Friday's Frosty Mug
by Kyle Lobner on Feb 10, 2012 9:43 AM CST
in Milwaukee Brewers News
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PrintSome things to read while staying in.
We're eight days away from pitchers and catchers reporting to Maryvale, but we still may not be any closer to closure regarding Ryan Braun. The arbitrator's 25-day window to render a decision expires on Monday, but Jon Heyman is reporting that they could ask for more time. Tom Haudricourt says they could be treating the opening of training camp as a goal.
It's time once again for a daily reminder that this entire process is absurd. I know there are a lot of moving parts in play here, but the fact that Major League Baseball needs more time to render a decision on something that happened five months ago should be embarrassing for all involved. 25 days should have been more than enough time to gather the facts in play and reach a decision. Instead, it looks like there's a strong chance we're going to spend at least another week in limbo.
Moving on, yesterday I mentioned that the Brewer equipment truck had departed for Arizona, a sure sign that spring is on the way. The Official Site has more (including video) from the festivities.
Once spring training opens a lot of eyes are going to be focused on Mat Gamel, entering spring training for the first time as a likely regular. Cream City Cables has a preview for his 2012 season. Gamel is also the subject of one of Wilber's Way's top five storylines of the spring.
It sounds like Kameron Loe is already in Arizona: One of his first posts on his new Twitter account mentioned throwing his first bullpen session of the spring.
Elsewhere in the bullpen, Francisco Rodriguez is the latest Brewer featured in Brewer Nation's "Brewers By the (Jersey) Numbers" series.
Finally, the Brewers made a few minor transactions yesterday: Caleb Gindl, Brock Kjeldgaard, Amaury Rivas and Cody Scarpetta have all signed their 2012 contracts. All four players have less than three years of major league service time and will likely make the league minimum for any time spent on the big league roster.
In the minors:
- Disciples of Uecker finished their list of the Brewers' top 30 prospects by posting their top ten yesterday. Wily Peralta checks in at #1.
- Also at Disciples of Uecker, Ryan Topp has a look at the state of the farm.
If you'd like more Brewer content this morning but you're sick of reading, here are today's options:
- The Huntsville Stars have an interview with first baseman Hunter Morris.
- @Mass_Haas has links to archived audio from Logan Schafer and Brewer VP of Communications Tyler Barnes' appearances on WSSP.
- The View From Bernie's Chalet podcast is up and discusses top prospects and Zack Greinke.
Today in predictions and projections: Climbing Tal's Hill is picking the Brewers to finish third in the Central.
Around baseball:
Orioles: Won their arbitration case with pitcher Brad Bergesen (who will make $800,000 in 2012) and signed first baseman Nick Johnson to a minor league deal.
Rangers: Signed outfielder Nelson Cruz to a two year, $16 million deal to avoid arbitration.
Royals: Signed outfielder Alex Gordon to a one year, $4.8 million deal to avoid arbitration.
Twins: Claimed outfielder Darin Mastroianni off waivers from the Blue Jays and designated pitcher Esmerling Vasquez for assignment.
This morning's edition of Today In Brewer History remembers a 1971 trade that sent future 20 game winner Al Dowling to the Dodgers for journeyman outfielder Andy Kosco. Today is also Cesar Izturis' 32nd birthday, and Plunk Everyone notes that his 22 HBP are the fourth most all time for a batter born on February 10.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to get this fixed.
Drink up.
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HBP
It’s weird seeing career HBP numbers in the 20s and having them be a “top 4” in any category, even one as narrow as birthdate. But that’s because I watch the Brewers, and everyone throws at the Brewers.
I am also bored,
so everyone speculate, Powerball Home run leader board at the end of May.
(Mine is based on Braun being suspended)
1. Hart
2. Am Ram
3. Weeks
4. Gamel
5. JonLuc
BCB: Pointless Exercises in Devils Advocacy
Weeks will start hot. ARam will be cold.
1. Weeks
2. Hart
3. Lucroy
4. Ramirez
5. Gamel
Gomez could also make the list depending upon how much playing time he sees.
Never seen lucroy abbreviated like that
Can we start calling him captain Picard?
by Rabbit915 on Feb 10, 2012 11:24 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Newish
Started showing up during game in the second half of last season. And to be honest, this is the first time I’ve followed the team actively in the off-season. I’m enjoying it.
by Rabbit915 on Feb 10, 2012 12:26 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Welcome
The Jonathan Lucroy → JonLuc has been around since he’s been with the team. I think we have quite a few Star Trek geeks on here for that to not get noticed.
During some gamethreads, I’ve seen the occasional “Make it so” when he comes up to the plate.
