ESPN reports Carlos Lee being traded to the Rangers

by TrueBlueBrewCrew on Jul 28, 2006 10:11 AM CDT

[editor's note, by Jeff] If this is true, it ought to be up top. Here's the link.

...with Nelson Cruz and a player to be named later for Kevin Mench, Francisco Cordero and Laynce Nix.

This seems like a decent deal for the Crew; not sure I see the need for Mench with Corey Hart waiting in the wings. I also would have preferred to see us pick up some pitching prospects.

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Here's the link

linky

"C'mon, boys, let's get 'em some RUNS!" --- Daron Sutton, pretty much every game of the 2005 season.

by roguejim on Jul 28, 2006 10:13 AM CDT reply actions

NOOOO!

I really hope that's false. Ditto on the pitching...I can't believe we'd do a deal without getting some B+ or better pitching prospect involved. Ack.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 28, 2006 10:13 AM CDT reply actions

Is it too late to call the Twins?

Here are some stats:

Cordero
Mench
Nix

I can't believe this is the trade. We traded for two outfielders and 1 pitcher? OUTFIELDERS?!?! The only thing we have plenty of in this organization?

It doesn't help our pitching (Cordero is fine, but I was hoping for starting pitching). No help at catcher.

This doesn't make sense UNLESS Melvin is still going for the wild card OR there's another trade in the works. My guess is the former, which would make this a wasted opportunity.

Plus we lose Nelson Cruz, and somebody else too.

If this is true, I'm officially taking Melvin off my Christmas card list.

"C'mon, boys, let's get 'em some RUNS!" --- Daron Sutton, pretty much every game of the 2005 season.

by roguejim on Jul 28, 2006 10:21 AM CDT reply actions

It just hit me

This is a WIN NOW move. Mench could give you the same production you'd get out of Carlos, especially if you look at CL's 2nd half last year.

Cordero becomes our closer...who knows how that will go.

Nix...that I don't get. Maybe Nix will be flipped somewhere else, maybe Brady will be flipped, who knows. This doesn't do a heck of a lot for the future of the club...I'm going to check out these guy's service time to see what we might be getting, money-wise.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 28, 2006 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions

The ESPN article

The Milwaukee Brewers are trading slugger Carlos Lee to the Texas Rangers as part of a multi-player deal, ESPN.com learned Friday.

The Brewers are sending Lee, minor-league outfield prospect Nelson Cruz and a player to be named later to the Rangers for relief pitcher Francisco Cordero and outfielders Kevin Mench and Laynce Nix.

Both teams are checking for any medical issues before consummating the deal.

The Rangers are currently two games behind the Athletics in the American League West.

I really can't believe this. This SO does not address any of our team needs. I suppose it frees up cash so we could go after free agent pitching in the offseason, but that assumes a lot.

In the short-term, it's fine: the difference between Lee and Mench over two months is fairly small, plus we get Cordero. For the long-term, though...it's just terrible, and a pox on Melvin's house for not thinking long-term.

"C'mon, boys, let's get 'em some RUNS!" --- Daron Sutton, pretty much every game of the 2005 season.

by roguejim on Jul 28, 2006 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions

I understand part...

Lee for Cordero and Mench...ok. It's a win now/win in 2007 type of move, especially giving Ned parts he probably thinks he needs.

But Cruz for Nix? That's just weird.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 28, 2006 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions

Pass.

by battlekow on Jul 28, 2006 10:27 AM CDT reply actions

WOW

not at all what i was expecting. I am incredibly disappointed right now.

by thekranz on Jul 28, 2006 10:30 AM CDT reply actions

i cant believe they did this

WOW, i can not believe they trading him. This season is down. Lets all talk about the packers and move on with our lives!

by baseballdan1092 on Jul 28, 2006 10:33 AM CDT reply actions

Well...

Trading Carlos Lee = good

Trading Carlos Lee for OUTFIELDERS = bad

"C'mon, boys, let's get 'em some RUNS!" --- Daron Sutton, pretty much every game of the 2005 season.

by roguejim on Jul 28, 2006 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions

WAIT! THERE'S MORE THAN ONE CORDERO!

Man, that's a lot of caps there.

According to the Urinal Sentinel, the Brewers are getting TWO Corderos:

The Brewers dealt Lee and minor league outfielder Nelson Cruz to the Rangers in exchange for outfielders Kevin Mench and Laynce Nix, reliever Francisco Cordero and minor league pitcher Julian Cordero.

