Braun Wins Appeal, Will Not Be Suspended Reaction
by Noah Jarosh on Feb 23, 2012 5:09 PM CST
in Ryan Braun
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PrintTwo and a half months ago, I had to write this a day after it was reported that Ryan Braun had failed a drug test and would likely be suspended for 50 games. Two and a half months ago. The failed test reportedly came in October, over four months ago. A little over one month ago, Ryan Braun had his official appeal hearing.The wait continued as arbitrator Shyam Das requested and received more time past the reported deadline for a decision.
Now, finally, after that long of a wait, the Brewers, Brewers fans, the MLB, and Ryan Braun have their decision and, for three of those parties, the news couldn't be any better.
Ryan Braun is not suspended. He has been exonerated. He won't miss any games. We have no idea why, yet. It will likely take a while for the full report to come out on the reasons that Braun won his appeal. But what matters right now is that Braun is not missing any time in 2012 due to suspension.
MLB, apparently, is upset with the decision. Here are two tweets from beat reporter Tom Haudricourt:
MLB has put out a statement saying it "vehemently disagrees" with arbitrator's decision on Braun. That would be Shyam Das.
and
I'm going to go out on a limb and say Shyam Das has conducted his last arbitration drug hearing. MLB officials not happy with him.
I don't know why MLB is being so petty about this. Again, we don't know the full story yet. We just know the (great) end result. But right now, Major League Baseball is, apparently, a little more than upset. Perhaps they don't like their decision being overturned. Maybe they don't like the precedence this may set, in regards to a superstar player publicly beating the system and successfully appealing a positive drug test. The MLB has been working very hard since the 1990s to eliminate steroids from the game. I'm sure they don't like the publicity of a player overturning their decision. Or, maybe they just plain think (very strongly) that Ryan Braun was truly guilty.
Either way, it's surprising that the MLB would be so strongly worded with regards to their disagreement with Das' decision. One would assume that they would accept the decision and not say much about it. But that's not what we got. Which means that we will likely be hearing so, so much more about this over the coming weeks.
Theoretically, we were never supposed to hear about this at all. If the system worked the way it should have, we wouldn't have heard about Braun's failed test in December. We wouldn't know that he and the Brewers were starting spring training with that much uncertainty.
It's unfortunate that it did leak. In Ryan Braun's statement, he says, "It is the first step in restoring my good name and reputation."
That's a really good point. It is just the first step. Ryan Braun is not guilty. But there will be a large portion of baseball fans who will still claim that he is, and got off on a fluke. When we learn more information, it may change or strengthen those opinions. Ryan Braun has a lot to do to clear his name completely. It's unlikely that he will ever be looked at as the same player again.
Now that he has been accused of using steroids once, those accusations are going to follow him the rest of his career. When the full report comes out, if it comes out, there might be very good evidence that Braun is innocent. Unfortunately, because this news leaked, Braun has this shadow hanging over him the rest of his career.
But you know what? Today is a great day. Ryan Braun is not suspended. I can't really stop saying that. Ryan Braun not guilty, Ryan Braun not suspended, Ryan Braun exonerated. It all sounds so good.
It's incredible. And as elated as we, as fans, are, imagine how Ryan Braun feels right now. Imagine how his teammates and the rest of the Brewers organization are feeling? It's just a flood of relief all around.
We have no idea how the Brewers would have performed for those fifty games had Braun been suspended. Thankfully we never will. I don't think Braun's exoneration makes the Brewers the clear favorites in the NL Central. I still think the Reds, Cardinals, and Brewers are all right pretty equal right now.
What this might do is provide Milwaukee with a whole lot of extra motivation. It provides Ryan Braun who so, so much motivation. He is now going out with a whole lot of reason to show that he is just as good as he has been the last few years. Or better. Certainly, Ryan Braun is going to be tested for drugs often this year. He's going to be watched. If he struggles for even a small time, he'll be heckled as a steroid-user.
But right now, it's just full scale relief and glee. Ryan Braun is playing all year in 2012. Next season is right around the corner. Spring training has started.
It's a good day, today.
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From a Pirates fan
Congrats guys.
If he’s clean, he deserves to play. May the best team win (and I doubt it’s us!).
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Feb 23, 2012 5:11 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
I got a speeding ticket
But the cop wrote my plate xyz instead of zyz, so I got off.
Yeah, braun can work on restoring his ‘good’ name. #rollseyes
thanks for your insight tuna411
BCB: Pointless Exercises in Devils Advocacy
by Jeo on Feb 24, 2012 8:49 AM CST up reply actions 6 recs
thanks for your insight, backtocali's alternate account
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 24, 2012 7:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Great, great news.
A small, obnoxious part of my brain regrets the 2-win bump that the Brewers are going to get out of this. The rest is happy to hear it. I think the only fair conclusion to draw now is that he’s clean, and always was. And that’s a relief.
Plus he’s on my keeper team.
by Pegasus on Feb 23, 2012 5:14 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
I know you're not a regular around here, so don't take this personally, but
MOCK
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
yeah, same story all over.
So not unexpected. And yeah… mock.
by Pegasus on Feb 24, 2012 9:43 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
It's kind of an inside joke...but we mock anyone who talks about fantasy baseball
unless it is in special fantasy baseball threads. So, it is 100% not personal.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
by Yar Nivek on Feb 24, 2012 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"It's a good day, today."
Well said.
by CatchTheFever on Feb 23, 2012 5:15 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
As Ice Cube once said
Today was a good day.
by the notorious r.d.m. on Feb 23, 2012 5:16 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
No barking from the dog? Check. No smog? Check. Mama cooked the breakfast with no hog? Check.
GOOD DAY
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Feb 23, 2012 6:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm pretty sure Ryan Braun's mama always cooks the breakfast with no hog.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 23, 2012 6:51 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Shyam Das might be my favorite human right now.
And to think we were preemptively hatin’.
...BRANDONJENNINGSSUX!!!
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Feb 23, 2012 5:23 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
It's going to be a great Daaaaayyyyyy
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
by Yar Nivek on Feb 23, 2012 5:28 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
congratulations guys
the truth won today
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
by papality on Feb 23, 2012 5:32 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Remember that time Braun won his appeal?
That was awesome.
I like stuff
by molitorfan on Feb 23, 2012 5:37 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
The thing about technicalities...
From my days as a prosecutor (and before the US Supreme Court reversed 40 years of precedent while insisting they weren’t reversing 40 years of precedent), one of the issue that came up periodically was whether a cop could search the entirety of a car after pulling a guy out and arresting him, on the theory that officers can generally search the “area within reach” of a suspect at the time of arrest. In discussing this issue with other attorneys, we generally came up with this rule of thumb to describe the fact that the rule seemed to change depending on the facts:
If you find a body in the car, the search was always found to be legal. If you find personal use weed, it often was found to be illegal.
In one case while I was in civil practice, my client was lured to a different state for a business meeting where he and a business he was in a dispute with would “settle things without getting lawyers involved”. When he turned up for the meeting, the business on the other side had their lawyer serve him with papers so they could keep the lawsuit in their state and not his, since service was arguably affected in their county, establishing personal jurisdiction. I filed a motion to dismiss, wrote a couple of briefs, and pounded the table (figuratively) while arguing that the case should be dismissed on simple fairness grounds. The judge couldn’t do that, even though he agreed with me that my client had been unfairly duped. Instead, the judge discovered that the affidavit of service was never signed, and instead of giving the bad acting business lawyer the chance to cure the technical defect as he normally would, he dumped the whole suit. All because he didn’t like the way the plaintiff behaved, though he couldn’t say as much out loud.
Haudricourt says that there were chain of custody issues, and irregularities in the testing and handling process that resulted in the ban being overturned. Assuming that’s true, my guess is that the same sort of thing happened here; Braun offered an explanation for the results that made sense and was inconsistent with any claim that he was cheating or actually gaining an advantage (insert the rumor of your choice here; I won’t repeat them). Das knew that under the “strict liability” rules of the contract, he couldn’t use that as a basis to reverse the suspension. So he found another way. The irregularities probably wouldn’t have resulted in a reversal unless the suspension “felt” unfair to Das in the first place. That won’t stop Braun from getting heckled by fans of other teams, of course…
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 23, 2012 5:39 PM CST reply actions 14 recs
Thanks for the insight
and I mean that in all seriousness.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Feb 23, 2012 6:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This makes total sense to me
I’m adopting this as my current theory on what happened.
by Rabbit915 on Feb 23, 2012 6:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Good post
Also worth noting that this “technicality” wasn’t a piece of paperwork that someone messed up or something. Drug testing is a very delicate process and in this context has implications worth potentially hundreds of millions of dollars; having a sample leave the approved procedure is a big deal.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
I think its worth noting
That its still a positive test. I cannot see how being refrigerated over a weekend would cause a sample to suddenly turn up positive, unless somebody wants to start accusing the 3rd party of tampering with it, which is quite the can of worms.