I want to find a way to make Kottaras relatable to Captain Kirk
Then the discussions about who is the better catcher could also be applied to who is the better Star Trek captain.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
Of course, there's no discussion about who's the better catcher
Still, it would be funny to try to make it work…
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
Ok, let me ammend my statement
There is no discussion on which catcher is more valuable overall to the Brewers.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
WTF is going on with my posting right now?
That’s twice I’ve double posted and lost the body of the post. I’m reloading the page.
I continued with “Lucroy is much better than that”
It happens sometimes when you post.
It will post it correctly, then all of a sudden it will look like it was posted a second time, but with no text in the body of the post, only in the subject. It only happens in the local browser of whoever posted it.
If you refresh the page completely (Shift+Reload), it fixes it in your browser.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
brewer trek geeks?
say it ain’t so
Mark Attanasio is the best.
by nullacct on Feb 10, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
...BRANDONJENNINGSSUX!!!
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Feb 10, 2012 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
Just like everything with Prince Fielder
I don’t think he can be replaced in this, either.
by ecocd on Feb 10, 2012 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rickie LaForge!
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Feb 10, 2012 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
1) Braun
2) Ramirez
3) Weeks
4) Hart
5) Gamel
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
If Braun is suspended
1) Aoki
…
…
…
2) Ramirez
3) Weeks
4) Hart
5) Gamel
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 10, 2012 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Nick Johnson - minor league contract
Does he have injury problems or something? He’s always been a huge OBP guy.
He's a walking porcelin doll.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
Does Nick Johnson have injury problems?
hahahahahaha
by tcyoung on Feb 10, 2012 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Injuries
2007 – Broke his leg at the end of 2006 and missed the entire season
2008 – Tore a ligament in his wrist in mid-May and missed the rest of the season
2010 – Wrist injury in early May and missed the rest of the season
2011 – Played entire season on Cleveland’s minor league system (AA and AAA)… .201/.326/.328 in 225 PAs.
.201/.326?
He walked in 12.9% of his PA and struck out 23.1%. Looks like he has to get the bat off his shoulder this year.
I was hoping the Brewers would sign him. Nick Johnson is awesome.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
the site's gonna explode when Braun is found not guilty and Greinke signs an extension ON THE SAME DAY!
trying to stay optimistic! haha
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Feb 10, 2012 10:43 AM CST reply actions 7 recs
Still won't be as big a site explosion
as the day Branyan returns…
BCB Fantasy Football 2011 winner (Swansons League)
Also-ran (loser!) in every other BCB Fantasy competition
"LOLOL I LOVE YUNI!!!!": ThroughBeingCool
Yes
That makes it approximately 263 references I’ve made this off-season to Branyan returning. I miss baseball. And Branyan…
BCB Fantasy Football 2011 winner (Swansons League)
Also-ran (loser!) in every other BCB Fantasy competition
"LOLOL I LOVE YUNI!!!!": ThroughBeingCool
Or the day Counsell rises from the dead...
That dog just won't hunt.
by Bush League All Star on Feb 10, 2012 10:45 PM CST up reply actions
I still think the arbiter just doesn't really care about the Braun case
He’s surely got a zillion other cases pending and they’re more important than a baseball player’s urine test. It’s just a job for him. He does it every weekday (and weekends) of his life. Even after a decision is made, it could take days to get the paperwork in order, especially if he’s suspended.
I’m as impatient as everyone, but it’s not that surprising that it’s not getting done in a timely manner. 5 months for the entire timeline seems a bit ridiculous, but there are a lot of events that need to occur to make everything happen. They have to perform the second test after the initial test. Everyone needs to have enough time to prepare their case for the arbitration panel which could be a pretty long timeline given that it’s not the only thing the MLB legal department is doing. if there really were unusual circumstances around the test, that would take even longer to prepare. Add a month for the arbiter’s deliberation and it’s hard to see how it could take any less than 3 months, in the first place.
To be fair, though.
If this had gone as it should have, one of two things would have happened:
- We never would have heard about it (if he is found not guilty)
- The first we would have heard about would be in mid to late February when the appeal is denied (if he is found guilty).
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
It's not "guilt"/"not guilt"
It’s either “failed the test” or “failed due to extenuating circumstances.” In either case, he’s failed the test, now it’s just a matter of determining whether or not his plausible deniability is cause enough to overturn any suspension. Even if he is suspended, that is not material proof of “guilt,” or even any intention to break the rules. The quicker we scrap using such finite and limiting terms, the better.
by mpbMKE on Feb 10, 2012 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know what the correct terminology is
It seems like it changes on a daily basis.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
Just a pet peeve of mine.
