Nationals Fan with questions about the Brewer's OF.
by chubias on Feb 14, 2012 11:33 AM CST
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PrintI'm a Nationals fan stopping by to ask a few questions about Brewer's fans opinions. I have been looking for a new CF with good contact skills to fit into the Nationals strike-out prone line-up. The Brewers a very, very good outfield. One with a decent amount of depth as well, Ryan Braun, Nyjer Morgan, and Corey Hart staring, with Norichika Aoki, Carlos Gomez, Caleb Gindl, and Logan Schafer as potential back-ups. Schafer seems like he would be very useful to the Nationals. Obviously, you don't need to carry 7 OFs on the 25-man roster, and that means you would likely put Gindl and Schafer back in the minors. I'm sure you all have discussed at great length the probable outcomes if Braun is suspended or punished for his alleged violation. I'm guessing Aoki starts in LF, and maybe you have Gindl and Gomez on the bench?
At any rate, it seems to me that the Brewers have a good shot a contending in the NL Central, even with the loss of Fielder. The Astros are going to be super terrible, the Pirates are still waiting on a decent rotation, the Cubs are rebuilding. The Reds and Cardinals will be some decent competition, but the Reds need to find 10 wins and the Cardinals will need to replace Pujols. At any rate, I was curious what the Brewers fans felt could be a useful uprgarde, and what you think might be a fair trade for Schafer.
From my perspective, Schafer has some valuable tools, solid defense and good average. However, he doesn't have a great deal of power, and is only a year removed from serious injury. Additionally, while you certainly don't need to trade him, you have something of a surplus of outfielders, and a strong incentive to be competitive this year with Marcum and Grienke becoming free agents after 2012.
As far as what the Nationals could offer the Brewers for Schafer, I'm not really sure. We have surplus of pitching. Your rotation is pretty good, though I don't know about your depth/spot starters in case of injury. Narvesson also seems pretty marginal, but he's young so he may add some control. Axford/K-Rod seem to be a good late-innings team, but it seems like rest of the pen is kind of iffy. However, I am far from an expert on your team, so I could be totally off, hence why I am here. I will say that the Nationals do have a fair number of solid relievers, but I doubt that they would part with Clippard or Storen. What are your thoughts?
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The Nationals needing a CF from the Brewers is pretty funny
Get a ife broseph
by Supertramp on Feb 14, 2012 12:32 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Well, Morgan wasn't really working with us.
I’m not sure what if it was a club culture clash or what, but his stay here wasn’t pretty.
#extendZim
Might as well also avoid the impending clash between the old men running the Nationals and Bryce Harper.
We’ll take him for Schafer.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
The last time we got some cash too...
#extendZim
by chubias on Feb 14, 2012 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"Ahhhhh"
You Nationals fans. I have heard from thousands of yous guys that all the team is missing is a CF. Why are you so dead-set on trading for a CF? Your team is not a CF away from contending. You are so much further than that, especially in a really tough NL East. So don’t worry about making trades for a CF, just worry about trading CF’s :-)
The Nationals are a pretty good team, and will be especially dangerous with the extra wild card spot.
Morse, Zimmerman, Werth and possibly Harper are a very dangerous middle of the order. Espinosa and Ramos had very good seasons last year, as well. And Strasburg/Gonzalez/Zimmerman/Lannan is an excellent top four in their rotation.
Also who knows what is going to happen with that division...
If Howard is still hurt, it becomes wide open.
I hate Yuni.
by BrewCrewBrian on Feb 14, 2012 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
the nats arent a bad team..
they have put together some nice players, but just have too many question marks. also, being in a division with the braves and phillies, i say the nats wont make it to 3rd in the division. but for the record, ill put the marlins ahead of them as well and say the nats will once again be below .500 and 4th place in the NLEast.
by BrewerBlue87 on Feb 14, 2012 5:59 PM CST up reply actions
Interesting prediction.
Last year, the Nationals were 80-81( a game was cancelled and not made up). The Marlins were 72-90. What do you believe is going to make the Marlins 10+ wins better?
#extendZim
josh johnson for starters..
then we can go with the acquisitions of jose reyes and mark buerhle and improvement by hanley ramirez. sorry bud, but i like them better than your Nats for this year.
by BrewerBlue87 on Feb 14, 2012 7:16 PM CST up reply actions
I'd put the Nats ahead of the Marlins for the time being.
