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2007 Post Mortem: Johnny Estrada

A few weeks ago, I think it was the Sporting News that had a quote from a scout saying that Estrada keeps getting fatter and slower.

Man, am I glad he's on our team.

TheJay has done a nice job chronicling the oddity that is our starting catcher: he has a historically high batting average for a guy who doesn't get on base 30% of the time, and he seems to be under the mistaken impression that you only get one strike.

Doug Melvin has made a couple comments lately that he recognizes catcher is an area for improvement, which is fortunate for us. It may not be for the right reasons: If Estrada had hit 300/315/415, he'd still suck, but he'd be a 300 hitter!!! and that would be good enough to make up for the fact that he hasn't thrown out a runner since the Carter administration.

In fairness to Johnny, he has never been very good at the things he wasn't good at in 2007. OBP? Career .320. Throwing out runners? Umm, yeah. Working the count? You must be thinking of Erik Estrada.

But, he was worse at all of these things in a Brewers uniform. He was 25th among catchers in all of baseball in VORP, right behind John Buck and just ahead of Kurt Suzuki. Suzuki had half as many at-bats, and Buck can field the position.

The typical objection to the "our catcher can't hit" criticism is that, well no catcher can hit. And this side of the Metrodome, that's pretty much true. But most catchers can throw, and a good fielding backstop can more than make up for his lack of batsmanship by throwing out runners.

For instance, if Damian Miller had gotten as many ABs as Estrada, he would've been worth about seven fewer runs with the bat. But, of course, there's a trade-off. Each caught stealing is worth about a half a run, so if Damian had thrown out 14 or 15 more runners than Estrada did--not a tall order, given what we're starting with--we're even.

But that leaves another question. Damian's old, and probably couldn't have played 120 games. Is there anybody out there who could've given us slightly above replacement production behind the plate? I don't know. Judging from his batting in Triple-A, Mike Rivera couldn't have. Maybe there was a waiver claim out there, but I don't know who it is. Catching is hard, and catchers who can do the job for most of a season are very rare.

Setting aside what has happened, let look at what will happen. Here are my projections for Estrada--again, the "Perc" column is percentile, so the middle, "50" row is the median projection:

Perc       AB      R     H     2B    3B  HR    RBI   BB     K    AVG     OBP     SLG
20      173     12    44    7     0   3     15    7      20   0.254   0.294   0.347
50      376     33    103   21    0   7     42    16     43   0.274   0.308   0.386
80      409     40    117   25    0   8     52    19     47   0.286   0.324   0.406

Well, at least that OBP is likely to get back over .300. For those of you who are interested, my projection system starts drastically cutting playing time for guys who are well below replacement level at their position...that's why the 20th percentile projection gives him so few at-bats. Basically, if that's all the better he plays, the Brewers will be forced to find a stopgap.

But this is not pretty. You're basically looking at backup-catcher numbers in a guy who can't field like a backup catcher.

Here is a list of potential free agents this offseason. There's the good--Posada, maybe Ramon Castro--the bad--Jose Molina, Lo Duca, Torrealba, Ausmus--and the Cubs--Barrett and Kendall. I think it's unlikely Posada won't be in pinstripes next year, but I'd be very, very tempted to see if I could coax him to Milwaukee on a $20MM/2 year contract, or something like that. It's a lot of money, but it might be the only offensive position where we could make an acquisition and see an immediate, big improvement.

(Then again, Posada is old. My projection system doesn't like old catchers, and gives him a median line of 259/345/406. It would be better in the NL, but not by a lot.)

Otherwise, I think I'd like to part ways with Estrada, save the four million bucks or so we'd pay him in arbitration, and pick up a top-tier backup to split time with Damian. If we're going to have an easy-out number seven hitter every day, might as well get good defense out of the guy. Here are my projections for some of the free agents:

  • Jose Molina: 236/274/315
  • Torrealba: 255/311/395
  • Castro: 240/310/392
The last two would obviously be improvements on Johnny (since they can field), and it's possible that Molina's glove would be good up to make up the difference, too. Certainly we could save a couple of million bucks if we went with him.

Most likely, though, if the Brewers are going to improve at catcher, it'll take a trade. The cupboard is bare: Posada will probably go back to the Yankees, Castro will return to the Mets, somebody will overpay for Lo Duca, and that'll mean even a guy like Torrealba will get too much money from somebody desperate.

Good luck, Doug. You'll need it.

0 recs | Comment 17 comments

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Catchers
I agree with your comment that if our catcher isn't that great of a hitter, at least he better play some defense.  Seems like we're all wistfully looking at the days of Mike Matheny and Henry Blanco.  

Consider the following

Season-Player-OPS
2006 Miller .712
2005 Miller .753
2004 Moeller .568
2003 Perez .724
2002 Bako .624
2001 Blanco .634
2000 Blanco .712
1999 Nilsson .954
1998 Matheny .612
1997 Matheny .632
1996 Matheny .585

Estrada's .699 OPS this season is about right in the middle of the production the Brewers have gotten the last 10 years.  And other than Nilsson, and Miller to some extent, that whole list is comprised of good field/poor hitting catchers.

by Infield Fly Rule on Oct 10, 2007 2:20 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A better Estrada
In 2007, it appeared that Estrada was taking a beating from foul balls whenever he was catching. I think this could account for some of his hitting problems. Being sore and stiff doesn't help your swing - or your running.

The question would remain - was 2007 just a bad year or has he always been prone to such a beating? If this is common, then it will just get worse; if not, 2008 will be a better year - maybe he will exceed his lifetime stats.