I'm not a scientist, and neither are you
That’s why they had the arbitration hearing…
But it’s not difficult for a sample to be compromised. That’s why things are supposed to be kept in laboratory conditions and follow the required procedure. That didn’t happen here.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 23, 2012 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Thing is...
… you don’t really know that. Consider the following:
A positive test for what? Not a PED, according to Braun and his attorney. High testosterone levels, according to “sources”. But you don’t really know what he tested positive for.
And why did he test positive? You don’t know that either. Neither do I. Braun says he’s innocent, and supposedly the second test he took on his own came back negative. The system put the burden on him to prove that he didn’t intentionally or negligently imbibe the substance he tested positive for. The only guy in the room without a horse in the race who knows all the facts says he met that burden of proof.
And don’t forget this is the same guy that voted to uphold the suspensions of a dozen or so previous players. The MLB can be upset about and disagree with the outcome, and it’s possible that I wouldn’t really blame them if I knew all the facts, but it’s not like Das has shown himself to be some bleeding heart who believes whatever story that gets put in front of him. In fact, the opposite appears to be true.
It comes down to this, in a system geared to ratify the original decision to suspend and to uphold test results, Braun won. Under the rules of the game, if the system had played out the way it was supposed to, you wouldn’t even know about the test at all, let alone be here saying that “it’s still a positive test”. It would be like the test never happened, and not a circumstance where you’d be here trying to paint Braun with the brush stroke of guilt based on half the facts, if that.
I know I’m tilting at windmills here and the majority of fans around the country are going to think Braun’s a juicer for the rest of his life. I think that sucks. He’s not Bonds. He’s not McGwire. He’s not Clemons. He’s a guy who apparently proved his innocence, and he’s still going to get treated like crap.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 23, 2012 7:06 PM CST up reply actions 15 recs
Excellent excellent points and
Very well said. And predictably ESPN has the story portrayed entirely as “he got off on a technicality” and they make sure to say “he never challenged the results” as if they ever, EVER, knew the whole story.
I’m so glad he’s not suspended, but as you pointed out about the fans, many many people have all the “evidence” they need to act like total ass-douches about this.
by Tristram28 on Feb 23, 2012 7:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"Never challenged the results"?!?
You mean besides the time he said “I’m completely innocent. This is BS”?
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 23, 2012 7:16 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
And the fact that you can't really challenge the results
given that it doesn’t matter how an “illegal substance” got into your body?
by Archibaldcrane on Feb 23, 2012 7:27 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The results of an invalid sample?
The specimens sat for 44 hours in the testing company employees BASEMENT!……because the Fedex location he initially went to was closed……
He apparently has been working there since 2005, he didn’t know the hours?
He also decided not to drop the specimens off at any of the other locations that ARE open on Sundays, one of which is open 24/7!!!!!!!!!!!
But there are no questions as to why this guy decided to haul a bunch of piss back to his home for almost 2 days……..Delivering the specimens to be shipped is, most likely, an integral part of his job.
And if MLB and MLBPA agree to new protocols
To ensure that chain of custody and other procedures are followed, than that will be the one good thing to come out of this.
As you say, none of us know for sure what happened. Given his vehement denials, I choose to believe Braun. But I’m enough of a realist to admit that I’m biased as a Brewers fan. As a cycling fan, I also wanted to believe Floyd Landis’ vehement denials five years ago.
I think the vast majority of us would like our baseball to be PED-free. And well-constructed testing protocols, along with strict discipline for violators, can help that cause. While I recognize that many people will claim that Braun “got away with it”, I truly hope that this result will lead to better long-term testing procedures – procedures that discourage PED use while also protecting the rights of the players.
Remember: Schadenfreude is still Freude.
by Brew Angel on Feb 23, 2012 7:23 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd.
I agree with all of that.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 23, 2012 7:25 PM CST up reply actions
Rec'd
I want TSSC to be my attorney.
by Cheeseandcorn on Feb 23, 2012 8:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Can I be the guy you bring to parties to make you seem like less of a nerd?
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
by Yar Nivek on Feb 23, 2012 8:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
With all due respect,
you have no idea what you’re talking about. Once you break chain of custody protocol, you open up a whole can of worms of quality control flags outside of someone just tampering with the sample. As an example, proper preservation. As soon as a sample is collected the concentration of an analyte, every analyte, begins to change (not necessarily decrease, but CHANGE) because of phsical and chemical processes like biodegradation, volatilization, oxidation, sorption, precipitation, blah, blah, blah. Those processes happen even if the sample if properly preserved (e.g., it’s cooled to a temperature of 2-4 degress C).If chain of custody is broke and the sample is 2 days late to the lab, you now can’t prove the sample was properly preserved for those two days.
Things like this rumor about missing the fed ex guy happen all the time. More common is that someone sends something to a lab on a Friday night, but the lab doesn’t have Saturday receiving so it sits for the weekend at the fed ex office. I have personally been witness to hundreds of thousands of dollars of data THROWN OUT (not just flagged as potentially bad, but thrown out) because of breaks in COC protocol, or holding times were missed, or samples arrived at 30 degrees C.
To people educated on this matter (like the arbiter, I assume),a shady or qualified positive result means nothing. It might as well be negative.
by CoreySLC on Feb 23, 2012 7:13 PM CST up reply actions 13 recs
Posted from an undisclosed location. :)
See profile photo.
Question, in the criminal justice system, if the seals on the samples (be they drawn blood, DNA swabs, urine samples, etc.) are intact when they arrive at the lab for analysis, the test results that follow are generally admissible and found to be reliable by courts and juries regardless of how long they were in the fridge before or after arrival. (Hell, blood samples for OWI tests in Wisconsin are sealed up and mailed to the lab where they are tested and no one really knows what happens between drop off in the blue mailbox and delivery, just whether the seals are intact on arrival.) I take it the same isn’t true in your line of work. Does that cause you any concern about the reliability of blood alcohol tests or DNA tests that occur all the time at state operated crime labs?
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 23, 2012 7:22 PM CST up reply actions
It all depends
There are different criteria for every analyte and every matrix (e.g. blood, piss, water, dirt). And, depending on the analyte or matrix, there can be all sorts of differet criteria – temperature, holding times, preservation, blank concentrations, matrix spike/matrix spike duplicate concentrations, etc. etc.Typically, some sort of governing body, the EPA for example, will set standards for an analyte, group of analytes, and matrices. That governing body will also set standards for qualifying and tossing data if, during the data validation process, some of these quality control criteria raise flags.
I would be amazed if there aren’t holding time or temp criteria for blood alcohol tests, but that’s not really my game. It sames absolutely crazy to me that blood samples would be handled in the way you describe, but again, I have no clue.
Aparently the collector just kept the sample at his house for a few days
That seems really outrageous to me
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
If it were a negative test, no one would know or care
And the odds of a positive test were incredibly slim. It was outrageous, but 99 times out of 100 (at least), no harm, no foul.
I don't know, that seems really unacceptable to me
Imagine you have a high-profile murder case and the prosecutor just takes DNA evidence home with him and keeps it in his living room…
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 23, 2012 7:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's not what happened here at all?
Its not like he was keeping a collection. The dude was responsible for the sample and had to be the one to mail via Fed Ex. His problem was he didn’t check to see if it was open (and didn’t try to test Braun earlier to avoid that issue). Hopefully, as someone said, they will figure out a better method and that will be good to come out of this.
Also, I think its misleading to say Ryan Braun is not guilty in your post. The suspension was overturned, guilty or innocent was never rendered.
"Guilty or innocent was never rendered"
Then he’s not guilty
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
by mnbrewer on Feb 23, 2012 8:38 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's not a fact either (at least not verifiable)
He’s lucky that tester was so dumb, however, is a true statement.
No
“Not guilty” means absent of guilt. There’s no guilt. He’s not guilty. See how this works?
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
by mnbrewer on Feb 23, 2012 8:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"He's lucky that tester was so dumb"
Because if the tester had properly handled the sample and no elevated T:E Ratio was found in his sample then we wouldn’t be having this conversation and his name would not have been tarnished. You speak as if he got away with it. You don’t know that. You think it, but you don’t know it.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
by Yar Nivek on Feb 23, 2012 8:58 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
It reminds me of the courtroom scene in Shawshank.
