Triumph!

by Jeff Sackmann on Dec 7, 2007 1:43 PM CST in Transactions

The Brewers have reportedly picked up Salomon Torres from the Brewers for right-handers Marino Salas and Kevin Roberts.

This is almost too good to be true. Rotoworld cites the Journal-Sentinel, but I can't find the relevant mention on the J-S site, so maybe Tom H. posted it and pulled it back. The Rats were asking a lot for Torres last season, but there's a new front office, so maybe they now recognize that solid veteran relievers aren't going to help them build for the future.

(Then again, Marino Salas and Kevin Roberts probably won't, either.)

If true, this is increasingly looking like Melvin is building a bullpen for a closer-by-committee. Turnbow, Riske, Torres, plus the wildcards of Mota and Wise, are all guys who have closed with varying degrees of success in the past, or have pitched well enough to do so. Add in Shouse, Villanueva, and Parra, and you have eight guys who are (or have been in the recent past) credible 7th/8th inning guys. In that case, it would seem like a waste to spend big to bring in a Gagne type, who is not at all guaranteed to be better than all of these guys.

I think I might have to go with Roguejim here and get on the Guardado bandwagon. Let's bring in the cheapest possible "closer", a la Joe Borowski, to make Ned feel better, and keep stacking the bullpen with guys who will pitch just as well, or better.

I am psyched.

Update [2007-12-7 14:58:15 by Jeff]: Here's the J-S link. This looks pretty solid. Finally, something to get us excited about 2008!

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Comments

Excellent

I'm trying to curb my enthusiam about this given Torres' numbers last year, but I can't help but be pleased. This is exactly the type of move I expect from DM, and why he is an excellent GM for our market.

by cappad0nna on Dec 7, 2007 2:13 PM CST 0 recs

What a steal!

Just as I was beginning to lose faith in Doug as well. The market for Torres must have bottomed out after his year last year but that looks to be the outlier not the trend for him.

Visit my baseball blog ...or else!

by dixieflatline on Dec 7, 2007 2:19 PM CST 0 recs

cha-ching!

As long as the Pirates are giving guys away, perhaps we should be asking about Jason Bay as well.

by sheeter on Dec 7, 2007 2:37 PM CST 0 recs

Or Damaso Marte

You can never have enough quality lefty relievers, right?

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Dec 7, 2007 8:34 PM CST up 0 recs

ya baby!

Jamie is a Softball Champion!

by Jamie in LA on Dec 7, 2007 2:42 PM CST 0 recs

price tag

From MLB.com

"Torres is signed through 2008 under a two-year, $6.5 million contract that pays $3.2 million this season and has a $3.75 club option for 2009."

by 80badger on Dec 7, 2007 2:50 PM CST 0 recs

Nice move

I liked roberts, but Torres is a better possesion. Great move by Melvin. As Marty would say, this move gets 3 Melvins.

Ryan Braun is the Ed Hochuli of Third Basemen. Prince is now Chubber Lang

by hyattff2003 on Dec 7, 2007 3:02 PM CST 0 recs

I Like It!

From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette 12-5-07:

"I've been there every day for the past two or three weeks, and I'm getting ready to throw sidelines early next week with the bullpen catcher," Torres said by phone from his North Hills home. "If the Pirates are talking about last year, they're right. I didn't do my best, and I got hurt playing catchup. That's not true now."

Torres said he has lost 8-10 pounds since the season ended, becoming stronger in the process.

"I'm going to have a great year, and I'm getting ready for it."

Link

Watching Yovani pitch probably compares to driving a Lamborghini Gallardo.

by TAPmoney on Dec 7, 2007 3:16 PM CST 0 recs

Sweet move!

C'mon Spring training!

by Braunstalker on Dec 7, 2007 3:24 PM CST 0 recs

love it

the best part is, if you stack a bullpen full of 8th inning guys. Yost cannot mess it up.

Riske, Torres, Turnbow, even Mota & Wise all seem like the same guy to me.

If you go without a closer, and Melvin started this a long time ago, you downgrade your 9th inning guy to an 8th inning guy and you can afford to upgrade the 6th and 7th inning guys to 8th inning guys. occasionally you hit a jackpot like bringing in an ace reliever like cordero for junk like nelson cruz and two months of carlos lee.

huzzah.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Dec 7, 2007 4:07 PM CST 0 recs

if

if we sign someone like Guardado to fill out the 'pen, does this mean a starter is expendable in a more significant trade? like sheets going to the dodgers or mariners?

"Cover your flesh." - Bill Haverchuck

by baumann on Dec 7, 2007 4:33 PM CST 0 recs

I would think

a starter is more expendable already. We've got a LOT of pitchers, and even taking into account regular injury insurance, we aren't going to keep all of them.

I'm just afraid that Doug is going to look at the surplus and decide that Carlos V or Parra are expendable, which would make me sad.