But, yeah, they’re not determining guilt or innocence, per se, especially because only a court of law can do that, and only on criminal charges. They’re basically determining if he “should have known better.” Which, if he was knowingly taking a banned substance, then, yeah, pretty clear cut he should have known better. If it was unknowingly administered by a physician or some such thing, then he still has a responsibility to know what’s going in his body but maybe there’s leniency. If it’s a faulty or mishandled test, or chain of custody can’t be verified, then maybe he took something, maybe he didn’t, but the test is invalid. There are probably a dozen more scenarios where he does or doesn’t get suspended, regardless of whether or not he did anything intentionally.
Yikes, that got long-winded, sorry.
Could you imagine, though, waking up on Tuesday and finding out that Braun was suspended (if nothing had leaked)?
Completely out of the blue. I guess it would be similar to finding out about the test in December, but even worse because we’d already know the outcome.
by tcyoung on Feb 10, 2012 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
On the heels of Prince leaving?
They’d have to post Sheriff’s deputies on the Hoan Bridge to keep people from jumping off like lemmings.
It always made sense.
The Brewers must, at all times, have at least one Japanese player. Things are just better that way.
by mpbMKE on Feb 10, 2012 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
They're throwing Aoki a very merry Unbirthday party.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
Now you've done it :)
I’m going to now look up the teams that didn’t have a Japanese player on the roster.
I think so.
There was Tamagachi Nomura back in the early 2000s and Hideo Nomo in 199…8? But it always makes me happy when there is one.
It's Takahito Nomura, actually.
And the fact that I both noticed and felt the need to correct the error says a dozen non-positive things about me.
Now that's great tasting chicken!
actually because this is your job, I would say they are positive things.
BCB: Pointless Exercises in Devils Advocacy
I find it hilarious that he mistook it for "Tamagachi".
That’s one of those old keychain pets, no?
...BRANDONJENNINGSSUX!!!
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Feb 10, 2012 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
*Sees above*
yup
...BRANDONJENNINGSSUX!!!
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Feb 10, 2012 2:52 PM CST up reply actions
Does anybody know the last time the Twins had a chubby CF?
Was it Furby Puckett?
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
God I hope so.
...BRANDONJENNINGSSUX!!!
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Feb 10, 2012 3:12 PM CST up reply actions
Right
I was just going with the last season without a Japanese player, because I’m pretty sure that there were only a handful of seasons when the Brewers had a Japanese player on the roster. In fact, I think Nomo was the first Japanese player for the Brewers (1999).
Yes
Here’s a list thanks to Wiki:
Hideo Nomo (1999)
Mac Suzuki (2001)
Takahito Nomura (2002)
Tomo Ohka (2005-2006)
Takashi Saito (2011)
Norichika Aoki (2012)
arbitrators
Do we know that the arbitrators working the Ryan Braun case are the same ones assigned to the various contract hearings? I guess I sort of assumed that they weren’t. If so, I agree contract arbitration disputes should take priority, I just guess I never considered this to be an issue.
either way, this is probably the brewer fan in me speaking, but I would have to think that the longer it drags out for him, the better. After all, the burden of proof is on him.
"You guys know me. I take a long time to analyze things."
- Ned Yost
by SunglassesAtNight on Feb 10, 2012 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
It really doesn't matter how many other cases he has.
Or even, how many more important cases he has. He has 25 days to make a yes or no decision. That is plenty of time. He shouldn’t need an extension.
Now, I’m assuming here that we’re waiting on the independent arbitrator, and that it’s not a matter of the union rep dragging his feet because he wants to prolong a suspension as long as he can.
by tcyoung on Feb 10, 2012 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i agree with you. if he was swamped with other cases, that may be one thing, but i doubt that he is. 25 days is plenty of time. wars have been fought in less time
"You guys know me. I take a long time to analyze things."
- Ned Yost
by SunglassesAtNight on Feb 10, 2012 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
I doubt this is what he does exclusively.
Independent arbiters are just that: independent. This is contract work, which doesn’t mean he takes it less seriously, but it’s not exactly the only thing on his plate. I don’t know what criteria MLB uses to choose their arbiters, but I’d imagine he’s a partner in a large law firm, or carries some other such weighty professional responsibilities.
That said, the 25 day deadline should be enough to carve out time to deliberate on this case. If he really does need an extension, I hope it’s for a good reason (which, of course, we’ll likely never know).
Here's the thing. It doesn't even matter how swamped he is.
He’s serving a client. The client is giving him a very reasonable timeframe. It’s his duty to serve his client and make a decision within the given timeframe
by tcyoung on Feb 10, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes
And he has to meet those deadlines if he accepts the contracted work.
by cwolf20 on Feb 10, 2012 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I would hope that he would've had the foresight to request an extension before now
Waiting until the 25 days were up then asking for an extension seem pretty unprofessional… particularly for a guy who has done it as long as he has. If so, then I’m guessing MLB would give him another week (until ST starts), but probably not more than that. I don’t think MLB wants this to drag on through ST.