The prosecutor asks something to the extend of “Don’t you find it convenient that you were at the scene, but don’t have an alibi for the exact time of the murder?” and he replies, “I find it most inconvenient, since it means I’m now on trial for a crime I didn’t commit.” I really wish I wasn’t too lazy to look up exact quotes.
by dickie_thon on Feb 23, 2012 9:14 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Dude, nobody cares about your made up conspiracy theories on why Braun got off.
The neutral arbitrator found that there was no reason to suspend him. Nobody can retroactively prove that they weren’t doing something.
P.S. – The neutral arbitrator found that there was no reason to suspend him.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 23, 2012 10:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rogue Cardinal fan neighbor broke in and dumped in testosterone
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
Where was TLR that night?
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 23, 2012 8:03 PM CST up reply actions
These are the hard hitting questions the mainstream media isn't asking
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
You win the thread
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
BCB Fantasy Football League 1 Champ
by Hyatt on Feb 24, 2012 2:29 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
testosterone
does not manifest itself while sitting in a couriers fridge.
Pat each other on your backs all you want, as branta wrote, it is still a positive test.
Thank you for your insight tuna411
It is so nice to have an expert in Bio Chemistry here to set us straight about the exact facts of a case that most of us have no knowledge about.
BCB: Pointless Exercises in Devils Advocacy
by Jeo on Feb 24, 2012 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Actually
BioChem IS what I do for a living, 22 years now.
Keep living with the blinders on, it must be a nice life.
Do you get paid extra
to be a Bio Chemist who also gets to make the decision on peoples guilt and innocence?
no, but...
…why is the majority ignoring BRAUN TESTED POSITIVE.
What most of you braun lovers are suggesting is the courier tampered with the speciman. This suggestion reminds me of a seinfeld episode in which elaine asks jerry how many people are un-datable? Jerry says 95%. Then how are they hooking up? Alcohol.
I guess OJ was really innocent too…
COC was broken
Who’s sample was it?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Feb 26, 2012 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
Dude, replacing the fryer oil does not constitute BioChem.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 24, 2012 7:41 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
you have the same handle
as an idiot on mlbtraderumors. He uses the most illogic arguements and trys to bully other posters who question the test result.
Would you and he be the same person?
Illogic?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Feb 26, 2012 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
My wife (lawyer) has had similar experiences
Where judges have made rulings that seem aimed at punishing underhanded (though technically legal) behavior.
Remember: Schadenfreude is still Freude.
by Brew Angel on Feb 23, 2012 6:57 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Definitely
quite possible. Only a 2L so you know way more than I do, but it passes the smell test for me for sure.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Feb 23, 2012 7:08 PM CST up reply actions
I want to rec the whole discussion in this subthread, this is why this site is excellent.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Feb 23, 2012 7:42 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
We've got some really smart people around here
A high level of literacy with entertaining writing; so much great talent spent on the pursuit of appreciating baseball :)
Mark Attanasio is the best.
by nullacct on Feb 23, 2012 8:44 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
And on the pursuit of memorizing Arrested Development and the Simpsons.
And on the pursuit of photoshopping hilarious images.
It’s a great site.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
by Yar Nivek on Feb 23, 2012 8:49 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Have you dropped futurama?
Also, start watching Happy Endings
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
BCB Fantasy Football League 1 Champ
by Hyatt on Feb 24, 2012 2:30 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yes
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Feb 23, 2012 8:51 PM CST up reply actions
Based on the statements today and in the past by Braun's people
This is what they argued happened, in my mind:
1) Braun peed in a cup.
2) The sample spent 2 days in some dude’s fridge (like, probably next to the moldy cottage cheese)
3) The sample finally got shipped to the lab.
4) The sample got tested, where it came up with the highest levels of testosterone ever measured by MLB. Like, absurdly, almost unnaturally high.
It wasn’t just some sort of tiny technical failure in the chain of custody that messed up an otherwise fine sample; it was a failure in the chain of custody that was followed by insane, unprecedented testosterone levels. Wouldn’t pretty obviously raise a red flag in a neutral observer’s mind that there might be reason to believe that something happened to that sample (probably unintentionally) during its two days in that guy’s house? Especially when the next test Braun took and all the ones prior were completely clean?
by Cheeseandcorn on Feb 23, 2012 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Obviously, it was unnaturally high
I guess a better word would be “almost implausibly high.”
by Cheeseandcorn on Feb 23, 2012 8:39 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Since I mentioned Landis in an earlier post, I just looked up the particulars of his case
His T/E ratio was 12:1 in one sample, 11:1 in the other.
This is from someone who has since admitted that he actually DID take PEDs that led to this result. We’re supposed to believe that Braun’s ratio was almost TWICE as high. As you say, “implausibly high.”
Remember: Schadenfreude is still Freude.
"it was a failure in the chain of custody that was followed by insane, unprecedented testosterone levels"
followed by the first ever leak of test results from this confidential process.
There’s just so much sketchiness here.
by placidity on Feb 23, 2012 9:28 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
The breach of confidentiality is definitely sketchy
But it’s a separate kind of sketchiness. It doesn’t have any bearing on his guilt or innocence like the chain of custody sketchiness does, though both are giant, flashing indicators of a broken system.
by Cheeseandcorn on Feb 23, 2012 9:43 PM CST up reply actions
ever measured by mlb?
You should check out the sport of cycling. Those guys have been tested with 5 TIMES the number of which cheatin’ braun had and said exactly what cheatin’ braun said “I am innocent”.
Yeah, your american poster boy lance armstrong is one of them…
Thank you for your insight, Tuna411
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Feb 26, 2012 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
I'm a little ashamed to admit that when I first heard the news my first or second thought was, "I can't wait to hear what TSSC says"
I was disappointed with the lack of hookers but the pancakes were delightful
ESPN
They’re covering this story as part of their Coors cold facts. What a joke.
"It felt great," he said. "It really did. I wanted to go back out there for the eighth. It's good to be a part of it."-Axford
by GoCrew on Feb 23, 2012 5:43 PM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
ESPN wishes Braun was guilty
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Feb 23, 2012 8:55 PM CST up reply actions
I had a really bad sports talk show on the radio on the drive home...
… it’s the Loose Cannons. (Yeah, I don’t have satellite radio and there’s only one sports talk station in town so my choices are limited).
But I was very glad to hear the 3 national guys who do that show uniformly say they were happy for Braun, express outrage over the leak in the first place, and say that anyone who thinks he should give up his MVP trophy is flat wrong. The oft repeated quote was “Good for him.” They also replayed the portion of Braun’s acceptance speech where he talked about how facing adversity reveals character.
Oh and by the way, as much trouble as the leaker, whoever he/she is, might have been in before, it’s even worse now. Because now that the suspension was overturned, Braun has a much better case that any damage done to his reputation and any lost income via lost endorsements was due entirely to that leak, since no official announcement would have been made since no suspension will occur.
Of course, they have to figure out who the leak is in order to go after them…
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 23, 2012 5:45 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Ha
I heard the news from Mad Dog about 2 minutes after I got in my car after work. That was a good drive home.
I like stuff
...
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Feb 23, 2012 5:47 PM CST reply actions 18 recs
Mobile Rec
Baseball, you can't get here soon enough.
by Tepo6688 on Feb 23, 2012 6:21 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Stock photo of Shyam Das:
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 23, 2012 6:46 PM CST up reply actions 9 recs
that dude is lookin' righteous
He’s always open. He catches a lot of balls. He’s un-guardable, no matter how old he is
And I'll mobile-rec that one
Remember: Schadenfreude is still Freude.
by Brew Angel on Feb 23, 2012 6:54 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
EVERYTHING IS AWESOME!!!!!
Except being stuck at work…
Baseball, you can't get here soon enough.
by Tepo6688 on Feb 23, 2012 6:21 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Justice is Served !
He’s always open. He catches a lot of balls. He’s un-guardable, no matter how old he is
I was listening to Sirius Fantasy Radio in my car coming home from work
Ray Flowers called this a disaster …
He just did a draft and passed on Braun prior to the verdict, so he was mad )
He’s always open. He catches a lot of balls. He’s un-guardable, no matter how old he is
MLB
If I was a conspiracy theorist, I might wonder if the reaction of MLB on this is all staged in an attempt to avoid the ‘Selig Brewers favoritism.’
by Tristram28 on Feb 23, 2012 6:29 PM CST via mobile reply actions
The MLB basically has no choice under the circumstances but to release a statement like that.