Weird, but not weird.

by Jeff Sackmann on Dec 7, 2007 4:43 PM CST up 0 recs

pitching

seeing carlos v or parra go would make everyone sad. we'd have to be getting something pretty good in return for me to be satisfied with that.

as for sheets, I understand all the reasons to trade him, but am I alone in not wanting to see him go out of blind faith that he somehow puts together a complete season and doesn't bolt in the off season? i'm already going to have to deal without having geoff, i can't handle losing sheets too. that's like having your dog get hit by a car the same day your girlfriend breaks up with you.

by SunglassesAtNight on Dec 7, 2007 5:21 PM CST up 0 recs

sheeter

i could see bennie putting up huge numbers...after all its his contract year. as for him not bolting...don't hold your breath

by marty22 on Dec 7, 2007 6:00 PM CST up 0 recs

Crazy thought

I know roguejim's mentioned something like this before, but if Sheets and Hall are traded this offseason the longest-tenured Brewer would be Rickie Weeks by virtue of his cup of coffee in 2003.

The starting lineup for his second career start was pretty random. It was the last game of the season, but still:

Scott Podsednik, CF
Jason Conti, RF
Pete Zoccolillo, LF
Richie Sexson, 1B
Wes Helms, 3B
Keith Osik, C
Rickie Weeks, 2B
Enrique Cruz, SS
Luis Martinez, P

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Dec 7, 2007 9:06 PM CST up 0 recs

we've come a long way

zoccolilo somehow had 2 rbis to boot. amazing we even scored 5 runs that game

"If there is a more reactionary blog with idiotic commentary out there I'd be surprised." -On Bleed Cubbie Blue

by Michael M on Dec 7, 2007 10:42 PM CST up 0 recs

Was Torres on anyone's radar?

I know he was no where on mine. Nothing like ending a disappointing week of winter meetings with a little Ka Bang!!! Thank You 'stache for working your magic.

by MadJimiBrewha on Dec 7, 2007 5:26 PM CST 0 recs

Side note...

Isn't our 40 man roster full, and neither of the guys traded were on it?...so who's getting demoted or should we expect a trade on the horizon? Possibly a SP and someone else for that LFer we've been looking for, thus clearing a spot for Torres and polishing off that starting line-up.

by MadJimiBrewha on Dec 7, 2007 5:43 PM CST 0 recs

Well

If they can wait a couple days they can non-tender Mench off the roster.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Dec 7, 2007 6:34 PM CST up 0 recs

I didn't see this anywhere,

but you have to assume this is contingent on a physical, which (given the fact that it's Friday) should buy them until the 10th at the least. But that's still two days away from a non-tender for Mench...

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2007 6:50 PM CST up 0 recs

Torres

His elbow flared up a couple times last year and he's getting up there in baseball age, but I think it's a good addition considering the guys traded weren't big prospects. Who would've thought everyone would be so excited about trading for an aging, right-handed reliever? :)

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Dec 7, 2007 6:38 PM CST 0 recs

Clearly the Pirates are convinced that

Torres is close to finished, or that his sore elbow is about to go Tommy John, or something. It's a bit of a head scratcher from their perspective. Roberts is at least a year away, and more likely two (unless he's rushed) before he can help their pen and Salas looks like he might be a AAAA guy or perhaps a mediocre at best MLB level arm.

Time will tell, but it sure looks like it could turn out to be an excellent low-market-point buy from Melvin. Plus, if he breaks down, his salary doesn't kill you.

Wow.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 7, 2007 6:48 PM CST 0 recs

A bit of a head scratcher, but...

It is nearly $4MM in commitment, and for no good reason -- Torres would be the difference between 72 and 74 wins next year, or something.

Also, Torres has had his issues with the front office over the last year or so. They have decided enough was enough.

Weird, but not weird.

by Jeff Sackmann on Dec 7, 2007 7:19 PM CST up 0 recs

issues with the front office

didn't he sue the Pirates or something?

by keephopealive on Dec 7, 2007 8:45 PM CST up 0 recs

I don't know

Sure, it's kind of a headscratcher, but Torres is older, was worked really hard for three years prior to last year and his elbow starting acting up. There's not a lot there to say he will be good again, so it may also be a case of the Pirates medical staff figuring his elbow won't stand up for the whole season. Of course, it's not like their medical staff is trustworthy.

Like I said above, it's a good trade because not much of value was given up for him, but I'm leery of counting on Torres for very much. I hope I'm wrong, but I've got a bad feeling about that arm. Like Ted alluded to, it's good he's a one-year gamble.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Dec 7, 2007 9:50 PM CST up 0 recs

Wow

This is the year we won't be seeing much of Chris Spurling, Elmer Dessens, Chris Demaria, or our holy lord, golden boy, and one and only savior, the GREAT...

(drum roll, please)

Joe Winkelsas!

I'll warm up with you anytime

by ufoboy90 on Dec 7, 2007 8:30 PM CST 0 recs

Oh...

I thought you meant Chris Mabeus.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Dec 7, 2007 8:34 PM CST up 0 recs

great signing but slow down

Torres was a steal, but in terms of the pen, we lost Coco and Linebrink, and added Riske and Torres. I think Riske more than replaces Linebrink, but Torres is no where comparable to Coco. Plus, we're moving Villy out of the pen.