Granted, he might have done just that since everything is confidential.
He may have requested it two weeks ago
Or he hasn’t requested one at all and the statement was originally made to note that we won’t know Monday for certain. There’s the possibility of an extension not necessarily a formal request. At least that’s how I read it.
This.
Why would they announce an extension for a hearing that technically no one is supposed to know about?
by mpbMKE on Feb 10, 2012 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"Are you kidding? Steve fell down the other day and he hasn't shut up about it since!"
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
by Yar Nivek on Feb 10, 2012 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Right. They'd rather have a well thought-out ruling be late, than a hasty ruling on time.
But they shouldn’t show sympathy for him if he has too many other obligations. That’s not MLB’s problem.
by tcyoung on Feb 10, 2012 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Something is seriously wrong with my posting right now
The entire body of my post is missing, and it double posted.
It does that to me sometimes.
Just hold the shift key and reload the page. It should be fine.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
Wow. That is a noice resume.
...BRANDONJENNINGSSUX!!!
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Feb 10, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
Degrees from Harvard, U of Chicago, and Yale?
I have a B.A. in English from a public university. Can I be an arbitrator?
by the notorious r.d.m. on Feb 10, 2012 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He's really fuckin' old
I don’t trust him at all.
I got goons.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Feb 11, 2012 9:41 AM CST up reply actions
I actually think the delay is good
I think the longer it takes the more likely it means the possibility of a Braun acquittal. If you wait forever and then uphold the failed test, it makes it look like you were searching for a way to get him off (bad for MLB). If you wait forever and then overturn the failed test, it makes it look like you were using due diligence to find THE TRUTH™ (good for MLB).
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
Ready for an article that may tick you off?
Ken Rosenthal just wrote an article arguing that baseball will be better off if Braun is suspended.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
Tom Haudricourt replied to Rosenthal in a tweet on this
He says that Selig is in a bit of a no-win situation here. He loses one of the game’s big stars if the suspension is upheld, and looks like he’s showing favoritism if the suspension is overturned.
It is true, though. Even though it’s not Selig’s decision, if the suspension is overturned, there will be many claims that favoritism was shown to Braun.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
As a HIPAA-certified IT employee, it's making me sick
Reading article after article about judgments and ethical behavior, with not a mention as to the privacy of the data and the rights of the individual. Someone needs to ‘out’ Rosenthal and show that his writing was tampered by prescribed use of antidepressants.
Mark Attanasio is the best.
by nullacct on Feb 10, 2012 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Feb 10, 2012 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
If you dont mind me asking, where do you work?
I am in the Pharmacy IT world.
I hate Yuni.
by BrewCrewBrian on Feb 10, 2012 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
I work for a wisconsin indian tribe
We get a little bit of everything… clinics, casinos, bingo halls, sports, theaters, convenience stores, distribution, and then all the issues that come with running a sovereign government… etc.
Mark Attanasio is the best.
The rest of the article is more reasonable than the lead, thankfully.
by Cheeseandcorn on Feb 10, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
not really sure why that would tick anyone off
He isnt saying he should be suspended regardless of the circumstances, simply saying that from a PR/respect for baseball’s drug testing policy stand point that it would be better if he was actually guilty so that people don’t claim favoritism. And while we sit here agonizing over when this decision is made, most baseball fans arent and as soon as it is announced that he isn’t guilty (hypothetically speaking) the witch hunt will begin claiming that bud selig’s team got away with it and braun is a superstar and thats why he got off.
Maybe I just pulled meaning out of it that wasn't there.
I thought there was an implication that the arbitrators may consider upholding the suspension just to show that their testing policies work.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
I think my respect for baseball's drug testing policy was lost when they leaked confidential information
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
by mnbrewer on Feb 10, 2012 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
I am a bit angry about the leaked infromation, but it
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
I am a bit angry about the leaked information, but it's hard to keep a story like this secret.
Everyone is looking for the big story, so in the end, I’m not completely surprised that it happened. The only question I have is how secretive MLB was. If they were very secretive and it came out through someone not related to MLB, then it’s hard to blame them. If an MLB source leaked it, then that would cause a loss of respect.
(Sorry about the double-post, accidentally hit return twice before I finished typing.)
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
If they can royally screw up their confidentiality policy,
they can royally screw up their testing policy, so I think it’s fair to say that the fact the test was leaked is a big stain on the integrity of the entire drug testing process.
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
by mnbrewer on Feb 10, 2012 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
It's either MLB, or someone contracted by MLB
In which the contract should state penalties (potentially including medical desertification) for violating confidentiality.
Mark Attanasio is the best.
