Hall Moves to the Outfield

by battlekow on Nov 11, 2006 8:20 PM CST in News Comment 29 comments

Bill Hall, starting left fielder? That's what it looks like:

Hall, who earned most valuable player honors for the Brewers in 2006 while playing mostly at shortstop, saw action exclusively in the outfield for the major-league touring team in the five-game Japan All-Star Series. Brewers general manager Doug Melvin made that trip and liked what he saw of Hall in the outfield.

"I asked him afterward if he felt acclimated to the outfield and he said yes," said Melvin. "I think there's probably a pretty good chance he'll move to the outfield (for the Brewers). I personally think he's better suited to left field."

Left field, eh? Why not center?

Moving Hall to left field will make even more sense if Melvin finds help in center, and he already has contacted the representatives of free agents Dave Roberts and Juan Pierre.

Roberts, 34, would be a perfect fit for the Brewers. He would add much-needed speed, provide a legitimate leadoff hitter and solid defender in center and is known for being a positive clubhouse presence.

Oh God.

You're telling me that an outfield of Hall/Roberts/Hart is better than an outfield of Gross-Mench/Hall/Hart? Not likely.

This piece has a frustrating air of finality about it, summed up neatly by this passage:

If Hall moves to left field and Melvin finds a centerfielder, he could complete his outfield by installing young, improving Corey Hart in right. But Melvin still has veteran rightfielder Geoff Jenkins, who has a year and $7 million remaining on his contract, as well as Gabe Gross and Kevin Mench.

"We do have numbers in the outfield," said Melvin, who indicated he might try to thin the herd via the trade market.

I'm all in favor of Hall moving to the outfield, but I think this is the wrong way to go about it. Basically, the Brewers seem concerned about two things: Hall's impending lack of an infield position (with the imminent arrival of Ryan Braun) and the team's lack of a real CF (though I still think Gwynn deserves a shot). Oddly, they don't seem to think that both of these problems can be solved in one move. Moving Hall to an outfield corner somewhat mitigates his value, and neither Roberts nor Pierre is likely to be leaps and bounds better than Gwynn or Clark (who is, apparently, not expected to be traded anymore). They're either overthinking the situation or improperly valuing what they've got.

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No to Pierre, Roberts.

A Roberts or Pierre signing for the Crew would be disastrous. Pierre especially would kill the already low OBP, and it would be made worse by the fact that he'd be immediately inserted into the lead-off spot. Pierre is bad, period. You might as well hand the strting job to Laynce Nix. I like Roberts, but why get older if it doesn't make you significantly better.

I've been trumpetting the Gross/Mench platoon in LF for a while. Glad to see an expert back it up. Hall in CF makes the LF platoon even more valuable.

I get the impressions that the team will be very active this off-season, especially with what Attanasio has said about expecting results. Don't mess this up Melvin.

by baumann on Nov 11, 2006 2:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

An expert!

Where?!

by battlekow on Nov 11, 2006 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well...

when you step up on the BCB platform, you get magical powers!

(Didn't I tell you that before? :) )

by Jeff Sackmann on Nov 11, 2006 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, ugh

I was about to post this article...I can't believe that Bill Hall may become a LFer. What a tremendous waste of value. Frankly, he'd be worth more in trade to a team that values him as a shortstop than he would be us as a corner OF.

by Jeff Sackmann on Nov 11, 2006 3:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

WTF

Hall in a corner outfield spot? So JJ hardy has a spot in the lineup?

Crap like this makes me wonder why Billy Hall would ever sign a long-term deal here.

"C'mon, boys, let's get 'em some RUNS!" --- Daron Sutton, pretty much every game of the 2005 season.

by roguejim on Nov 11, 2006 4:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

2007 outfield

I do agree with the posts made about Roberts and Pierre. Mench should be offered arby and traded for a bag of balls and an A pitcher with some upside. The Screwers would have been much better off if they had traded Lee straight up for Coco and left Mench, Nix, & Cruz where they were. I'd have much preferred a 2007 outfield of Hart, Hall & Cruz. I don't see why everyone is so down on Hardy, other than that he may be injury-prone. He showed in the second half of 05 that he can handle major league pitching and he's only going to get better. I would say he needs to make it through all of '07 without a major injury though. Allow the previously mentioned growth to take place...