We're also not giving up another player. If Julian Cordero is any sort of pitching prospect, I might not burn all of my Brewers souvenirs.

"C'mon, boys, let's get 'em some RUNS!" --- Daron Sutton, pretty much every game of the 2005 season.

by roguejim on Jul 28, 2006 10:36 AM CDT reply actions

julian...

never heard of him. hey, I hear there's a cool site with detailed splits data on all minor leaguers! Decent but not spectacular numbers in the Midwest league. Okay, not a deal-maker. Back to the bonfire, Jim.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 28, 2006 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions

Julian Cordero's numbers

More walks than I'd like to see, but otherwise decent numbers.

"C'mon, boys, let's get 'em some RUNS!" --- Daron Sutton, pretty much every game of the 2005 season.

by roguejim on Jul 28, 2006 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions

better than coulda been expected.

I think ya'll had your hopes set too high. Like I've said many times, what organization is going to give up a pitching prospect for two months of Carlos Lee.

I hope Cordero can put it back together, could really turn this pen around.

But Nix & Mench, it'll be interesting to see how they fit in.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 28, 2006 10:40 AM CDT reply actions

I don't think so

I wasn't expecting the world. I was expecting pitching outside the Cordero family.

If we had Nix's or Mench's equivalent in a pitching prospect, then I'd love the deal. Trading for outfielders doesn't make a lot of sense, unless Melvin thinks we can win the wild card. Which, as we know, is delusional. We have to go 38-22 the rest of the way to hit 86 wins, my guess for the winning wild card number. When was the last time we had any stretch of baseball when we were 16 games over .500?

"C'mon, boys, let's get 'em some RUNS!" --- Daron Sutton, pretty much every game of the 2005 season.

by roguejim on Jul 28, 2006 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions

yes when.

But when have we ever been buyers at the deadline, this was a win now move.

Really though, I think it is crazy to expect a top pitching prospect for Lee. Would you have given up Yo Gallardo for Soriano?

Wow, what if, instead of trading lee, we had gone out an gotten soriano...

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 28, 2006 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions

soriano

that crossed my mind this morning...especially if Rickie was seriously hurt.

But...when there are 8 teams in the running, somebody's going to do something stupid. I mean, look at what the Reds gave up to shore up their bullpen! I mean, the White Sox gave up one of their top few pitching prospects (Lumsden) for Mike F'ing MacDougal!

I agree wholeheartedly that no team SHOULD give us, say, Kevin Slowey or somebody Gallardo-like for a rental, but history says somebody will.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 28, 2006 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions

I was wondering about trading lee for soriano

It seems like people want Soriano more, but couldn't meet the Nationals' price.

Actually, I think someone would have given us maybe not an A+ prospect, but a B+/A- kind of guy. Hey, I would have been OK if Boof was a Brewers, as it was looking yesterday. I think if we got two or three solid (if not spectacular) prospects for Lee, that would have been fantastic.

Instead, we get outfielders, giving us...

Mench Nix Jenkins Hart Clark Gwynn Gross. Plus Krynzel and Nelson, though I don't think they'll ever make it. And that doesn't include Bill Hall or any Weeks/Braun in the OF rumors.

Unless we trade someone, who goes down? Gwynn, for sure. Do we keep 6 OFs at the major league level?

"C'mon, boys, let's get 'em some RUNS!" --- Daron Sutton, pretty much every game of the 2005 season.

by roguejim on Jul 28, 2006 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions

yes yes

This deal obviously means that the crew think they're still in the hunt for a wild card.

I guess simply comes down to losing Lee anyway. Including Cruz does surprise me but I like what we got back. Mench is a good stick and good glove, and Nix has some up side. I think after Sheets and Ohka came back strong Melvin didn't think starting pitching was a need. Then with previous starters going to the pen and adding a closer. Now they have some depth with adding Cordero. Not sure about the other Cordero. appears to be in LOW A with clinton.

overall, if they think they have the team to challenge as others have said. this deal is for this year and next. Not much long term.

Tim Indiana brewers fan bring back the chalet. give miller park some sort of a historical brewery feel to it. it's a sleeper right now!!!!!!!!!!!!

by storminTAZZ on Jul 28, 2006 10:41 AM CDT reply actions

nix

and Nix has some up side

This i'm not sure about. I can't see what role Nix plays with the Brewers. I think Nelson Cruz was way overrated so parting with him is not that big of a deal. I like acquiring Mench, it's basically Carlos Lee three year's ago.

