching God

But he’ll be playing in October, unlike the bearded one.

by nullacct on Aug 23, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fair enough, it just seems that you disappear when the Brewers are doing amazing and return any time something bad happens.

As for how the trade has worked out, assuming your 2 WAR projection for Cain is based on him starting everyday in CF:

Zack Greinke: +2.9 fWAR (21 GS)
Brewers CFs: +4.7 fWAR
Brewers SSs: +0.3 fWAR
Total: +7.9 fWAR

Lorenzo Cain: +2.0 fWAR?
Alcides Escobar: +1.6 fWAR
Mystery pitcher: X.X fWAR
Total – pitcher: +3.6 fWAR

Could the Brewers have gotten a random pitcher that would put up more than +3.3 fWAR in 21 starts? Doubtful.

"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder

by SRB on Aug 23, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

+4.3 in 21 starts*

"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder

by SRB on Aug 23, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or if we hadn't gotten anyone

it would’ve been Estrada as the 5th, with Narveson as the 4th, if you want to extrapolate that out too.

by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

In all fairness

This past week or so is the only time all year (including offseason) that I have not been around.

I look at fangraphs for WAR. So using that, it would look more like:

Greinke 2.9 WAR
Betancourt 0 WAR
Morgan 2.8 WAR
total 5.7 WAR

Escobar 1.6 WAR
Cain 2? WAR
Pavano 2 WAR
total 5.6 WAR and $5million richer, and still have Odirizzi and two controllable, projectible players for 5 more years, and still in first place.

by backtocali on Aug 23, 2011 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well if I had my way on that issue

He would be on the White Sox right now, and Daniel Hudson would be in the Brewer starting rotation, and Davan Viciedo would be knocking on the door to the big league club while tearing up AAA.

by backtocali on Aug 23, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fielder 4.2 WAR, Hudson 4.0 WAR

And $15 million more on the books, controllable player for 5 years, and huge impact bat prospect ready for promotion.

by backtocali on Aug 23, 2011 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's build a team with the best WAR possible for the least money

Positions don’t matter, that’s for the manager to deal with.

by uwbadgers on Aug 23, 2011 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Can Hudson play SS?

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Only if that jetski had “Panty Dropper” painted on the side, Kenny Powers style.

"I agree but dont agree"

by juggernaut400 on Aug 23, 2011 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Unless either Escobar or Cain learned to pitch sometime this season

then, yeah, it was a beneficial trade.

You left out the fact that Jeffress got demoted to AA, BTW.

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Eh

I figured him as a throw in in that deal.

But 3 wins is still 3 wins. No matter the source. One of the detriments could have been that they did not go out and acquire Morgan then.

by backtocali on Aug 23, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

The 3 wins is built on a lot of assumptions

The assumption that Cain is a 2 WAR player using MLE (which has its own issues), that UZR perfectly judges how many wins Escobar has been worth, etc. Its somewhat misguided to look at Fangraphs and conclude “3 wins is 3 wins”

Plus, like I mentioned above, playoff pitching is pretty important.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think you can judge this trade in terms of WAR

unless WAR is able to account for the fact that Greinke’s pitched into the 6th inning in all but three of his starts (two of which came right after he came off the DL) and saved the bullpen from being ravaged by the likes of Dave Bush and Doug Davis.

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, you can probably assume that

Carl Pavano would have been the target had the Greinke trade not worked out.

$5mm less, he is a workhorse too, and you add up Cain, Escobar and Pavano, and you are $5mm richer, and have a farm system in better shape, and SS and CF for 5 more years.

And youre still in first place.

by backtocali on Aug 23, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Now we're assuming FA signings?

This keeps getting weirder and weirder

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, and then you have Carl Pavano starting for you in the playoffs.

No thanks.

"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder

by SRB on Aug 23, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Carl Pavano leads the AL in hits allowed and has a K/9 of 3.9.

I’m hard on Greinke, but that’s an apples to oranges comparison if I’ve ever seen one.

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

You know who else was a workhorse?

Jeff Suppan and Braden Looper.

And we know how well the team did with those two guys in the rotation.

I seriously doubt the Brewers would be in first place if they didn’t have Greinke. Having Pavano or another SP of his caliber would’ve put more work on the bullpen to finish games.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 23, 2011 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Not to mention the fact that we get Greinke in 2012 too, and if you even remotely trust his xFIP it still suggests he should be considered one of the most elite pitchers in baseball going forward. Huge season from Greinke next year could do a lot to offset the loss of Prince.