by kgaul on Nov 11, 2006 8:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Why is it

that everytime I think the Brewers are going to do the right things they come out with shit like this!! Why in the world put him left?? I guess this just goes to show that JJ has, in fact, caught Melvin cheating on his wife and actually videocammed it. JJ sent this threat via a letter containing cut ou letters of the newspaper. Also, if Pierre becomes a Brewer...just shoot me.

by iluvlamp on Nov 11, 2006 8:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

don't get it...

why is everybody opposed to hall in lf?? I just don't see the problem. if we're talking about numbers put up, based on position than that shouldn't be even in the discussion (if that's what is partly at play here).
however, one counter point to myself. I'd rather see a platoon of gross or mench/jenkins/insert name here and hall in cf, then hart in rf. than the proposed options said above.

by Michael M on Nov 11, 2006 9:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

The problem

...is the big picture. Hall is going to hit wherever he plays, but his defensive ability allows them to essentially fit an extra corner outfield-caliber bat into the lineup, rather than the typical light-hitting defensive specialist that you might find playing SS or CF. It's not that Hall's not qualified to play an outfield corner, it's that he's overqualified. Does that make sense?

by battlekow on Nov 11, 2006 9:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Right

Hall in left is fairly ordinary, not too different from, say, Pat Burrell.

Hall at short, though? Probably top 5 in the majors for total offense, certainly top 5 in the NL. (Imagine putting Pat Burrell at short?)

That's one of the reasons I'm not eager to just give JJ Hardy short back. I like Hardy, and am optimistic he can be a solid shortstop. But until he can do it without getting hurt, you don't inconvenience Hall so Hardy has a spot to play. It's like moving El Caballo around so you have a spot for Magruder.

It won't end up this way, but I'd rather play Hall at short and make JJ learn to play other infield positions, at least until he shows he deserves the shortstop gig.

"C'mon, boys, let's get 'em some RUNS!" --- Daron Sutton, pretty much every game of the 2005 season.

by roguejim on Nov 12, 2006 12:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Trade JJ.

What about it? Aren't the Blue Jays looking for a SS? Couldn't we package him for Vernon Wells and leave Billy at SS, with Wells in CF. I guess that's a pipe dream, but I'd almost rather see Hall get traded for max value than have him waste away on LF, espcecially if that means Gabe Gross won't get a shot. Or, trade Hardy for something of value.

by baumann on Nov 12, 2006 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's a pipe dream.

Vernon Wells, if a free-agent this year, would probably be the #1 guy on the market. We'd probably have to throw in at least one top-notch prospect, somebody better than Zach Jackson was last year. IOW, Gallardo or Braun.

Anyway, while I think Hall ought to be SS, it's true that Hardy's trade value is pretty low. Maybe at midseason, or after '07, if he's been solid, then other teams will know what kind of property he is. At this point, I don't think he'd fetch much.

by Jeff Sackmann on Nov 12, 2006 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Right.

So, is there any way we can get Carl Crawford for Zack Jackson and Dana Eveland? :)

by baumann on Nov 12, 2006 10:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Here.

According to Marginal Lineup Value, Hall's bat would have ranked third amongst NL center-fielders, but only seventh amongst NL left-fielders. (I use MLV because it only assesses offense, and is not relative to position). Gross or Hart probably can't cut it in center everyday. If Hall is in LF, then that leaves room for the light-hitting Gwynn Jr. to take over in center. With Hall in CF, Hart plays in RF, and Gross platoons in left with a guy who mashes lefties -- (internal option is Mench, or we could get a guy like Eli Marrero on the cheap, and trade Mench, who probably has more trade value).

The Brewers have so many possibilities right now -- I'm so anxious to see how they are resolved.

by baumann on Nov 12, 2006 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

logical

by Michael M on Nov 11, 2006 11:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

J-S Poll

Should the Brewers make Bill Hall their full-time leftfielder next season?

Yes (72.0%)
No (28.0%)

Sigh.

by battlekow on Nov 12, 2006 11:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

What the hell

Why would anyone think putting Hall in left is a good idea? He'd be good at selling popcorn in the stands too, but I don't think that's maximizing his value, either.

"C'mon, boys, let's get 'em some RUNS!" --- Daron Sutton, pretty much every game of the 2005 season.

by roguejim on Nov 12, 2006 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

sigh is

right...Are they truly trying to sabotage him? I...well...I don't know..

by iluvlamp on Nov 13, 2006 10:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Unless

Melvin has a deal to score Vernon Wells, I think this bodes badly for the team.

