POLL: How Should We Handle The New JS Paywall?
by Kyle Lobner on Jan 2, 2012 12:00 PM CST
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PrintAs many/most of you have probably heard by now, on Wednesday the Journal Sentinel plans to implement a new digital subscription plan. This new policy will limit your ability to read JS content online unless you're willing to pay $2.35 per week (or pay $2.30/week and take a copy of the Sunday paper).
I've always made an effort to limit the subscriber-only content linked in the Frosty Mug, because I feel like a large portion of you don't pay for content online and likely have no interest in doing so. Personally, I don't subscribe to ESPN Insider, Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus or any other online publications I'd have to pay for*. There's so much freely available content out there that I've never felt the need to spend money on more.
The JS, however, is a key part of the work we do here on a day-to-day basis. Since Milwaukee is a small market and the Brewers are largely un or undercovered by many of the state's news outlets, our only consistently linkable sources of everyday Brewer coverage during the offseason are the JS reporters (primarily Tom Haudricourt and Todd Rosiak) and Adam McCalvy of MLB.com. McCalvy does great work and we're lucky to have him, but his coverage by itself isn't really enough to power the daily news element of the Frosty Mug.
I'd like your help deciding how we proceed here. Vote in the poll below, and feel free to share your thoughts in the comments.
* - I do subscribe to the B-Ref Play Index but that's more of a resource than a publication.
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Can't you
just link to the JSonline article via twitter, and have the mug link point to the tweet? That should technically work, right?
Proudly waving the "Retire Craig Counsell" banner since 2011.
Twitterize me if you dare: @mykenk
That actually wouldn't be a bad would to do it.
I like this idea.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jan 2, 2012 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
I can't believe
that the JS is going to leave that loophole open for long. Are they?
We pull our pants up and do our jobs here.
by Rubie Q on Jan 2, 2012 8:34 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
The NY Times has...
I think.
Proudly waving the "Retire Craig Counsell" banner since 2011.
Twitterize me if you dare: @mykenk
I bet they will.
Most everyone else with the JS’ model (a “metered model”) has, including the Times, as Mykenk said. To close that loophole is to completely kill whatever social media presence you already had, and even the JS isn’t dumb enough to do that.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jan 3, 2012 8:47 AM CST up reply actions
I haven’t read anything about what content will fall under the “pay to play” umbrella, but if it’s on the blog (where Tom posts most of his stuff before fleshing it out for publication), I wouldn’t envision it being there.
I think I’ll go read what’s going to be covered…
"The Milwaukee Brewers' line score is starting to resemble an international phone number" - Pittsburgh Pirates Radio during 20-0 shutout - 4-22-10
If
the Bernies Crew fanblog is going to be behind the paywall as they say it is, I’d be shocked if Tom H’s blog isn’t.
Proudly waving the "Retire Craig Counsell" banner since 2011.
Twitterize me if you dare: @mykenk
Yeah, I'm also under the assumption that the beat writers' blog will be behind the paywall.
In fact, it’d be ridiculous to have a paywall if you’re not going to put stuff like that behind it.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
For whatever reason, I do pay for ESPN Insider
Though I generally do read some of the pay articles on there, and sometimes read the magazine as well that I get on a monthly basis.
However, that’s $5 a month. The JSOnline subscription would be more than double that.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
Sorry, mistake in that post
I get the magazine every other week.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
I do too
but that’s because I got the magazine for 6 bucks a year.
Proudly waving the "Retire Craig Counsell" banner since 2011.
Twitterize me if you dare: @mykenk
Now I'm starting to feel bad that I actually pay $5 a month.
Still, it’s in the cheap enough range for me.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
Exactly.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Jan 2, 2012 5:56 PM CST up reply actions
Me too.
I got a 3 year subscription for like $15 or whatever. I just hate that they I’m having to get my Insider credentials reset every year.
"The Milwaukee Brewers' line score is starting to resemble an international phone number" - Pittsburgh Pirates Radio during 20-0 shutout - 4-22-10
I've only got Insider.