I think they would have said the same thing if the player were a Yankee instead of a Brewer, but I’ll agree that the fact that he’s a Brewer will become part of the fodder for those who think the leagues just blinked on their testing program to protect on of their young stars, who just happens to play for the commissioners team.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 23, 2012 7:10 PM CST up reply actions
oops... "former" team.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 23, 2012 7:10 PM CST up reply actions
Two things
1. I don’t know how prevalent this whole “favoritism” rumor is, and of course the sad thing is when you say “the public”, you generally are referring to a bunch of morons (maybe that’s too harsh, maybe it’s just ignorance), so I don’t know really how much stock to put in this idea that they (MLB) need a cover to avoid the “appearance of impropriety.” (for you law-types)
2. I wasn’t surprised that MLB “disagreed” with the decision. What caught my eye in regards to their reaction was the degree, specifically the “vehemently disagree” part of it.
http://www.redreporter.com/2012/2/23/2820106/braun-wins-appeal-50-game-suspension-revoked#92856408
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
Damn, backtocali knows like half the people in the Brewers organization!
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
He has "business relationships" with them
Is that the same as “giving them the business?”
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
by mnbrewer on Feb 23, 2012 8:15 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
If Bud Selig was really so biased toward Milwaukee,
there would be a salary cap in baseball.
Baseball, you can't get here soon enough.
Also, BtC is a Reds fan now that he's posting their site?
And here I thought he was a “life-long Giants” fan or some crap.
Baseball, you can't get here soon enough.
I'm about to get banned over there.
I deserve it.
And it’s completely fucking worth it.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 23, 2012 8:26 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
I rec'd you
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
by mnbrewer on Feb 23, 2012 8:27 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You should remind him on that thread
that only one testing site is ‘independent’—the WADA lab. The other is MLB’s lab.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Feb 23, 2012 8:59 PM CST up reply actions
You won't get banned...
You may be asked to be a moderator, but I don’t see a ban coming. :)
"The Milwaukee Brewers' line score is starting to resemble an international phone number" - Pittsburgh Pirates Radio during 20-0 shutout - 4-22-10
TSSC won't get to be a moderator on RR unless he gets a sex change.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
Jordan, save that link...
… so you have it when he claims a couple of months from now (as he has here recently) that he has nothing against Braun.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 23, 2012 8:30 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe he'll delete it like the Bleed Cubbie Blue fanpost about how Braun should get hit in the ribcage
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Feb 23, 2012 8:33 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Your 6:26 pm comment was fantastic.
I wanted to praise you over there…but I have to wait 24 hours :)
by Whiffleball Tony on Feb 23, 2012 8:41 PM CST up reply actions
Wait...6:26?
Why is this all on PST time? Is that just me?
by Whiffleball Tony on Feb 23, 2012 8:50 PM CST up reply actions
Cinci is in the Pacific time zone.
Get with the program. You must be drunk.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
Apparently MLW is too.
Everything here says PST. Gotta figure out how to change that.
by Whiffleball Tony on Feb 23, 2012 9:04 PM CST up reply actions
Just quote this in every response to him
I take great comfort in the fact that you live and die for the Brewers, yet they will never win a World Series during your life time, and for me its a fun hobby to watch their games and come ever so close to the goal and miss.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 23, 2012 11:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I was going to come back over here to preserve that one as well.
I like how an RR guy was like “isn’t that basically the definition of trolling?”
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
Then this later:
“I am a fan of the Reds. Live in Milwaukee but do not particularly like the Brewers. The guy posting to, even though we agree from time to time, goes off the cliff when we disagree.
Its sort of fun to see guys like him implode when they dont like what you say."
There’s no reason to let this guy post here ever.
by jkoper on Feb 23, 2012 11:56 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
That's what you call trolling. I don't see any reason he should be able to post here again after that.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Feb 24, 2012 12:08 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Oh. My. God.
TSSC with the most epic ‘fuck you’ ever. Good lord. I have to join that site so I can rec it.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Feb 23, 2012 8:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I already was a member
Forgot that I joined. Very convenient to toss a rec in there.
by cwolf20 on Feb 23, 2012 9:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
RR Commenter
I stood up and clapped. I don’t even know who he’s talking to (or what provoked it, or even if that person is correct), but I’ll be damned…that was a tellin’ to!
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Feb 23, 2012 11:49 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
And so ends the story of backtocali.
I'm on a raptor.
by Rubie Q on Feb 23, 2012 10:52 PM CST up reply actions 9 recs
Some commentators on MLB Network are sportin' the party line ...
Bothers me – guess they want to keep their jobs
He’s always open. He catches a lot of balls. He’s un-guardable, no matter how old he is
Woooohoooooo.
Baseball with wins!
Ugh, Shortstop
by theBrouhaha on Feb 23, 2012 6:52 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I'm curious as to why the MLB made a statement
Isn’t it suppose to be a confidential test? Even though it was leaked by someone else, by their standards isn’t it still confidential? I didn’t think they would say anything, let alone blast the outcome.
by RyanSmith on Feb 23, 2012 7:10 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
PR... and probably part of the deal that permitted the union and Braun to issue their own statements on the confidential process.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 23, 2012 7:11 PM CST up reply actions
Yep
most definitely. It is interesting though. MLB isn’t happy, but I think the right thing happened.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Feb 23, 2012 7:41 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, both sides agreed to issue statements on it
I’m sure something was signed waiving the confidentiality thing.
I feel like Braun is the kind of guy,
and this is the kind of team that will feed off of this. Especially on the road.
by jcollins205 on Feb 23, 2012 7:15 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Fuck up Buster Olney for me.
...BRANDONJENNINGSSUX!!!
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Feb 23, 2012 7:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Olney's getting bombarded on Twitter
And he’s playing dumb.
by flyingtoasters on Feb 23, 2012 8:08 PM CST up reply actions
I know, I tweeted at him too.
Keeps saying, “Apologize? For what? Please explain.”
rolls eyes
...BRANDONJENNINGSSUX!!!
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Feb 23, 2012 8:13 PM CST up reply actions
How long til Passan, Brown and every other hack writer out there that pronounced him guilty before knowing anything about the situation starts backpedalling?
by kotsaythebuzzkill on Feb 23, 2012 7:15 PM CST reply actions
they will cling to their false opinion for years
He’s always open. He catches a lot of balls. He’s un-guardable, no matter how old he is
by WarWolf on Feb 23, 2012 7:22 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
They'll talk about it when he gets voted into the Hall of Fame too.
And I won’t give a shit then either. :)
(Unless he really does get caught cheating in the future, of course…)
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 23, 2012 7:23 PM CST up reply actions
as it stands those a-holes probably won't
because they seem to be saying it was just a technicality. I’ll be really curious to see what other information, if any, comes out about it.
They aren't
The new line is that everybody knows Braun took steroids but he got off on a technicality/loophole and isn’t the MLB drug system terrible and this is the greatest crisis of the new millennium.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
"Fixed!!!!!!!... like Kennedy fixed the 1960 election....Damn bean eating war hero"
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
Thank You BCB
I would like to thank, on behalf of BCBers and Brewers fans everywhere: Kyle, Noah, and all the writers and people who work on this site for their excellent coverage and articulation of what many of us were thinking about and going through during this crazy winter and concerning the Braun story in general.
by BigBay on Feb 23, 2012 7:27 PM CST reply actions 10 recs
Absolutely agree. The coverage here was spot-on, different from a lot of other places.
5 stages of grief was genius.
...BRANDONJENNINGSSUX!!!
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Feb 23, 2012 7:33 PM CST up reply actions
Screw grief.
Can we have the five stages of celebration now?
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
Step One: Booze
Step Two: Boo0ze
Stp 3: Boozz
tp 44 bozee
5..sdfd.fsweda poopie HA HA HA
by ecocd on Feb 23, 2012 8:02 PM CST up reply actions 12 recs
Recs are nice, but setting you up for this masterpiece is reward unto itself.
Thank you for your genius.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
I was already going to be doing a lot of that this weekend,
now It’ll be celebratory. The fact that I’ll be surrounded by Cubs fans the whole time is just icing.
Baseball, you can't get here soon enough.
by Tepo6688 on Feb 23, 2012 10:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Man I laugh every time I read this.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
"Something always good seems to happen when he's in there. Numbers matched up good."
~RRR
by Charlie Marlow on Feb 26, 2012 8:47 PM CST up reply actions
via TH
Ryan Braun’s camp is taking issue with those who are saying he merely won his appeal of a positive drug test through a “technicality.”
Because there was a chain of custody issue in how Braun’s urine sample was sent to the testing lab in Montreal, they dispute whether there’s proof that the sample wasn’t tainted. Or, even stronger, if the sample actually was Braun’s.
Someone familiar with the decision by arbitrator Shyam Das said there were “several problems” with the chain of custody after the urine sample was collected. Instead of being dropped off at FedEx on the Saturday it was taken, the collector kept it at home until Monday, according to a source.