If we want an offensive catcher - and I do - I say keep Estrada. But don't forget a back=up. Miller still has a couple more back-up seasons in him. Let's get him resigned.

by richars freimark on Oct 10, 2007 2:51 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

AAA Options
The following are catchers with an OPS over .700 in AAA last season, there are a couple of guys that I'd take off this list.

Player-Team-BA-OBP-SLG-Age
Jose Morales, MIN .311, .366, .399, 24
JR House, BAL .298, .365, .463, 28
Jason Jaramillo, PHI .271, .350, .361, 25 (and he's from Racine)
Geovanny Sota, CHC .343, .424, .652, 24
Vinny Rottino, MIL .289, .363, .446, 27
Jeff Clement, SEA .275, .370, .497, 24
Jeremy Brown, OAK .276, .364, .469, 28
JD Closser, OAK .231, .343, .413, 27
Rob Johnson, SEA .268, .331, .372, 24

The first three played in the International League, the rest in the PCL.

by Infield Fly Rule on Oct 10, 2007 3:36 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

fwiw
translating AAA to MLB, roughly, is multiplying OPS by .85. So somebody right at a .700 OPS, like Rivera, would be most likely to have a MLB OPS of .600.
Weird, but not weird.

by Jeff Sackmann on Oct 10, 2007 3:42 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't know about Johnson's arm
He wasn't very impressive in Buffalo, among other places.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Oct 10, 2007 3:42 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think
Posada will get a far sweeter deal than 2 seasons at 20mill.  The dude can carry a .400 obp, which does make up for his Estrada-esque arm.

by Braunstalker on Oct 10, 2007 3:50 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you're probably right
There's always a team or two out there willing to spend someone who is obviously old and on the decline. 36 is ancient for a catcher, and while the obp will likely stick around for a while, everything else is going to start to go, fast.
Weird, but not weird.

by Jeff Sackmann on Oct 10, 2007 3:55 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Barrett
Do we think Barrett is coming off the kind of season where he might sign a one-year deal, or a very cheap two-year deal?  I mean, I'd give him up to what he made this year ($4.6mm) on a one-year deal to see if he can get to an OPS > .800 over 120 games.  I mean, Estrada would probably get close to $4mm in arbitration anyway, and he has a far less chance of being near .800 OPS than Barrett does.  To me, this is a move the Crew should definitely consider.  Maybe Barrett still has a home in the northern suburbs, and wouldn't mind the should, stressless drive through Racine and Kenosha.  I think this sounds real good, in fact.

I'd love to see Posada in Milwaukee, and have a hunch that he would beat Jeff's median line next year, but there's no way he'd sign a 2-year, $20mm deal.  He's going to get more (more years, more money, or both) than that from someone, probably the Yankees.  

"Cover your flesh." - Bill Haverchuck

by baumann on Oct 10, 2007 3:59 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Barrett - No Thank You
Barrett
SB/CS - 14/72
PB - 12
ER - 6
OPS .653

Estrada
SB/CS - 11/72
PB - 5
ER - 6
OPS - .699

I am not keen on Estrada's "defense" and if anything Barrett's worse.  Now if you are talking about signing him so he can beat up Carlos Zambrano when the Cubs come to town you may have something.

by Infield Fly Rule on Oct 10, 2007 4:23 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Am I crazy?
...but would John Buck be an OK addition?  I hadn't heard of the guy before he flew to Milwaukee very early for a Bob Uecker fishing thing.

Career: .237 / .297 / .408

Hit 18hrs last season in 113 (most at Kaufmann Field) and can supposedly field (per Jeff).  He turned 27 this season.

I guess since one of his comps is Yorvit, I'm obviously crazy.

by nmc on Oct 10, 2007 4:29 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sure.
But he's not a FA and not likely to be on the trading block.  
"Cover your flesh." - Bill Haverchuck

by baumann on Oct 10, 2007 4:33 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wheel and Deal
I know, maybe Melvin can spin some fool's gold for him.  Hey, maybe the team can get De La Rosa back.

(hope not)

by nmc on Oct 10, 2007 8:42 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What about Palmisano?
What about Lou Palmisano?  I haven't seen him play enough to know how good he'd be, but for those who have:  would he have the potential of splitting time at catcher in the majors next year?

by dthrog on Oct 10, 2007 8:15 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Carter Administration
I'm too young to have scouted them personally, but I've heard that they weren't too good defensively either.

One thing that I didn't see in your analysis Jeff, is whinyness.  We all know that catchers (and umps) get hit by foulballs all the time.  We all can imagine that it is quite painfull.  Most catchers, however are able to shake most of these shots off quite quickly and without too much in the way of dramatics.  Our own Estrada, on the other hand, grovelled in the dirt and/or had the trainers coming out just about every time he got dinged- at least it sure seemed that way.

Maybe someone smart can come up with a catcher toughness index and we should start our search there?

by sheeter on Oct 10, 2007 10:01 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hahaha
I think we've already got a pretty tough catcher in Damian.

If Damian starts bitching and moaning, Ned himself will suit up!  No whining then!

I'll bet Rottino doesn't do much whining.  Any time he starts complaining, somebody says, "Dude, you weren't even drafted.  We signed you as a FAVOR.  Man up!"

Weird, but not weird.

by Jeff Sackmann on Oct 10, 2007 10:08 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and then
Johnny says, "I know what will cheer you up man!  Lets go shopping for sundresses!."

by sheeter on Oct 10, 2007 10:13 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Let's keep Mench as C
Think of how much break he'd add to pitches because of his head's gravitational pull!!!

by stevie ray Braun on Oct 11, 2007 12:22 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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