"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder

by SRB on Aug 23, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good points

Just throwing it out there from a numbers standpoint. As a fun excercise.

Think about it, you could even have not traded away Lawrie, and still had been in first place, and then have Lawrie, Odirizzi, Cain and Escobar to offset Fielder departure, for an infinitely cheaper cost.

by backtocali on Aug 23, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

The only way your scenario works

is if we’d have foreseen that Volquez was going to implode, the Reds were going to pull a 2009 Brewers, and the Cardinals were going to lose their ace in spring training.

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Think about it

we could’ve drafted Albert Pujols in the 12th round of the 1999 draft, and then never had to deal with Fielder in the first place!

by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah but Pujols was drafted as a 3B.

"People ask me what I do in the winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."- Rogers Hornsby

by icecreamman on Aug 23, 2011 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wait

So now you are saying we replace Greinke with Pavano, and then Marcum with…? Somehow I don’t know if we are in first place in your scenario

by uwbadgers on Aug 23, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pavano again.

He’s a workhorse. He can go on two days’ rest.

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Perfect World Scenario

Lucroy
Hart
Weeks
McGehee
Escobar
Braun
Cain
Gomez/Morgan

Gallardo
Pavano
Hudson
Wolf
Narveson

That team performs almost the same as what is on the field now.

by backtocali on Aug 23, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Personally, I like the part where Braun bats 7th

With Escobar protecting McGehee in the power slot. Hilarity

by nullacct on Aug 23, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think he is listing it as defensive position...

rather than batting order. :)

Idk I am tired and need energy drinkage so I don’t know if you are being /sarc. :P

That dog just won't hunt.

by Bush League All Star on Aug 23, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

ayep

But swapping Yuni and Prince for Cain and Escobar isn’t a wash – WAR is earned in context. Everyone in the lineup owes part of their offensive WAR to Prince in some way. And that rotation is mediocre. That team doesn’t go 77-53 for damn sure.

by nullacct on Aug 23, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Its not like you say there

Its swapping Yuni/Prince/Greinke for Escobar/Cain/Hudson/Pavano…the big question mark would be Cain. And again, you are a point where you have $20 million additional to spend on anything you might want to acquire to improve and instead of having the worst farm system in baseball, you have a really good one with 3 top notch guys on the horizon in Odirizzi, Lawrie, and Viciedo.

by backtocali on Aug 23, 2011 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cool.

I want to spend the $20 million on Greinke.

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Damn. I knew I shouldn't have spent all my time hunting and fording every river.

Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".

by Yar Nivek on Aug 23, 2011 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

What would I spend the $20MM on?

To be a playoff team I would need a medium upgrade at 5-6 positions, there isn’t a pig ticket free agency hole to fill. That team is worse to work with because it’s loaded with mediocrity.

by nullacct on Aug 23, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

This

I made my first comment without really looking too much at it.

In what world does Cain + Escobar = Prince + Yuni
and
Greinke + Marcum = Hudson + Pavano

by uwbadgers on Aug 23, 2011 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

In the world where WAR is used solely to determine wins.

They don’t even play the game anymore. They just add up each team’s WAR and give the WS title to whomever has the highest number.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 23, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Point is

he gives us a real chance in the playoffs, much better than having to run Wolf out there. Also, if we kept Cain, we wouldn’t have gotten Nyjer Morgan for virtually nothing and his production has been very helpful.

by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

"Oh crap, the Brewers are 9 games up in the division."

“How else can I piss in the cheerios? I know, point out that because they’re so far up, they didn’t need to make all those trades.”

Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".

by Yar Nivek on Aug 23, 2011 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

from Rosenthal
Ken Rosenthal
Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Wandy Rodriguez CLAIMED on waivers. Team not yet known. #Astros #MLB

I am too drunk to taste this chicken.

by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 1:14 PM CDT reply actions  

I guess the White Sox

I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful

by Michael M on Aug 23, 2011 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

They dropped Edwin Jackson mostly because of payroll

Would be surprised if they took on Wandy’s salary.

I’ll guess Diamondbacks, though admittedly don’t know much about their payroll situation.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good point on the Sox. I was just thinking back to Alex Rios

I think the D-backs would be a good guess. I’ll also throw the Indians in there

I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful

by Michael M on Aug 23, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ah!