I was told from the beginning that two ways to possible overturn a positive drug test was to prove a lab error, which is nearly impossible, or chain of custody issues. Braun’s side did the later.
The substance that tested positive in the sample triggered a high level of synthetic testosterone. But Braun’s side notes that even that result is suspicious and points out that he never failed a previous test in five years in the majors as well as the minors before that.
“The bottom line is that he won,” said someone on the Braun side. “Nobody had ever done that. That tells you enough right there.”
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 23, 2012 7:34 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Who the hell leaked this in the first place?
These results are supposed to be confidential, right?
That said, this is great news. I found out in the middle of my medical imaging class and it definitely made it a lot more interesting.
On the flipside, no one might know how good Aoki could be
I want Braun there, I don’t think anyone would mistake that, but I was curious as to how successful Aoki was going to be with about 50 games of regular play to start the season. Likewise, Gindl and Schafer are blocked from any time in the majors for the next 2 years (one of them has to get traded for middle relief during the season, right?).
I wonder if the Brewers outfield situation is now worth a fanpost on its own. Who platoons with Morgan, Aoki or Gomez? I would think it has to be Aoki which relegates Gomez to strictly a late-game defensive substitution and pinch runner status until someone gets injured and even then, he’s only the 1st back-up. With some regression from Morgan, but the addition of Aoki’s bat, the Brewers CF could maintain last year’s impressive rate.
Dammit
True. He might actually righties better than Gomez would, however. The rare Lefty-Lefty-because-our-righty-is-so-bad platoon.
I'm interested to see if he is as good of a defender as they say he was in Japan, which was top notch.
If so and he proves he can hit, then what? I feel we would have 3 very similar players for 1 position
All he needs to do is not be horrible against LHP for it to make sense
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
Now we can tell Gamel to stick it
Play Aoki in right, and move the caveman to first
Mark Attanasio is the best.
WHY DOES EVERYONE HATE GOMEZ?
LEAVE’M ALONE!!!!!
But seriously, in my eyes his glove makes up for his bat, and if he ever figures it out at the plate, he’ll be amazing.
Baseball, you can't get here soon enough.
I used to hate Gomez too.
But then I saw Yuni
I hate Yuni.
by BrewCrewBrian on Feb 24, 2012 7:43 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I love Gomez' glove
though I’ve given up all hope that his bat will come around. A guy that’s even just average in CF, but has a really good bat is still going to be more valuable, in my eyes. I think early reports said Aoki might have lost a step in CF and it’s a much more difficult decision if Aoki’s is below average in the field and above average at the plate.
If Gomez were an everyday player, he’d have a legitimate shot at a Golden Glove. He hits the highlight reel once every 3 games.
Correction
If Gomez were an everyday player, he’d have alegitimate shot at aGolden Glove
I hate Yuni.
by BrewCrewBrian on Feb 24, 2012 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Golden Gloves
Are typically awarded to average fielders with name recognition because they are good hitters.
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
Doug's going to work his magic in the trade market...
I won’t be surprised if he was thinking ahead and has a deal setup to swap Gomez for ??? in the next week!
I'd rather trade Morgan.
But the FO is going to ride that gravy train as far as it goes.
...BRANDONJENNINGSSUX!!!
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Feb 23, 2012 7:44 PM CST up reply actions
Hmmm, actually
It’s a pretty friendly contract. I don’t think anyone expected such a low posting fee and contract. There might be a market out there for fair trade value. He might even be interested if he’s going to be the 4th or 5th OF on the roster relegated to pinch-hitting duty for the next 2 years.
Let's make sure we don't need Hart at 1B first!
Remember: Schadenfreude is still Freude.
by Brew Angel on Feb 23, 2012 8:07 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
This
the question of “who is a better player, Mat Gamel or Norichika Aoki” becomes an important one now.
by Archibaldcrane on Feb 23, 2012 8:27 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
The only issue with the chain of custody
was that the courier thought FedEx/Kinkos was closed late on a Saturday night. So he followed the proper procedure in that case (which has been done before), which is to store it in his fridge until Monday morning when he could then send it.
He made the mistake of not checking to see if FedEx was open. All other procedures were followed.
There is no evidence the sample was tampered with at all or that it had degraded. Nothing was done that would have changed the outcome of the test sample.
I really have no dog in this fight. Not a Brewers fan, but also not a fan of MLB and some of their idiotic policies. Seeing MLB getting one over on them is enjoyable. But to me, this is getting off a technicality. Braun got out of the suspension, but he is not exonerated in the eyes of most neutral observers.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
Read the rest of this thread for refutation of your post
It was posted before you even made your post.
by ecocd on Feb 23, 2012 7:45 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Were you in the room during the hearing?
If not, you can’t say “the only issue with” anything, can you? ESPN is not infallible.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 23, 2012 7:46 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Thanks for your insight, random Internet guy who has no clue what he is talking about!
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 23, 2012 7:46 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
I'm just summarizing what I've read this evening
Where was it proven the sample was tampered with?
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Feb 23, 2012 7:49 PM CST up reply actions
You are joking, right?
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
Just going by the ESPN story
“According to one of the sources, the collector, after getting Braun’s sample, was supposed to take the sample to a FedEx Office for shipping.
But the source said the collector thought the FedEx Office was closed because it was late on a Saturday and felt the sample wouldn’t get shipped until Monday.
As has occurred in some other instances, the collector took the sample home and kept it in a cool place, in his basement at his residence in Wisconsin, according to the source.
Policy states that the sample is supposed to get to FedEx as soon as possible.
Braun’s initial T/E ratio was more than 20:1. Sources previously confirmed synthetic testosterone in his system. A source says MLB is livid and is considering options and other comment.
The source told ESPN the seals were totally intact and testing never reflected any degradation of the sample. Based on the World Anti-Doping Agency code, this is exactly what would have been expected to happen, and the collector took the proper action, the source said.
The source also noted that synthetic testosterone doesn’t just show up because a sample sits in one place or another.”
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Feb 23, 2012 7:53 PM CST up reply actions
Again, this is what we know
there certainly could have been other factors in play. To say storing it in the basement is the only issue isn’t necessarily accurate. And to say it’s a technicality… there are rules for what’s supposed to happen if it can’t be shipped on a Saturday night, and obviously those rules weren’t followed.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
So hypothetically
If FedEX actually was closed when the courier got hte sample, what rule was he supposed to follow? According to the article, he “took the proper action.” His goof was thinking FedEx was closed.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Feb 23, 2012 8:21 PM CST up reply actions
As far as we know. I somehow doubt the arbitrator took a month and a half to figure out whether FedEx being closed or not was reason enough to decide one way or the other. There’s more that we’re not hearing, I guarantee it.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
by Yar Nivek on Feb 23, 2012 8:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You are probably right
that more stuff will come out.
I’m just going by based on what we have heard right now. More facts may still come out. But based on the facts I have read so far, this seem like getting off on a technicality. I’m happy tho….I need a power hitter for my fantasy team…:)
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Feb 23, 2012 8:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If I am *PROBABLY* right...then Braun "probably" only got off on a technicality.
You cannot acknowledge the validity, partially or fully, of my statement, and continue to state that it was only a minor technicality that exonerated Braun. That’s just what we’re hearing at the moment.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
No, you are basing that on the facts that you have chosen to hear because you're predisposed to want to think a certain way.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 23, 2012 11:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You don't know me, so you can't presume to have any clue
as to what way I’m predisposed to think. If anything, I’m more likely to side with the players in the PED issues because MLB is so overreaching in its policies.
I’m basing my opinion on what I’ve read. I plan on reading more on the subject, but at this point, I don’t know if Braun was guilty of anything or not. But I also don’t think he’s been proven innocent.
Only thing I can say with confidence is MLB screwed the pooch in this case.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Feb 23, 2012 11:07 PM CST up reply actions
That's true, I don't know you
I’m just basing my statement on your dumb posts.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 23, 2012 11:11 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Dude, no personal attacks.
...BRANDONJENNINGSSUX!!!
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Feb 23, 2012 11:18 PM CST up reply actions
No personal attacks here.
For all I know cesarhernandez is a very intelligent, interesting person. He just makes really dumb posts in this thread.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 23, 2012 11:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Of course, I post something that you don't like
So I must be dumb….gotcha.
Show me the facts that prove Braun is innocent and totally clean. You can’t. By the same token, the evidence that he isn’t clean has been cast into doubt by MLB’s mishandling of the situation. Either way, the whole unfortunate situation does (unfairly, I do admit) still cast a cloud of suspicion over Braun. I believe today’s ruling does not lift that cloud for many people.