And that’s mostly due to Keith Law & the 3yrs for $6 sub I found off slickdeals. And The Rag never makes it in the house, straight to the recycle bin.
JSO will not be getting my money, at least not right away. I could see picking up the Sunday down the line sub cuz you can recoup the cost with coupons.
Your 2011 BCB Jan Brady League Overlord
There's supposed to be a way you can arrange for the magazine to be sent to troops overseas or something.
If you’re just taking it because you have to and recycling it, at least that’d save space in your recycle bin.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Also, you reminded me of another side note I left out of the post.
Charging more for “no paper” than “Sunday paper” is a terrible statement regarding the value of a Sunday newspaper.
I recognize that they make money when someone takes a Sunday paper, because of the ads, but by basically paying people to take it they’re implying that it has no value.
If I were an advertiser in the Sunday paper, I’d be calling BS. Distribution numbers are going to go up, but they’re going to go up on the backs of people who took the paper simply because it was cheaper than not and recycled or trashed it without reading.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
But the paper (and the ads) will still be in more people's houses than it likely is now.
Even if someone only goes through the ads on a periodic basis instead of every week, they’re still getting more bang for their buck than they are now.
Charging less for the Sunday paper/online subscription package isn’t an acknowledgment that the Sunday paper has no value, its an acknowledgment that they make money by other means (i.e., ads in the Sunday paper) so they don’t need to charge as much to make a profit.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 2, 2012 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
Fair
But those new readers still aren’t as valuable as the old ones.
Let’s say the previous Sunday circulation was 100,000. That’s 100,000 papers distributed to people who bought it because they’re interested in reading the paper. It’s a legit number.
Let’s sat Sunday circulation goes up 25% to 125,000. The newspaper will claim that 25% more people are seeing the ads, so they’re worth 25% more. But the reality is that a big chunk of those people are taking the paper because it’s cheaper than not taking the paper. So those 25,000 readers, on a per-reader basis, are worth significantly less than the 100,000 who actually wanted to read it.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
For a while
The JS was charging more for our Sunday subscription than the guy who was selling papers across the street. One of the many reasons we canceled our subscription.
REWIND YOURSELF!
Side note that didn't make the post, but is worth discussing.
Short of writing and mailing me a check, putting Brewer content behind a paywall might be the best thing the JS could do for BCB. As spring training approaches and people want Brewer coverage, a large portion of them are going to balk at a digital subscription and go look elsewhere for content. They’ll end up all over the place, of course, but a percentage of them will almost certainly come here.
Maybe I should send the JS a thank you note for practically gift wrapping a big chunk of their market share.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
by Kyle Lobner on Jan 2, 2012 12:53 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
I think a lot of people don't know to look elsewhere
I saw a comment over there looking for winter ball coverage… :)
Right, but once the JS goes behind the wall a fair number of them will have incentives to look for more free coverage.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
PREPARE FOR THE CATACLYSM!
AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH OV!
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Jan 2, 2012 5:58 PM CST up reply actions
Rec'd Kyle.
That dog just won't hunt.
by Bush League All Star on Jan 3, 2012 4:23 PM CST up reply actions
My lowly two cents
If the JS had better writers it might be a consideration. But that is not the case.
If BCB needs donations for either its own site or to purchase access to JS content I would be willing to contribute.
For the record I pay for Packer Insider but that is ONLY because Bob McGinn is awesome.
The JS has fine writers
…wait, you’re not talking about their local news department.
Actually, that’s the problem; there’s nothing wrong with the rest of the paper but I’m not local so I have no interest in the rest of the paper. The idea of a for-pay Packers section is fine; everyone in the state and a lot of people outside of it want to read about the Packers. I may be willing to pay for a Brewers-only section, or the sports only; not so much for the local content that won’t do me much informational good in Minneapolis.
I'll second this, living in Appleton.