True, I would have to think that it was someone in MLB
There are only two possibilities: a person employed by MLB, or a person employed/related to Braun. I doubt anyone working with Braun would leak this, so it would have to be someone employed by MLB.
Any chance that the OTL source could be taken to court and forced to reveal the information? Or is that a dead end?
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
Someone would have to want to pay for that legal battle that would probably end up no where
I doubt anyone involved wants to front the money to go after something like this
BCB: Pointless Exercises in Devils Advocacy
You're going to medically turn them into something sweet and chocolatey?
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
I think he wants to expand the Sahara
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
That's medical dessertification
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
That would also be known as cannibalism
Assuming the person who was medically dessertified was later eaten.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
I was making the typo even more ironic.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
spellcheckeroonie
Desertification is damage done to land due to drying; decertification is the word I wanted but firefox doesn’t like it.
Mark Attanasio is the best.
Really?
No one knew about any other—let me repeat that—ANY OTHER player’s failed test until the suspension was announced.
So how is it that difficult?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Feb 10, 2012 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's what I was wondering
I have a bad memory, but I cannot remember hearing/reading any news of any player failing a drug test before the suspension was announced.
I'm pretty sure there hasn't been one
I think Manny Ramirez, arguably still a more high-profile player than Braun, was suspended as soon as it was announced.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
I was remarking more on the nature of news as a whole, not on the secrecy of the process.
All it takes is one person to reveal something and they’ve got a story. Once someone has that story, it’s not a surprise that they’re going to run with it.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
I like the part where he mentions in passing how the steroid era helped attendance
So it basically is just a bunch of stuffy assholes forcing their vision of what baseball should be onto everybody else, no? Clearly the market had no issues with the “sanctity of baseball”
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
It's not sanctity, it's the rules
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
And the people who want steroids banned
are “forcing their vision” while the ones who don’t are what, exactly?
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
I'm just saying, apparently more people like watching players taking steroids than don't.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
Hmmm
I thought they didn’t make a difference…
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
While I don't agree with him
I think that’s a different argument than what he’s trying to make here.
Not really
Either the steroids made a difference, and that’s why people came to watch the juiced up players, or they didn’t, and the players were exactly the same, so the ratings increase was caused by other factors.
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
Arguing that steroids don’t help performance that much and that most fans don’t care about steroids (at least not until the media invented a controversy) aren’t mutually exclusive.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
They are
if you’re arguing that the reason people preferred baseball in the 90s was because the players were on steroids. If they don’t help performance, why would the fans prefer that era to today?
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
"Apparently, more people like watching players taking steroids than don't"
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
Yes, because people continued to buy tickets and watch players CLEARLY taking steroids and had fun and were entertained and didn't rip their tickets up and shoot their televisions in rage.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
Oh, I agree with you
It did make a difference, while people were unaware of the extent of their use. Doesn’t mean it was good for baseball.
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
That gets back to the original point though
Who gets to decide what’s “good for baseball,” the players and fans, or sports writers?
Higher attendance is not proof of a majority of fans being alright with steroids, but when Ken Rosenthal says in passing that steroids may have helped attendance, it really underscores how ridiculous it is that he thinks he gets to declare what is and what is not acceptable in the sport.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
Ok, that's a good question
The owners and the players are the ones who do decide those things, and they have come to a consensus that steroids are bad for the game. You may disagree, but you don’t have to call everyone who supports a tougher drug policy “stuffy assholes.”
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
That's true enough
But congressional hearings don’t have legs to stand on unless enough people are outraged by what they’re investigating. Remember the spygate hearings in football? Those went nowhere because nobody cared.
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
Not sure about that
I think the Congressional hearings were tied to the investigations that had been going on with BALCO.
I didn't call "everyone" who dislikes steroids a stuffy asshole
I called the people who forced it on MLB stuffy assholes. Unless you are Joe Biden or had some role in that decision-making process, I don’t know you well enough to call you a stuffy asshole.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
What if we agree with them?
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 10, 2012 6:27 PM CST up reply actions
And they still are now that it's less clear they're taking steroids.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 10, 2012 6:26 PM CST up reply actions
It's a seperate issue
Offensive numbers were higher in the late-90s/early-00s and lots of players looked like professional wrestlers. Whether or not the former was the product of steroids, players were clearly taking steroids, and based on the “vote” of buying tickets, fans didn’t care.
Only old men in Congress and baseball writers seemed to care, for a variety of reasons none of which probably actually had to do with some “sanctity of the game” rhetoric. Of course, now we’ve had a decade of being indoctrinated into thinking steroids are the worst thing in the world, so lots of people hate them.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
Speak for yourself
Just because you believe something, doesn’t mean only “old men in congress and baseball writers” disagree with you. I was 8 when McGuire hit 70, and I still remember disapproving of his obvious advantage.