I wonder if there’s some kind of suit Braun could bring up against MLB for defamation or something?
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Feb 23, 2012 11:18 PM CST up reply actions
Show me the facts that prove you didn't murder a hooker sometime in the last 12 months. You can't.
Nobody here cares what your opinion of Braun is. The Internet is a big place; go post your uninformed opinion on Reds Reporter or someplace. The reason I know you are an anti-Braun troll is the fact that you have posted and continue to post this nonsense in this thread on a Brewers website, in which it serves no other purpose than to be a boring troll.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 23, 2012 11:22 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Since when is wanting to have a legitimate discussion
trolling? The reason I wanted to discuss this topic here is I wanted to discuss it with people that would have the most knowledge of the subject. They would have hopefully more in-depth information than the national media.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Feb 23, 2012 11:27 PM CST up reply actions
So respect what we've told you.
Basically that E.S.P.N. is crap.
...BRANDONJENNINGSSUX!!!
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Feb 23, 2012 11:29 PM CST up reply actions
So I'm not supposed to give any credence
to anything that is produced by ESPN?
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Feb 23, 2012 11:34 PM CST up reply actions
Also the latest Associated Press story
only discusses the chain of custody issue as to why it was overturned. It also said a second test was clean.
Like I said, Braun may be clean, he may not be…nothing was proven by this ruling. Braun won because MLB screwed up.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Feb 23, 2012 11:39 PM CST up reply actions
You may have murdered Whitney Houston, you may not have murdered Whitney Houston.
We just don’t know. That’s all I’m saying.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 23, 2012 11:47 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
So what do you guys think of Haudricourt?
Good reporter or not?
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Feb 23, 2012 11:49 PM CST up reply actions
"Braun won because MLB screwed up."
Again, this assumes that the test would have come back with suspicious results under proper chain of custody. If it was a clean sample that managed to become irregular through mishandling, then there’s no “positive test”, there’s no appeal, and Braun “wins” at life.
When you say he “got off on a technicality” as you did earlier, you are in fact implying that he did it. But I’m repeating myself here…
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
by Yar Nivek on Feb 23, 2012 11:56 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No what I'm saying is that the test
wasn’t proven to be false….because of the chain of custody issues, enough doubt in the validity of the test was created for the arbitrator to overturn the suspension.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Feb 24, 2012 12:09 AM CST up reply actions
So the test may have been valid
Or it may not have been valid. We pobably won’t ever know.
I just read Hardricourt’s MJS story for tomorrow….I think its a pretty balanced summary of the issues.
Good night, and good luck Brewers…hope ya finish in second! :)
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Feb 24, 2012 12:12 AM CST up reply actions
pobably = probably
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Feb 24, 2012 12:12 AM CST up reply actions
I didn't say the test was proven to be false. I didn't say he was innocent.
I said that by using the words “got off on a technicality” and “won because MLB screwed up” you are implying that the testing process is infallible and Braun must therefore be guilty. That’s what your words mean. If that’s not how you actually feel, then find different words.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
by Yar Nivek on Feb 24, 2012 12:16 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
OBVIOUSLY NOT. THAT'S WHY THERE WAS AN ARBITRATION HEARING. THAT FOUND IN FAVOR OF BRAUN.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
I really have no idea, but there must be a procedure he was supposed to follow and didn't
if he didn’t, it wouldn’t have been overturned.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
It seems to me the error in procedure
was in not taking it to FedEx as soon as possible, because he thought it was not possible, which it was. According to the article, there wasn’t evidence the sample was mishandled after the courier took it home. Maybe there was and we just don’t know it yet.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Feb 23, 2012 8:53 PM CST up reply actions
Taking it home WAS the mishandling.
...BRANDONJENNINGSSUX!!!
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Feb 23, 2012 10:13 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
These random tests can happen at ANY time
So what is the courier supposed to do if he does collect the sample on a Sunday or another time when FedEx isn’t open? What is the procedure for handling the sample? I’m curious to know.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Feb 23, 2012 11:10 PM CST up reply actions
Well...
For one, don’t collect it at a time when FedEx isn’t open…
by Whiffleball Tony on Feb 23, 2012 11:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Problem there is
then players know they won’t be randomly tested on a Sunday….:)
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Feb 23, 2012 11:20 PM CST up reply actions
OK...
And good luck finding a substance that clears your body completely in 24 hours….
Or “Wow that guy keeps having HUGE games on Sundays.”
by Whiffleball Tony on Feb 24, 2012 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If that were the only issue, the arbitrator would not have spend a month and a half finding Braun not guilty.
We don’t have all the facts but you can still use logic.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
ESPN? What happened to the "neutral observer" part?
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
ESPN, unlike you, has a horse in this race.
They’re the ones who broke the story on the test results in the first place. If they argue and report facts from sources that make Braun look like he got off on a technicality, then ESPN is just trying to help police a cherished institution (baseball). If they admit that they don’t know everything and that Braun might be innocent, then they were used by someone with an agenda and came close to destroying an innocent man at worst, and cost an innocent man his reputation and a lot of endorsement dollars at best.
I’m not saying they’re lying, but they aren’t exactly a neutral observer, are they?
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 23, 2012 8:15 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
"... but he is not exonerated in the eyes of most neutral observers."
I believe that. That’s why no one was supposed to know about this process in the first place. In the end you and many other neutral observers are going to continue to believe that he’s guilty based on test results you haven’t seen, showing the presence of a substance you can’t identify with certainty, that may or may not have provided an actual advantage, and that apparently wasn’t present in his system in any prior or subsequent test.
I think that sucks.
“There is no evidence the sample was tampered with at all or had degraded.” Maybe not. I wasn’t there, so I don’t know, and until they release a transcript of the hearing, I won’t know. Neither do you. I have a horse in this race, I’ll admit that. But at least I’m not pretending to know things I don’t know based on a story I read on ESPN or some similar site.
But I ain’t mad at ya. If I were going to get mad, I’d be mad at half the world. I’m just sad that all of this has happened, and that someone decided to try to destroy a man by leaking the results before the review process had a chance to play out.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 23, 2012 7:54 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
Im not saying I know anything
But based on the espn.com story, it seems that if FedEx had been closed when the courier got the sample (like he thought), Braun’s suspension would have been upheld. By shipping it MOnday, he thought he was doing it as soon as possible.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Feb 23, 2012 7:59 PM CST up reply actions
This is why we don't base things on espn.com stories.
by placidity on Feb 23, 2012 8:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
TMZ.com told me he got off because Bud Selig also has herpes and was sympathetic
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 23, 2012 8:02 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
but it wasn't shipped on saturday and we have no idea what happened to the sample between sat and mon
(and, as a general rule of thumb, I don’t trust people who willing store bottles of random people’s piss in their fridge)
by CoreySLC on Feb 23, 2012 8:09 PM CST up reply actions 9 recs
This precisely.
You did a great job in your post earlier about what can happen to a sample that hasn’t been stored properly. I am not even going to delve into the idea of human tampering. But like you said, the reactions from certain chemical processes can almost do a lot worse.
That dog just won't hunt.
by Bush League All Star on Feb 23, 2012 9:34 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I can totally see this guy
bringing a girl to his house and saying “guess whose pee this is” to impress her. Of course there is no basis for this. But the guy stores pee in his house, so its hard not to picture that happening.
by Whiffleball Tony on Feb 23, 2012 9:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
She happens to be a Cardinals fan, waits until he falls asleep, and so on...
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
I was talking to a friend about that today
Some guy just had Ryan Braun’s piss in his fridge. Like, next to the High Life. Maybe he and his roommates decided to get ripped and do MVPee jager-bombs.
You can tell he’s single.
“Honey, what’s this behind the butter?”
“Um. Protein drink.”
by Lies and Perfidy on Feb 23, 2012 11:26 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Gross!
That dog just won't hunt.
by Bush League All Star on Feb 23, 2012 11:39 PM CST up reply actions
The entire point of arbitration is for a neutral observer to actually hear the facts and decide
Arbitration is not a judicial proceeding. This was not a criminal conviction where they had to prove Braun guilty beyond a reasonable doubt or where Braun got off on some due process technicality; I don’t know what specific standard the testing rules specify, but I’m willing to bet that Das still had the discretion to uphold the suspension if he thought Braun was guilty even if there was some “technicality” that was violated somewhere. He didn’t. You don’t know the facts.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 23, 2012 8:00 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm generally in favor of aggressive policing of sports for PEDs.