The only thing I read in the JS is Brewer coverage.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
Add in a third as well for living in Madison
Once in a while, they have a really good article in local coverage, but we’re talking about once every few months. Beyond the Brewers blog, I really don’t have a reason to go there.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
I'm going to pay...
… but it doesn’t have much to do with the Brewers coverage. It’s entirely because of Bob McGinn, who I’m convinced is one of the top 5 football beat writers in the country. I don’t like the fact that I’ll be paying more for the new package than I have been for Packer’s Insider, but it’s still worth it in my opinion.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 2, 2012 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
Well maybe I'm wrong...
… but I was assuming their new subscription service was effectively ending the Insider and you had to pay the new (higher) subscription fee for the entire site to get to McGinn’s stuff.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 2, 2012 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
That's how I interpret it.
Proudly waving the "Retire Craig Counsell" banner since 2011.
Twitterize me if you dare: @mykenk
for the record
The JS almost always has subscription deals. They are always in my Pick n Save trying to sign folks up.
I pay $4.99/mo and get the Wednesday and Sunday paper and bc of that will get behind the paywall.
Most times I don’t even read the paper, but eh – it $5/mo and we’ll certainly keep it now with the paywall.
I bet if you call and say “I heard about this deal…” you’d get it.
Just a thought
by Nicole Haase on Jan 2, 2012 1:11 PM CST via mobile reply actions
The money really isn't the issue.
I’m going to subscribe, probably via the Sunday option.
I’m more concerned about how others are handling it, because that impacts how I write the Mug.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
I personally don't even bother to click the JSO links
That being said, I voted for option 3
I got goons.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Jan 2, 2012 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
To be honest when I see there is breaking Brewers news I come here first
I care more about the opinions here than the “news” at the MJS
I live out of state so no way in hell I am going to pay anything for the MJS
I understand why Papers are going to this but after years of giving people their product for free they have conditioned people and now they want to change that I do not think that will go over too well.
I have managed to be a happy Packers fan without paying for their Packers Insider stuff for years and I am sure I will survive with their Brewers coverage.
"It's a joke. It's all a joke.
Agreed
I think the quality and insight offered by the guys who do regular write-ups here completely trumps anything in the JS. Although Old Vegas is always good for a laugh…
"I love it when any team called 'The Brew Crew' wins": Tad Kubler
"LOLOL I LOVE YUNI!!!!": ThroughBeingCool
by MrLeam on Jan 2, 2012 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Not for long it's not.
That’s the one benefit of the paywall.
Proudly waving the "Retire Craig Counsell" banner since 2011.
Twitterize me if you dare: @mykenk
Damn you paywall
Wear kan I go now to get neet Brewer chat an stuff?1 Also, why arn’t we paying $$to by Prince back? He’l hit at least 50 HRs with Rameerez as protectiun!
"I love it when any team called 'The Brew Crew' wins": Tad Kubler
"LOLOL I LOVE YUNI!!!!": ThroughBeingCool
by MrLeam on Jan 2, 2012 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Does anyone know if there will be ads behind the paywall?
Proudly waving the "Retire Craig Counsell" banner since 2011.
Twitterize me if you dare: @mykenk
You're kidding right?
You don’t actually think that having to pay for the site means you won’t have to read about Steinhafel’s sales, do you?
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 2, 2012 2:43 PM CST up reply actions
I'm partially kidding.
I know there’ll still be ads, but that’s one of the reasons I won’t be paying.
Proudly waving the "Retire Craig Counsell" banner since 2011.
Twitterize me if you dare: @mykenk
Fair enough.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 2, 2012 3:20 PM CST up reply actions
I prefer links to content that I can actually read.
If there is no other source though you kind of have to link to something.
By the way, I despise links to Twitter updates. Dumbest thing ever. I hate clicking to a lik of the exact same thing I just read. Twitter links need to be clearly marked so I know I don’t have to click on them.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
I'm a little sad...
…that this is getting more comments than Frosty Mug 1000. (Note that I’m not suggesting anyone start spamming that post to get its comment count up.)