I think Francisco Cordero makes this deal a winner for the Brewers, if only it weren't for the fact that we are out of the playoff race...

It's a wash.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 28, 2006 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions

All about timing

I don't even think this is about next year --- Corey Hart could be better than Mench or Nix as soon as next year (well, possibly). I think this is about this year, where a team that loses 2 out of 3 to the Pirates is suddenly going to win every series, even though we have more road games from here on out than home games. It's asinine.

"C'mon, boys, let's get 'em some RUNS!" --- Daron Sutton, pretty much every game of the 2005 season.

by roguejim on Jul 28, 2006 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions

Uggghhhh

Prove me wrong, Brewers. Prove me wrong.

Nate

by nmc on Jul 28, 2006 10:41 AM CDT reply actions

when do they arrive?

Does this mean us Reds fans don't have to worry about seeing Lee this evening? Couldn't you have gotten rid of Bill Hall and Damien Miller for tonight? They always seem to do a lot of damage. ;)

Really, though, you have to believe there is another trade in the works. I guess you have improved your pen somewhat, but what's going to happen with Mr. Never Surrender if you have all of those outfielders?

Hey, you wouldn't happen to want Gary Majewski, would you?

Come worship at the Church of Baseball with Sister Daedalus!

by Daedalus on Jul 28, 2006 10:47 AM CDT reply actions

Given the going rate on Gary Majewskis

we'll pass! :)

Carlos won't be playing tonight...I would imagine we don't get the Rangers guys until at least tomorrow. I believe technically, players have 48 or 72 hours to report to their new teams.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 28, 2006 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions

Good question

I assume the "pending injury clearance" is to make sure El Caballo's hoof is OK. But if this is true, there's no way he plays tonight.

Hall is now the team home run leader. I think he plays. :)

As for another trade in the works? God I hope so.

I'm sorry about the Majewski/Kearns trade. We'd gladly give you Jenkins for him. :)

"C'mon, boys, let's get 'em some RUNS!" --- Daron Sutton, pretty much every game of the 2005 season.

by roguejim on Jul 28, 2006 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions

can jenkins pitch? ;)

Come worship at the Church of Baseball with Sister Daedalus!

by Daedalus on Jul 28, 2006 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions

Yes. Yes he can.

"C'mon, boys, let's get 'em some RUNS!" --- Daron Sutton, pretty much every game of the 2005 season.

by roguejim on Jul 28, 2006 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions

And he looks like Brett Favre!

"C'mon, boys, let's get 'em some RUNS!" --- Daron Sutton, pretty much every game of the 2005 season.

by roguejim on Jul 28, 2006 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions

Ha!

Zambrano's SLG is .435 & he has 4 homers in 46 ABs. Jenkins' SLG is .406 & he has 9 homers in 360 ABs.

by battlekow on Jul 28, 2006 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions

Arroyo, then.

Against righties, anyway.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 28, 2006 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions

Ranger fan here...

Congrats on the trade. Hopefully this will be a good move for both teams.

I've got a question... Does this mean that Cordero is going to be your new closer? I need to know so I can pick him up for my fantasy team if this is the case. Ive only got 2 moves left in my Yahoo! league and need to spend them wisely!

Thanks guys and good luck!

by PUNCHbrad on Jul 28, 2006 10:57 AM CDT reply actions

I would imagine he'll get a shot

Turnbow is out...Kolb is mediocre...the game is up for grabs and I have to imagine that's part of the reason this deal worked out the way it did.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 28, 2006 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions

Closer

Yeah, he'll more than likely be given the opportunity to close, and given how good Sheets and Ohka look, probably have a pretty fair share of opportunities.

by thekranz on Jul 28, 2006 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions

yount involved

rumour is yount set up the trade to prevent Lee from breaking his consecutive games as a Brewer record.

Since the Brewers acquired him from the White Sox at the 2004 Winter Meetings, Lee has played in 264 straight games, 10 shy of Robin Yount's Brewers record.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 28, 2006 11:06 AM CDT reply actions

Yount must have also...

arrange to get no one who would stay on the Brewers for too long. Trade for a potential future star, and he puts that record at risk!

(By the way, my computer remembers that I typed "Yount dropped acid" in the "Subject" box at some point. Interesting.)