I don’t hate steroids, I think people who try (even if they fail) to gain a competitive advantage by breaking rules should not be rewarded. Call me crazy, but I think games should be fair.
That said, your position is totally untenable. You can’t simultaneously say that steroids were good for baseball by boosting attendance, and at the same time claim they made no impact. Can’t you see the inherent fallacy in that argument?
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
by mnbrewer on Feb 10, 2012 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm just saying they had no impact, most (apparently not all!) people did not seem to care.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
Steroids had a huge negative impact on the game.
I’m confused about what you’re trying to say here.
Mark Attanasio is the best.
by nullacct on Feb 10, 2012 4:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Negative impact according to who?
Sports writers and outraged fans who may or may not be a vocal minority.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
So is he, I think.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 10, 2012 6:28 PM CST up reply actions
Really? Might be a reading comprehension issue then.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
Maybe.
Either that or you’re missing the notion that people could be aware what was going on, not like it, and still go to games.
Like me.
Did that make me a hypocrite? Probably, but it doesn’t mean I didn’t care about steroids. I think that class of people was larger than you think.
But probably not a majority. I don’t dispute that people like to watch homeruns and that it puts butts in the seats. It’s pretty clear people loved watching the ball getting knocked out of the park and all those records fall by the wayside. But I also think that you’re conclusion, that those people (like you) think steroids aren’t a big deal and probably should be allowed, is flat wrong. My guess is that most of the people who loved watching 90’s baseball would have said, if asked, that they didn’t want players taking steroids. Again, that might be hypocritical. It probably is. But I don’t think the numbers prove what you think they prove.
That’s further supported by the fact that, since testing began and HRs have dropped, presumably along with steroid usage, attendance as a league has continued to be historically high. That suggests that what happened in the 90’s and continues to this day isn’t causally connected to steroid usage.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 10, 2012 6:38 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
This was a dick thing to say. Sorry.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 10, 2012 7:07 PM CST up reply actions
Glad we finally got there
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
I think we've always been there, but ok!
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
I think people who try (even if they fail) to gain a competitive advantage by breaking rules should not be rewarded. Call me crazy, but I think games should be fair.
Why is this point not obvious to most people today? This is one of the parts of baseball that made it so valuable to fans of all ages. Give or take a few inches or stitches, this is the same game that Ruth and Cobb played. It’ll be the same game that Wheeler and Peralta play. Play fair, throw hard, swing strong, run fast, and anyone has a chance to win.
Mark Attanasio is the best.
Breaking rules is part of what makes baseball baseball.
I personally don’t understand this idealized version of the sport’s past. Part of what makes Cobb such a great historical character is that he was an asshole who would do anything to win.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
But the one thing baseball has always had in common
Was men playing the game. If you’re not satisfied with human genetics, why not just let the game be played by robots – or better yet, computers, which simulate the game and sell you the animation of it.
Mark Attanasio is the best.
So every player in professional sports today is a cheater?
Players in the 1930s did not have access to modern training methods, and most of them worked two jobs. Sports today are not simply “human genetics,” that is completely false.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
It's just the gray area
Should players be allowed to wear contacts? Use caffeine? Use amphetamines (Aaron and a ton of other players did)? Use other supplements? Should they even be allowed to work out and gain muscle they didn’t have naturally? Should they be able to have surgery to repair stuff, and take drugs to help heal? How about guys who have Tommy John surgery before they even hurt their elbow? How about the spitball?
I’d prefer there not be cheating, of course. But there’s always been a gray area in the game’s history and I don’t know how we can say certain things are right and certain things are wrong.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Feb 10, 2012 5:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry, but that's easy
Contacts – legal
Amphetamines – Illegal
Supplements – some legal, some not
Surgery and medically prescribed drugs – legal
Working out – legal
Whether or not things are legal or illegal is almost always a black and white issue, and steroids are certainly not one of those cases when it’s not.
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
not so easy
Baseball rules are not exactly ordained by a higher power. Rules are made by men who may have a limited or inaccurate understanding of the issues.
Regardless I think Jordan’s point was not the legality of steroids but the “if you’re not satisfied with human genetics” line. That becomes a drastically slippery slope of what should and should not be allowed in the game.
I didn't think he was talking about baseball rules when he said "legal" and "illegal".
Congress and state legislatures aren’t exactly a higher power either though…
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 10, 2012 6:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I wasn't trying to start a philosophical discussion about natural rights
I was just saying that steroids are not at all a gray area, as they have been both illegal and against the rules of baseball for a long time now.
If people have a problem with steroids being illegal, that’s a different argument, but we were discussing whether or not it is cheating to use them, which it most certainly is.