And if Koskie doesn't come back, I think all this talk is moot.

Nate - I'm so rad!

by nmc on Nov 12, 2006 11:33 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Stop stealing my ideas!

Lol.

http://brewhad.blogspot.com/2006/08/off-season-hopes-part-1-brewers-must.html

by baumann on Nov 12, 2006 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe for a few months

But there's this guy, Ryan Brown or something, you may have heard of him.

by battlekow on Nov 12, 2006 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps

This guy?

Nate - I'm so rad!

by nmc on Nov 12, 2006 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But is he still the IF backup?

They better be willing to move Hall back to the infield when Koskie or Hardy gets injured for the season. I'm assuming of course that Grafanino doesn't resign with the Brewers and we don't have any long-term infield backups. (Cirillo is great short-term, but not everyday)

I haven't heard anything positive about Koskie coming back, so I'd say plant Hall at 3B and then when Hardy gets injured, bring up Braun at 3B and move Hall to SS.

I think as long as Hall isn't being moved around on a daily basis (like in 2005 and early 2006) and has a position for months at a time, he'll be OK with that. One of his great traits is his versatility, and keeping him at one position regardless of the injuries going on around him would be stupid.

by craigholl on Nov 12, 2006 4:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

But wait!

As of Sunday, free agents can negotiate with any and all clubs. Melvin had hoped to convince one of his free agents, veteran infielder Tony Graffanino, to re-sign before entertaining other offers.

Melvin said another of his free-agent infielders, Jeff Cirillo, has decided to play in 2007 after discussing the situation with his family. Melvin said he has interest in bringing Cirillo back regardless of how things go with Graffanino.

"We could have room for both of them," he said.

How exciting!!!

by battlekow on Nov 12, 2006 4:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

mench

Lost in all this i think are two things. well maybe not lost, but overlooked.

Personally, i'd rather see Hall at 3rd. But 3rd, OF, whatever, it doesn't make too much difference. I think the upgrade from Hall to Hardy on defense at SS is too much to ignore, also indications still are that Hardy will hit. Giving up on their highly touted, very talented SS prospect to start the season is foolish. Though i'll happily admit that time is running out for Hardy. Had he started '06 the way he ended '05 this would not be an issue, but he needs to get back to second half '05 form far sooner than later.

Anyway, two things overlooked.

1.) Melvin says "I personally think he's better suited to left field." To me, this indicates that someone else thinks he's better suited to center (Neddily?). And that this is a point of open discussion with the team, CF or LF for Hall.

2.) Does it not appear that, with Melvin saying a.) Hall will likely move to OF, and b.) He's best suited for left; that Mench no longer has a role on the team?

I was really hoping that Hart could handle center field. (But i'm not as high on TGJR as others are).

It's clear to me, well, as clear as things get with Melvin, that he is definitely shopping for a CF as has been rumoured, and that Mench is probably moving on to a new club.

This opens up an IF spot for Graffy/Braun, and takes yet another OF spot away from Jenkins/Clark/Mench. That was quite a loaded quote from Melvin. Should be an interesting winter.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Nov 13, 2006 9:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Overlooked?

I think it's pretty strange that you think the fact that Hall would be replacing Mench is overlooked given the fact that I compared the outfield with Hall in left to the outfield with Mench in left in the original post.

And where would you get the crazy idea that Melvin is shopping for a CF? Oh, that's right, from the original post again, featuring this quote from the article:

[Melvin] already has contacted the representatives of free agents Dave Roberts and Juan Pierre.

by battlekow on Nov 13, 2006 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

sorry.

sorry battlekow.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Nov 13, 2006 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You mess with the Kow

you get, well, you know.

"C'mon, boys, let's get 'em some RUNS!" --- Daron Sutton, pretty much every game of the 2005 season.

by roguejim on Nov 13, 2006 11:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

OK..Mench

SUCKS....Why are even entertaining a platoon sitchy..he should go...play Hart in left for all I care...PLay Jenks for all I care (better than the giant head)...Leave Billy at SS..JJ can be traded.. I remember after JJ's hot start this year, a radio guy from WillShitShitPee said he would hit .340 !!!!!!!!!!!from what practical record do people have this right to think...I do not like JJ and everyone knows this. get rid of him. and yes, my punctuation sucks but so does Hardy..lol

by iluvlamp on Nov 13, 2006 10:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

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