In fact, if there are two wild cards, I might pick them to get one.
by Cheeseandcorn on Feb 14, 2012 8:18 PM CST up reply actions
No need to apologize.
I was honestly curious. The downside to spending time on dedicated fan sites is that you don’t get the same diversity of opinion. Obviously, everyone at Federal Baseball likes the Nationals and thinks that we are headed in the right direction. So, it is nice to get an outside opinion. I didn’t intend to be snide, and I apologize if I offended.
As for Josh Johnson, I don’t see him as dramatically different from Strasburg. They are both aces recovering from being out most of a season. The addition of Buerhle (3.4 fWAR, 3.59ERA, 3.98FIP) will likely only cover or barely exceed the loss of 2011 Javier Vasquez (3.2 fWar, 3.69 ERA, 3.57FIP). Hanley Ramirez had 385PAs and a 1.3WAR; Ryan Zimmerman had 440PAs and a 2.5WAR. Since 2006 when they became regulars Hanley has amassed 31.1 fWAR, and Zimmerman has put up 30.2 fWAR.
Which leaves Jose Reyes, Carlos Zambrano, and Heath Bell, against Gio Gonzalez, Edwin Jackson, and whatever cause the 8 win deficit last year. I actually think the teams will be remarkably close. And all the closer if the Nationals could solve this CF issue.
#extendZim
I agree with you, it should be a close race between those teams.
I think the Braves will be tight with both teams, as well, making a 3 team race for 2nd place. That much competition could actually hinder those teams in the Wild Card race, though.
No way
Werth had a .323 wOBA last season and Bryce Harper is still like 15 I think. I like the Nationals but they are a few years away from being on level footing with the Brewers.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
The Nationals certainly have more question marks.
Werth drastically underperformed last year. Ryan Zimmerman was limited to half a season. Adam LaRoche was terrible, and hurt. Jordan Zimmermann was limited to 160 IP. Strasburg was limited to 24 IP. Getting healthy years from all of these players, would get us much closer. Whether Harper is ready at 19 to produce is another question.
Moving Jason Marquis and Livo Hernandez for Gio Gonzalez and Edwin Jackson should also help. We have a few other upgrades and no real subtractions from last year.
However, I think the Brewers are in better shape to win a division for sure.
#extendZim
We also have Edwin Jackson in the rotation.
I’m not sure if Lannan will make it or not. Right now it looks like a 3 way battle between Detwiler, Wang, and Lannan. Lannan is the only one with an option remaning.
#extendZim
I'm curious. Where else would you upgrade?
For what it is worth, I don’t think the Nationals will win the NL East next year. We have a slim chance of wild card, but without Strasburg in September, I don’t think that is likely either. Next year the free agent class is loaded with CFs, but I don’t like the idea of paying for aging speed.
Every team should be looking to get better, so I don’t understand why you would say that we shouldn’t look at trading for a CF, which is our clearest need.
#extendZim
The Angels have a surplus of centerfielders
If you just ask nicely, we’d be happy to send a Vernon Wells your way.
Remember: Schadenfreude is still Freude.
Why would we do that? Didn't you hear you guys were offering Bourjos for Lannan! /snark
Bourjos for Lannan was possibily the dumbest offseason rummor that I’ve heard. I say this as someone that is generally not high on Bourjos, and generally a Lannan defender.
That being said I doubt the Angels will ever move more than $10 million of Wells’ salary.
#extendZim
Sadly, I think you're right. We'd be lucky to get back $10M in value for him.
Remember: Schadenfreude is still Freude.
Well, I think he'll have a bounce back year.
I could see him giving you guys 3 WAR next year. maybe like .270/.330/.475. He has had plenty of up and down years.
#extendZim
Gomez for Milone
You get the best defensive CF in baseball, we get a lefty for the pen.
Mark Attanasio is the best.
We traded Milone in the swap for Gio Gonzalez, but I am guessing he'll be a starter.
We do have a few lefties in the pen though. Gorzlanney, Burnett, and Severino. Trading Sean Burnett would have a nice poetic justice, as he came over from the Pirates in the same trade as Morgan. Like Morgan, he would be coming to you after a down turn in his career looking for the rebound.