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
Well, first of all, they weren't against the rules in baseball in the 90s
I don’t necessarily think the drugs that are illegal should be legal or anything. All I’m saying is that they made a black and white boundary between what’s OK and not OK where there’s not exactly a black and white boundary. It’s a big gray area. That’s no excuse for players to not know the rules. But that doesn’t mean the rules accurately pick out what’s “fair” and what’s “not fair”.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
Sure they were.
Illegal drugs were against the rules to use in baseball so unless the steroids were obtained through legal means they were against the rules of baseball. They were not tested for and some illegal drugs are still not tested for.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
They were not testing
but steroids were still against the rules.
Give him an offspeed pitch down and in. He will swing and miss.
Are rules really persuasive if they’re not being enforced? Teams break rules all the time that nobody cares about because they’re not enforced (e.g. basically every Latin American signing; lots of shady stuff goes on down there)
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
The whole 'blocking the plate' rule that came up when Buster Posey's leg was snapped.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Feb 12, 2012 7:44 PM CST up reply actions
It wasn't just rules though...
.. it was laws too. I’m not suggesting that law-making bodies are infallible; far from it. But if players obtained and used steroids or other PEDs in this country that weren’t approved for medical use, or used them off-label without a scrip if they were approved for medical use, then they were committing multiple felonies in the process. That matters to a lot of people, I suspect, and not just former prosecutors like me.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 12, 2012 9:41 PM CST up reply actions
I honestly don't understand that argument at all.
And I wonder if it’s a product of the resentment you feel over the fact that your favorite game (baseball) got a bigger black eye from PEDs than other sports where it was almost certainly as prevalent (like the NFL). It’s just my opinion of course, but I think this argument is far below your normal caliber of argumentation.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 10, 2012 6:30 PM CST up reply actions
It’s just my opinion, but it sounds like you don’t actually have a counterargument to what Jordan M posted.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
I do, but it was already made by mnbrewer so I didn't bother repeating it.
There are other counter-arguments to make too, but what’s the point? I’ve already made you angry and I’m not really interested in continuing to do so. I generally enjoy your insight and your arguments. I just wish you had more tolerance for opposing viewpoints. I don’t mind the fact that you disagree, I mind the fact that you have contempt for anyone who disagrees with you. That’s all.
And whether you intended it to refer to someone other than Joe Biden or congress, it’s fairly easy to foresee that breaking out the “stuffy asshole” line when you broach a topic might lead to some aggressive responses. If I fell into that trap then I apologize.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 10, 2012 6:43 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I have plenty of tolerance for opposing viewpoints and completely understand that some people don’t like steroids. But it’s not treated as an argument by one side, it’s treated as a moral crusade where any player caught with a banned substance (I don’t think anyone is alleging that Braun took something illegal according to federal law) has his career ruined, all of his accomplishments besmirched, and is booed by fans of his own team. That’s absurd, but the “moral majority” is completely in control on this issue and has forced its viewpoint onto MLB and by proxy everyone who follows MLB whether most fans like it or not.
I neither know nor claim to know if a majority of regular fans approve or disapprove of steroids, but for someone like Ken Rosenthal to casually remark that they increased attendance, as if those were all the “casuals” who don’t understand the Sanctity of the Holy Game like baseball writers do, is really obnoxious.
If this is a “should steroids be banned, or should steroids be legal” debate then I fully respect both sides. But if it’s a “should we call Braun a filthy cheater deserving of no respect” then I reserve my right to use the word “stuffy asshole”
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 10, 2012 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Alright.
And I appreciate the clarification, but I think it should be pretty obvious that the way the phrase was turned above made it sound like the class of people you were referring to was a lot broader than the group of people who currently and will always think that Braun is a filthy cheater.
I don’t pretend to have everything sorted out in my own head either, for what it’s worth. I think Bonds was a filthy cheater. McGwire too. And I find the fact that neither is in the Hall of Fame to be both completely unfair and hilarious. I don’t think that of Braun. At least not yet. I hope I never do. But I am worried that the way I think about Braun is a product of my being a Brewer fan.
Fair or not, I don’t think of the guys who get caught using now the same way I think of the guys who benefited for years before there was testing. The guys who get caught now get caught and do their time. When they’re done, my attitude is pretty much to forget about it (unless I hated the guy even before they got caught for other reasons). The guys like Bonds and McGwire who escaped responsibility for their behavior until after their careers were over are the guys I think very poorly of, probably close to something along the lines of “filthy cheaters”. Probably not fair, but I honestly don’t care.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 10, 2012 7:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
But I'll freely admit I've got little patience with moral relativism...
… and I think that’s what Jordan’s argument is.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 10, 2012 6:44 PM CST up reply actions
This isn't NASCAR
Rules matter. If we forgive everyone who breaks the rules, they are no longer rules, they’re just words. And Ty Cobb was an asshole, and he doesn’t deserve our praise.