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 28, 2006 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions

Boil it down

Nix sucks. The other Cordero probably sucks. Nelson Cruz = Kevin Mench. So it's Carlos Lee for Francisco Cordero? Ouch.

by battlekow on Jul 28, 2006 11:11 AM CDT reply actions

actually...

I see it as, say, 1.3 years of Mench (plus trade swag before his last year of arby) for .3 years of Lee. Then Coco for Cruz, which is a stupid last-ditch move to salvage the bullpen and make a run.

That's a little more generous than your take...but still it hurts.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 28, 2006 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions

But

They could have had more than 1.3 years out of Nelson Cruz, and for cheaper. I wouldn't even bet on Mench being better than Cruz.

by battlekow on Jul 28, 2006 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions

Maybe...

Mench will like NL pitching.

I could keep debating this, but I'm really just trying to salvage something out of this. My heart is most definitely not in it.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 28, 2006 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions

Brady Clark?

I remember the White Sox expressing some interest in Clark a few weeks back. Although they said they're done with deadline deals, I wonder if that's true.

Pretending there are no more moves to be made, who stays on the big club? I assume Nix, Mench, and Cordero the Elder remain, and Gwynn goes back down.

"C'mon, boys, let's get 'em some RUNS!" --- Daron Sutton, pretty much every game of the 2005 season.

by roguejim on Jul 28, 2006 11:27 AM CDT reply actions

Well...

We now have FOUR centerfielders, so who the hell knows?

by battlekow on Jul 28, 2006 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions

Maybe it's miscommunication

Does Melvin not know there are other positions in baseball than outfield? Maybe if someone told him quick, there'd be time to salvage this.

"C'mon, boys, let's get 'em some RUNS!" --- Daron Sutton, pretty much every game of the 2005 season.

by roguejim on Jul 28, 2006 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions

I'll mention that to Dave Lawson

maybe he'll put a subtle reminder in his next report.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 28, 2006 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions

A look at the upside of the deal.

Ok, I am going to try to look at the deal's upside to provide a little fodder for further posts...

I think Mench is a better prospect than Cruz; Nelson's strikeout rate in AAA is frightening when you project him to the MLB level. Mench is also more proven at the MLB level. He's not as cheap as I thought he was when I heard about the deal, but shoudl provide 20-25 HRs, 80 rbis and a plus glove in left. I do wonder how much his power numbers were helped by Ameriqwest -- he's slugging just .423 on the road. Still, I wish we were trading Carlos for, say, Jeff Mathis and starting Hart in LF.

Cordero had a spectacular year in 2004 and a solid year in 2005 and should be helped by a move to the NL. He's definitely better than Kolb and maybe Turnbow, too. Perhaps he, too, will be flipped before the 31st?

Also, there have been a lot of trade rumors about Mench, including the Twins...so maybe Melvin will flip him for some pitching after all.

It's weird that we weren't more involved in trade rumors for Dioner Navarro. Maybe the Dodgers wanted a catcher in return, but we could have given them Lee and our Hendrickson for say, Navarro, Andre Ethier and a A-ball pitching prospect. That would have been a good trade for both clubs.

Let's hope more moves are in the works!!

Whatever happened to Ramser Correa???!

by TrueBlueBrewCrew on Jul 28, 2006 12:21 PM CDT reply actions

Moving cordero

not a bad idea...I wonder what Doug will do the morning of the 31st if we lose 2 of 3 to the Reds? Mench could be moved as well--he's regularly been part of rumors at the deadline and during the offseason for a couple of years now.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 28, 2006 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions

Easy

I wonder what Doug will do the morning of the 31st if we lose 2 of 3 to the Reds?

Trade Corey Hart for Rondell White.

"C'mon, boys, let's get 'em some RUNS!" --- Daron Sutton, pretty much every game of the 2005 season.

by roguejim on Jul 28, 2006 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions

Careful

or I'll give Lance Bass your number.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 28, 2006 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions

Can't you see it?

Rondell White was an all-star in 1977, and he could really provide some veteran leadership to our young, talented team. We always liked Corey Hart, put I would sooner put my moustache in centerfield than give him any meaningful playing time, so he had to go. I hope he doesn't become a hall of famer...at least, I hope he doesn't get inducted into the Hall the same year as Nelson Cruz.

"C'mon, boys, let's get 'em some RUNS!" --- Daron Sutton, pretty much every game of the 2005 season.

by roguejim on Jul 28, 2006 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions

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