And we have Rick Ankiel if we want a plus-defending, strikeout artist.
#extendZim
You better hope Billy Beane get's really drunk at the Oscars.
Otherwise, I don’t see it happening.
by The Left Button on Feb 14, 2012 3:12 PM CST up reply actions
Tommy Milone
is possibly the most overlooked prospect in baseball. Leave it to Billy Beane to get him as a throw-in.
Yeah, I was upset about losing him, and the Gio deal generally.
I think Gio is going to be a good pitcher for us, but think that 3 top prospects would have been fair compensation.
#extendZim
I don't think there's a match
Schafer isn’t all that amazing, but the Brewers don’t need pitching. They have 7+ SP that are probably better than anyone the Nationals would realistically offer.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
Yeah, I hadn't really seen a glaring hole or anything.
Who are your spot starters?
#extendZim
Marco Estrada, Manny Parra, Wily Peralta, Michael Fiers,
Marco did a decent job filling in for Greinke last season. Parra has been great at times, and awful at times, but he spent 2011 on the DL. Peralta is our top Major League-ready starting pitching prospect, and Fiers is basically there as well.
Marco Estrada, who pleasantly surprised us all last year and in a bind, probably Manny Parra
He’s just coming off an injury, though.
I don’t know much about the Nationals, but look forward to the day when they’re running the East and the Phillies are taken down a peg or two. However, a trade with the Brewers this year is somewhat unlikely, as you may already suspect. This is one rare year where the Brewers will be pretty much set on the roster before Spring Training even begins.
by kotsaythebuzzkill on Feb 14, 2012 5:41 PM CST up reply actions
What about SS Depth??
Would there be any matchup between a AA or AAA SS prospects in the nats system? We’ve got what we currently have on the Brewers roster (gonzalez,izturis) but could definitely use some help for in a year or two until (if) Yadiel Rivera pans out since he’s only in A ball right now. Any thoughts?
Probably not unless Weeks can play the other side of 2nd.
Or back-up SS is Danny Espinosa, who isn’t going to be trade for Schafer, or probably anyone unless it is a big overpay. If Espinosa shifted to SS, then we would have Steven Lombardozzi play second. Lombadozzi probably doesn’t have the range to play SS, but he recieved high-marks from Sickels on defense. Hits for average, draws walks, SLG was down to .408 last year in AAA. He won an MiLB Golden Glove at 2nd. But there probably isn’t anything for you guys there.
#extendZim
Well written
First off, I’d like to say this is a fine example of the way fans should interact. A well thought, politely written piece asking about potential trades. No my team is better, we’re on the rise, you’re on the decline so help us out before you crash and burn. Thank you for a well written piece.
Unfortunately, I don’t think the Brewers have anything to trade to the Nationals that wouldn’t be considered a major trade on both ends. Best of luck to the Nationals and I do think that they could snag the second wild card spot.
by Ashcampbell on Feb 14, 2012 11:57 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Thanks.
I’m sorry, but not suprised to hear, that the Brewers and Nationals don’t seem to match up. It is easy to look at a depth chart for a team and see thier strength around the diamond, but I find it difficult to do the same with the margin players, like middle relief and bench depth.
On the other side, it is difficult for the Nationals to match up with most teams. We unloaded most of our farm system in the Gio Gonzalez trade, and most of our “depth” on the MLB roster was aging veterans. I think we had somthing like 8 unranked free agents last year. Unfortunately, our GM hasn’t seemed concerned about our outfield or bench depth. He also protected a non-prospect 27-year-old catcher in AAA instead of Eric Komatsu or Brad Meyers, as a result we lost both in the Rule 5.
#extendZim
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Cincinnati
|
27 | 20 | .574 | 0 | Won 2 |
|
St. Louis
|
26 | 22 | .541 | 1.5 | Won 1 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
23 | 24 | .489 | 4 | Won 3 |
|
Houston
|
22 | 25 | .468 | 5 | Lost 2 |
|
Milwaukee
|
19 | 28 | .404 | 8 | Lost 2 |
|
Chicago
|
15 | 32 | .319 | 12 | Lost 12 |
(updated 5.27.2012 at 6:23 PM CDT)
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