At least that one still has the rec lead.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
It's possible that this could be a moot point
It depends on how “hard” of a paywall the JS has. The New York Times, for example, exempts traffic that arrives via blog links from its paywall, in order not to discourage blogs from linking to them for exactly the reasons you’re considering. The Wall Street Journal (and, I believe, the Financial Times) do not do this.
So if the JS goes with a New York Times-style paywall, Kyle should have nothing to worry about. If they go with a Financial Times-style paywall, then we have a problem.
FWIW, what I do with paywalled stuff on my roundup is generally stay away from linking to those sites unless they’re the ones who broke news or originated a story – I always try to link to original sources, and that trumps paywall concerns. When I do link to something that’s not free, I just put a notation afterward, like so ($). Seems to work fine.
I voted 4
because I don’t believe the JSOnline has anything online worth paying for.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Jan 2, 2012 6:01 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Just another nail in the coffin for the newspaper business
The fact that the editors of the Journal Sentinel think people will actually pay to read their used toilet paper of a rag proves how out of touch they really are. People didnt stop subscribing to the paper because they were reading most of it online, they stopped subscribing because the paper has been awful sinc long before its merger with the Milwaukee Sentinel.
I really miss the Sentinel
"The Milwaukee Brewers' line score is starting to resemble an international phone number" - Pittsburgh Pirates Radio during 20-0 shutout - 4-22-10
by MadtownTim on Jan 2, 2012 10:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If I'm going to start paying for a Wisconsin paper it would be the Onion.
Mark Attanasio is the best.
by nullacct on Jan 3, 2012 12:51 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Copy and paste the article?
My vote went for No, and only link when other options are available but is there anything against copying pertinent information and reposting it. I don’t mean the whole article as I assume that would be against JS’s terms of use or whatever but if there is a sentence or two or even a short paragraph that conveys enough information for us non-subscribers.
Just using this as an example but say this was the article. Could something like this be posted after the link was given.
Major League Baseball announced Monday the Brewers were the high bidders in the posting of Norichika Aoki, a three-time batting champion for the Yakult Swallows of the Japanese Central League.
Milwaukee will have exclusive negotiating rights to the 29-year-old Aoki for 30 days.
“We decided to try to acquire some depth in the outfield, so we put a bid in on him at the last minute on Friday,” general manager Doug Melvin said. “It’s new.”
Why not negotiate?
Links to JS Online Brewer content referred from BCB could be had at a discount, like $1.00 per week? It’ll only work for Brewers content, puts money in their pocket, and gives us a price break. Surely the technology to make this work is available. Who would be contacted at JS, and who wants to make the offer? I’m in sales, so finding creative deals is part of my daily gig.
Just a thought.
It wasn't the best of times, it wasn't the worst of times, but all in all 2011 season was a pretty damn good time
by PlusorMinusThree on Jan 3, 2012 2:09 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I wouldnt pay $1.00 to go to OV
I hate Yuni.
by BrewCrewBrian on Jan 3, 2012 4:20 PM CST up reply actions
Doesn't anyone else here read Bernies Crew?
I find it to be generally insightful. I’ve been visiting BCB daily for a couple of years, and have noticed what seems an uncommonness of links to Bernies Crew in the Daily Mug. Am I imagining this?
Regardless, having the blog behind a paywall will, I would guess, significantly (?) diminish their readership, while, perhaps, increasing whatever profit JIm Breen and crew (no pun intended) receive from the JS. They must get paid something—why else would they agree to go behind a paywall?
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Cincinnati
|
27 | 20 | .574 | 0 | Won 2 |
|
St. Louis
|
26 | 22 | .541 | 1.5 | Won 1 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
23 | 24 | .489 | 4 | Won 3 |
|
Houston
|
22 | 24 | .478 | 4.5 | Lost 1 |
|
Milwaukee
|
19 | 27 | .413 | 7.5 | Lost 1 |
|
Chicago
|
15 | 32 | .319 | 12 | Lost 12 |
(updated 5.27.2012 at 6:11 PM CDT)
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