I’ve gone a few rounds with others here on that issue before. But I’ve always thought that WADA and the USADA (US Anti-Doping Agency) did a great job of making themselves look a lot like the Spanish Inquisition with the way they occasionally violated their own testing protocols and leaked positive tests they couldn’t and which couldn’t be independently verified (see WADA’s history of trying to nail Lance Armstrong by any means necessary, for example).
As a result, I can’t say I’m surprised by the quote from the USADA saying that letting Braun off on “this technicality of technicalities” was a “real gut-punch to clean athletes”, but it still leaves me shaking my head. I’ve lost a few trials in my life, and I might have bitched about it to my colleagues (forget the might, I absolutely bitched about it to my colleagues), but I didn’t hunt down a reporter afterwards to tell them how stupid the jury was, which is the equivalent of what the USADA did this afternoon.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 23, 2012 7:45 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
*sigh.
I don’t think organizations that fight corruption are corrupt very often at all. And I don’t think the USADA is corrupt, though I think WADA might be (the French are involved, after all :)). I just think that the USADA doesn’t always see the forest for the trees: You don’t have to catch every user or convict everyone you accuse to effectively police a sport. You just have to get enough to scare the majority of the rest into complying with the rules.
Anyone who thinks a bunch of baseball players are going to run out and use an illegal substance because of the outcome of this hearing is deluding themselves. The sky isn’t falling, chicken little. By all means, say you disagree, but don’t pretend the world is ending.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 23, 2012 8:02 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I have a broad definition of corrupt
An agency in charge of corruption is overzealous to the point of irrationality?
Knock me over with a feather.
by ecocd on Feb 23, 2012 8:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
They do need to say *something*
Drug testing is their entire reason for existence. One bad test, people can overlook given their thousands of other tests that were fine. If there’s a 2nd in the next year, they might disappear entirely. Something more even-handed would probably have been best. I would imagine a reporter got someone on the phone before they got to someone with some modicum of PR. I would’ve expected something more like:
“We do not believe the samples were contaminated in any way and have full faith in our employees and our testing procedures.”
Yep.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 23, 2012 8:16 PM CST up reply actions
Buster Olney would disagree
He’s been on ESPNEWS for the past 2 hours suggesting that every player who has previously been suspended will now retroactively appeal their punishment.
Remember: Schadenfreude is still Freude.
by Brew Angel on Feb 23, 2012 8:13 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I don't watch ESPN for the same reason I don't watch CNN, MSNBC, FOX NEWS etc.:
I don’t think watching various people try to out-shout or out posture each other is all that informative or healthy.
"fortunate, but also lucky"
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 23, 2012 8:18 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
hahaha
as if they all didn’t appeal already and lose.
by Archibaldcrane on Feb 23, 2012 8:31 PM CST up reply actions
sad part is if there wasnt a leak
We would not know about any of this right because MLB would not have announced anything until the process was over right. So thanks to who ever leaked this and the assholes at ESPN Braun will never truly be seen as clean. Especially since ESPN is playing the he got off on a technicality so we still think he is guilty angle.
My one hope is he has such a monster year that they are forced to name him MVP again that would chap a lot of asses at ESPN
"Liverpool versus United is tribal and the lesson of history, whether we like it or not, is that it is not going to change any time soon," Daniel Taylor
by WSB Chris on Feb 23, 2012 8:28 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions 2 recs
Wouldn't have announced anything period
We would all be completely unaware of this saga if MLB/the testing lab had done their job.
by Archibaldcrane on Feb 23, 2012 8:32 PM CST up reply actions
Braun will never be MVP again
Even if he hits .400 and has 120+ RBI. The sportswriters voting would find a pitcher to give it to instead.
"Better masking agents"
The lies will never stop.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
I hope Braun is watch how ESPN is spinning this
And publicly announces he will no longer speak to any ESPN writer or reporter that would be awesome
"Liverpool versus United is tribal and the lesson of history, whether we like it or not, is that it is not going to change any time soon," Daniel Taylor
by WSB Chris on Feb 23, 2012 8:48 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions 2 recs
I wish he could require that they not show him on any highlight reel.
Oh. Nevermind.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
ESPN just doesn't get it do they?
Yes, it is still a positive test but the chain of custody issues undermine the result of the test to the point where the result can’t be trusted. That doesn’t mean he definitely took something.
It is what it is.
by coolig on Feb 23, 2012 8:51 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Jayson Stark with more douchebaggery from ESPN
http://espn.go.com/mlb/spring2012/story/_/id/7608934/mlb-ryan-braun-successful-appeal-clears-nobody
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
Calcaterra with an article that makes me happy.
Seems perfectly reasonable to me, even though reason doesn’t appear to be winning the day today.
Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.
by The Dayman on Feb 23, 2012 9:09 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Ryan Braun got off on a technicality? Bull. Major League Baseball half-assed it and failed to adhere to the standards it set up for itself. In that case I have no problem considering Braun to be the less culpable party. Anyone who says otherwise is more interested in assumptions and the casting of aspersions than they are in a rigorous and legitimate drug testing regime.
Amen
by airfigaro on Feb 23, 2012 9:12 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I high-fived everyone I knew at my racquetball club tonight
The ones who had no idea about any of this were particularly confused.
by cwolf20 on Feb 23, 2012 9:21 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I know this is picking low-hanging fruit...
but Michael Hunt leads his newest article with this: No one except Ryan Braun will ever know with absolute certainty whether he pulled off the image-salvaging equivalent of an unassisted triple play during a perfect game.
Ugh, Shortstop
by theBrouhaha on Feb 23, 2012 9:41 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Are you serious?
My goodness. JS sports copy desk, asleep at the wheel.
by Cheeseandcorn on Feb 23, 2012 10:06 PM CST up reply actions
Technically possible
First two guys k but reach on passed balls, then third batter his into unassisted triple play
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
BCB Fantasy Football League 1 Champ
by Hyatt on Feb 24, 2012 2:52 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Don't think that'd be a perfect game
As soon as someone reaches base for any reason, it’s not perfect, right?
by Cheeseandcorn on Feb 24, 2012 8:20 AM CST up reply actions
Ugh
I (unfortunately) have a cousin who supports the Cardinals. He’s been blabbering all day. Now he’s claiming Braun took HGH. Was HGH ever mentioned in ANY report???
This "chain of custody is a technicality" shit is downright hilarious.
It is arguably THE most important part of the JDPA.
And according to Will Carroll, this wasn’t just about the chain of custody being violated:
Repeatable result showed exactly how Braun’s single test showed positive. Arbitrator agreed. Simple, isn’t it?
I'm on a raptor.
by Rubie Q on Feb 23, 2012 9:59 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Damn.
Kinda flies in the face of the damage control ESPN has been crapping out as of late. They know the storm is a brewing (OMG PUN).
That dog just won't hunt.
by Bush League All Star on Feb 23, 2012 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
It's the only reason there is a story.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
Not saying the initial reports. They were merely reporting something that was leaked in that instance. Fine with that.
I am saying currently. Mainly the reporters and show hosts on their social media handles. The methods they are using to rationalize and justify things is mostly disgusting.
That dog just won't hunt.
by Bush League All Star on Feb 23, 2012 10:15 PM CST up reply actions
That's what I'm not following.
What do they need to rationalize? Their initial report was mostly correct.
I'm on a raptor.
It is the back tracking of some people who were saying the "Oh, he is clearly guilty."
Now singing a different tune or outright denying what they have said in the past.
That dog just won't hunt.
by Bush League All Star on Feb 23, 2012 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe there's no legal remedy, but that doesn't make it ethical to have reported.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
Maybe I'm not clear on what they're rationalizing.
I took it to mean they were arguing that their initial report was accurate, which it was.
I'm on a raptor.
Sorry, I think I was making a differnet point
But still, they aren’t saying “Our original report was wrong, but not we know the full truth” — they are saying that Braun is guilty and has always been guilty and it’s the testing process that’s broken. They’re rationalizing having concluded that Braun was guilty from day one and they continue to imply that.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
Got it.
I guess I was just thinking about the guys who did the Outside the Lines piece, not the Busters and Baylesses of the world who’ve been dancing on Braun’s grave for the last two months.
I'm on a raptor.
Bayless is a clown
and should never be listened to….ever. ESPN has an amazing diversity of quality journalists and complete gutter garbage.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Feb 23, 2012 11:41 PM CST up reply actions
Mostly garbage.
That dog just won't hunt.
by Bush League All Star on Feb 23, 2012 11:42 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah probably more bad than good these days
I prefer MLB network for my baseball stuff, but the problem is they frequently sound too much like company men.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Feb 23, 2012 11:44 PM CST up reply actions
Same here.
MLB network has been recently been putting up a great product.