I guess we're banking on McClung improving markedly, Wise and Turnbow regaining composure and bouncing back, and one of our extra starters (Vargas, Bush or Parra) being as reliable as Villy was. There's reason for hope, but we're asking a lot.

by keephopealive on Dec 7, 2007 8:51 PM CST up 0 recs

I don't think we're done

with the pen, but don't forget Mota.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Dec 8, 2007 8:06 AM CST up 0 recs

Good deal

The team might as well stock the bullpen with guys you have had success relieving, rather than risking on the 6-yr minor league free agents of the world. You never know, anyone in the pen is a risk, I hope Mota and Torres regress to their norms and Riske has another season like last.

This is the usual "buy-low" stuff that Melvin has done in the past, so this is the most excited I've been about a bullpen in a while. Now to spin a starter or two (not including Vinny or Parra).

by nmc on Dec 7, 2007 8:48 PM CST 0 recs

LF

Now that Melvin has quite a few arms for the pen, they can "turn their attention to Left field." As I've stated before, I think Braunie will undergo a Weeks-type improvement next year. I also think Weeks & Fielder will improve, although perhaps not as much improvement as last year. Those things in mind, the infield D should be quite a bit better. In the outfield, DM has said they want someone with a high OBP that can run. Now, why not have our 3 outfielders outside of Hart & Hall be Gwynn, Dillon, and Gross? At least part of Blockhead's problem was not being able to get in a groove. If they were to split up the ABs Jenkies & Mench had, as well as spelling Hall or Hart from time to time, they are all athletic enough that they should be able to handle the irregular playing time. Dillon came up with big hit after big hit(high OBP), Gwynn had some big hits and has speed, despite his overall modest numbers, and Gross, who's got a cannon of an arm and some pop to boot... Seems to me Melvin already has his preference in-house. What do you fellas think? Am I that far "off my rocker?"

by kgaul on Dec 7, 2007 10:16 PM CST 0 recs

Good deal

Good for Doug, too.

These two weren't on the 40-man roster, right? I assume, then, that the Rats could have had them for $100,000, if they wanted to keep them on the major league roster. Maybe that's a big "if," though it shouldn't be if you're the Pirates. Still, just have Jason Bay break their toes, and put them on the DL. Problem solved. :)
If the Rats knew what they were doing, they really would have traded Torres two years ago.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Dec 7, 2007 10:26 PM CST 0 recs

1.

you mean via rule 5?

I don't think either one has enough service time. You're only eligible to be selected in Rule 5 if you're not on the 40 AND you've been playing professionally for some number of years, which I forget. Roberts definitely wouldn't have been available.

Weird, but not weird.

by Jeff Sackmann on Dec 7, 2007 10:44 PM CST up 0 recs

eh

it's aight.

YoGanna win with Gallardo on the mound.

by Griswald on Dec 7, 2007 10:58 PM CST 0 recs

he might retire???

(hope everyone in wisconsin is fast asleep by now)
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=694529

Jamie is a Softball Champion!

by Jamie in LA on Dec 8, 2007 2:41 AM CST 0 recs

oh my god

yeah, this sounds like a guy i want on my team.

YoGanna win with Gallardo on the mound.

by Griswald on Dec 8, 2007 8:40 AM CST up 0 recs

He's Latin, dontchaknow.

and that's all I'm gonna say.

Bob Gibson threw 9 pitches: "two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a change-up, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman."

by tvnick5 on Dec 8, 2007 9:21 AM CST up 0 recs

ok...

i have to feel for someone who cares about his family like that. i mean, imagine if we could be traded in our jobs...although i don't make 3.2 million dollars lol.
very interesting situation, i hope his family gives him the ok

"If there is a more reactionary blog with idiotic commentary out there I'd be surprised." -On Bleed Cubbie Blue

by Michael M on Dec 8, 2007 8:58 AM CST up 0 recs

Hopefully not

But it's not hard to see where he'd be coming from. Obviously he likes Pittsburgh or he wouldn't have signed the below-market deal last year. The Pirates gave him the second part of his career and he's been there for six seasons, so I'm sure he feels connected to the city. I'm sure it'd be rough to feel like you've been tossed aside by the employer you've shown dedication to, especially when you feel like they might actually be moving forward with a new management team. I doubt he'll actually retire, but if he doesn't really want to play it's better he doesn't than give only part of himself.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Dec 8, 2007 11:14 AM CST up 0 recs

good pick up!

Everyone wanted a big name closer, but Melvin has gone out and made what looked like a weakness on our team, a possible strong-point. Salas and Roberts are very good young pitchers, but so are 3/4 of the "top" prospects that never make the majors. This pick up gives us another power arm in the pen, and if Torres can bounce back, we'll be sitting pretty.

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You'll never miss any news on the brewers!

by jimmyb1799 on Dec 8, 2007 11:28 AM CST 0 recs

Speaking of Gagne...

Apparently he's about to sign? I really don't see the need....

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-gagnebrewers120807&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

by ravmike on Dec 8, 2007 1:35 PM CST 0 recs

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