Rosenthal says it wasn’t the D-Backs. The mystery continues….

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm gonna guess the Yankees

their playoff rotation is going to be weak, but of course Wandy isn’t that great either. Diamondbacks are a good guess too.

I am too drunk to taste this chicken.

by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I doubt that the Yankees were able to put in a claim.

Probably never got to them.

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

this is true as well, could also see Boston trying to claim him

most likely some teams just put a claim on him to block him from those two teams, even though the guy isn’t that great.

I am too drunk to taste this chicken.

by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Angels perhaps?

Would have to be a team with a more pitcher friendly park I would think. Tigers could be a possibilty too.

by backtocali on Aug 23, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

not bad guesses

just making a list of teams that could use an extra arm for the playoff push:
Boston
New York
Los Angeles
Detroit
Arizona

I am too drunk to taste this chicken.

by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Us?

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I thought that too

But I think he’s got 33 million left on his deal right? I don’t think we’d spend that on Wandy

I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful

by Michael M on Aug 23, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

$24 million in the next two years

plus an option for ’14.

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

There you go.

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

but why? is he really that much better than Narveson?

unless Wandy or Narveson were moved to the bullpen. and of course I don’t Attanasio adding on that salary.

I am too drunk to taste this chicken.

by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Could use another lefty.

That was my only thought.

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's probably better than Narveson

Not $12m a year better though

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah exactly

I am too drunk to taste this chicken.

by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

welp
Early speculation among rival teams is that WASH is the team that placed claim on Wandy Rodriguez; they need a veteran SP for ’12 rotation.

I am too drunk to taste this chicken.

by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Huh.

Keeps getting weirder.

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sigh

What are they doing?

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ha, it was Steve Phillips

They need to bring him on to make this happen!

Nats in 2012!

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think the media would be upset

to hear that you’re including Phillips in their lot.

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't blame me

Blame ESPN

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Trying to jack up their payroll

without actually adding much value.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 23, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

For that big push of theirs next year...

I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful

by Michael M on Aug 23, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

that's from Olney

I am too drunk to taste this chicken.

by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Um, why wouldn't pretty much everyone want Wandy?

Seriously, am I in the minority on this? I’d claim him if I could just for the extra lefty down the stretch, and leght him fight for a rotation spot next spring. He’s under contract through 2014? Wait, this guy was on waivers?? I don’t get it

by nullacct on Aug 23, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Ok, so there's no intent at all to let him go

They’ll pull him back and then use the claim as a starting point to try and make a deal?

by nullacct on Aug 23, 2011 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

They could

Don’t know what the Astros financial situation is like, but between declining attendance and an ownership change, they might be willing to let him go for nothing in return.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

His contract mostly

He’s due $12m a year. The Brewers signing him would seriously restrict any other off-seasonon signings, and spending an additional $12m on a SP when all 5 rotation guys will be back doesn’t make a ton of sense.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

I may be way off here

but couldn’t the Brewers pick him up, hoping to give up very little since the Astros are just looking to shed payroll? Then, we have an extra arm for the rest of this season, and come next season, we can let him compete, or probably just trade him for something similar to what we gave up. It’s a sizable contract, but not crazy.

by dickie_thon on Aug 23, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Maybe

I just don’t see them wanting to spend more money on the rotation next year, especially when they’ll need to pay all the raises to Marcum/Weeks/Hart/etc, while also needing a new SS, 1B and bullpen help.

They might be able to dump him, but that would be risky. What if he gets hurt in September? That’d be a disaster.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

His contract isn't that "cheap"

$10M next season, $13M in 2013 and $13M team option in 2014 (which becomes a player option if he’s traded).

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 23, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Say Washington did claim Wandy

They’d have to be going after Prince then too, as they’re clearly not F’ing around with the 2012 season

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Aug 23, 2011 2:04 PM CDT reply actions  

Wouldn't surprise me.

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

interesting
#BlueJays press conference at 330 ET. No confirmation on whether it’s about Wandy. They have had interest. #Astros #MLB

per Rosenthal

I am too drunk to taste this chicken.

by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 2:06 PM CDT reply actions  

and another movie today
@Gambo620 John Gambadoro
The Diamondbacks have traded 2b Kelly Johnson to Toronto for 2b Aaron Hill and SS John McDonald.