That dog just won't hunt.
by Bush League All Star on Feb 24, 2012 1:34 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah this.
I couldn’t express it that way for some reason.
That dog just won't hunt.
by Bush League All Star on Feb 23, 2012 11:41 PM CST up reply actions
They did report that he tested positive for a banned substance
Which is patently false
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
I've been kind of going to the twitter feeds of the clowns who were most assured Braun was guilty...
I am amazed at the fans (not just Milwaukee fans, worldwide) who are giving them crap for shoddy work. ESPN may not be legally liable for the damage they did, but man the fans are going to do their best to make it known to them they are going to be held responsible in the court of opinion. AMERICA F*** YEAH!
That dog just won't hunt.
by Bush League All Star on Feb 23, 2012 10:04 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
A bit of my faith in humanity has been restored.
...BRANDONJENNINGSSUX!!!
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Feb 23, 2012 10:19 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Why'd you let Stalin out of his straight jacket?
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
Oh my god
You actually succeeded in unrestoring my faith… That is terrible
Great fans suffer through bad season after bad season with the hope of a great one once in their lifetime. And when one comes around, the only thing you can do is stop, watch, and never forget this feeling. Because you don't know when it will come around again.
by flyingscotsman on Feb 23, 2012 10:56 PM CST up reply actions
Ahh, damn.
...BRANDONJENNINGSSUX!!!
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Feb 23, 2012 11:20 PM CST up reply actions
And just think!
in 8 months we’ll be singing “We are the Champions…”
Baseball, you can't get here soon enough.
Where did you find that drawing of Shyam Das?
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 23, 2012 11:06 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Attanasio's Statement on Braun
can be found here: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/140251903.html
Short and contains nothing you wouldn’t expect, but still nice to see
Ugh, Shortstop
I will say this: I gained a lot of respect for Jon Heyman today for how he reported and handled the Braun news
really gained a lot of respect for the CBS writers and mainly lost what little respect I had left for ESPN.
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Feb 23, 2012 10:40 PM CST reply actions
Me too. Exactly.
...BRANDONJENNINGSSUX!!!
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Feb 23, 2012 11:22 PM CST up reply actions
Just think.
If some douchebag had actually had any integrity, we’d have never even heard about this in the first place.
Baseball, you can't get here soon enough.
by Tepo6688 on Feb 23, 2012 10:58 PM CST reply actions 7 recs
This needs the fury of 1000 recs
Ugh, Shortstop
by theBrouhaha on Feb 23, 2012 11:00 PM CST up reply actions
I hope Braun hires Gene Parmesan to find out who leaked it.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 23, 2012 11:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec! Rec! Rec!
He’s very good…
"Our attitude is we look at ourselves and we grade ourselves. And even if we don’t like what’s happening on the other side, we don’t make a — it’s not our business" - Tony Larussa
I'm still beaming now
I haven’t felt this good since a certain 10th inning Tony Clutch at bat last october. I changed into my NL Central Champions t-shirt this afternoon, and I am wearing my Yount jersey to classes tomorrow.
I should really turn sportscenter off, but having watched it for about an hour, I’ve got a few thoughts:
1) I found it a little surprising that they buried the story about 15 minutes after the start of the show. Behind Jeremy Lin getting his @ss handed to him by Mario Chalmers, the spurs, and a commercial break. If i remember correctly, the breaking news about his “guilt” bumped the heisman trophy presentation from the top spot for 3 days.
2) Word count in the Braun segment: “techinicality”: 11 times. “controversial”: 9 times.
3) They are now attacking Rodgers tweet. More use of “controversial” and “technicality”
I’m hoping he takes the high road and kills people with kindness. I really don’t care what everyone else thinks about him on the road, and I think it could only fuel the fire for this team. If I could be there on opening day, I would be giving him a standing ovation.
Today is a damn good day.
Great fans suffer through bad season after bad season with the hope of a great one once in their lifetime. And when one comes around, the only thing you can do is stop, watch, and never forget this feeling. Because you don't know when it will come around again.
by flyingscotsman on Feb 23, 2012 11:07 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
He should just never have any contact with ESPN again. What a joke of a network.
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 23, 2012 11:08 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I've been at work since it broke and just got home.
To my knowledge the only comment on the story has been this:
Fuck all of you. I win. You lose. You will continue to lose. – Ryan Braun
Baseball, you can't get here soon enough.
by Tepo6688 on Feb 23, 2012 11:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I hope he takes the podium tomorrow
with the chorus of “H.O.V.A.” blaring in the background.
I'm on a raptor.
either that or H.A.M.
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Feb 23, 2012 11:28 PM CST up reply actions
That's against his religion.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
lol
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Feb 23, 2012 11:29 PM CST up reply actions
Wasn't HAM his music last year?
Or was that someone else on our team?
Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.
it was Braun's music, I've altered the lyrics
It was all good just a week ago, MLB feel theyselves
And that Watch the Appeal drop, MLB kill themselves
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Feb 23, 2012 11:30 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Haven't seen it posted
Did anyone else see the Narveson quote about how they have had issues with the people who do the testing in Milwaukee before?
Solve for X: 5.5 (Fielder) + 0.3 (McGehee) + 0.5 (Betancourt) < X (Gamel) + 3.6 (Ramirez) + 1.1 (Gonzalez)... X >= 1.7 fWAR!
by SRB on Feb 23, 2012 11:07 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Saw it - surprising.
Was also surprised to see he was the team’s union rep after what we learned about him the other day…
by Whiffleball Tony on Feb 23, 2012 11:11 PM CST up reply actions
Yup. It restored a little bit of my faith in Narveson.
...BRANDONJENNINGSSUX!!!
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Feb 23, 2012 11:23 PM CST up reply actions
"Ryan Braun didn’t even have to use his AK…today was a good day."
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Feb 23, 2012 11:21 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Safe to say the M
...BRANDONJENNINGSSUX!!!
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Feb 23, 2012 11:24 PM CST reply actions
Safe to say the MLB will be using UPS from now on.
...BRANDONJENNINGSSUX!!!
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Feb 23, 2012 11:24 PM CST reply actions
I should be able to rec the caption under the picture in the article.
Because I think it needs some sort of acknowledgement. I laughed.
Fighter of the Nightman. Champion of the sun. Master of karate & friendship for everyone.
I hope the first question at Braun's presser tomorrow is about Remetee's spring collection
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on Feb 23, 2012 11:44 PM CST reply actions
In all the arguing about PEDs, testosterone, steroids etc
Everyone completely forgot that the existence of Remetee’s is 100% conclusive proof that Braun’s been on a Dock Ellis style LSD trip for the last few years…
BCB Fantasy Football 2011 winner (Swansons League)
Also-ran (loser!) in every other BCB Fantasy competition
"LOLOL I LOVE YUNI!!!!": ThroughBeingCool
Tomorrow's presser will be interesting
There will be a lot of media members looking for explanations. He doesn’t have to talk about, but I hope he doesn’t give the haters any wiggle room. My hope is that he stays clean and mashes.
In a side note. Rob Dibble was pretty supportive of Braun on his talk radio show tonight. Rob Dibble has a talk show?
I hope he hits exactly the same as last year, with no more tests coming back suspect.
If he hits worse, it will be blamed on him not taking steroids.
If he hits better, it will be blamed on him taking better masking agents and being emboldened by this victory.
Not to mention he won the MVP last year, so I’m okay with those numbers being repeated.
Applying pop culture to Brewers discussions since 2009, earning the nickname of "Our Little Abed".
I hope the PR firm that Braun hired
has press packets available for everyone stating exactly how it was beaten. Especially if the Will Carroll information is correct. If it is, THAT needs to be the top story on everyone’s news program.
"The Milwaukee Brewers' line score is starting to resemble an international phone number" - Pittsburgh Pirates Radio during 20-0 shutout - 4-22-10
Beaten is the wrong word
how the testing process failed.
"The Milwaukee Brewers' line score is starting to resemble an international phone number" - Pittsburgh Pirates Radio during 20-0 shutout - 4-22-10
He'll prepare for it like everything else.
Like everything else in baseball he prepares for, he’ll be damn good handling it.
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Cincinnati
|
27 | 20 | .574 | 0 | Won 2 |
|
St. Louis
|
26 | 22 | .541 | 1.5 | Won 1 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
23 | 24 | .489 | 4 | Won 3 |
|
Houston
|
22 | 25 | .468 | 5 | Lost 2 |
|
Milwaukee
|
19 | 28 | .404 | 8 | Lost 2 |
|
Chicago
|
15 | 32 | .319 | 12 | Lost 12 |
(updated 5.27.2012 at 6:23 PM CDT)
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