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
I guess I just see a difference between putting vaseline on a ball and playing the game with a needle hanging out of your ass.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 10, 2012 6:29 PM CST up reply actions
I’m willing to bet that doctoring the ball has a substantially larger impact on actual game-play than the batter taking steroids. So is it just an issue that taking steroids is kind of a creepy process? Which, fair enough.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
"I’m willing to bet that doctoring the ball has a substantially larger impact on actual game-play "
I agree with this for sure.
Yeah, that's almost certainly true.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 10, 2012 6:49 PM CST up reply actions
That's part of it.
It can also shorten your life. That’s a big deal to me. Not that all steroids or their usage are necessarily bad. My cancer-stricken relative has been on them for close to a year now and they’ve certainly improved her quality of life.
And I think you’re right about doctoring the ball.
Another aspect of it (for me anyway) is that I find the methods of cheating that were there when the game started, like stealing the signs and doctoring the ball, to be more tolerable than the new stuff. They feel like part of the game to me because they’ve always been there. PEDs haven’t (at least to my knowledge), so it feels more invasive or corrupting to me.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 10, 2012 6:49 PM CST up reply actions
They're also enforcable
If someone is being a huge dick and blatantly doctoring the ball, the umpire can do something about it.
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
Yeah, well, I don't think they mind watching all the home runs.
But if you took a poll of those same people on whether they thought taking steroids was ok, I’d be very interested to see the answer they’d give. I doubt it would be pro-steroids, though I could be wrong.
As for me, I paid to see games in the steroid era even though I think we all knew what was happening. I for one would rather not trade increased cancer rates for a bunch more home runs, mostly because I liked baseball to begin with when you might get 1-2 guys who had a shot at hitting 40HRs a year.
I guess that makes me a stuffy asshole. I’m sure you’re all shocked.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 10, 2012 6:24 PM CST up reply actions
There's steroids for muscle and steroids for injury recovery
I’m against steroids because many players would have to jeopardize their long-time to compete on a level playing field (more than they already do as professional athletes).
I’m still not sure I disagree with using steroids to recover from an injury faster. I want the best players on the field as much as possible. Injuries are just plain bad luck most of the time. If there’s a way to get a player back on the field a week or two earlier without jeopardizing his long-term health (doctors prescribe steroids for a lot of legitimate reasons), then I would have a hard time arguing against it.
I have no idea how to police that, but that’s what I feel.
Difference between use and abuse
Is as prescribed by a physician for your health. There are lots of things that people use regularly that can be abused for one reason or another. Pseudoephedrine comes to mind. Use it correctly, and it’s a decongestant. Use it incorrectly, and it’s a brain-altering poison.
Mark Attanasio is the best.
Yeah, that's a nice line, but it's not the choice they're making.
It’s also contradicted (I think) by the fact that attendance has continued to go up since testing began.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 10, 2012 6:26 PM CST up reply actions
I need to know if there is any truth behind this tweet from Heyman, or if it's just nonsense.
#brewers, #cubs, #astros are all good fits for edgar renteria, who has something left and will play in 2012
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
That the Brewers would be a good fit?
Renteria wouldn’t be awful to bring in to camp. He and Gonzalez are probably pretty close in value. It wouldn’t be the worst idea to see if one can outperform the other.
They've already commited $4 million to Gonzalez
I’d rather see someone who can play multiple positions on the MLB roster. My guess is that “interest” wouldn’t go beyond minor league depth.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
I wouldn't be surprised if Renteria could play third and/or second.
The Reds threw him at 2nd a few times last season. If he were cheap, I would be OK with Renteria getting an invite to spring training.
by Noah Jarosh on Feb 10, 2012 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That doesn't seem to stop Yuni.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
True, I was reading too much into it.
Though, I don’t really see him as a good fit either. If he was a utility player, then maybe.
Contributor on Brew Crew Ball, Commissioner of Prognostikeggers, Owner of a broken sarcasm detector
The Braun pic
Am I the only one? that sees
“Geez, another inside pitch” yawwwwnnn “I hope the next one will be a little more centered”
"And the softball team wanted to DH for me"
by fyewiks on Feb 10, 2012 3:10 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Cincinnati
|
27 | 20 | .574 | 0 | Won 2 |
|
St. Louis
|
26 | 22 | .541 | 1.5 | Won 1 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
23 | 24 | .489 | 4 | Won 3 |
|
Houston
|
22 | 25 | .468 | 5 | Lost 2 |
|
Milwaukee
|
19 | 28 | .404 | 8 | Lost 2 |
|
Chicago
|
15 | 32 | .319 | 12 | Lost 12 |
(updated 5.27.2012 at 6:23 PM CDT)
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