I am too drunk to taste this chicken.

by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 2:08 PM CDT reply actions  

I think I'll skip that one

and just rent Major League again. :)

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 23, 2011 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Twice no less :)

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 23, 2011 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Braun and Fielder are leading the NL in R and RBI, Braun close to overtaking Reyes for AVG

What sucks is that they are probably going to split pro-Brewers voters in the MVP ballot.

"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder

by SRB on Aug 23, 2011 2:12 PM CDT reply actions  

What really sucks is being Matt Kemp

and looking at all this like “fuck why does my team suck so hard?”

by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

That only sucks if you're counting on Tom H. to vote for you

EVERYONE knows you can’t have an MVP come from a non-playoff team.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kemp had better not get any votes if the season finishes like it is now.

Braun’s numbers are all better across the board except for PA, because of that stretch of games he missed with his injury.

"We’re here to win, man. All that fighting stuff, that’s for the birds." - Prince Fielder

by SRB on Aug 23, 2011 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also

Greinke has 128 IP now – more than Dillon Gee and Carlos Carrasco, but while they show up as “qualified leaders” in Fangraphs season pitching stats, he doesn’t.

I wanna sort columns and see Greinkapotamus’s name show up at the top, damnit!

by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 2:18 PM CDT reply actions  

That's weird

It also cannot be GS, as Cueto is also showing up too.

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 23, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's an anti-Greinke (or pro-Roy Halladay) conspiracy!

Maybe they base it on ABs against? I couldn’t find that stat.

by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nationals not the claiming team for Wandy

per Rosenthal

#Nationals not claiming team on Wandy. Team still not known. Deal must be completed by 1p p.m. ET on Thursday. #MLB

I am too drunk to taste this chicken.

by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 2:19 PM CDT reply actions  

INTRIGUE!

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Uh.

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd certainly hope not.

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe thinking longer term

and were worried that the Giants or D’Backs were likely to put in a claim on him.

by Saltire on Aug 23, 2011 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

hopefully

I don’t understand the Rockies. Trade Ubaldo, trade for Wandy

I am too drunk to taste this chicken.

by ThroughBeingCool on Aug 23, 2011 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ubaldo is owed $18m through 2014, compared with Wandy's $36m

Say the Rockies give up a low-level prospect for him. In that case, they’ve essentially given up $18m and Ubaldo and gotten Wandy, White, and Pomeranz.

Not sure I’d be crazy about that deal, but if White and/or Pomeranz pan out and Wandy doesn’t completely bomb, that could turn out pretty well for the Rockies.

by Cheeseandcorn on Aug 23, 2011 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sure could.

It just seems like the type of move people like us talk about — i.e., move a very good and reasonably priced piece for a couple of stud prospects, then bring in another good and high-priced arm — but that very rarely happens in the real world.

We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.

by Rubie Q on Aug 23, 2011 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

It does make some sense for Colorado

If, as Olney says, they’ve determined that no decent FA pitcher is going to sign with them.

by Cheeseandcorn on Aug 23, 2011 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

In a small career sample

He’s pitched well at Coors Field

by nullacct on Aug 23, 2011 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wandy has been extremely consistent the past 4 years

from an xFIP or SIERA point of view. He’s a solid 3.6-3.7 ERA guy year in and year out.

by Archibaldcrane on Aug 23, 2011 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Absolutely

because, in all honesty, Jimenez has only really had the one great year.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would go with 2010

2009 was pretty great too.

I don’t like him. Its infuriating watching him pitch.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah I'm being too rough on him

There’s just something about him that I don’t like. I think I feel like any second he’s just going to turn into Derrick Turnbow with his 99 MPH fastball and zero command.

But, yeah, I’d have taken any of those three years’ productivity.

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

~Doug Melvin

by Charlie Marlow on Aug 23, 2011 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

he has been getting hit pretty hard in the AL since his trade

Every man must believe in something, I believe I'll have another drink.

by pjpaulus on Aug 23, 2011 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Disappointing, to say the least.

Not surprising though, so the disappointment I feel is really just my fault.

Ah well.

"fortunate, but also lucky"

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Aug 23, 2011 5:06 PM CDT reply actions  

You have my shoulder to cry on.

I’LL BE THERE FOR YOU TSSC! DON’T GO EMO ON ME!

That dog just won't hunt.

by Bush League All Star on Aug 23, 2011 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

What?

He’s going to start wearing black eyeliner, a hoodie and tight bluejeans?

Pujols is the Barack Obama of baseball.

by sjlee on Aug 24, 2011 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

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